The Bitcoin Group #349 - Crypto Banks Falling - 30

The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest sitoshis, the best Bitcoin, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Martin Wishmare from General Bites. Good evening, guys. Gabriel D. Vaughn, futurist. Hello. Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. Redcombs was a weekend. And perhaps Josh Shagalla from Valtoro, joining live from Australia. Hey, everyone, welcome. Right in time. And I'm Thomas

Hunt from the world crypto network, moving on to issue one issue one Bitcoin, ether fall after go to bank collapse of the banks and the subsequent 10% collapse of Bitcoin and Ethereum and others. Yeah, I saw on the Twitter, and many people are saying like, oh, a bank collapses and they're selling their Bitcoin, how stupid. But it is a bit of an issue. I, for example,

used crypto to come for a while. And one of their own ramps of their only left on ramp for fiat currency in the US was this silver gate bank. So what happens is that the silver gate, the crypto to come exchange is basically left without any way to transfer dollars to them. So that will without doubt have an effect on prices because nobody can trade on

the other hand, those in Europe are very well, well, everything is still working there because of the banking partners in Europe. Europe have apparently have no problems, but it's just the US. So it looks like, yeah, sort of orchestrated attack on the Bitcoin on ramps. And this is something we've been like, you know, talking about in the past is the interest. They want if you know

if you can't prohibit Bitcoin and you can try to attack it on an off ramps to fiat, then you also kill Bitcoin, well, you don't kill Bitcoin, but it makes it harder to trade in Bitcoin. So I'm not to worry. I didn't know. I didn't sell a single set torshi to be honest because I think other platforms will will will will start, you know, working and

red fidelity investments, one of the largest asset managers in the US, I believe. Do I do a lot of stuff for the people for investors, they also have a crypto division. And they will they will definitely take part of that. So I'm not to worry. It's. It's more bad luck, but it looks like an orchestrated this attack, if you ask me. Gabriel D. Vine, it almost

seems like Martina's just setting you up there and organized attack. Yeah, you know, I'm reminded of the image of Domino's, but in this case, the Domino's were not set up by good actors and then knocked down by bad rather the entire game was intended to attack. Attract users or players, let's say in the game with the Domino's and then they're knocked down by the same parties

that set them up and attracted all the players. Wrecking, you know, anybody naive enough to invest in these frauds in the process. I would like to first give a shout out to Ansel Lindner, who's Bitcoin and markets reports I listen to. So I think that's what I would like to do. I think his take on macro economics is just really unique because it's Bitcoin centric and

Austrian economics focus, but he's got a very interesting, very non gold bug non inflation is to kind of approach to analyzing the world economy. And Ansel was pointing out the really important because people are panicking my whole Twitter timeline is now full of. Total panic and saying, okay, here we're back in 2008 and this is the beginning of the next. What do you call snowball effect

and this is the thread and the straw that's going to break the candles back and all the banks are now going to just fall over in the tug of war into the mud bit and he was pointing out that. Not only are Bitcoin and you know crap coins and stonks down, but also. The dollar. That's not normal in a normal panic. The dollar will actually spike

because it's a flight to safety. So here we've got something else going on. The picture is not clear yet. So I would encourage. The viewers today not to jump to conclusions and just take things. You know as they come and see see what happens even though interest rates are down. I'd like to point out that in this article from. Cmbc you know they're still talking about

the industry and the crypto space as if Bitcoin and crypto are in the same industry. And while many people are grouping them together in tradify and you know finance bros. They're actually divestantly opposed as martine pointed out. So really this is a fiat attack further fiat attack on Bitcoin. And we see this you know this whatever dominoes set up and knockdown playing out where they set

up these banks in order to attract and make it easy. Make up make all these easy on ramps and try to attract all this business and pretend like it's oh it's the future when the entire point the whole time was to destroy them and implode them and try to have that failure. Stick to Bitcoin and tarnish Bitcoin's image and somehow delay it from destroying them. And

the other funny thing that I saw in the NBC article which is about the Silicon Valley bank forced closure which is that they some some I don't remember the official who said it but they described the bank system as having quote compared to 2008 having quote more robust guardrails which is just so funny. It may be true but it's just it's just it's just a lot

of things. They're fractional reserve so there's always you know you you may have moved you know point something to from point A to point B but the fact is that all of these banks are a single bank runaway from collapse implosion. It is funny once you start learning about inflation and the history of money. You always think that the next burst is going to be the

one and you're like this is it this is the end of all things this is all and it will be eventually probably. But it never quite seems to be the one and this is a good bank run but it's a bank run on a couple of small banks. I do kind of agree unfortunately. Kind with a prevailing conspiracy theory type idea here's a tweet. I saved

for you Gabe and the guy basically just details all the things that happened this weekend. All within 48 hours so it really is you know coincidence or whatever but it does look like a very bad weekend for Bitcoin and cryptocurrency Dan Eve what do you think about the collapse of these two banks. Which is obviously going to make it harder for startups companies like Coinbase use

these banks for exclusively for a long time as the only way they could get money in or out which whether you like it or not people have to be paid usually in dollars and they usually use a bank like this to do it. Yeah especially if you're working in the crypto industry and you're you're paid in crypto currency you need a place to be able to

cash out and and this this doesn't help the scenario for people that get paid in crypto and now can have it. I think even was it crack in the last couple of months I pulled some banking support although if that was just for UK customers but the fact is that there are people that are going to benefit from this failure. I mean JP Morgan seems to

be the only one but they're about two and a half percent up at the moment. They're going to be in the share price. They're probably going to be reaping some of the rewards of the books of SVB and and the fact is that whilst you're you know whilst the banks I have since 2008 put all these controls in place. It does and I actually was one

of my main jobs as a business analyst was for was putting in a data control governance system for a finance company and and even people looks like inside the company was there's not enough regulation. This is going to happen again blah blah blah and and the situation will repeat itself. Well the bigger banks are just going to get bailed out because they unfortunately you know as

much as they say they're not too big to they're too big to fall. They're not too big to fall. They are too big to fall because the government will just bail them out like they they have last time. The smaller banks have got less of a chance of that actually happening. And so ultimately the people that get penalized are the the small companies that have been

setting themselves up and and require banking services in the crypto industry. The startups they're the ones that they get penalized most. And it sort of seems like you're saying about this coordinated attack but you know when we're not in and this has kind of been for our history when we're not in a bull market we're in a regulation market you know everything we have all these

collapses it's everyone loses money everyone. She's the bad it's time to suddenly rain in on the crypto industry. Because it's getting too far ahead of itself. All always forgetting about what actually happened in 2000 2008 crisis. And why Bitcoin is here in the in the first place. So yeah it's these these things are just going to keep on happening over and over and over again until

until really there is enough confidence in in some of the really some of the bigger banks to take on cryptocurrency even in the UK two banks of mine in the last month or two. So if you're not in the first place or out saying that they won't be taking any any crypto related business. So if you're if you're sending money to a cryptocurrency exchange. You know

that's now banned. So if anything I thought the UK was kind of opening up but it seems like the banks themselves. And so forth. Josh Wissigala what do you think about the bank run the dominoes falling and is it all Bitcoin's fault? Banking banking with a little stinking banking. No it's it the thing is that Bitcoin has never needed. Banking as such. It needed the on

wraps. It did but really it was built for not needing this. And now with a lot of the stable coins out there. It's even less needed in terms of people working in the space and wanting to get. You know that that can be said on one side and then on the other side you can say. That businesses do need banks the business side of Bitcoin does

need banks and and this is what's difficult when it comes to running a crypto. Business or Bitcoin business is that that really you do need it. But like I said on last week's show with the Silvergate thing. We've been running Valtteri since 2015 as Bitcoin only. And the thing is in those early days we you had to open up. I don't know like a bank every

week because they were closing them just as fast as you can open them on you and they wouldn't tell you why. So you as a Bitcoin business you're very well practiced in the practice of opening up contingency bank accounts and making sure that it's okay. Now these sorts of things where if there's a bank run and the FD I said the insurer comes and takes over

the bank that's a different story. And I think crypto might be getting the blame for this rather than. And you know hey is there a problem in the banking sector? Is there a wider problem and Silicon Valley Bank is one of the first to go because it's a bit more highly risk less risk of worse than the others. I mean the thing is that the Fed

has been lifting interest rates every time now for a while. And we have. People that are so highly leveraged. Because of the pandemic that's happened and the cheap money. And now a lot of these people will start defaulting. Not only that you've got inflation. You've got a whole lot of issues happening where people just cannot afford. So maybe this is one of the first to fall.

And if it is then Bitcoin is the refuge. And it's interesting because the other. About I don't know two weeks ago when. When they were coming out with their inflation data in the US. It was so interesting for me because the mainstream as well as the mainstream and I could say this nowadays because the industry is so big now the Bitcoin industry is that the mainstream

Bitcoin industry was giving this ridiculous. Narrative that. Ooh. If in fact. If inflation data comes out higher then we're going to see Bitcoin drop. Because it means X Y Z. And then but if inflation comes lower than expected. Then it's a good thing for Bitcoin and Bitcoin will keep on bullying. Now that just didn't make sense to me. I mean it makes sense in one way.

Because you know for the whole reasons that they said are the economy is doing better. It's you know it means that there's more money. People buy Bitcoin. But it's not going to be a good thing now. I mean it's not going to be a good thing. It's going to be a good thing now. In another way it doesn't make sense because Bitcoin was actually built as

a hedge against inflation or it's one of its functions. So. When there is inflation and massive inflation people will start to exit out it's the same it's the same thesis as gold. If the inflation gets too high you jump into your jumping Bitcoin or gold silver. So yeah it's it's an interesting time I don't blame Bitcoin for this I think it's I think it's horrible because

Silicon Valley bank has been a really good thing. Good actor in this in for us for our space on boarding businesses and and helping entrepreneurs out that want to trailblaze a very very risky space especially back in the day when every headline was drug lords and terrors and everything else. They said well we don't read those headlines we think you're doing a legitimate thing you're taking

K. I.C. you're doing you're doing anything so they they on board and where is many many banks didn't so. Yeah sad to see them go but I don't think it's a big problem. That is interesting about the Bitcoin and the inflation although I do think Bitcoin has to reach a certain size before it starts offsetting inflation and I'm not sure if we've gotten there yet in

amount of money in Bitcoin so that. It's moves don't white people out where it is right now a bunch of people get into a risk off mode they take their money off the market and that does actually still affect Bitcoin because we're just not that big. Moving on. So I want to the exit question predicting against the magic Bitcoin ball the true source of knowledge in

all the universe which everyone last week predicted that the price would be up I believe we have a lot of uppers in here will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week martin wish mayor. It will definitely be lower I think it will be lower I mean if you didn't sell yet it's time to apply for a job at McDonald's I think.

Many fine careers have been started at McDonald's many fine books have been written in prison Gabriel divine will it be higher or lower this time next week. I'm looking at the price now it looks like it's down 2.5% today under 20k so I think it's actually in the bottom and we're going to be inching higher in a week. It does seem like quite a lot of

negative stuff has happened and when you look at it we're only down 10 12% in the old days something about it happened 30% 50% in a day. That's not to say it couldn't happen again. Dan Eve higher or lower. I'm going to say just before I say but my little contract because you can the concentrating prediction the reason why they regulate on the on the way

down and not the way up is because on the way up and when we're up there's so much money floating around that everyone gets donations and backhanders. That's how it works right now we're seeing now we're seeing all everyone who it was donated went FTX was all up high and now they like throwing the book in. So my prediction is going to be because I'm still

after cheap Bitcoin and I'm a great concentrating indicator is that Bitcoin will be higher than Snoop Dogg next week. For a while. And now the magic Bitcoin ball the source of all truth will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week. Yes. Just straight yes. Nothing else. No ifs ands or buts just yes. It's very decisive ball. Moving on to issue to US Treasury

Department proposes 30% XI tax on crypto mining firms. They say that the Bitcoiners are you. They're using too much energy while we also want to raise capital gains tax and eliminate the ability for Bitcoiners to sell their Bitcoin then buy it back claiming a loss on the sale which many other categories of investments have done for many many decades Gabriel D. Vine what do you think

about the exciting action here from the Biden administration keeping in mind that this is just a proposal they don't control both houses and even if they did control both houses this wouldn't all go straight through I've seen a lot of people just go oh this is happening but still these are their aspirations. I am first going to comment on a couple of quotes from the Treasury

Department's proposal. Verbige. And that is. Or is it verbiage. Burbiage negative environmental effects of Bitcoin mining. This is a typical. Absolute lie it's an outright lie taking advantage of most citizens ignorance of the energy industry that it's not a monolith and that it's extremely localized and that you cannot just lump it all together and say well you know because somebody's using this energy and Idaho it

means that somebody's energy bill in Wisconsin is going to be higher no that is not how it works at all. And because of that. Very simple fact to think about that energy is localized Bitcoin mining is actually quite the opposite it will do everything to make. Energy production more efficient and cheaper and better for the environment because it will incentivize cleaner sources by making them more

efficient in general cleaner quote unquote sources of energy are far less efficient and need subsidies in other words they need. So Bitcoin actually makes some of these sources of energy viable by being a dependable variable user and demand for this extra energy that's around it can soak up all the extra energy that makes these energy production facilities inefficient and expensive. The other quote that I want

to call out is at the end they they they miss you. So I would seriously claim other harms and I would like to offer my interpretation of which other harms Bitcoin mining is rendering upon the world or upon the country let's say that the US Treasury Department is insinuating here the other harms are directly undermining a very long term Ponzi scheme which the Treasury Department is

at the center of which is called the central banking it's a communist scheme cooked up by psychopaths over the last couple hundred years in order to steal and enslave humanity Bitcoin is intended to destroy that. So the other harms they're talking about generally refer to offering freedom to individuals and a direct threat to the control of authoritarians. And I'm once again again going to defer to

my old pal Ansel Lindner who as I got his start here with Thomas on the World Crypto Network nine years ago. Ansel's a lot smarter than me so I'm just going to tell you guys what he said I believe yeah earlier today which is no way this will happen. The GOP has far too much power in Congress right now they would never let this giant spike

in capital gains tax to pass it has no chance of passing it's just a headline and virtue signal ploy. It does seem a bit like asking a DA DA agent for his advice on drug legalization he has kind of skin in the game obviously Dan Eve what do you think about this being a tax on new tech backwards idea in itself? Well I don't know if

it's just it's not I don't think it's new tech specifically because it you know the obviously EVs are benefiting from a huge wealth of sub subsidies and such around the world even though that Cynthia Loomis in the recent Senate like hearing is that the right term but where she made some really valid points about like what gives anyone the authority to say that that this usage

of electric is less worthy than this usage of electric because ultimately an electric car uses electricity off the grid and that's what miners use so do so does charging a vibrator or charging or playing your PlayStation like who's to say what is is is right for what you can be you know using your electricity for I think it goes down into it a bit of a

too much of a rabbit hole of okay well if we're saying that the crypto miners specifically need to be taxed there's you just saying because we don't agree with the way they're using electricity what about other things that could be considered either nefarious or far more damaging to the environment so it just seems a bit selective to be going down this route and and largely that's

because of the the kind of the social scare the social scary this was the words the social not worries but like you know people still producing these articles saying Bitcoin's only used for drugs and you know and kidnapping and blah blah blah so I think that they get carried away with this and they just say right well we need to stifle it's you know because we

don't want to be a part of that sort of system or you know obviously it is going to the increases you increase use of electricity is going to put additional strain on the grid but with additional strain comes additional investment to provide more a cheaper rate because you're being able to you know get economies of scale so where you can and also things like other things

like gas you know methane gas flaring right so where that methane is just going straight into the atmosphere at least it's been it's been fled you know that that electricity's sorry it's been that source of methane's been turned into electricity so there's lots of positives and negatives about it but I did like yes into the alums is approached with how she compared it to the gold

industry and I mean one thing they didn't pick up on was that you know is is gold really an a set of things that most one of the biggest uses of gold is just a personal you know having jewelry and whatever but it is used in things like electronics and circuitry so there is an actual use for it there but ultimately like if you look at

how much you know that all of these if you were to look at how much bitcoin uses in industry I think it's still something insanely small like 0.02% of all electricity that they always compare it to the size of a country oh it's bigger than the size of Uganda's electricity today oh today it's bigger than you know and they just it's all media bites that they

kind of make it's essentially they're like memes right it's like if you were to get your your news from memes now some memes are funny some memes are informative and some memes are complete BS but they might sound slightly logical and it just seems like the people that are writing these are articles a lot of the time get their news from memes like memes about bitcoin

rather than the facts about bitcoin ultimately though hasn't really stopped mining I mean mining's about 286 x the hash is so down from 350 or something which is still 26 is so extremely high but the bitcoin difficulty at the moment is 43 trillion which is up from 27 trillion this on this day last year so you can see that the mining is still going ahead and

there's a lot of money going ahead so all you're going to do is drive away business from from the US and it all those miners will pop up somewhere else so I don't know it just seems it just seems silly really to to to to shut down an industry like this which is which is growing so fast and it's actually proving it's worth right I mean

we're seeing even with with Paul Krugman that that was commenting on them on on I think I may have skipped an article but yeah this proving as well the reason why we need it is because it's decentralized p2p like money you know and with with with a bank failing or bank going down you're not going to lose you know you're not going to lose your money

you're only lose your money if you're if you're sat on an exchange that goes down if you're holding your own private keys obviously bit the price of bitcoin fluctuates but you don't lose the bitcoin if you have one bitcoin and 10 exchanges go down you're still holding one bitcoin which is a really woke idea I guess and we've talked about how the existing banking system is

obviously just such a giant right there's giant bank offices everywhere they're fillers of executives there's tellers there's ATMs there's a you know armored cars on the street and whenever the banking industry sponsors something like Bank of America arena no one says anything but when the crypto arena tries to sponsor something they get all upset about it so it does seem again like a double standard like

they're not reading the study that the I think is bit finnex or one of the large exchanges put out a study and they study it and they're like yeah the existing banking system uses more than Ireland right the existing banking system and all the trucks uses more than Portugal whatever the country is Gabriel Deamore I think it's bit max that did it I'm not exactly that

sounds that sounds more correct I didn't think mine was correct but yeah bit max look it up there's a study it has the information there you're not just making this up but yes bitcoin doesn't use that much energy right now but it could use more in the future I don't think again as Gabriel said you can't advertise that bitcoin will destroy society so it's like people's

like oh well they didn't include the society destroying feature or the you know flipping it upside down like a judo move or whatever you want to call it and although I don't like to buy into the you know old man can't govern thing it does have a bit of the like you kids and your technology I'm going to tax you directly old man yells at cloud

feelings so that's not a great feeling and that happens sometimes Josh Moussa gala what do you think about the attempt to tax the mining industry as well as like Gabriel said the aspirational raises for capital gains and other things which won't happen but freaked people out yeah I mean I really hope it doesn't happen but that's what governments do governments tax they pay more so it's

it's not surprising but the thing is the financial industries you know which which crypto bitcoin is part of you know crypto it's part of the new financial industry and it's a very very it's very used to moving to better jurisdictions in terms of an industry so it's manufacturing actually which would also be mining would be kind of a in that sort of crossover where you're you

know commoditizing a lot of vast amounts of one resources one resource so so all that's going to happen is that mining will move out of America and go somewhere else just like i did with China they just packed up and move somewhere else no one's gonna stick around where you get an overzealous thief constantly taking from you and and diminishing your returns. it's just that it

doesn't make any sense so I don't think this will pass anyway I'm going to go anywhere. like the panelists have said but yeah it's a treasious this sort of rhetoric is a treasious and yeah this kind of environmentalist thing that we've hearing we've been hearing for ages we knew it we knew it that when a theory and move to proof of stake that we'd be getting

more and more attacks on Bitcoin in terms of everyone pretending that it's so that it's going to boil the oceans and kill all the whales so it is what it is Bitcoin still going to mine a block every 10 minutes and it doesn't care it doesn't care about any of this all all that will happen is people will move offshore. it does seem like we see

a familiar Bitcoin and media narrative where they say proof of work is just the same as proof of stake when really at a security perspective we're getting more security with proof of work so we are getting what we pay for proof of stake seems to centralize in most applications although Ethereum didn't interesting thing by spreading the funds out first then switching to proof of stake so

maybe they avoid centralization or they hold it off longer. Martine Wishmare what do you think about these proof of work proof of stake? Yeah, the Biden administration taxing mining. Yeah at the moment I read the article I was like yeah okay Boomer because he obviously doesn't realize mining move will move elsewhere. It's not that bad you know here in the over in the here in the

Netherlands I'm in Portugal right now but in the Netherlands we plant a lot of veggies in greenhouses. Traditionally we've been using gas cheap Russian gas but since the pipeline blew up prices went through the moon so there's some clever youngsters that use Bitcoin miners they place them in the greenhouses and without any extra while they put them in a box but without any further like equipment

they just blow the hot air into the space so you know they get the tomatoes nice and warm at temperature while at the same time they're mining and they're not going to be able to do that. They're mining Bitcoin so what are you going to do are you going to charge them extra or charge the electricity extra this like not going to work you know in

the future we'll just we'll just create haters homes I'm space haters that mine Bitcoin will they text that because it does mining or I will heaters be text I don't know I think it's ridiculous. It's Gabriel said it will probably never pass but this will probably make it popular you know when are the new elections in the in the US. Any time soon maybe it's just

to get some photos in or something you know that I don't really don't know I don't keep track of 20 months. 20 months. Oh okay. It's has come up with some better stories. But no I wouldn't worry about it too much we've seen this show many times. It's like we are going to text those big coiners but no you know money is like water it just

flows where you know where it's well treated and goes for the miners you know if they're not nice to the miners the miners will pack up shop and they go elsewhere. As we saw in the previous so what Bitcoin expo in Miami last year they had the huge sort of containers where you could like get them prefitted with miners the hooks were already there you just

load them on to a truck and you take them elsewhere and wherever there's cheap and plenty full power just plug them in and it's so yeah I don't think it's the bad for the environment either. I've seen initiatives where because like in the Netherlands we have a lot of overproduction of solar panels and we have a really old network grid which is struggling to handle all

the power or that's been generated by our solar panels so on a sunny day even though it's hardly ever sunny on in the Netherlands but if it's a sunny day then they have to switch off the sun solar panels to prevent a grid from being overloaded. So some of the guys met at the Bitcoin meetup there what they do is they use these containers full of

miners to have a flexibility and points where there's congestion in the network whether it's at some times it's just way way over capacity and I can't get rid of it. Instead of just like shutting down the solar panels they just consume the electricity to mine Bitcoin and I think it allows for flexibility. Because the energy is money and you really turn it into a different sort

of money and until you know you you need it for something else and then you switch it over again. So I think it's just thinking that you can just text those Bitcoin miners is it's not showing that he understands it or anything it's just like the will text those miners you know like yeah okay boomer bye. I don't know, don't worry about it. No I could

go on this for hours. It's like something maybe it really angry. It's like don't you see it but now don't know it's no points. We've already won this race. It's my opinion. Josh Wishigala everyone's against it lining up. No, we're not. Martin Wishmare is it not happening. Nothing this lifetime. Yeah I don't think it's happening either but again it is aspirational and everyone can make fun

of me in the comments. It's the Democrats that are trying to do it. So there you go. Moving on check out worldcryptonetwork.com where you can click on the left side on shows. Then click on the various hosts of the shows just click on hosts and you can see all the episodes with Gabriel Devine going back to Bitcoin group number 85 on January 30th 2016 look at

this you can scroll through some even have Gabriel in the thumbnail. What's the luck on that. So check it out we've got at least the tagged ones we have 44 episodes with Gabriel Devine. So welcome again to the show Gabriel to the show moving on to issue three New York attorney general sues Q coin a Bitcoin exchange that they claim is a security and commodities exchange

and they claim that Ethereum is a security because of the switch to proof of stake. Ethereum now promotes itself and they've declared that that means you're a security Dan Eve. What do you think about the exciting actions coming out of New York state which we've known for years is a hotbed for Bitcoin. So we've got a coin technology and activity. Well it's incredible. So I mean

because I just got an email from Coinbase saying an update on staking with Coinbase talking about how they they're they're they're slippery soldiers and that we don't actually. We don't actually state the rewards. We just use the protocol the protocol does that part. So where the regulatory attacks are definitely getting them more. We're working over hot calls right now. I mean we've seen this before where

they the economy what sort of. What place what government entity it was that said that Ethereum was actually most of the mining was done in your staking. Sorry was done in the US and therefore it should be classes of security and under US law. So it seems like they're really raining in right now and trying to. And trying to assert their power maybe before the mat

you know the next big leg up and the next big post harvining pump. So. It's positive for Bitcoin of course that Genselow has kind of said that there's big coin is the only the only kind of real cryptocurrency that's not a security. It seems to be still treading water. But I kind of I just don't see how they're. They could how I could put too much

pressure on it. I mean I know it is you know it it it came from an ICO ultimately. But it kind of is making steps towards decentralization. Obviously it's using proof of stake. But maybe there's just a lot more influence coming in. There's a lot of it's in there a lot of Ethereum tokens from the original sale that are being opened up. Maybe some of those

are being. What's the word you know set aside for some. Donations maybe to help regulate. Obviously not not in New York. New York's been historically very strict with Bitcoin you know with you know. Shalees shem down for essentially for money laundering practices back in what 2016 2017 and the bit license. So it seems I thought what I thought that New York would be kind of a

bit of a hub for finance right it's been a treat. It's a traditional finance hub for. For for for tradify so why wouldn't it be for for for cryptocurrency. But maybe it's the influence there right that that a lot of trad fight and the truth companies are essentially you know. Convincing the AG to go after crypto to go after crypto companies because it's it's taken a

bite out of their pie. But ultimately. Whether Ethereum does get cast as a as a security or not it's it's still going to be growing or. So if you're around the rest of the world and who knows what what if the what if the staking just gets moved abroad right if if they say right well the majority is staked in in the US then. Why not

just like a company up elsewhere and move the fund out and actually technically. Stake from from that side I know there's plenty of things that they could do to it to avoid that it just seems like it's all. And so it's not a lot of things that are more and more every day it's not showing signs of of slowing down other than prices in terms of

network. You know network adoption and and users they're growing you know it's growing massively obviously you have peaks and troughs. But it's not an industry that's just a you know there's built on. DeFi model or not so yeah it's it's a shame to see it's a shame to see. Such a big international hub stifling innovation like that it's almost like I don't know yeah I think

it's definitely coordinated we're in regulation season. It is interesting I think Dan you you think New York as a financial hub would be a home to all these things and innovating but instead I think that everyone's agree on this panel they're going to say it's regulatory capture and the existing players are using their position to try to keep other players out. As for the Ethereum argument

it seems to me that Ethereum was more of a security when it was launched by a group of people who gave themselves pre-mined currency stock interest in its success and then went on to pump and proceed to succeed actually as it turned out with their currency. This new system where it's a proof of stake and a random group of people then benefit doesn't seem to match

the definition in the category as well. And I feel that they're kind of stretching here they have an old category much like you'd have something for you know drug proliferation and you say now we're going to use that against MP3s because the music pirates are the same as the drug pirates and here you've got an old category month for securities and companies and you're going to

action against Q coin and Ethereum being perhaps a security? Yeah it's really what what I find fascinating is that regulation might be the thing that decentralized is proof of stake because you don't need these centralized parties to stake you don't need coin base you don't need to coin it's just that you have your coin. coins there and they have a little switch that says stake this

and earn an APY so yeah it's just another reason to keep your coins on an on an exchange if you're if you're mainstream like that but you know these sort of regulations that put these things in the way might just make people because at the end of the day these protocols you can stake Ethereum without any of this you just go and stake it using the

blockchain and and so yeah I maybe this is what actually decentralizes proof of stake more you know some would say it's still decentralized because you know I don't fully buy that proof of stake is you know centralized and and proof of work isn't because proof of work is also it can also be centralized you know you see it you see it constantly crawling up towards 30%

on one pool 40% on one pool even if you're not going to be able to do that. Then you can get close and people start you know shouting even that stops happening now like back in the day people used to scream and shout from the content forums when the mining got close to 50% and then they would pull it out with proof of stake as well

with you know all of this and people banning and I've said this I was show before so excuse me for the listeners at here week on week but you know it's it's harder to see a proof of stake. So if they do tax capital games taxes or anything like that or if they tax mining hey maybe you just switch to proof of stake because or if

you just make it totally legal like they did in China I'm sure there's proof of stake mining going on in China and they wouldn't know because it looks like any other packet. Yeah, I think this is a really really interesting time though where you have multiple technologies and not the end of day that's what people that are early in Bitcoin were you know technologists enthusiastic about

the technology, enthusiastic about the being something against the fractional reserve system and and so yeah I'm I'll be fascinated to see what happens now with with proof of stake. I think it's a really really interesting thing humans can label anything anything you know this is the thing they if a cop doesn't like you as I haven't a bad day they can circle your car and find

something wrong with it and and this is exactly what the lawmakers are doing now with with these crypto so where I think Bitcoin and Ethereum and the crowds need to join together as one industry to to fight this nonsense because it's it's the whole divided conquer thing where Bitcoin is like yeah good it is security get them you know and and I think that's a really

not a good way to go we we just like the Bitcoin just like Bitcoin picked on gold or gold gold picked on Bitcoin as say who's the common enemy here fractional reserve banking it's fiat Bitcoin gold Ethereum we're all in this together I believe and and that is that we we're building cool technology that bypasses old school legacy infrastructure and also creates a lot of releases

a lot of inefficiencies in a lot of spaces so we got to just keep on doing that because the capital will flow wherever there's less inefficiency yeah. Artin Wishmare it says in the article that it aims to block access to the exchange in New York by forcing Q coin to geofence its website based on IP addresses and GPS locations this is good for the people of

New York right yeah that was Binance to it totally doesn't work but that's just silly it doesn't even work for like HBO and Netflix or stuff that try to geofence it. It only drugs we're gonna get you now we couldn't get you with the content stuff but we're gonna get you with the Bitcoin and the banking yes I couldn't be bothered really if they try to

get rid of it a Q coin is not an exchange I would use especially not after they since being hacked of course I try to attack them but yeah Ethereum you know Josh being the Ethereum fanboy here said we have to stick together I say Ethereum is a shit coin you know I really don't care about Ethereum it's it's it's it's it's a pre-mine scam it's

overly complex it doesn't perform at all if you find any application that works on it it only works for a short while because after the next upgrade your contract is dead and needs needs renewed I'm like I'm like not in crypto or Ethereum or platforms building the world's computer I don't care about it I care about some money and that's Bitcoin and the rest is just

like it's like you know so yes regulate Bitcoin sorry regulate Ethereum get rid of it and for the viewers at home who have a little bit of Ethereum sell it all and buy Bitcoin while the price is low because then price will go up and we'll all be happy everyone knows the only reason to use Ethereum is to use Kerio cards the amazing 2017 NFT collection

you can do that on Bitcoin through nowadays well I'm sure they'll convert it over Gabriel Devon what do you think about the New York Attorney suing Q coin and saying Ethereum is a security you know Martina you actually touched on the first point that I wanted to talk about which was you know quite disappointing to hear from Joshua's mouth directly which is a lot of deflection

that I hear from crypto bros that oh big coiners are so you know they're betraying their cypherpunk roots and and cheering on government regulators to destroy something and we should always be in this together because we all have the same aim that is I completely agree with Martina that's total hogwash and that's also it's a it's a deflect the reason I say deflection is because any

Bitcoiners with a brain yes idiots on Twitter and who you know whatever a non-accounts and you know what do you call them script kitties and 14 year olds oh no Joshua couldn't handle the heat I'm just kidding he's probably just blowing his nose but he was laughing before before but so you know this is not the case at all Bitcoiners with a brain are merely warning

and then afterward saying I told you so what didn't you listen to me this is what happens when you are dumb play stupid games win stupid prizes this is not oh I'm cheering on the regulators we Bitcoiners we real big corners with a brain are sitting back with our popcorn and I remember what the snack of choices for that sitting back with our popcorn watching all

the centralized players fight it out with these ridiculous garbage oh we're decentralized even though we have a giant foundation in Switzerland and have a years long history of promoting this and saying specifically from the start oh you can expect gains from holding our you know unregistered security and on the other side you have these idiotic regulators who don't know the first thing about technology saying as

their remedy to keep your residence from using the services to use geolocation and and IP banding which is you know takes about one second to get around so easily so it's just we're just sitting back watching all these centralized players fight it out and basically Bitcoin's entire raison d'etre is censorship resistant so whether it's whether the government considers you the security whether you're using proof of

work and you're and you're basing you know your your issue you're pre mining you know you're issuing yourself 70% of the supply from the start or you're using proof of stake schemes you know in order to to um give the insiders even more advantage doesn't really matter the point is censorship resistance if somebody else can come and smash your project it ain't decentralized and it ain't

gonna survive so we're just here with our popcorn watching LaMark and his theories play out in front of our eyes Bitcoin doesn't care. It's also a shame if your project is based on Amazon web services Josh Lugala I want to give you a chance to respond to Gabriel here you kind of called you out good. No it's good I mean this is what what I love

about this show is that you get different viewpoints and I think at the end of the day you know whether someone that that's a different topic whether someone calls themselves decentralized and and isn't and also what you know where's that lion where where's where's that lion in that greatness of course Bitcoin is ultimately decentralized that's wonderful um but uh we all know that these lawmakers aren't

just going after uh the the you know those players they're going after anything to do with Bitcoin or crypto um all of it and and so yeah I mean I uh I just think there's a divide and conquer thing happening here and it's always happened and I saw it mainly with the gold industry in the Bitcoin industry where you know Peter Schiff was yelling um at

at the clouds and then you've got um you know set Barry Silver telling everybody to drop gold when really the real enemy was fear all along and so um no no no no no no no no no and I think golden to people's players could have been really strong allies um along the way um they because they understand what we're fighting uh they've been there a

lot longer than us and they might be older than us so they might have more contacts and more more reach into into places but um yeah at the end of the day it doesn't really matter where you're sitting this um the whole NFT space also blew out to the mainstream like I never never imagined that art would have brought in so many new people of course

NFTs are totally centralized you can even change them like like they're ridiculous but at the same time it's brought in a whole bunch of people that are able to um able to sort of think about what we're doing and and have discussions about money and open up their minds by by looking at this strange picture of a frog um and and being able to sell it

on different exchanges because they have the token um yeah so I do feel like like the industry is more and more split which is sad because uh we all need to put together and say hey we love this we love this industry we love the stuff that's happening yeah some of it's shit yeah some of it's good yeah some of it's less decentralized yeah some of

it's more decentralized but at the end of the day screw these people that are trying to rain on this parade no you're painting me in a way as a bit coin maximalist but I'm not I'm just a shit coin minimalist and I really don't like all these all this I just noise around Bitcoin I mean for me there's Bitcoin because it has a use case all

the other things they don't they don't have a use case I mean okay people might want to like post pictures JPEGs of blockchain but that doesn't that doesn't make give it a use case or justify the highest prices I mean it's sound money that created Bitcoin that's why Bitcoin is there and I think it it works and and you know I don't need bananas on the

blockchain or my being coffee beans counted on the blockchain I did so no you know you might need it would be useful to have ticketing for instance where you could have tickets for concerts and then there could be a secondary market concerts I'm too small by the I'm closer to an artificial hip than a dance floor I'm not going to a concert I don't I don't

need that and if you you might as well do that on a central database in in many cases yeah but then you can't then you can't rate like that then you can't have true uh you know the good thing about not having an on a central database a they they get hacked but B you have the ability to have anybody host a marketplace for these tickets

you know I mean I'm just saying that there's there are other use cases and they're not all shit you know I really like it's just it's really like the fact that you could lock up funds without trusting Celsius in in the first month okay you know that that that's really useful I think it's I think it's still there's still risks involved it's not risk free but

I'd rather trust code than than Celsius or or block fire whatever they were called um to lock up funds and borrow borrow against them I I just don't buy the fact that everything else is shit and useless as well yeah ultimately if something has a use case for for someone else it may not have a use case for you and I've never viewed Ethereum is like

there's as money I've never viewed it as money I've viewed it as like credits on a system to do weird funny DeFi stuff and you know throw monkey JPEGs and shit like that it's not like it's not encroaching or what I believe is Bitcoin has sell money in replacing the fiat system it's just something that does not have something else so yeah I don't work I

don't work I don't work for the SEC getting getting backhanders but but not ultimately just because you know it's like that that that's old saying one man's trash is another man's treasure and and obviously people see some of the use cases of Ethereum is trash and some other people see it as useful but what is undeniable is that it's an ecosystem that has many many many

users and is growing very rapidly so you know it's not something I mean you could still say that people are purely speculating but then there's the argument on Bitcoin you're only holding Bitcoin because you're speculating you know you could just use Fiat you know it has these other benefits that you know that I find attractive that I don't find attractive on Bitcoin it doesn't mean that

that it was you know Ethereum wasn't born out of crazy ICO like some of the other you know main shit coin scams that have been out there but yeah I find it it does have uses I think the D5 things quite interesting that you can you can actually you know loan against your your Bitcoin without using a centralized server with the Ethereum obviously is wrapped Bitcoin

so you've got to rely on developers and blah blah blah so you know they have trusted third party to a certain extent but it's all smart contracts that can be audited and so yeah that to me that has a use a use it may not having use to other people they may not have the same level of trust but it's also the same as the you

know Bitcoin is the most insanely secure network on earth but some people aren't really that bothered about the security you know maybe security is an 8 out of 10 preference for them rather than a 10 out of 10 preference so that's why they would use Ethereum yeah I don't know it's it's I think I think ultimately the end goal is to its fear is bad and

regulation is bad so I kind of agree with Joseph it should be fighting on the same side while still having indifference isn't saying well Ethereum's crap compared to Bitcoin yeah just three minutes say regulation can be bad not is you know at the end of the day there's a country there's a bunch of society with rules that they want but they could be terrible rules to

control and usually through regulatory capture by the legacy system that that is the dominant one holding the new system back which is about to disrupt it yeah I always thought that it would have made more sense if they sold the gas at like a centralized website for like a hundred dollars at gas the idea that people were investing on this idea that in the future I'm

going to need to do that. I need to run a whole bunch of smart contracts on buying my smart contract fuel early and then it turned out in the future I needed to run a bunch of smart contracts and I should have bought more smart contract fuel so it doesn't always work out the way you think you're going to see it sometimes you know let's the

same with Bitcoin mining oh we've got to buy Bitcoin miners because in the future Bitcoin is going to be worth more and then all it didn't happen I should have just bought Bitcoin. Let's see Gabriel did you have a more on this issue or done for now. No I actually do have one final thought or a thought that came to mind and that is Hermann Hopet.

I'm not you know extremely fluent in Austrian economic theory and the work's a specific figures in that field but Hopet is well known in the Bitcoin space for his contention. That money converges over time to the very best good for the purpose of money at the exclusion of all others and the implication for the for Bitcoin and these tokens that are issued by other parties and

companies and also in you know another anonymous figures online whoever. The issue is that there is a base function that exists where the cryptocurrency if you want to call it that is created in the case of Bitcoin you use electric energy hardware and you know human beings to set it up along with software and electric energy is about as base as you can get in meet

space. And I used to think that there could someday be different or not competing but it would separate digital commodities after the creation of the first one Bitcoin. But now I am very skeptical of that opinion I don't think there will ever be a need or a success of any other digital commodity other than Bitcoin because there is no more base. Scares asset in the universe

than energy. So we've got this base layer of tokens created using the scarce electrical energy that is available to human beings. That I'm sure that that amount will increase a lot this century as other forms of energy production come online but nevertheless there is no more base layer maybe consciousness you could say. But at that point we no longer have any need of money perhaps. So

what that implies is that all of these other use cases that Dan and Joshua are discussing will be built on top of Bitcoin. For example you've got synonym creating systems for token production on lightning. You've got Omni and other systems for colored Bitcoins. All of the functions that you got on top of Bitcoin. So what the decentralized device are talking about can quite easily be created,

if you don't want to have a centralized database like for tickets, I think that the incentives don't mind up for the venues to use decentralized tickets. But for example all of that can be done with lightning milititoshis. So I really have come over the last nine years have come to consider Altcoins as a tool for tech technology. Primarily frauds and then a few experiments all of

which will fail in the face of the base layer of the of you know, Adams in our physical reality, which is electrical energy or any type of energy, but you know we tend to use electricity because that's how our hardware works. There's no layer under that. So I think that or you know whether you use oil electricity, whatever the source. There isn't a layer there isn't

another way. There's a layer under that so there won't be another digital commodity to create a money out of that can be used as a value store value, unit of account and medium of exchange. So I think all these other ones will attack each other attack and this is why I very much disagree with Joshua's characterization of the crypto and finance and Bitcoin all being in

the same space. No Bitcoin is a new Bitcoin. It's new finance. Everything else is old finance, including Altcoins. That's how I see it. And it's not a matter of dividing conquer because Bitcoin is the one who's going to be dividing and conquering the other side. It doesn't work toward Bitcoin because Bitcoin is the decentralized one. Yeah, but there's certain things I remember. But what we're building.

Yeah, it's I do like it. It's a good point. But at the same time I cannot build what I'm wanting to build. I cannot build it. I can't build it on Bitcoin. I can build it on maybe a liquid, but that's not Bitcoin. That's a side chain. I can build it some I just I can build on a RSC. Oh, it's getting you know it's getting

anchored to Bitcoin, but it's not Bitcoin. So I disagree with you. I cannot build. I've looked man. I wanted to build it on Bitcoin, but I can't. It doesn't it doesn't the the opportune code so let me. So yeah, yeah, you'll yeah. In the meantime, yeah, you'll be using these experiments, but in 10, 15 years, then you'll be using Bitcoin. Yeah. Very well said, gave Gabriel

good stuff. And it's also so hard to argue with Joshua who has the best background in the world here. The the old farmer on the edge of the prairie with the sun slowly rising over his face, given us the advice and so forth. So it's very hard. So good hat. I mean, it's like it's it's it's a shame to be, you know, on the other side

of the argument against a hat such as. Very yeah, it's a color. Yeah. Well, we're going to move on to a very quickly issue for issue for Bitcoin Twitter, Taunt's Paul Krigman over traditional finance, Troubles Paul Krigman's been a critic of Bitcoin for years. He said the internet would be just about as useful as a fax machine. And now he's having trouble with Venmo and like

any other celebrity he's taken to Twitter to complain about Venmo. Krigman says too busy to tweet, but not to vent. I've been using Venmo for years, but now it won't allow me to make payments. I spent a long time in chat with representatives and they told me they can't explain why or fix it. The software has taken control to which bit corners like Michael sailor responded

with the three word phrase. Bitcoin fixes this. Others quoted Paul Krigman's own words back to him and said. Cryptocurrency lets you make electronics transactions, but so do bank accounts debit cards, PayPal, Venmo, etc. All these methods involve using a trusted third party. But unless you're buying drugs, assassinations, etc. That's not a big deal. And Nourage asked him Paul Krigman, were you trying to buy drugs or

assassinations. So just a fun little story about Paul Krigman and the reason for cryptocurrency when he can't use his Venmo account on Martn Wishmeyer. What do you think about these poor troubles for Paul? And maybe he tried Bitcoin. It's a bit sad. We've been trolling Paul for years. I mean, really for years. That way, way back when I started with my first eight years, even before

that, any mentioned this like Bitcoin will be just as it will be in relevance or it's a Ponzi scheme or whatever. And I replied Bitcoin hit the 10 dollar market at a time. So I replied that one fantasy coin is worth 10 times your real currency. What does it say about your economy? Of course, we've been trolling in from you for years. And we should we

should ignore him, especially, you know, if you have problems with your heart, it's just not good. But you like it's sometimes just fun. Just like trolled all boomer. He's still Twitter thinks he's like super hip and all. And yes, he was famous at one point. Because he I don't know, want a Nobel Prize or something. I don't know. He was he was famous for something, but

he's irrelevant nowadays. Good luck with your Venmo account, bro. I mean, no. Also, as it notes in the article, Krigman's attempt to get tech support from Twitter does succeed because of his celebrity status. But the rest of us don't have that celebrity status. We can't just complain to Twitter whenever our account breaks. We'd be sent, you know, shit out of luck. Gabriel D. Von, what do

you think about Paul Krugman's troubles with Twitter? And do you want me to bring this image up? Yeah, this is my comment. All right. Here we go. We got Paul Krugman wearing a Trumpi cat shirt. Looks like he might be working out. So trouble for Paul. Dan Eve, Paul Krugman's having trouble with his Venmo. What do you think? Yeah, it happens through the old banking favorites,

doesn't it? You're height on Bitcoin. Wasn't it Peter Schiff while I've like a year or so ago, a couple years ago, had had problems. And everyone was like, well, you could have just had Bitcoin. And then you wouldn't have been having these problems right now. So I don't know any bank that's got a record for like a 99.99% upgrade, but certainly none of the banks that

I'm banked with. So it's just another old schooler who just doesn't see the value in Bitcoin. It's not an analogy that many people like, but obviously, you know, the same kind of argument of, I don't see a use case of Ethereum. I don't see a UK case of Bitcoin. Someone's going to, someone wants to use it and we'll use it. But he's just stuck in the

old school world where he obviously can't see anything good about Bitcoin. And it doesn't have any value and blah, blah, blah. There's two lips and all the rest of the bad things that all old men yelling and clowns say. So it sucks. If you're a normie because you can't just treat your four and a half million or how many is followers to get up, you know,

hardcore support. Like, what's that do? From, who's that got Charles Hodgkin? Is it hard to Charles when he tweeted support? And then they said, Oh, can you please raise a ticket? And he said, do show. No, I'm not. That was brilliant. So yeah, we're, us normies, we don't have the same power to yield at these banks. So the difference is with Bitcoin is that everyone has

the same right to use the network as anyone else. And there is no distinction between a VIP on Bitcoin and a non VIP where all users were all people in it together. And that's the. The main thing about Bitcoin and why being permissionless is such a good thing. I think shift was having trouble with his wire transfers. And it was another key point where you're like,

why not just use Bitcoin. It's so easy. You could, you know, pay people every month. It's so easy. And then whenever anyone describes wire transfers, they're always like, I send it somewhere. I don't know what happens. I wait a couple hours. Something else happens. Usually it goes through and it's all fun. Wasn't this when his bank was accused of fraud and money laundering? There was something

really old with his bank. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's all twisted all the time. But I think he's dodgy as ferk. It's the same as Kruidman. Like, you won't have any problems unless you're buying drugs or assassinations. Like, they never make a, you know, casual mistake or get an address wrong and put you in the penalty box. That never happens. Joshua, Shagala, what do you think

about this big story? Kruidman's having trouble with his Venmo. Well, economists are famous for. Basically being really good at predicting the past and not the future. But they're, they're really good at explaining at nauseam how their future predictions were wrong. And why? So let's see if Paul actually comes up with maybe a reason why he was wrong. I doubt it. Well, you know what they always

say, if you can find five economists who are having trouble with their Twitter account or their Venmo account, you can have five. And then you can find five economists who's Venmo accounts work just fine. It just seems to work out that way. Well, we're running out of time. So we're going to move on to predictions or story of the week. Martina, are you ready with a

prediction or story of the week? Go ahead. I think it will be like lots of things to do. I don't think there will be like a volcano with love at this year, but it will be a great fun. It will be three days, not four days this year. That don't think it will be a music festival, but it will be really good fun. Miami is nice

place. It's sunny. The mosquitoes love it. We love it too. And we have, we'll have a great time there. So, you know, if you're, if you're coming over to Bitcoin 2023, we have to meet up and just party like there's no tomorrow, Miami is going to be really good. Unfortunately, I think the only dead mal coming this year will be actual dead mice. Gabriel D. Vaughan

prediction or story of the week. Yeah, I have a prediction. I think that we're going to see quite a bit more of the discourse. The closure of corruption, fraud, all sorts of crazy stuff is going to be heating up a lot more. You're seeing the narratives of the last three years of authoritarianism, lies, coordinated medical, Nuremberg type stuff. And I, I don't think the trials will

happen until the second half of the decade, but yeah, you're seeing, you're seeing the narratives crack all over the place. And I think that's kind of part of what is fueling the assumption of a banking crisis. Like I was listening to a, you know, a very woo, woo out there guy today, Cliff High, who's really fun with his crazy ideas, but his prediction is a terrible

track record of predictions, especially financial. It's like the opposite of Ansel Lindner. But it is interesting to see how his social predictions tend to be really dead on. And I think that there will be a spill over into finance. And I think one thing you can count on over this next decade, if the, as we were discussing in the pre show, the sudden emergence of fun,

totally functional, really powerful chatbot AIs. If that's taught us anything is that, you know, expect an expected guys and gals. Dan Eve prediction or story of the week. Go ahead. We predict that. Hmm, hmm, what are we going to say? I think, I think actually that, that, that, that, because we're in regulation season and New York stepping out, I think we're going to see, surely. We're

going to see another state stepping out and saying we need to tax Bitcoin mining. Another green type state like California. They're kind of, they're kind of a very green type state, surely they, they have interest in the, in the sort of green markets. So, I think we're soon going to see. We're going to see some, some, some other restrictions maybe placed on, on, on, on Bitcoin

mining from another US state. You think they'd be able to learn from Star Wars, like the rest of us when he said, the more you tighten your grip, talking, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. Joshua, should go a prediction or story of the week, go ahead. Uh, story of the week is I'm just a bulls deep and zero knowledge proof stuff. Just looking

at zero knowledge proof. So I just find them fascinating. I find them really interesting. Um, and, uh, yeah, I agree with, uh, with Gabriel that there's, uh, that stuff's stuff's going to, that, that there's a whole bunch of stuff that's cracking and starting to break open and, um, and narratives changing, but, uh, you have. Yeah. Exactly. Joshua, you keep it up for any, any wall of

bees or any koalas or kangaroos that might be popping out of that out back there. Yeah. We saw some, uh, some, some rap things earlier on. Oh my, oh my, rabbits. Well, keep it up. But thanks again for everybody for tuning in. Be sure to give us a thumbs up down below. Push subscribe. Uh, check out worldcrypto network.com. We've got lots more episodes like this. And

until next time, bye bye