The Bitcoin Group #347 - Coinbase Layer 2 - Crypto

base launches layer two blockchain base to provide on ramp for Ethereum, Solana and others coin bases built a new second layer for scaling and other D apps or distributed apps built on top of optimism and with no plans to issue a network token. Many have seen this as positive for Ethereum and other altcoins and surprising for coin base who used to be Bitcoin only. Josh Gala,

what do you think about coin bases latest offering base that will allow you to do layer two D apps on coin base? Yeah, I don't know what to think about it. First of all, it's a bit weird. The centralized unit is building so called decentralized thing. It's also weird that it's called base when it's layer two. Maybe base sounds like layer one. But, but also. Yeah,

it's it. What if, you know, buy an answer's got by an smart chain and people use it. And they say it's decentralized because they've got all these validators that are out there and coin and finance doesn't have control of them. Maybe, maybe. So, I think that's why the coin base will do that as well. I don't know what the security mechanism is of it. But the

thing is with optimism is it's just for me, it's a stop gap in the scaling solution for Ethereum. It's not really a good scaling solution because you have to wait like seven days for for those that don't know how optimistic roll up works basically. It assumes that it's an up that ever has a good actor, which is a good actor. It's just first of all a

weird thing to do. But if there's a bad actor that lets a bad transaction through. As one of the validators, then you've got seven days or the whole community's got seven days to basically say, uh, that was a bad, that that was a good transaction. And then that validated gets gets their deposit slashed for being for not for not doing a right thing. So, but that

means every time you want. Being funds back to the base layer, you have to wait seven days. So, it's really a terrible scaling solution. It's not, it's not fast. It's horrible. Whereas some of the zero knowledge proof stuff that's coming out is instant. And on Ethereum, you can talk to layer two, like a contract smart contract on layer one can actually talk to layer two. Because

it's so real time. Plus you got the privacy stuff. I just, I just think it's weird that coin base chose to use optimistic roll up. Technology for their circle base. When they could have been running, uh, should have been research and developing zero knowledge proof stuff, which is just far better. I just feel bad for coin base at this point. John Schmension, Binance smart chain, which

of course has its own token. The whole point of doing these things seem to be having your own token that you can sell at a low price. And then it goes to a high price. And then you can dump it on people. Or you can just buy it. Or you get funds and fees every time people use your smart token. I'm sure they're going to charge

fees on this. And they'll make money somehow. But it just seems like they're always playing catch up. They're always playing follow the leader. And although they tried to make this a big announcement on two 23 23. It didn't really take off that much. And I don't know if it's going to work. I also wonder about running distributed apps on a centralized service like coin basis coin

base now responsible for every. Transaction that goes through if you're running a drug website through this layer two is coin base now running a drug website through this layer to in the articles. They said that they will gradually and responsibly make it distributed. I don't know what that means. So I have to see Dan arc more on coin base layer two. Dan Eve. Well, I thought

Dan, actually a really cool name. Now I'm going to go and change it by. I'm going to be like the libertarians. Everyone's name will be Freeman, all of a sudden. Yeah. So well, I think this very confident self confident of coin base right because they're they're they're constantly having these regulatory battles being kind of the biggest the biggest US exchange. So for them to go and

do something like this is is actually quite busy right it's they're not creating their own token. But as as you pointed out like what happens with when an app does an agniferious right to they you know they're going to be res are they responsible for that. What point does is the tipping point of decentralization where they wouldn't be responsible for it. You know there's kind of

lots of questions. I think that then that need to be answered from a regulatory standpoint because I think they're going to get a lot of a lot more breathing down their neck right now. And this is you know using the theorem. I mean, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do that. OAP sounds got you know optimistic roll up sound quite cool. Not

as cool as Josh putting out as zero knowledge proofs. And there's also ZK roll ups as well that where there's a few projects doing ZK. ZK roll ups. But why if you're using Ethereum and you're saying right where you're using Ethereum because of security. Then why not use Bitcoin for the security why not have like a you know federated side chain on Bitcoin, which is much

more secure. Maybe it's because they're kind of they have the same. I don't know. Fresher from from their investors about being like you know green environmentally friendly and now the shift of to Ethereum's proof of stake means that the coin base can be a zero carbon kind of company. Whereas if they did on Bitcoin, there would still be people moaning about. Holding whales and whatever whatever

else nonsense, but they're not gaining the best security of the most current work. But ultimately. It seems like something that it's quite risky for them. The fact that they are under under the SEC's nose all the time. But maybe maybe having not having a token will will help them come out unscathed. But I can definitely see the censorship thing being a problem in terms of DAPs.

You know, why would you run a want to run a a DAP on coin on the coin base coin base. If if it could you know it could be sensitive why wouldn't you run it on an actual decentralized platform. I agree, Dan, it almost seems like coin bases, you know, trying to get the regulators to come down on them. They're like, earn isn't illegal enough. Try

out our layer to DAPs and remember that the state. Yeah, they're going to get it. And remember that the United States said that all the Ethereum staking or 70 80% of it took place in the US. Therefore, the US owned and could regulate that network. The obvious question is where is this coin base base. Staking, mining, whatever it's going to be called these days. Where does

it exist and will the US directly regulate it. And remember that during the segwit and the scaling wars coin base was exclusively supporting set anti segwit larger blocks. Then they wanted Bitcoin to X with larger blocks. They never liked the Lightning Network. They still don't have it on their platform, which is amazing and disgusting. And just seems like they're kind of throwing another pie in Bitcoin's

face here. And I just wonder if we look at this at the end of the day and they don't make it even though they're on the stock market, even though they had all these advantages and why combinator and whatever will it be because they walked away from Bitcoin. Ben, what do you think about coin bases base. I mean, I guess it's for control right. I mean,

which is why they probably don't like Bitcoin because they couldn't control it when historically they are. They tried to enact some control. I'm not saying that anyone who wanted bigger blocks wanted control. I mean, I want a bigger blocks at the time. I didn't want control of Bitcoin. But to then turn away from Bitcoin because they didn't get that way, means that they were, you know,

had their nose part of drink because they didn't think they could control the thing. So there is a business like what's the incentive that either they need this thing to exist to make their business model work better. Like why are they investing in this thing? Like the need this thing to exist to make their business model work. And then the need to make it work better,

that's one possible reason and then the other possible reason is they just want control. Or to be able to enact control. And I suppose there's a third reason as well. We should always assume these big huge entities in our space. Having coerced by whatever government they reside in, particularly at a time now where all the stuff's coming to the surface more and more. And these governments

are going to try and enact some control. So we have to be very careful. Like people have to be very careful, which platforms they trust. And personally, I'm not going to trust some blockchain layer two, which is being created by a big company like Coinbase. It's just yeah, it's just a big company. So it sounds like an internet to me, like a Google machine for, because

for every reason what they're trying to do doesn't work or they just want more control. Both those reasons are bad. Every would just like the ZK stuff the way, but it's a little bit more complicated. And would be something which they could control. So why would they, why would they promote such a thing? According to the articles that I've read the reason that you would build

your distributed app on Coinbase is to get access to their millions of users and their hundreds of millions of dollars. So it almost seems like, once again, with the altcoins, we're going to be selling these to people without information, people that are on your platform already. And like we've seen in the past with Coinbase, they designed that education platform, where you can learn about the Ponzi

scheme before you invest in it. And it just seems like they're going to be taking their users through the car wash here. It's like, will they survive? And it's this beautiful like this like sushi, sushi, a little thing where it can bear belt, where it's going to move the little things by and you're like Bitcoin, Bitcoin cash, Coinbase, base, Ethereum, all these things keeps growing by

and it's like, who cannot buy these things and hold their Bitcoin? That's the challenge. And it seems like it's getting harder and harder for Coinbase users to survive that challenge. I think Benark's really touched on something very interesting there, as well as everyone here in the panel actually. But the, I am always suspicious of the government where a major company resides, a major company. Because there

is, it's just outright fact that whatever you want to call it, hate the term deep state because it's been co-opted. But basically, all the FBI's and CIA's, the dark side of the state, they want to make sure that if these financial products are a threat to national security, then what you want to do is make sure that you control that threat. And so, how do you

do that? Well, liquidity goes where liquidity is. So if you can have the layer two with the most liquidity, and this is one of the big problems of the layer two competition landscape, is that every new layer two that pops up, the liquidity gets spread between all the different layer two. So, and this is not good, especially for something like DEX, is if you want to

make a large transaction without slippage, on an automated market maker, you've got to go to the layer two with the most liquidity, so that doesn't happen. So, you go there and add your liquidity to that area. So more and more people will congregate around that layer two, similar to our beta max and VHS, you know, one out VHS, one out because they had, well, the liquidity

of the cassette tapes, of more of those tapes around. So, if you have the liquidity, then people will go to base, which is then owned by America as, well, you know, an American company in American state and controlled by that functionality and infrastructure. So, yeah, I think that that could be one of the reasons it could just be, hey, some techies get, you know, an hour

a week to build their own stuff. Some of them came up with this and they're like, I'll call let's release it. But, I think that's a good thing. I don't think so. I think anything that gets full release and press releases like this has been thought out and it fits into some sort of plan. It doesn't, it's not just, oh, let's just roll something out for

the, for the roles. Well, one, one good thing about this is that at least coin base is a relatively trusted company. According to what we've heard about FTX, they put all of their customers into the investing, lending, Alameda, whatever it was. Coinbase could do the same thing here converting all of their customers funds into base liquidity. But I believe we can trust them and they won't

do that. So at least that's one plus. Yeah. More on this issue. Moving on to the exit question, predict against the Bitcoin predictor ball, the baldest and true source of all Bitcoin wisdom who last week denied you of its wisdom. Josh Shagalla, well, the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower next week. I think we're kind of moved sideways for a little bit. So I'm going

to sit on the fence. Sideways of push, Dan, Eve, higher or lower? Well, I'm going to go higher. And as a great contract trader, that means that I'm going to hopefully be able to buy some cheaper Bitcoin next week when it's cheaper because I got it wrong again. I don't think it works if you predict against yourself while you're predicting. You're going to be getting against

yourself. But we can try that reverse psychology here. Ben, arc, higher or lower. I'm probably going to go higher, but I got this. I'm looking at it. So it would be my story of the week. But yeah, higher. Higher, Ben is picking higher. Here we are with the ball shaking it may cause bubbles. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? Cannot predict

now. The ball is with the holding once again. That's the way it goes. Sometimes there's just not an answer. Issue two, Bulgarian investors, investigators claim crypto queen was murdered in 2018. Rooza Inatova, who founded one coin and helped promote it on stage across the world, is allegedly at the bottom of the Ionian sea, being killed and murdered on a drug dealers yacht, cut up into pieces

and thrown overboard. Bonus, this was probably predicted by Martin Wismer on our shows who said, yep, she's dead. We've talked about one coin before. Remember one coin was promoted like a multi level marketing scam. They rented hotel rooms and conference centers. They went around and they talked to non Bitcoin people. They told them they had a better Bitcoin. They told them that they would double their

coins by November. And as Chris DeRose and Jonseth so bravely reported with hidden cameras and microphones. The guy said, I know it in my knower that one coin is going to the moon. Dan Eve, she promised she would double your coins allegedly. She and the scam itself stole as much as five billion dollars. Is this the end? Of one coin. Well, it wouldn't surprise me if

people still try to buy it now to be honest. Like, you know, there's so many people that would want to catch a falling knife. But it kind of sounds quite logical. But she really did disappear. It's all of the, you know, with the face of the earth. And you would have thought one one side there's the fact that she had potentially billions behind her. So she

could change her face, change her name and go completely. Incock Nito after that. And the other side obviously that they're saying that she was killed by a drug dealer and thrown off the boat. Maybe he didn't have his coins doubled and realized that he should have just bought Bitcoin and was a bit pissed off about that. But, you know, some people say it's just fake news

to throw them off the scent. But this wasn't kind of this isn't something that's just kind of come out of the blue. It's it was as a result of the fact that he was a real man. He was a result of like a policeman dying last year or being killed. And then the papers that he had statements, the he had showing that apparently saying that she

was she was thrown off. So, and also you think that the FBI would be a bit more well researched on the matter if that was the case because they didn't they only just put her on the wanted list a few years ago. So, you know, for four years or something after three, four years after she actually went missing. But recently as well, I think it was

this year that I had her ex boyfriend was sentenced to five years for money laundering. So, there's people around her that are kind of going down. But yeah, I don't I don't know. I think I'm kind of with Martina. I think that she probably rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way. I mean, when you scam that many people, then, then, you know, you're going

to have targets on your head. You're going to have crosshairs on your head. And, and, and if it's kind of, you know, if it's if you ripped off big drug dealers who have got giant yachts, then you're going to end up literally swimming with the fishes, you know, as they're saying she was kind of dismembered and and all sorts of gruesome stories about it. But unfortunately,

that's what happens when you scam people. Well, not everyone, not everyone gets that that fate, of course, but, you know, when you when you do it to that scale, maybe not Sam Bankman freed other. No, but not saying I want that to happen. Anyway, but, you know, he's obviously pissed off probably a lot of people as well. So imagine if he ends up at sharing a

sharing a cell with a dude that committed crimes because he lost a bunch of money in F. Yes. I don't know. It's 2023. Any story can go right now. But sadly, a lot of people must have lost a lot of money. And I just said they did this thing where they had these huge, you know, halls out like convention centers and they would do these big

clubs. And they would have a lot of elaborate presentations and things. And it was it was like when you watch those videos, they're really cringy. Like I when I came out of uni, I went for a few kind of jobs that promised the earth and and was to go into them and they turned out to be literally like door to door, like door to door sales

jobs. But like that, the sort of like selling electric or whatever. And it was all about basically, you know, the other thing was like, well, you know, your best bet is to catch an oldie who doesn't really know what they're doing. And sign up and like, I don't want to be a part of this is a terrible. The things they were saying, like the guy like,

what I was doing thing was driving around in like the 20 year old car. It's literally a heap of crap. And he's like, if I just do this for a few more weeks, I'm going to be like Timmy with his like sharp tank, you know, in his office. But, but when you watch these like one coin presentations, like it's all the same kind of diluted sense

of like, you know, exponential wealth growth. It's, you know, it's like a very sad because people, you know, people want to make a lot of money and they want to make it quick. And when you've got someone who's offering something like this, it's easy to latch onto, especially, you know, if you, if you haven't been burned before in a small way. So, yeah, unfortunately, she's probably

rubbed up a lot, a lot of people the wrong way. And it wouldn't surprise me if, if she disappeared, you know, via the old route. Well, I'm not so sure it was an investor. I think it's a little romantic that, uh, Ignat, Tova and SBF could both be taken out by rogue investors. It seems more to me like she might have been the front woman of

this scam and that someone else put the money in someone else rented all the hotel conference center. Someone else made the presentation. Someone else bought the handlers sent out the things bought the mailing lists, wherever they got these people. And then at the end of the day, that person followed the first rule of assassination, kill the assassin. Then arc, what do you think about one coin?

She'll double your coins by November? I mean, the whole one coin scam was actually horrific. And it, it's a lot of people. And it's all off what was annoying. It's all that stuff. All the ICO scammers, which are around at that time. And this one coin scam was even ICO scammers, just like a fake website exchange scam where people would put like 25 K 50 K

K buy ins. And they were just vulnerable people. A lot of people like from the city of London, and they heard about Bitcoin. And then there's next thing's going to be the next Bitcoin. Blah blah. And this is female Satoshi. And then that's why they'll buy it. So they could do as well as they would do something like Bitcoin. So all these people inevitably are piggybacking

off all the good work of all these Bitcoiners and all these people working developing this incredibly revolutionary software. And then this scam was capitalized. But I agree with you, Thomas, that we shouldn't be too quick to judge like, you know, yeah, like she sucked for wearing a scam. But if she's been killed by this mafia, I mean, during that time, when all the S.C. Air stuff

was going on, I remember there being lots of clear like, mafia is involved in scaring people. There were some coins and tokens which were released and some videos which were released. And it was clearly, they were clearly like connected, you know. And if I personally was like a criminal mastermind, mafia boss, or was book air book airing mafia mafia boss, I would find a fairly smart

intelligent woman, which she was. I would kidnap her family. I would try to kill them. And I would say, right, you're now going to be the front face of the scam. And you're going to tell people about this scam. You're going to convince them it's a good idea to buy in and they'll buy in. And I'm going to kill you. That's very plausible. That stuff like

that happens. You know, within the criminal world. And I think it's just another classic example of, you know, when you have shady business, like, and you have big money involved, like people die. I happen to drug stuff all the time, like lots of people die. Because, you know, they're outside. They're in the wild west. They're outside of the normal rule base, which people live by. But

yeah, it's, if she is dead, it's sad. And if she isn't done, she's an actual scavenger. Then, you know, scourished or all, but I can't help feeling that there's a possibly she was just a puppet. So I don't want to judge her too much. Yeah, thankfully, the words a little bit wider and people are less likely to be able to profit off all the good work

that Bitcoin does. Because there's these examples. And yeah, sadly, those examples come with a lot of tragedy. But there we are. Yeah. So I don't have any. The evidence that Satoshi was a woman or a man, but I do know that Dr. Rooza Inotova CEO of One Coin was indeed a woman. Girl power. Girls can do anything. Josh, Shakala, what do you think about One Coin

and the disappearance of the CEO? Well, first of all, it was only like what? The. It was 30th of January. I read a story about on, on de-crept, actually, that they found her. Because she had an apartment in London. And so I don't know what to believe anymore. But anyway, I think that was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the. That wasn't that wasn't actually. So it's just

that's mentioned in the article. I don't think I think that was kind of like the book just proof that she exists. Always. It seems like it could have been someone using her name or her bank accounts. And at the time, we, I think we reported on it. We said, oh, she's alive. But maybe just her bank accounts or her signature was alive. I see. Yeah. I

mean, look, she's obviously a full guy. You cannot have such a big outfit. She'd be busier than a one-legged man in a buck kicking contest. If she had to run everything by herself. So there's other people that that took part in this. And. And so it's, it's really. It's about finding, finding the whole outfit. I mean, it's, it's really awful. I remember I even had an

open source letter. That I was trying to get together using GitHub to try and bring this one coin down because every, everywhere I went. In terms of little meetups and things, there'd be some new kids that have never heard anything about crypto currency going, ah, if you heard about this one coin thing and trying to chill it, it was just everywhere all the time. And I

remember just being really pissed off at it all. But yeah, look, it definitely wouldn't surprise me if she's at the bottom of the sea. But. And at the same time, it's. Yeah. All you just can't rip that many people off without being. Being off someone. I'm really quite surprised that Sam, Sam, making free of it hasn't been assassinated either or you know, even at the time.

Mark, I was surprised that he was untouched. So. Because you know, people get really, really passionate and you don't even need bad people. And it's someone that's really desperate because they've lost everything and angry and, and just wanting to get revenge. So it's. Yeah. But yeah. Well, I hope they do find the other perpetrators and they keep on searching for these. You know, because one coin

was was particularly. A gregious. I agree, but Josh, it's almost like a competition amongst bad people who can steal the most money before something happens. But we all know the one true route to getting assassinated is printing silver certificates. Yes. Printing silver certificates. And as Ben was saying earlier, big money often leads to death. I wanted to remind everyone once again of what Ross Obrecht did

with the Silk Road. People were trading large amounts of cannabis for large amounts of money with no violence. This has never happened before in human history and is something laudable about that website. Moving on to the exit question. Forced prediction. Is this the last will here of Dr. Rooja? Is she dead? Dan Eve? Yes or no? I think she is. Yeah. I think she's gone now.

We would have had a bit more news. I think it's been basically nothing since 20, 2017 when she disappeared. And arc five billion dollars gone. A movie book ending here. I mean, yeah. If you'll the outfit. I mean, if you'd put it behind her, then she's like, you know, what do you call it? A degree of separation, which you can get rid off from you getting

it's been put in jail. So yeah, she's dead. Like Mr. Pink said in Resmore dogs, that's one more step closer to me. And that can't happen. Joshua Gala is she dead. Well, yeah. She probably is. And it means the outfit behind. Like Ben said, is a. Is it like Ben said? Is it really worth the money? Because that's the end of the story. I'm the only

one around here acting like a professional F and thief a minute ago, you're about to tell me your name. I think she's dead too. I think this is the end of Dr. Rooja and one coin. I agree with Josh though, it's sad that many of the foot soldiers were not caught. Many people perhaps were paid to promote this and were not punished and might have gotten

to keep their ill gotten gains. Moving on, looking for up to date with looking to stay up to date with the latest news and developments in the exciting world of crypto currencies, look no further than the world crypto network. Our team of experts provides insightful analysis and engaging discussions on all things crypto related, whether you're a seasoned investor or just getting started, our content is accessible,

informative and entertaining. So why wait? Join the world crypto network today and stay ahead of the curve and there's rapidly evolving industry. Those words were entirely written by artificial intelligence. All I said was write a short advertisement for the world crypto network. Amazing, huh? Check out world crypto network at worldcryptoneetwork.com subscribe today. Issue three FTX is collapsed wiped out 200 billion dollars in the total value

of the cryptocurrency market and it hit retail investors in emerging economies. The hardest large investors tended to sell as the coins began to go down, whereas small investors in emerging economies like India and Thailand continued to buy as the prices declined. Ben, what do you think about the main amount of losses on the Bitcoin and FTX scam coming from the emerging world and from retail. investors.

I mean, this is this is clearly proof that the utility theory value is a scam because it's by these things being destroyed, it's added huge value onto onto Bitcoin like hundreds of billions worth of value onto onto Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. It's good that FTX is gone. It's more valuable now because it's no longer muddying the waters. Then we're better for it. So we've just got to

wait for the price to catch up. The exchange value to catch up with it. But yeah, it's it's I don't see it like a loss of value. I see there's a massive gain in value. The fact that these things are gone. I also think that none of these investors have lost if they haven't sold. If they wait and if it does come back up as many

people believe they'll be fine. But the article can't see that as a possibility. Josh, the goal of what do you think about the FTX investors being mostly retail and from the emerging markets? Yeah, absolutely tragedy. It's it's it's really sick and this is why I'm I'm such a big fan of. I'm I'm a big fan of decentralized finance and I know everyone's going, but I like

it because you're dealing with smart contracts where you still hold the keys. You don't have to trust other people. You have to trust the code because most people can't code and you have to trust that you can't you know if they get too complex. It's hard to see even for a code if there is a bug, but but FTX or any or any centralized exchange where

you're trusting the exchange even with the proof of proof of reserve stuff. You can't prove everything and and so by having decentralized finance and smart contracts feeling with it used to hold the private keys in a good system. And and you don't you we don't need all the money. The central when we look back at it, the centralized decentralized financial products will be as useless as

a chocolate teapot. Like just just pointless. It will melt. You know, so better to head towards these deep deep decentralized finance. And if you don't like any of that, then the original defy is Bitcoin. Dan Eve, they say that FTX wiped out the little guy. What happened? It's really sad that you know retail messers always get burned right now. The sad thing is the retail messers

always seem to get burned because they're kind of they're a bit less strategic right when they're and they obviously don't have algorithms and and cons and whatever helping them make these things trading decisions. So they tend to get but and they're also let you know they're least likely to get the information before they're kind of bigger entities do so that's Then you're combining that with retail

investors from emerging markets. So you know people I mean hopefully these aren't people that they're literally give that you know it's it's their month salary and you're salary and whatever one the complete life savings. Because you know but the still the fact is from emerging markets makes it sound even worse right you wouldn't be so bad it was like a bunch of rich lost their lost

their funds due to it but I think one thing is this kind of positive. In a way because there's always a bright always look on the bright side of life. So in Monty Python is that every scam makes people realize that they should have just poor Bitcoin. Because you can go chasing all these unicorn like projects that are just going to make you lots and lots

of money and and quickly but you have such a high risk that that the companies aren't going to go off with the funds especially if they're kind of utility token type companies that just have clearly. You know intention of providing utility in the first place and they've got you know no plan no strategy they just rely on the pump and dump schemes. So at least in

that respect every scam that happens there are more people that want to turn to a safe haven and Bitcoin is the safe haven not just against the original you know financial markets but against the crypto scams. So that's that's that's pretty sad. The fact that the. The markets inside of it you know they focus on the fact that people lose lots of money on crypto and

blah blah blah but you know I worked in a in a bank for a well banking finance company for a long while and and I need lots of traders and some of them were pretty intelligent like people and they lost a lot of money on shares all the time. So like you know they're they're you can criticize people or pick up on people losing money in

crypto specifically. From say Bitcoin the price of Bitcoin going down and the Bank of International Settlements has been jumping on this and giving there. You know quite rightly on the general scam of FTX but also you know try me in the Bitcoin this you know FTX going down means Bitcoin's also bad. But ultimately people lose money on stocks they lose money on on trading for it.

They lose money on lots of other things. So you know those things still happen. But it's because it's Bitcoin specifically or at least it's a crypto currency. Company that that held people's Bitcoin and that they have the chance to beat Bitcoin with a stick again. But you know it's just rescuing the fact is that you even though these you've got their proof of keys sort of

thing going on. You can never trust a centralized entity. So best just to hold your own keys like it's it's this thing right. Whether there's going to be the haven't actually been many repercussions more than the last sort of month. The other companies going down after the FTX downfall obviously the Gemini and think Gemini and what's the name having a Spat as well Gemini and. Shannises.

Yes. Is it a little currency group. Yeah and but yeah I think there's still more to come from from the Ripples. I think it's still a bit it's still a bit science and a silent now. But sadly. Yeah. It's. I just feel for all the people that lost money in FTX and any other scam one coin and there's just so many of them. So you just

need to keep your wits about you and stick to Bitcoin really. I think that goes well into the exit question when Sam Bankman free the famous CEO from the pages of Forbes and Fortune magazine learned that FTX had cost retail investors in the emerging world more than anyone else. How did he react? Was it like the name? Native American in the old garbage trash advertisement with

the one tier tripping down his face. Josh Jagala how would Sam Bankman freed allegedly of course react to this sad news? I will eat say I'm sorry. What do you mean? It probably do a bunch of Twitter spaces. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Oh sorry. Ben are let's stand. Eve. How would Sam react? Yeah I think he did do a well tour of a

world sorry tour like the BP oil spill in South Park. You know with different outfits on and you know stroking you know stroking. Stroking animals and kissing babies and being like I'm so sorry. You know what the politicians doing all that just trying to get his reputation back but it's fuked because he seems like he's a giant great. Scammer. See you like. Ben are you think

these retail investors in emerging countries would react if SPF told them he's sorry. I think he's I think he's he's he's he doesn't quite shoulder the guilt so be I'm sorry. But I was given all these people an opportunity to join. I'm sorry. I clearly didn't read the article properly. So I'm sorry for my response to it. I was like fuck yeah bitcoin. It's worth more

money now. It's very sad. But at least four people lost their money and it's in emerging markets. I agree with the panel. Yeah I agree with Ben. I think he would say sorry buddy doesn't really care. He just you know he would he would defect he'd say oh someone else's fault or oh it was a CZ from finances fault or oh it was Caroline's fault. It

was anybody but him. Moving on to issue four. The San Francisco federal reserve is hiring for digital currency development like the New York based counterpart. The office is looking for a CBDC developer which is not a real thing. It sounds like the job application is for senior application architect digital currency. It sounds like the San Francisco Federal Reserve as well as the New York Federal Reserve

have joined Russia and Iran and other countries working on a central bank digital currency. People have been talking about CBDCs for a while and I've been kind of thinking they are wrong. I guess we're at that stage like Gandhi said where they imitate you. They are now copying the evil worthless Ponzi scheme bitcoin and using it as the plans for their countries CBDC. Josh Egole what

do you think about this strange development? It's CBDCs probably one of the most dangerous things for freedom and people need to take it. Seriously that this is happening that we need to have discussions. We cannot just sit back and say oh this is just happening. We shouldn't just say oh this is just the central banks are now doing this because it will basically mean that the

federal government has an atomic level of transparency into your own financial transactions. A lot of people say what's the difference between now they can see stuff now no they can't. Your bank is obligated to keep your privacy and at the end of the day your bank has transferred a whole bunch of money to another bank from its customers and that the other bank has transferred a

whole bunch of money to your bank throughout the day from their customers and at the end of the day it goes up to the Fed. The Fed settles just one transaction from that bank to that bank so the Fed don't know all the details of what happened in between. If you remove that if you allow the central bank to be instantly real time down to the

cent or down to the sub cent they can start to then say well control transactions. There is a lockdown now in your area and you're moving past your lockdown at 15-minute city zone where you're not allowed to spend your money or there's two obesity epidemic you've already had your ration of sugar or well we've got to stop global warming and you've had already two grams of

beef too much your wallet won't work. Whatever you think it's only worth and whatever your political leaning it's only going to be worse it's not something that should be done. There's no point there's already real-time settlement. The real-time settlement A can be done in cryptocurrency that's decentralized but B can be done in Venmo and things like that. The private sector can deal with real-time settlement it

doesn't need it. This is just a fast to control money and to basically control it's citizens. It's awful so we should stand up against it or at least have a conversation. Well it's always trouble when I agree with Josh but it does sound like a government's wet dream. During the Bush administration they had a crackdown on pornography and other things that they didn't like and they

actually had to go there physically and do these kind of things. What they could do presumably with a CBDC is anytime you spend money at a bad business they could shut down the bad businesses account they could shut down the bad business account. You're account there's all kinds of fun things that they could do and it's not just like knowing how much is in your bank

account like Josh has it's knowing every single transaction on the ledger. Dan Eve what do you think about this exciting job opportunity in San Francisco? Well I think it's the first thing I thought was San Fran shitcoin but why would it be them specifically doing it? Surely that would be done. I'm not really you know I've had a whole infrastructure but the Fed rule over right

because it must be a dollar it's still a dollar right they're half they're not going to create that. I remember that in the in the United States the Federal Reserve is just about as federal as federal express. It's not really part of the government so they can but it is interesting to see the San Francisco and New York offices competing against each other are they both

making CBDCs are they working together I don't know. Yeah it's I mean I'd be interested to hear the mechanics of that. The most interesting about that is that I think it said I'm sure it said like 11 countries have already 11 countries have fully launched to CB fully launched to CBDC including the Bahamas and Nigeria I don't know it is 11 countries have got a CBDC

but I'm assuming that is it blockchain based is it like a bright like JP Morgan's private ledger though building or is it like an actual public ledger so that's quite interesting that the yeah there's already countries that have actually implemented it and there hasn't been much talk about that that you know them as test cases and how it's going right you haven't seen any or I

am you know any articles of like oh Nigeria CBDC's gone really bad or really well whatever so maybe I don't know I'm gonna read a lot more about that before before next week it seems like it the way to go countries at the moment are still especially the larger economies are still very shady about Bitcoin they're kind of you know I think they can they realize

it's power and they need they need power to control which Bitcoin doesn't give them Bitcoin takes more power away from the monetary they're in monetary system so this all is about a power grab and I would just like the the when it gets to the case of like being able to control going into a shop and being like oh dance it's something bad on Twitter or

you know it can go down to that level and and everything's gonna be scrutinized even more so now than you know and I was in the US it's transactions over $600 now have to be declared is it something something something like that they've proposed things like that but I'm not sure they've actually gone okay it's been proposed right but you can you can tell with all

these proposals that they're reaching out I mean even the EU drop their limits on the amount that that you can accept for cash before it needs to be formally declared you know you could pay for a huge you could buy a car with cash like a brand new car with cash back in the day and now if you're accepting large sums of cash it needs to

be declared and AML and KWC and all that so it kind of only makes sense that with this crazy outreach and especially kind of magnified by by by by the country the lockdown controls that they were able to do over the COVID restrictions you know with COVID restrictions that the power grab is here to stay and it's not just you know it's not gonna go away

and you need to you need to fight for it you need to fight fight for your freedom because they're gonna take it but it's not even getting to the fight it's not even being talked about it's just in the newspaper oh by next year we'll have a CVDC it's not like should we do this what's the benefits what's the you know the and the only benefit

is apparently real-time settlement like I give a crap if the shop down the road gets my money at the end of the day or the next day anyway I mean I've swiped my card it doesn't matter but also where's the real bottleneck will the real bottleneck's in international transfers that's the one that takes a week so and that's not gonna be solved unless you go well

what's the natural progression you go the natural progression is real-time settlement on a country level and then well we should do a full global currency CVDC through the international bank of settlements and now we have a one-world current currency where one one government basically controls what everyone does and we have to do that because of you know carbon emissions and by the way social credit score

plugs perfectly into this as well you're not allowed to spend more than this because XYZ you're allowed a ration of chocolate this week because you you use the green light and you didn't J walk like I don't know how petty these people will get but it's ridiculous to give them the power to be able to do it and once again I'm agreeing with Josh I went

right there the problem how do you set all multiple CVDCs together global coin above all CBDCs a one coin wall yeah one to bind them one to find them in a darkness bind them as the article says the posting says the team developing the CBDC has the feel of a startup and you could make between a hundred and thirty four thousand and two hundred and fifteen

thousand dollars to sell out your fellow man and create a system that will track them forever Ben Arck what do you think it's got a feel of a startup it's in San Francisco are you gonna move you're gonna take the job if you if you if you play out the game theory on it I don't even got too much to be worried about ultimately because all

the countries are incentivized not to use another country's CBDC so we don't want you know the US dollar CBDC to be the world reserve currency and the way in which the any board reserve currency has kept its power is through force and through control and coercion and hedgering me and ultimately I think it just drifts to great celebrity and the ultimate answer for a country wide

Salmont layer is Bitcoin just use Bitcoin and a political money and plenty of economists came died for the cause you know trying to push the bank or join Bretton Woods so I think that's where it will inevitably drift and I think one of the ways in which we get there is like these big countries with their big salaries and the central banks and all this shit

let them build these these gimmicks right but we empower the smaller countries okay so it's it's it's it's we empower the smaller countries with the free and open source software stack to build that own free and open source CBDCs whatever you want to call them you know as suffering digital currencies and you build on some like Bitcoin so be able to build it on decent pre-open

source technology stack and then it's just like software you have a product yourself we have free and open source software and ultimately for pre-open source wins out because it's with any of everyone's interests for all web servers not to be controlled by Microsoft to be controlled by you know a free and open source software package or free and open source software packages so I think Bitcoin

will eventually win out and I think the way we do that is we is Bitcoin as we admit that we said that we're like oh well all these participants just use Bitcoin and it's like no like they need something better they need something which is stable so we need to build a stable thing on Bitcoin for them to use and then I'll pull more people into

Bitcoin we to empower them get them using Bitcoin so we've seen to rockable with Bitcoin and then they'll start settling using Bitcoin and then all these big and and then they won't want to use the USD CBDC and anyway the USD can force that is through cohesion to force and then everything would just just drift towards using Bitcoin so I think it's a very important step

in Bitcoin's evolution and I swear it's the thing which is going to cause the next craze like the amount of liquidity which would flood into Bitcoin because of it is the thing which would cause the next full cycle is when countries poorer countries use the free and open source software stack to build really good stable coins just for stability for day to day being in the

move exchange you know like and then it's if people want to use the savings technology Bitcoin they could just use it natively then when it pulls in the liquidity eventually Bitcoin is big bear myth and the price isn't going to move and stuff is priced in Bitcoin and then they could just use Bitcoin natively but things to show I'm worried about is like back door CBDC

says like Elon Musk with Twitter producing his own coin and creating a we chat and then you know as a state pop it that then becomes the back door CBDC which people start using but anyway it's all it's all temporary everything would drift towards using Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin is a very important thing to do with Bitcoin Ben's right here I think he's predicting the future

that countries will use Bitcoin as a settlement layer but only after they've wasted tons and tons of money and years and years of time all creating their own CBDCs and then all failing it would be interesting like Ben said if the smaller countries developing countries whatever work together all started using Bitcoin maybe could even get ahead of these first world or developed countries and and beat

them in the right base so that could be kind of an interesting opportunity there as you know no doubt these countries have to go through this CBDC phase before they can even think about Bitcoin they're like just like coin base or buying this or anything else it's like I'll just print my own coin and it's government. Salvador didn't they went straight but yeah and it doesn't

work in our Salvador like no one uses Bitcoin the reason no one uses Bitcoin is because it sucks for like everyday payments if they had their Salvador dollar and Bitcoin they would all use that and it's because they love our Salvador and they would use it as stable we did an exchange it's the thing which needs to happen and just please happen. Yeah well this is

why why I'm so focused on building a stable coin collateralized over the collateralized and but yeah sadly it's not on Bitcoin but that's because the tech stack isn't and liquidity there's a whole bunch of reasons but but yeah one really interesting point that you brought up was that it'll go through a system like in in in countries in Africa where the private sector actually created money

using SMS credits and then the government basically went and took that over and built a sort of CBDC by controlling that that the telephone company's built that's also a really interesting take then. Exit question how fast will this happen will the United States create a CBDC in six months two years five years or never Josh Jagala. I don't think I think it'll be probably five years

yeah and if they don't do it properly because if they don't do it properly CBDCs and why they haven't been done yet is because they become a huge honey pot you have one place where everybody's money is if that gets hacked the entire economy is dead dead in the water you can't get it back who knows how much money did so and so have I don't

know it got hacked so it's not it's not an easy nut to crack and so yeah well see I think five years yeah five years Dan Eve they say this team has the feel of a startup how soon will they get their MVP to market. Oh I think that they're probably get an MVP quite soon and be trialing it but actually implementing it's a completely you

know a whole different ballgame and yeah I'm you know how's it going to work with with like just one state doing it I still I still don't understand that part right because it's all the dollars I how do you create a CBDC for just kind of part of the dollar that that big confused me so yeah I'm thinking donkeys years I'm hoping Bitcoin before before CBDC.

As everyone knows from Peter Theo's book zero to one startups are easy Ben arc how quickly could they get this CBDC into the convenient stores and banks and malls and all the places it needs to be. Yeah that's a very good point I think that the speed of development will be much slower than I just please have I just want it to happen in some in

some poorer countries and it's it's it's that bottom up anarchist revolution is kind of like but by the small poorer countries so it's almost like you know if I saw the door dot did it would be a top down but ultimately on the world stage bottom up revolution but yeah I think I think that's likely to happen is they'll just create this amazing technology and other

countries will follow suit in they'll fall like Domino's and then these big countries will like all let's just let's just use this great technology because it's better than anything we could create. As Mark Zuckerberg said move fast and break things we can only assume the United States government will listen to his advice we're running out of time Josh Egold you have a prediction or a story

of the week. I actually a story of the week is that we finally after months of R&D and to different things we are going to go with the zero knowledge roll ups and developing on that stack for the standard it will be on the polygons version of that and the the Ethereum virtual machine but it's zero knowledge EVM which is really interesting tech. Yeah and then

still the hope is to bridge across to Bitcoin to have rapid coin being able to be used on that as well so we'll see. Well I like roll ups but usually they're made of fruit. Dan Eave prediction or a story of the week. I'm going to go non-crypto here but just a personal one which is there today. What was the next day or yesterday my son

started like he's like 10 months old now and I was like clap clap did that and he and he did that and now he's be clapping on demand and so that's just been all I can sort of think and smile about for the last couple of days. Yeah a bit of nice stuff rather than dreary FTX stand back when fact Frieden is crinkly ass. And his

man boobs. If only we could chain the audience to clap we could save all the fairies. Ben Arck prediction or a story of the week go ahead. I'm going to try and show you something but I don't want to dox myself. Let me do a screen show. Are you disabled it? Is it enabled? Yeah go go go. Window or screen entire screen. While we're waiting for

Ben give us a thumbs up in the chat folks we're only 13. Yeah thumbs up everybody. So I was playing around with any extension we have which is for pegged assets using lightning so stable sat which is a great project they've created an extension and with that extension you can connect to collider which is a exchange where you can do like high frequency trading in a

fairly in all this way. I don't understand the internet so it consists of this. I'm going to show you an example so I set up yesterday. I had 30,000 sats on in my wallet here and then I had 30,000 sats on collider and I've actually got a login to collider to show you this but it's kind of cool because look for login. I'm going to use

my. Laying let me scan again. There we go so if you can I can't see it can you because I'm screen showing but anyway yes and I'm logged in I just scanned that QR code using it on your wall so if I go to dashboard and then I go to overview. No overview is over you. Oh man this is a no profile. Oh we got and

what's been happening is that using this extension it's been hedging the price of Bitcoin I guess and then as Bitcoin drops in price I've actually got some sats which appeared in my collider wallet so I can just keep creeping that off. What it means is you can in an ominous way if you're if you're in Bitcoin in sats on lightning you can you can peg to

and pick and peg to USD currently but you can also peg to to your rose as well. All this stuff super interesting and the experimentation which is happening with project like standard sats and the standard IO and also GALO with stable sats which is a kind of fork of standard sats is super exciting and I just I just like the fact that this there we go

you can see all these trays which have just been happening. Doing crazy trading stuff in order for me to keep a peg to USD I just think it's really interesting cool even though I don't really understand how it's happening but yeah hopefully this extension will be launching it pretty soon. I mean I'm just going to like review it and then people can play with it but

I think it's I think it's pretty powerful. It's very cool it's very very cool I love it. I mean it's this is the way that for those that don't know when you when we had local Bitcoins and you would have these people running around town doing massive trades and for instance someone would say I need you know I need to sell five Bitcoin back in the

day maybe it was 20 grand. Some you would meet somewhere at a Starbucks and they would give you 20 grand and you'd give them five Bitcoin and they are already onto the next deal if someone who wants to buy a five Bitcoin and they would go over and sell that now. The thing that I always thought was but what if Bitcoin just tanks in price while

they're holding that and then they go over and then they've lost money. First of all they're making money on the spread but second of all they would as soon as they bought that they'd go on to crack and or something. And they'd open a short position and that means they borrow Bitcoin from somebody and sorry they'd sell it if they're holding Bitcoin here. So they do

the opposite of what they do. So you're always doing the opposite on the exchange to what you've got. So if you're holding Fiat and you know for that moment and you're ready to buy Bitcoin because you've already made that deal you can open a short position on crack and it's it's a and if you take out all that complexity. By using what what Benarks here showed

us it's really wonderful because now you can hold Sats at a dollar value rather than and a Bitcoin value and that's really useful for yet for emerging economies that want to use Bitcoin as an international settlement layer. Amazing. Very cool. Good stuff Ben. I know so little I'm going to have to pick your brains about how it works the mechanics of the you know shorting stuff

but yeah thank you. Yeah. Well shout out to Kenneth in the chat. He says he's looking for a good sci-fi book for this weekend. You can't go wrong with foundation by Isaac Asmoth although that is part of a series. I'm not crazy about series sometimes because it's such a commitment. Also I check out Snowcrash by Neil Stephenson or fall doge and hell by Neil Stephenson or

his latest termination shot. I think it's doge or maybe dodge in hell but the main character's name is dodge it's a great book fall. There's nothing to do with doge coin. I think it all but it's a great book and everyone should check it out it's very thoughtful. Stephenson's a great writer very accessible very fun with the exception of crypto. It's a phenomenal which I haven't

read it's that one's hard but read one of the easy ones like snow crash or our termination stock or fall they're pretty long though snow crash maybe snow crash. But thanks again for everybody for joining us thanks for giving us a thumbs up down below push and subscribe. Hello to everybody in the chat leave us a comment if you're watching later and until next time.