The Bitcoin Group #353 - Bitcoin $30K - Dark Marke

The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, DJ Christian Rootsle from Raspberry Blitz. I know. Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page. Hi there folks. Daniel M from Noadstrich. Happy Friday everyone. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one Bitcoin $30,000.

Some say that Bitcoin $30,000 is still out of grasp, but getting there looks likely. Bitcoin is struggling at the barrier with many spinning top candles, suggesting that bowls are looking for new clues. As usual, the chart masters have told us that the price could go two ways. It could go up, or it could go down. Christian Rootsle, what do you think about the price of Bitcoin?

I always remember like that was the all time high some years ago. So we're kind of steady there. I think it's a good price level. So and the market's do what's the market's do. I'm not a good market expert after saying. That means it's going up. Victoria Jones, the price. Yeah, well, it's interesting. You know, all there's all those do mongers who are predicting 10k seem

to have been completely blindsided by, you know, the latest pump first, first of the year. I have to say it has been pretty spectacular. It's almost as though the price going down, you know, there was there was a load of fear about the future of crypto at the end of last year. And now all the fear is about the stable coins. I mean, I think especially

with USDC losing its peg. I think anyone who owns USDC the moment it was level again. It's like, I'm getting out of here. You know, because the thing is while it still works, it seems like a great way to gamble until it isn't. I mean, last time I was on we were talking about, you know, the exchanges and how, you know, there are a great way

to gamble until they're not. And I think stable coins is the same kind of thing really. I mean, the whole reason why Bitcoin was invented was to give us away out of the dollar. And so, you know, to have crypto currencies that match that and to want to be to store your wealth in that. You know what, I mean, it's logical. People want to make the

most of the fact that Bitcoin is going to have a downtrend. But I think the moment they saw that, I think that was a real fear signal. So, and also, I think this stage psychologically is always a little bit tricky. I mean, I remember in 2019, you know, the price had gone down quite fine. It was like, oh, if it goes any longer, I'm going to

be in trouble. And so the moment it popped again, I sold some thinking I can't afford for it to go down and, you know, sigh relief that had gone up. And then, you know, you get some and then, you know, you're scared that it's going to go down any further. But the thing is, the moment I did that, the price just took off like a rocket

and it never went back down to that price again. And so, you know, you have to be really, you have to be really careful. If, you know, you've got significant savings in Bitcoin, because it's very stressful. If that's what you rely on, I think the ones who got into Bitcoin early and can just afford to spend it whenever the fortunate ones. But I think the ones

who got in the last couple of years. And this will be the case as we continue, I think in the next few years, we know that the volatility will get less. That's the way in which it's been designed. And so, although you can, you know, get some mileage out of selling at the top and buying at the bottom, if you're that way inclined. You know, those

highs and lows will reduce over time. And so, you know, in those situations, it kind of gets more and more scary to play those moves. But yeah, I see this as the same point in 2019, where I sold some and then the price took off like a rocket. I think this is what's going to happen now. that's all me freaking out because my savings is gone.

My work goes into the savings. And, you know, the whole house is on fire. So I can see a lot of people doing that right now and saying, oh, you know, 17, 20, I'm out. This is enough. And then you watch the thing will return to where it was before and maybe even higher allegedly. It is interesting to say, like you said, about the stable coins,

they always rely on a bank account never made any sense to me. It was the same old idea like coin base or alt coins or anybody else. Bitcoins is trust the system. We're going to come up and hook up our trust system to it. And you can just trust us. We'll just keep the money in a bank account. We got some big players in the game.

Tether is going to be fine. So I've never understood the stable coin thing. Because on the people who the chart people who predicted it going to 10k, they always cover themselves. So you can't say that they said 10k because they said, maybe it goes to 10k. Maybe it goes right back up. They always say both. And it's ridiculous. I don't know why people still follow them,

especially when we have the greatest predictor of Bitcoin right here. Daniel, what do you think about the price of Bitcoin? Yeah. I mean, I tried to think about it too much. I think you know, Victoria, you earned your stripes. You know, I think we've all been there, especially if you've been through one cycle, two cycles. It starts to feel familiar. I've gotten to a point where

I try to only look at the price in Sats. What's often referred to as Moscow time. So today you can get $3,585 for $1. And looking forward to buying Bitcoin at a price where I can get more Sats per dollar. But if it doesn't go that way, then that's fine too. Because it shows that the value is $3,000. So I think it's going to be a

good deal. I think that the price is going up. And I think that, you know, in the long run, we're all going to be laughing at those prices years from now. I actually went back. I'm not a chart guy. I don't make price predictions. But I do like looking at the history and just seeing kind of where things have been. Those repeating cycles that are basically

patterns that happen almost incredibly predictably. Right. So if you go back to 2017 that was December of 2017. I think when I was in Bitcoin hit that 20,000 level. And it only lasted for what less than a day. And so then we saw, you know, what happened after that. We crashed. We came all the way down to the bottom. Three years later, we hit the 20,000

level again. And it's been basically three years almost since that point. And what has has Bitcoin performed, you know, poorly. No, it's been under 20K for like maybe two months out of the last three years. So, I look at that as just a sign that, you know, we're repeating a pattern. It'll repeat again. People will always be surprised. They'll always use their emotions. They'll panic, they'll

fomo. It's just human nature. And so as someone who has been through this a couple of times, you have to just heal yourself and learn how to understand when those signals are happening. You know, I don't like to look at the price too much. But it's funny. You talk about stable coins. You know, Bitcoin's been stable. There's that joke, you know, for for quite a while.

It's 28K. And you know, there's the 58K gang and they're waiting to get back there. So I think we, you know, we'll see those days again. But are we in a huge hurry to do that? You know, it depends on your time horizon. I'm not. It's funny. People are always saying buy the tip by the dip. And it's usually I'm either all in already. Or I

bought the last dip and I bought the dip before that. And I bought the dip before that. And I'm out of dip buy and money. I don't know where these people. Maybe they're getting income and they have jobs and such. Oh, which is a lot. It's good. Everyone should keep their jobs, especially in a bear market. But yeah, where are you going to get more income

when you're more to put in when you're already all in. But now you know what's going to happen. It's your chance to predict against the greatest predictor of Bitcoin price in all of Bitcoin history. It's also bald. Christian roots will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week. Maybe we see a little bit higher. I'm optimistic. Slightly optimistic. Andy's German. So that

should kind of twice. So that's what I'm going to say is much. Victoria higher or lower next week. Can I say about the same? You can. But I'm not the stick. First of all, answers. First of all, answers. It's as good as not and not answer. Daniel, do you have an answer for us and up or down? Just based on my experience. If I say lower,

it'll probably go higher. So I'll say lower. Classic reverse psychology method here. Here we go. Will the product. Price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? Says bubbles. My sources say no. The ball is pessimistic. It sources say no. Moving on to issue two issue two operation cookie monster. That was worth it. International police action ceases dark web market. It's not your ordinary dark web

market full of drugs and raw mills. It's a very interesting dark web market where you could buy stolen documents stolen identification digital figure prints. All kinds of great stuff that side had more than 80 million credentials and digital fingerprint stolen for more than two million people that you could probably use to break into their accounts. Victoria Jones, what do you think about the close down of

the Genesis market, which was closed down by an international police. Who shut it down and say that they've reduced the ease of access to hacking. Well, you know, anyone hunting down a criminal is always is always a good thing, although then you get into the debate as to who decides who's a criminal. But I think it's it's I think it's a start actually less than in,

you know, how new software really is. I mean, because it's been around all of our lives. It's easy to. I believe that some, you know, it's this thing that's always been there. But in actual fact, if you look at, you know, the whole of history, it only really started in the 70s, you know, same ages. Be at currency really and when you put that in the

context of the whole of history. Relatively speaking, this is still a very new technology. And so it's going to take a while before all of these niches, we find effective ways of stopping it because. You know, and the other thing is it just kind of. It teaches you how you can never naively trust human beings, you know, there are always going to be the ones who

are corrupt who are who want to cheat you in some way. And so, you know, having systems that prevent that. I think just help everyone to feel safer and and more secure, which is where an objective system comes in rather than one that's. You know, based based on opinion, but you know, at the end of the day. Someone hacking your identity or hacking your accounts can

cause, you know, serious disruption in someone's lives. And I think if there are teams trying to find ways to prevent that, then that can. I prove that I like that. That's a good thing. I still think it's kind of neat that a place like this exists. It reminds me of reading like a William Gibson cipherpunk novel. And it's like they're trading digital fingerprints and IDs on

the dark web. And I hate to, you know, bum the FBI and everybody else out, but I go a little contrary on this where, you know, if you knock out one of these things and there's a great demand for these things multiple of them will reopen. And if people want to trade whatever these things are, obviously I've never been to this side. I don't know anything

about it. But if they want to trade them, they're probably going to keep trading them. So maybe they could have done one of those things like with the Silk Road where they kept it open longer and they could have caught everybody that way. But can you really catch everybody? Daniel, and what do you think about the dark net identity market being shut down? It's more like

what you call it dark net whack a mole, right? It's just, you know, you shut one down. Another one pops up. There's always going to be a market for it because there's a market for it. And if people, you know, the phrase, there's a will, there's a way, right? And you know, that's not a judgment on whether it's appropriate or not. But I do love a

good crime drama. So I'm looking forward to reading the book or seeing the movie when it comes out. And I have been a victim of the credit card thefts, some forms of identity theft, plenty of hacking attempts. I have to put two factor in everything. And I've done that for over 10 years because I knew that, you know, I was at risk of being, you know,

a victim of that sort of digital crime. So I'm always in favor of seeing those types of actors go away. But I know in, you know, reality, it's not going to happen. It's just going to be a constant game of trying to play catch up. And they're only going to get more resourceful and smarter and they'll learn from every time that one gets taken down. Another

will probably grow stronger in its place. So I don't see an end to this. I just, you know, see it as a constant struggle to try to keep those things from from lasting too long. On you got to love the name to Operation Cookie Monster. Oh, yeah. And they had to go on ruin my childhood in the process. You know, with the next one, I'm going

to be collaboration Big Bird. Bert and Ernie take down. All right. Chris. Big Bird too. Christian, what do you think about the hacking market being taken down? I mean, yeah, law enforcement is doing what law enforcement can do. I think maybe not to make in such markets too easy. I think it's always good that you'd not get too much scriptkitties just cashing in and just just

so so you keep it. At least to those people, I mean, don't know not make it to mainstream. So it's okay. Law enforcement does. What law enforcement do there. More interesting. I think it's the role of Bitcoin in that. I'm I don't know exactly that market. But I assume that they also have Bitcoin. It's often from the people kind of the accusing on Bitcoin. Oh, those

markets can just exist because Bitcoin exists or maybe other cryptocurrencies. And the, but on the other way, I think as soon as you can say, yes, Bitcoin enabled. such trades on the internet was this crazy magical digital money we have now. That on the other side, it can also maybe in a long time or the long run fix most of those kind of problems, especially of

this kind of dog market, because we're talking about credentials here. So people are very lazy with passwords or or bad at kind of securing their their digital life. So with with with and then with Bitcoin, we do this basically all the time, right. We we have a digital identity that we protect very, very well. Because there's money in there. So so I think on the one

side Bitcoin will educate more people on account to sustain league have a secure digital identity more more. So I hope our distance will and this direction will be good. And and then on the other side also we have to see what was traded on this. This this kind of market is also kind of a lot of stuff comes from the advertising. The advertisement industry browser finger

printing and all those techniques. So they are very there. Basically the masses on tracking people online and all those information was basically also for sale there. So. So also we hope to see with Bitcoin more more an internet that's not so reliant on ads because ads the ad model advertisement model all the data tracking that's really what what internet. Brad brought us so far and and

hopefully Bitcoin will make it easier that we can use services more more that are not on the free model tracking all the data. So good hopes there that Bitcoin also. Maybe be a little bit of course for for such markets right now, but in a long time also will help especially on this kind of markets. We see here was a digital identity will ease the pain

on on those. Yes, it is possible there are websites out there with millions of users information connecting all of their friends and family members together. Even their photos and videos all in one place. So they better watch out for that one too, but that was just Facebook. I think Christian. And some of the perfectly it's all bitcoins fault and they'll just keep blaming us and we'll

keep taking it. Moving on, check out world crypto network.com. We've got three thousand and forty four videos. That's more than three months, 15 days and one hour. If you watched it straight without any breaks all for free at world crypto network.com. Issue three Bitcoin stamps NFTs are gaining on ordinals. Yes, there was Bitcoin. And then there was a lot of people who were in ordinals where

they were attached to Bitcoin and then store the rest of the image in a secondary network with the segregated witness and so forth. And oh, here is right here. And now there's Bitcoin stamps Bitcoin stamps are different than ordinals. They allow you to store the actual data in the Bitcoin blockchain. However, the size of the image is limited by how much you want to pay for

the data space. Let's see we'll go down the line before we go to our new guest. Christian Routsel, what do you think about Bitcoin or actually we go to Daniel first. Daniel, what do you think about Bitcoin stamps versus ordinals? Well, as someone who has been running a node and paying attention to the memple and the fees. Watching what happened with ordinals over the past few

months, it's been really interesting because it's caused in the sudden surge in transaction fees. It makes it more expensive to perform any on chain transactions to open a channel. We stoken channels of one sat per V by now. It's suddenly 10 15 20 30 sats to get confirmed in the next couple of blocks. So not a fan of the NFT concept in general, but interested to

see where stamps is going. I only learned about it yesterday. If that will bring down the fees. If people begin moving towards that, I could see that as a potential positive. But you know, I guess, you know, what can I say other than the fact that. Bitcoin, once again has managed to usurp the use case of all the other altcoins that claim to be decentralized and

claim to provide these utilities. It's all going to come to Bitcoin in some way. You know, when we are or another. We have to learn to accept that. Whether we like it or not. That's my view. It is funny. We always used to say that. And now to see it coming true with projects like NFTs exiting to NF to Ethereum and other projects, then coming back

perhaps to Bitcoin. So Christian roots, so what do you think about Bitcoin stamps? Yeah, I mean, first of all, it's an innovation that was lying there and somebody probably had to do it. So now we seeing it. I think when I compare to audinals, audinals at least for me was really. I think more a harm moment to see, okay, this is now also possible. And there

could be even something that could be discussed. Be of use. So I'm waiting to see. I like to be a little bit. The the sats name ideas. So having some kind of. The main system for those kind of things, I think, audinals are kind of a good compromise that can be starting off maybe something. We have to see. So I'm kind more of an in YouTube

position on this whole order, what discussion that ordinates basically kind of where we're starting there and the stamp thing. I think yes, it brings the promise of having the most permanent storage. It's a pitch. I'm I don't think that the that the interest we see right now. It's all spent by this this pitch. I think it's just because it's new. It's hype and people just want

to have the first kind of stuff minted there because the first stuff is normally the most kind of best values, or you can be part of the high very early. So I think this is mostly that what we see, the people that were a little bit late on audinals now, I can they have more focus now on the on the stamp things. That's why where the

usage comes there. But now people would try out. What it what it will bring. And we have to see if the if the sales pitch. Off the most permanent thing is really that that important. Firstly, I don't think so, but I think ordinates is a good, good enough compromise. If you want to store the information decentralized. So I don't think the there's the big need there,

but maybe I'll be surprised. I don't know. We have to see. See, when I saw Bitcoin ordinals, I felt a lot like that meme of a grandpa Simpson, where he's old man yells at cloud and Luke Jr. in the same way where he's like, it doesn't break the rules. But it bends them. And then it stores the data on some secondary chain. And I thought, you

know, in a mean way, someone's going to figure out how to cut that out. They're going to bring in some kind of update, some kind of side thing. And they'll figure out how to disconnect that. And then the ordinal people were like, that'd be great. That would just make our stuff more popular. And like, I can't win with this. But it was interesting to see these

projects come back and attached to Bitcoin. And I was especially interested in this one because of the different way that it stores itself in the blockchain. And of course, full disclosure. I do know Mike in space. And I was on his show once. I think Jimmy Song and I were on like a parody of the office or something. So people can go back and find that.

It'll be fine. I think it might have been mad. Bitcoin. I don't know if it was me, but Victoria Jones, what do you think about the new Bitcoin stamps? I don't know. NFTs on Bitcoin. I just don't get it. I mean, really, when you consider that probably the direst problem affecting humanity right now is the deterioration of money. And we've got this amazing solution. And someone

wants to contaminate it with an NFT. I mean, seriously, you know, I mean, I understand that it's a great techie project. And you know, Kudos to people who want to figure it out. But in the grand scheme of things, guys, we got way bigger things to do with on our hands. So, yeah, I mean, I understand why people are interested in it. But for myself personally,

I couldn't care less really. I'm just like, yeah, okay. I'm whatever we get on with changing the world with a new financial system. Please. That's my focus. We all know that the direst project affecting humans is the collecting of baseball cards. That's that's why I tried to solve it with Curio cards in 2017. We all know Curio cards on Ethereum are the world's best NFTs. But

we're also joined by R1, one of the developers on Bitcoin stamps. How's it going? R1, welcome to the show. Maybe just tell us a little bit about the project. Why you guys did it and you're rolling it would be great. I'll be sure to unmute yourself though. Sorry. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, I was, I'm an artist on working a lot with a counter-party network.

And generally crypto blockchain interested in both of those things. And so this project was a bit of a crossover. And honestly, we just did it because it was sort of interesting. And we definitely didn't know what to do. We only didn't build it to sell, to sell it actually. And in a lot of ways, just wanted to succeed stuff. And then all the people decided that

that was a thing to do. So sort of just in the middle of it. But actually one of the most profound things that I think has come out of it that I'm interested in as an artist is the. I've mentioned about like Bitcoin. You're doing it wrong. It's not the thing. And I believe that Bitcoin was developed as a radical way to do centrally share and

distribute value between. People amongst a layer of consensus. And I think that people are clearly showing because this is not my day. I didn't sell this. No VC to push this project. Yeah. There's thousands of people doing it. Yes. I do people think immutable data is important. First of all, and whether it is or it isn't, yeah, whether how complicated. Usually XO tree would be to

implement and all those things, you know, how Bitcoin can scale. Yeah, I don't care. Really. Yeah. But what I'm seeing is people saying, see in art as value and saying it's like, yeah, like how if a picture is worth a thousand words, you know, how many transactions the pixel were, you know, and people are showing their willing to exchange that. And at the end of the

day, Bitcoin will be whatever we decide that it is, not whatever. Some people in the office, which are you doing it wrong. It's going to be because if we're going to imitate the system of fear and financial and just port it into Bitcoin, what did we do? You know, and I understand why some people want that. But and I'm not saying this thing. The answer, the

one I'm saying is the phenomenon is not about stamps or not about ordinals. It's about people. Like not rebellion, but they want to sort of a immortalize himself in the fountain of immortal things. They built pyramids for that. But I think it's use case in historical precedence for the importance of immutability. But also it's kind of like, I don't want to swear on TV, but it's

like, I'm going to do what I want. And I'm going to want to write for me like my cartoon cow has got more value than some. And I'm going to do the transactions that it's worth. You know, it's greater than some of its parts. And if you go on the community of telegram where we basically are based, you'll see him based. You'll see that like the

punk things that people are talking about that narrative. It's just a couple of people. It's not related to our group. It's people jumping on from other things. You know, we've got frogs and pigs and like stupid jokes and Anna. And I do believe that this is not the first time we've seen it. I'll finish now. But like look at emojis in history and like number systems

for a short amount of time really. And I would say that numbers really exists to measure our emotion, you know, not to control our emotion. And I think we're turning it back. Either way. I've always thought that art was a great way to get more people into Bitcoin. And especially collectible art like a baseball card or a print from an artist, something like that. So I

think it's a great idea in that way. And it's an interesting to see it challenge. Ordinals, whereas ordinals. You know, obviously when we did care. The billionaires have they had a lot of technology going on. But when we had a lot of materialy cards in 2017, we looked at our options. We were like, well, Ethereum is a good one. Counterparty. Making our own version of Ethereum.

That's the possibility. But we obviously didn't have segregated witness to work with that idea of splitting it off. However, it seems like Bitcoin stamps could these have been done at any time. Does it require any of the new upgrades to make it possible? No, honestly, that's, that's not something I mean, I promise sort part of it. More to international privately funded group of a thousand devs.

I can turn it over with my JPEGs and break. It's not even me, though, how is that even possible? I should be not believe that if this really breaks Bitcoin, it's not like all the countries in the world ready to be lost. Bitcoin will come from JPEGs. You know, it's like we should talk about this. with us. Yeah, maybe if you compare to auditors, can you

make it clearer what auditors in crypto inscriptions, so they all the whole stack there and you compare it to a bit of stable stack. What give it for you as even as an artist, what more get does it give you? What more benefits do you get out of this? Why would you choose stems over the ordinary description? Well, because it's, I know this is not technically

good English, but it's more immutable. It's the most immutable, currently available information decentralized storage in the world. You know, there's no other way to do it. I know of, I mean, I'm not an expert and I don't claim to have even done anything for me. Basically, simple stuff that was already available and just an extension of my, as I've said, my sort of statement that I

said said previously. I'm when I spoke to Mike about it. He was like, I've got this idea and I don't even necessarily think that I would speak on behalf of Mike and say all values are aligned. But, you know, serendipitously when those two things happened. Yes, I'm interested in pressing buttons and trying to help the growth of Bitcoin as well, because I do want Bitcoin to

be a feature that we can all believe in. That's just how expedient that process. And yeah, we have permanence in a level that, I think it's quite easy, technically, right? To pass or what I think most nodes, if you own a node at home and you're a normal person, quote unquote, you probably have already got a pass note, a proved node. And you don't even, that's

just what you get on default on a Bitcoin call. You know, you'd have to think about it when actually I was in ordinals very early on as well as a new learner. And, you know, 99% of people rushing to download orders. And that's called node downloaded approved node, tried to do it. And after a week, they realized they couldn't do it. And then at the start

again with the full node. So that is a learning process. And I'm all about people having nodes. But in the future, if you're going to have something on your phone or something like that, then you're, you're, your stamp is more likely to be there at that point. I'm your. I've got a minor technical questions. So right now the stamps are very small. They're like 24 by

24 pixels because of the cost. If you wanted to pay for a larger JPEG, could you simply pay for it? And then my second question is kind of more dangerous. If you could put like an executable file into the blockchain line by line. And it comes out the other side like that alien program from contact. And now you can just run the program. Is that possible?

Is that dangerous? Is that something you encourage? What do you think about these ideas? Some say that already happened. But yeah, I mean to an extent, one of the things that we were really careful on to about stamps, yeah, is it is a fun and experimental project, but we don't want to really break anything or anybody. So we were quite keen for stamps to be an

art project pixel based art effectively in order to illustrate it, you know, not to. We don't allow those sorts of things. I think I want to say that. So we are quite careful about it. Obviously it's a decentralized service by people. Anyone can write on the blockchain. But we do filter. And we do we are an art based project. If you're doing codes or things, it's

not really possible. But it wouldn't be part of the stamped project. I wouldn't be viewable through our API or whatever. Very good. Victoria Jones, do you have any questions or comments about stamps? It's way over my head. Sorry. Not my not my department. All right. Let's go to Daniel. I know you run a full node. Maybe you have some questions. I knew my friends on. Uh,

Noster, Pleb chain are going to probably crucify me for saying it, but I do think it's interesting. At least just because it goes back to kind of my roots as a digital artist. Um, I used to create pixel art on a commoner 64 where it was. You had 16 colors to work with in a tiny little box to work with. And so, you know, I, I

find that style of art very interesting. And there's no way I could ever possibly go back and find those again because they're all either completely destroyed. Or on floppy disks that. That means. Maybe in an addict somewhere. So the idea that you can create that sort of thing and know that will be there forever is, I think, very interesting. Though I, I, I, I do have

concerns again for the storage space. You know, we've, we've seen the block size war. We know what happened with the big block versus the small block crowd and the desire to be able to cram everything into Bitcoin. Um, and. Just the, the, you know, the fact that if you want to run a node and you want to run a full node. Because you want that ability

to archive all of the Bitcoin transactions. I can do that right now on a one terabyte hard drive, which is only about just a little more than halfway full. The hardware costs obviously over time go down, but it still can become out of reach for people in parts of the world that don't have access to inexpensive technology. So, you know, the idea that Bitcoin has to

remain decentralized enough so that everyone who wants to participate can. It's a lot of things that I've been doing. It does concern me that we're going to see blockchain bloat because of things that are being embedded. Maybe arbitrarily things that don't necessarily have have any value. Maybe one or two of these, these NFTs will, will take off as a series. And suddenly people will foam. Oh,

and you'll see this market emerge. But I don't know if they have the sort of value that I would want to, to see. You know, as I think, what did you say, Victoria polluting the, eliminating the blockchain, when we do have so many more important things to try to focus on that Bitcoin does solve. So I know we can't stop it. I know that people are

going to tinker. They're going to develop. They're going to experiment. That's what this is. This whole thing that we call Bitcoin is a big experiment that's been running for 14 years. And I'm sure that there'll be more things we haven't thought about that will come to pass and we'll have these debates over and over again. So all I can say is good luck to you. I'm

not going to participate in a lot of my self, but I'm sure that I'll be in the minority if it takes off. It's not me. First of all, it's just I literally just, you say it for the memes, you know, but also a couple of things to finish. You say people say bloat, but I think it's goat. I think that, like I said, I think that

it's quite current to be so much emphasis on transactions being the actual money, you know, fee up being, and t out value. I mean, what we base in it, is that it's a big gain. It's like anything in the last 100 years, basically, just take some chewing gum from 1900, and it's going to be worth like $1,000 of the packet equivalently. And I know we're talking

about Bitcoin, and we're trying to solve this, but I think that this is not a technological revolution. Bitcoin was a technological revolution. This is more of a philosophical revolution. And it's like, people don't want people don't want money. They're not interested in banking. We've seen that, yeah, but people understand that's my picture. That's my JPEI key R as a store of value, which is greater. I

believe that we will at least be able to talk about this. Like, who are we? What is value? Where do we get that impression of all those things? And do we really want to just copy the world onto Bitcoin? What do we want to create a new Bitcoin? Which we all agree. Yeah, everybody, because it seems like there's loads and loads of people going, yeah, JPEGs.

And there's like a couple of people going, I'm doing it wrong. And it's like, well, the people are going to decide that's what consensus means. So if genius people, like, so for another people go, okay, how come we actually apply this together? How come we actually make our value? And we can accept that people consensus already agree with that, rather than trying to abstract it and

make it all about transaction layers. And anyway, it runs off of that. What whenever everybody goes to lightning and all that, and how you deal about that. But cases all the argument that actually these pictures of frogs and cows will go back to controlling and securing layer one. In perhaps in the same way as in ancient time, with the kings and gods and rulers of commodities,

we trade things of value and scale and measure as art. As actual new moral, new marine value. But yeah. It's always interesting to see how this comes around. I know when we were making Kerio cards in 2017, we used ERC 20 tokens with it at the time we're mainly used for ICOs, which are kind of like stock offerings. And it was like, these are very serious

stock offering tokens. And like, how could you create your goofy little cards on here? You know, and they're like, you shouldn't do that. You should do it on counterparty with Rare Pepe. And then there are other people that told us Rare Pepe were the only ones that should ever exist. And you should only make Pepe's. So it's interesting to see there are a lot of gatekeepers,

even ones you wouldn't expect. And at the same time, if you can write this into the Bitcoin blockchain, and there's no errors and nothing goes wrong, you can write it in the blockchain. Nobody can stop you there. That's how that works. Arwen, thanks for being our guest. Would you like to join us for a couple more issues here to have time? We were laid on inviting

you and we're really glad you could come. And it's great to have your ideas about stamps and great to hear from Mike in space and Theo and the rest of the gang as well. Just great to see these new ideas. So just try to mute yourself when you're not talking. And then we'll call on you for the next issue. Moving on to issue four. Apple hiding

a Bitcoin manifesto in Max is fueling theories that Steve Jobs was Satoshi Nakamoto. They don't have very much evidence. They have the document, which is I can confirm included on my copy of macOS right here. It's kind of a sample document for the scanner. So this is what a PDF file looks like. So it's not like it's even really labeled as the Bitcoin white paper or

some kind of Easter egg is probably whoever programmed the scanner software, the scanner driver. The second piece of information they have that proves the Steve Jobs is indeed Satoshi Nakamoto is that Satoshi stopped commuting and mitigating around 2010 and jobs passed away in 2011. So these are not very strong points, but we'll go down the panel because it's such an exciting and fun idea to talk

about. Christian Routsel was Steve Jobs, the genius behind Apple personally made my Apple iPhone. Was he also Satoshi Nakamoto? I hope not. It's just like seriously. I mean, it's always it's a little bit funny. I get that this is a story in his beak and this is a story. This is this is cost a bit works at gossip perfectly. It's it's because people want to see

this big innovations like we see with Bitcoin and they want to see it as as this is one figure they can attach like like they're sinking companies like multi billionaires seeing the world as that playground. It's like the same thing with Elon Musk and Dogecoin. It's it's really he completely roomed it. He squeezed the last little fun that was an endochcoin out of it with his

was playing with it. So at least and this should not be sound sound harsh, but if it if we find more evidence that it could have been jobs, Steve Jobs at least he's not alive anymore. I mean sorry to say he was okay, but at least that's somebody who's really not there anymore. So he cannot do something strange or something like like Musk is kind of

doing so because seeing all those kind of technology becoming some playground from some multiple unairs is I know it works. It's good. I think it's not true. I agree. Christian has some echoes of the great man theory of history where only people like Napoleon or Martin Luther King affected history, not the millions of people following the people doing the bus boycotts the people fighting the wars,

but rather these great men. So if you look at the Satoshi roster and you say, well, it has to be jobs or Bill Gates or Balmer Alan or the Oracle guy Larry Ellison, one of these people because they're the only ones that could do that. They can do it because they're huge and they're big and the reality which Satoshi for all we know is a totally

random person, a man or woman or space alien. And we just don't know. So it's fun to talk about Victoria Jones. What do you think about Satoshi jobs? Well, it's interesting because I think they said the paper only goes back as the operating system from 2018. So that suggests it was added in 2018, maybe not as far back as the other. So I think it's interesting

because 2011, which would kind of discount the idea that it was maybe Steve Jobs who was Satoshi Nakamoto. Having said that there a number of years ago, I watched this video by someone called Bix Weir who's very into silver and he was very he knew some remote viewing guys. I don't know if you've heard of remote viewing something that apparently the US Army used to use

as part of their psychological warfare apparently it was a program introduced by the US. By Ronald Reagan and there are people who now use those techniques to explore other things and one of the things they used it for was to try and explore, you know, who Satoshi Nakamoto could be and the result they came up with was that it was Alan Greenspan Steve Jobs and someone

else they couldn't identify. And this is a number of years ago before this even happened. So you know whether or not it's true. I mean the thing is these things are like entertainment and possibilities and you know I think for as long as Bitcoin exists. And Thrive you know people are always going to be fascinated by the idea of whoever Satoshi Nakamoto was and I will

say the one that I mean he was clearly a genius but the most genius move he made was to keep himself anonymous because it's just such an interesting story and to have kept himself anonymous even in an age where you've got access to all this digital information. I think is incredible. I mean that's testament to his skill as much as anything else. So yeah, so I

think it's always going to be interesting but I did you know the thing that occurred to me when I was I heard this story was you know watching this video a number of years ago when they maintain that Steve Jobs was a key part of the team. And also people people talk about Satoshi Nakamoto being an individual but in the white paper he actually refers to

himself as we. Now I know sometimes people can do that anyway. So he could be an individual and claiming he was collective or it could actually be a collection of people I'm not sure will ever know. But nevertheless it's fascinating. I've been in the various chats that I'm in today. People have been looking on their computers to try and find it and people have been finding

it and they're blown away by it. And so it's an exciting story. I'm very interesting but yeah. I'm going to make the code to make the emails. There might be multiple people there. The basics of the trilogy theory as I recall it you have to watch old videos because I don't remember but it's like a young guy coded it. An old guy had the philosophy and

maybe somebody in the middle had the economic value because there's just so much of detailed knowledge of multiple fields that you'd have to have three or four doctorate degrees or you'd have to be three or four people. Daniel M. What do you think about Steve Jobs? Steve Jobs Satoshi. Everybody gets a free iPhone. When Victoria said remote viewing the image that came to my mind was

know for sure is it wasn't Steve Wozniak. He was an Ethereum guy. That's been put to rest. We all know that. But yeah, so when I saw that, I saw the post a couple days ago and I had to try it out for myself. I immediately copied and pasted the line, put it into my terminal and there was the white paper and just in all its

glory. It's just amazing to see that that was laying there waiting for us to discover it. It's just remarkable to know that it's part of another part of our Bitcoin history. Another one of those crazy stories that we never get to the bottom of. Maybe that's a good thing. It's probably some developer who loved Bitcoin, who worked at Apple and put it in there. And I

hope that someone would find it one day. And it would be a story like this. It's just a fun thing for me to see. If Steve Jobs has a connection to Satoshi, maybe he was one of the several people that were involved. We'll never know. But it's paraphrase what Jack Moller said on Bloomberg. A little while back. Bitcoin, we never know who Satoshi Nakamoto is. You

might be dead, but it's working pretty well. And finally, Arwen, what do you think about the possibility that Steve Jobs is Satoshi Nakamoto? Well, I believe some big, pretty big whoppers, to be honest with you in my reality. But that one is not something I'm going to dwell on too long. I would say, again, the same no. I love the idea, though, for the whole PC

versus Apple War. You're like, oh, yeah, you have a PC. Well, my computer was designed by Satoshi Nakamoto. And as a guy, it's. It's kind of like a really low brow. Like, oh, we're going to do the KLF and like some versibly in them five years later. You know, this is the start of Dumb and Dumber 2. When he's like, does the joke for seven years,

that's actually funny. This is just like, yeah, bro, whatever. Okay. I do. I do love like Daniel was saying that we've been. If you had a Mac, you've been secretly carrying around the white paper for all these years. It's a pretty wild. I've got a Mac and a have been carrying it around. So. Maybe I'll just look into Bitcoin inside. Oh, Bitcoin inside. That'd be pretty

good. Let's move on to the exit question here. There's, there's another Satoshi that's interested in this story. That's right. Craig Wright as the USA today says self proclaimed Satoshi is allegedly targeting Apple for breaching copyright. With the Bitcoin white paper, let's go really quickly down the line. Christian roots. So what do you think about Craig Wright trying to get in on the Steve Jobs story and

alleging copyright once more for the white paper? Yeah, this sounds like a very hard ego there. It's like, I don't know. So then it's especially like the copyright on the on the white paper is I don't get that part. I mean, they're just salty. They had like there, but but I totally don't get the story. Somebody just tries to find some angle to be part of

the And then of course, that's an invitation for someone else allegedly to come along and claim I wrote that I made that I own that. So Victoria Jones, what do you think about old fake Satoshi trying to tear down our new fake Satoshi Steve Jobs? I have to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to go to the the more I read and learn about Craig

Wright, the more I'm convinced he has some serious mental health problems. I mean, I'm sorry, but anyone who wants to spend that length of time engaged in legal battles. I mean, I've been engaged in a legal battle before in my life. And there are better things to do with your life, quite frankly. I mean, I know he's actually he's been fairly successful in the past using

that kind of strategy, but on this one. I mean, I think right from the beginning, you know, Satoshi Nakamoto designed and such. So I think it's a very important thing to do. I mean, I don't know, I, I, he needs, he needs some help. Some serious mental help, I think. Well, I'm not supposed to get political, but we do have some wonderful narcissists here in the

United States that just love the court system and they love to sue people. They love not to pay. And recently they've even been getting indicted and arranged. So it is interesting out there. Daniel M. What do you think about Craig Wright's claim? James against Apple? Well, there are two things you can guarantee will always happen in Bitcoin. One is the media will declare a dead over

and over again. And Craig Wright will declare that he invented it over and over again. I don't see it going away anytime soon. He loves the limelight. I'm not sure what his motives are other than wants to be famous and thinks he can scam people and for some people that's just enough for them. So I feel sorry for anyone who follows him. If you are one

of Craig Wright's devotees, please take a long hard look at him and what he really represents because you might find that there's not much there that you should be putting your faith in. Well, and we're all enjoying this little Easter egg that we, we know was probably added by some coder who's working on the scanner driver. But Craig Wright is the one who comes in with

the blanket ready to snuff out all our fun. He's like, no one can enjoy having a little copy of the white paper on your computer. There's no fun. And I think it's a great thing to do. If it coin and I just think that alone, if I was on his side, I'd be like, why am I following the no fun guy? We're all going to get

sued after this. I'm sure. Oh, yeah, we're all everyone's names on the list. We're lucky if you're anonymous here. Are when the last to be sued. What do you think about Craig Wright's claims on the white paper? Maybe I'm sure it's been inputted as text into the blockchain, which he also must own. But yes, it's another great claim from Craig. Oh, got to unmute. Sorry. Craig

is a big supporter of Stamps. And there's like many sub 10 stamps. I think he's got like 15 sub 10 stamps or something like that, allegedly. So I don't want to say too much. And also, I think he inspired the code. I believe that he visited Mike in a dream and gave him the concept. So really nothing bad to say about Craig, apart from the fact

he's hilarious. And I enjoy the show. Like he's obviously super smart guy. There's a lot of things. But I don't, I've not loved the same. I'm kind of ennemy for the assuming so best not. But good look. And there's Stamps on BSV coming sooner. Let's smash that. There's loads of room. I was going to say that's coming next. It's really neat. If he owns some early

stamps. But I totally agree with you. BSV, BCH, all these other projects could very easily adapt, adapt this stamps idea to them and then you know, have a similar system. No knowledge of Craig Wright. Just that was just a comedy bit. I was doing. I don't have any knowledge. Everyone knows it's Elon who was the only in Stamps. We'd be interesting if Elon was in the

Trinity and maybe it's Craig Wright, Elon Musk and Steve Jobs. Oh, how exciting. Not Steve Jobs. Right. That could be Bill Gates. Maybe no one knows. Moving on to issue five. Our bonus issue. I just saw this today. We were talking a lot about Binance last week. Binance's market share hits lowest level since November after the CFTC lawsuit and the end of zero. Fee trading as

we talked about a lot of times whenever anyone offers zero free trading. That means that there's no fee to trade with yourself. And now you can create infinite fake volume or as Binance's trading share has dropped from 70% of the market to 54% perhaps they just had to turn off the zero fee. Bots or perhaps people are really leaving Binance in droves the company without a

home. The alleged criminal can be a lot of money. What do you think about Binance and their sudden loss of market share? Well, I mean, I don't understand the case in detail, but the few things that I have heard and listen to, it does sound like they might have Binance a bit over a barrel with this legal case because there is not many ways out of

it. I think people who have had that kind of writ against them in the past just by being forced to defend themselves, it could cost them an awful lot of money. And we all know how deep Binance's pockets are, but even then that could be enough to really put a dent in their pockets. So I think there are some people who are taking this really seriously.

I mean, we all know that Binance has been in the crosshairs of the US government. I think a lot of the people who are harmed by the whole FTX thing. And I think there was some powerful people who are affected by that really now have it in for Binance. And so, you know, when you realize that they've created some powerful enemies, it does make you think

twice. They've avoided a lot. And I admire the product that they've created. I've used it myself. But all good things come to an end. And I'm not saying it's the end for Binance, but I don't think anyone should minimize the gravity of the situation there. And I mean, CZ is doing terrific job on the PR front as he normally does. But I think this is the

case. This law, civil lawsuit seems to be quite a serious thing. And I think people who understand that are kind of thinking, OK, maybe it's time to move my resources in a different direction than fair enough, you know, so. I believe Binance has been accused of mixing customer data with their US operation with their international operation, customer trades, other information like that, which of course has

freaked out the US government. The other half of that is there seems to be kind of a kind of an FTX revenge tour going on. I don't remember if this article or another article, but it talked about how the politicians were upset that they had egg on their face. And now they're going to take it out on the rest of the crypto industry because FTX and

SPF trick them and made them look bad. And so forth. Daniel M, what do you think about the sudden drop in Binance market share? Well, I think it shows that there really wasn't that much volume. It was faked. You know, that's how I see it. And with just like, if you can have Victoria said, it is easy to make it look like there's volume when there

isn't. You know, I think when you run a huge exchange like that, it can help. Kind of give you a lot of hubris. I think CZ really let this whole enterprise go to his head really feels like he thinks he's untouchable. And now he's starting to realize that maybe that is not the case. I'm actually curious about something entirely different. I'd like to know what's happening

with the $2 billion recovery fund that was promised. In November of last year, when everything started falling apart for the crypto markets, we know that Binance has been the kingmaker in the crypto world. And so it's interesting to see that they made a promise, but I haven't seen anything being delivered. So what companies, what projects are meant to benefit from this? And where's that money all

going? I haven't heard any answers about that myself. So I think that, you know, just like you said, FTX was a huge black eye. It's against not just the industry, but against politicians, against regulators. And now they are looking for someone they can take down. And you know, potentially this is their opportunity. It was interesting to see all of that recovery money. I think Binance had

put up around $2 billion, held it in a public account that was trackable. And now it's been moved. So I think unfortunately that's probably going to go to the Binance Defense Fund or something like that. And it does seem like CZ was on his way. He was training to become a hero, but that hero seemed to be Lex Luthor. I'm not sure what direction he was

going in. So that's all allegedly, of course. Our win. What do you think about Binance? They've hit some trouble with the CFTC and they've lost about 20% of their market share. Well, I think, I mean, it goes like that. What's 20%? It's like nothing. Like a finance or whatever they are doing. I don't think they really care about America. I think that's pretty clear. They're going

to do what they want. I mean, like everybody, every star we have in India is eventually hosted by the Reptile. Is this like CZ's time? I don't know. I don't know. It's like, I don't think so. But also I don't have Binance and I don't worry too much about it. I don't even really, I don't follow it too closely. But yeah, I mean, what we know

is this about personalities and eventually, like it all comes home to Roost. But to what authority? Like I see this doesn't really get involved in America. They can do what they want. And he's going to be like, yeah, fine, bro. That's what I think. It was only months ago that SBF was on the cover of Fortune magazine and other things like this. So it is interesting.

Today's hero is tomorrow's evil genius. You gotta track them down. I don't mind. The whole SBF thing is like, exactly. It's another story. I don't know. It's not my place to talk about that on this show. But like it's a different story to see the isn't it? And there's definitely compete in power with each of them trying to have a play monopoly with each other. But

look, pretty bad. I'm against it. Say the numbers of everything and use pictures as a value and it solves all these problems. As soon as we can get a decentralized picture exchange going, we'll be all set. Come on. Christian Ruto, what do you think about CZ's troubles and Binance losing a great share of their market? Yeah, I think it's great. It's just like, yeah, it does

speak players, does does speak trade. I mean, sure, there needs to be trading somehow. But I want to see it more on the eyes are on the local level. So it's really part of the community and that the profits that are made there are then kind of people at least it somehow gets back into society or something at least and not into the pockets of some

big shits. And so, so the I'm glad to see those big big, big kind of trickery, legally trickery, we're always whistling around kind of basically there are company. But, but, but, but just try to get get get get get around and don't want to don't want to be a bit seriously. That's also yeah it's it's good to see them off all apart. So either regulate correctly

do your part in your country and be part often. Basically, financially infrastructure with all the problems that come of that or or really go decentralized and then really do do do do do do do do do do do. Do or not on the ground level. This middle thing was was a big money maker in the past and then glad to see this more more falling. with

a prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead. Maybe maybe both my prediction is we will see this year a more Bitcoin because I already already saw the first kind of science as with my new career as the STJ. So doing the video meme thing. It seems to work good with people. So I see more more Bitcoin as dancing and it's my prediction. This is

a trend that will continue this year. And maybe looking to to to to BTC Prague. If you go there maybe there will be a platform where we have a good good good good party. We see. And story of the week is a little bit it's maybe a recommendation because family times coming up the holidays basically are happening now. I can say check out with a sad

lantes. It's a Minecraft project where we basically can play together with your family kids like maybe. Kids can teach you a little bit about Minecraft. But in the game there's a little asick. So you mine Bitcoin basically and you get Satoshi's even as rewards that you can pay out. So you can. Get people there first Satoshi's this way also. So it does maybe nice thing to

connect over the holidays. So that's my kind of story of the week. Sadlantis.net. You should find it. That's the server and yeah that's my recommendation my story. That sounds pretty fun. The last time I was on a Bitcoin Minecraft server. They'd figured out how to put the Bitcoin or the Satoshi into like the jewels. Then they were dumping the jewels in the lava. And they were

destroying. The Bitcoin. That was very exciting. I know I don't know what happened on the back end if it was successful or not, but it was a nice idea. Victoria Jones you have a prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead. Both articles can be found on my website, but they've now made a point of publishing those. So that's quite exciting. And and also someone

reached out to me on my last newsletter and asked if they could translate to Spanish because they wanted to share it with their Spanish friends. And so that inspired me to start translating some of my website. So I'm starting off with Spanish may well come up with a few other languages in the future. Just to try and you know, keep spreading the message and you know

getting that information out there. Because it's quite a lot of effort to put together something like a newsletter and actually translating it into different languages seems like a good way of kind of spreading it further and wider. So yeah, I've had quite a lot to do lately and keeping me busy and at trouble. That's my story. That's great Victoria. Congratulations on the international business times. That

sounds great. Daniel M. Do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. They can do a prediction. So you know I left Twitter back in November or less. I've never looked back really and found my way into Noster, which I've just been going down that rabbit hole. It's I think I dragged you in there kicking and screaming. But so there was no

one kind of running a node community on Noster. So if you have a started one called node stretch, which launched at the end of January, even before zapping was enabled on the platform. And we've grown it to almost 200 nodes right now at a hundred and ninety three. And I think that's a lot of fun. In the last two and a half months. So my prediction

is we'll hit 200 nodes by the end of this month. We've had some fairly prominent people join like BTC sessions and C equals, which is part of block have signed up. So you know, we're all doing our part to keep lighting network decentralized and reliable. And it's just a great place to learn like if you've never thought about running a node before. If you did think

about it and thought it was too hard. Welcome to join. It's an open community. It's completely free. And you even get your own nip 05. I'd just for signing up. So come on in. It's a lot of fun. You can visit node stretch and ODE STR ICH.com. Sounds great, Daniel. I think one of the main uses for a Noster users is to get that thing where

it shares your key. So you don't have to put your public or your security key into everywhere. You put it into that server thing. And then the server would log in for you. So especially if you could teach people how to do that. Because there's a whole thing coming where if your Noster private key gets exposed, your identity is doomed. So nobody wants to face up

to that. But that's a reality of using a private key like that directly on the network. You're like your metal on metal like a train. It's going to be there. So hopefully solutions like that will get out to more people. Finally, Arwin, do you have a prediction or a story a week or maybe just what you guys are working on next with stamps? Go ahead. Yeah,

like I say, I'm like, hopefully we're doing a stamp chain.io forward slash mint. If you want to mint, all I want to say about it is, we just did it before. No, seriously. So a lot of people going out there trying to mint. They money do sales and they're trying to circumvent what better to profit from their own things. You know, and it's like, don't use

camel wallet. Use the service. Use free wallet. Yeah, it's like it's a comparable product that we're improving all the time. We built it not first. We built the protocol for it. First and when we see the damage that's being done by people messing up wasting so much money on camera. So on unsupported products, that worries me a bit. So they don't find my way and just

join the group. It's like, that's what I would say. But then that mullets are big. Check out. Mullets seem to be everywhere. I don't know. I've got mullet. Representing in representing to the mullets across the world. Grilling mullet. That's good advice. Very good. It's been so long since we've seen a community formed around a hairstyle like the mullet. Great stuff. Everybody check out Bitcoin stamps. Thanks

to everybody for watching. Be sure to give us a thumbs up down below. Push subscribe if you haven't already. And we'll be here every week. So until next time. Bye.