Creating New Marketplaces with Anthony Estebe

What is up guys welcome back to another episode of the Dibri Crypto Podcast and on this episode I sit down with Anthony S. Deb. He is the co-founder and CEO of Lightflow. How's it going today, Anthony? Great. Thanks. Thank you for having me, Steve. That would be good. Yeah. For sure. For sure. So before we get into Lightflow and the world of NFT marketplaces, let's talk

a little bit about your background. What got you into crypto, what's your origin story? So my background started like quite early when I started to work in, like when I first started to work, I was like getting more of like traditional work in enterprise. So I quite quickly started to create companies. And I have like a background of like software engineer. Did some development a lot.

So I pretty the bunch of like startup in my, in my 20s. And, and then always like really curious about all new technologies. And then when basically a day I came up like 2015 something around like end of 2015. I was like, that sounds something promising. I was doing a lot of like back and development and all this kind of things. And I was like, this

is something like big. This is something that's that's going to be like used like everywhere all the time. So I basically jump in with my, my associate on the on Lightflow as well. We were like really excited by the tech. We started to work on like creating some, some small decentralized application, some small project around just playing a bit with the technology when it was like

really really early. And yeah, after some time we're like, okay, that's definitely the future. And we started to work like to really even. With some of the project we were we were involved in and really focused full time on like blockchain all the way in. So we actually did create a company before that was a company to create a custom blockchain. Of made custom blockchain for

decentralized executions. So that was called message really interesting research projects. And then over. So we were working with some clients to help them build their applications. So they are decentralized application. With like a range of application from like traditional D apps, like we kind of like basic D apps. But also like some really advanced defy things. Also some stuff with NFT even before NFT was actually

a thing like at the like before the cryptocurrency part we were actually working on some NFT. So we were always like involved with many, many different type of projects. And then yeah, after quite some time it was like, okay, now we focus on re-appling projects to actually launch companies to actually launch their other projects. And we try to develop a bit this kind of like advisory

consulting and also development to really add companies forward. And from that, we were able to do a lot of things. Basically we got quite a large amount of requests for NFT projects. Basically like beginning 2021. And that's where we were like, okay, we need to really specialize in that. That's something that we always saw anyway. Some really good interest on this all the NFT aspects. And

so yeah, we would build like flow that to go was to actually help project to launch their NFT. And then we could actually launch a lot of the market place on any single rated 20. Very cool. Very cool. And with creating, you know, marketplaces and even NFTs themselves for other people, there's a lot of kind of details that go in there with private keys and security

and stuff like that. And I know that it mentions that it's, you know, a decentralized NFT marketplace. So could we dig in there and figure out for the listeners, you know, what, what is this built on? You know, the white link is a stable solution kind of NFT marketplace is how, how is it that someone can go and have this created for them and use it

in a decentralized manner. Yeah, sure. So yeah, I'm really really at life through and that world for the last few years is really to try to help to go towards this like Web 3 ecosystem, I would say. So the point of like Web 3 is that it's blockchain based. So basically everything, most of the things that happen on the blockchain. So also basically like your NFTs,

of course, are there, but also also trade that happen for for the NFTs. So that's about that really bush. And also different tools that are around around that. So let's say like we have some kind of like like system maybe on your NFTs that could also be actual NFTs. So we really try to push like this all Web 3 thing. There is some complexities for sure,

but that's where there is also the part that because we're in the space for quite some time, pretty much like seven years now. It's not that complicated. When you know like the right tools to use when you know the right person to contact in case you need any six special when you're the right network, things can be like quite simple. Anyway, you need to, to other

contacts, you need to know the right tools, but when you do, that's pretty pretty simple. And right now, that's something for example, on the platform that we have right now. So we are based on the decentralized exchange, which is the variable protocol. So variable actually developed a protocol for their marketplace. So fully secure. We actually reuse this protocol and integrate that on the on our client's

platform. So this is one of the two that we actually use. There is a bunch of other two that we are using. And because we actually know the space, we know the right tools to use and how to use them and really understand like where we need to enforce security parts and where we are like, okay, this part is actually something that we could can do

it ourselves. All the demons of client can do themselves is like we can have like a ranch, all the different blocks together in a way that makes sense. Got it. Got it. So the variable Dow kind of is the decentralized way of doing this. Very cool. So let's go through an example. I think a lot of people are very visual and it helps going through like

a, a use case. So let's say a company comes to you and says, I want to do one of these. White label NFT marketplaces. Can you walk us through kind of step by step of of what that looks like for them? And how soon that would be turned around and stuff like that. Yeah. So basically the first step we are here is like we tried to

really, really understand what they want. Because a lot of people come to the space like we want an NFT marketplace. And they still don't know what is blockchain. What is even NFT. And there is a lot of issues, I would say at the moment that some people. Get hyped about NFT. They contact some development agencies and they get some NFTs. They get some just like private

asset in the private database without any of the things that NFT gave them. So we have a lot of education first to make sure that they really understand what is NFT. If they really want that. And what's the advantage of having that then from that when when they are really key on that. And that's interesting for them because it's so like kind of like a learning

experience for for our clients. When they are like all like we're understood. Then we can basically start to work with them on the platform. So there's a few decision to make which type of blockchain you want to use. For example, in our case right now we are compatible with any if you have the blockchain. So basically all the Ethereum like blockchain. So we are going to

be able to do that. So this is one first big decision. And again here we try to really help them to decide which one is best for their business. They all are pro and cons. And it's sometimes really hard to choose. And then from that we deploy basically like so like all the different smart contract to this application running on the on the blockchain for them.

We we deploy all the different collections. So basically is the part where they will be able to create the NFTs. And we also deploy for them a set of UI. So different different pages where they can actually create their NFTs. When their user can actually put their NFT on sale. They can see their wallet and a bunch of different different tools to help the user. And

all this of course with like trying to to as a product as smooth as possible. Because we all know that the blockchain user experience can be tricky sometime. It can be really hard to have like a nice user experience and to unbought user correctly. So that's why we'll so like try to integrate some tools. Let's select fiat on ramping or even like automatic wallet like wallet

with with email. For example. So a bunch of tools like that to really try to help the our clients the businesses to even on board their user are more easy. Got it. Got it. And is this using? Metamask like are people using their their own browser wallet like a if the company launches their marketplace after you've educated them and they understand what they're getting into. They

launch it. Me as a user and I like that business. Am I syncing it with Metamask or what type of Web 3 integrations are there? Yeah. So here like it's fully Web 3. So you connect with your with your wallet. Metamask but we're sort of way to connect that basically connect to. Pretty much all the the wallets on the market with some coin base as well.

And as I was saying we also have a wallet that you can actually create with your email. You maybe you've seen that with like paper XYZ for example that you can. As a user without any wallet without any knowledge about crypto you can just put your email. This for automatic key generator wallet for you without even you knowing about the wallet and then from that you

can start using the platform. So yeah we have a bunch of solutions for for for users wallets. And then after like the all like blockchain experience. So then when you want to create an NFT you actually have to send this transaction on the blockchain. So again more less integrated with a we with your wallet. If you have this email wallet basically you don't even see anything

that is happening. We need to take care of a favorite thing for the user. If it's like some metamask it's already for more advanced users so you can see and verify. Everything that that I put on the blockchain. And and yet similar to when you actually want to put your your your NFT on same. You we have like your offer that you need to sign with

your wallet to guarantee the security that you actually other winner at that time. And also when you accept the different offers you actually have some blockchain. Got it. And are there any kind of notable marketplaces that people could go check out now? Like I'd love to kind of see one of these in action at some point. I'm sure listeners would like to see it. Do you

have partners actively using it and after their live? Yeah we actually have one platform right now that they are trying to actually sell there as a solution. That's some good traction. And actually trying to resell the solution. And we have three of them to to launch their platform and they are launching on on our solution right now. That's called ODE.com. Really good platform. It's actually running

on BSC. Binance Smart Chain. So this is something like this one is interesting because so we are using the variable protocol. And RuralBall is not yet compatible with with Binance. But so that's some part that we actually actually did to really browse all stack and Binance to basically test that for RuralBall protocol. And that's something that we are. We start to push on the protocol as

well. So that's a protocol kind of soupy compatible with this chain. Got it. And I'd love to get your take on the IPFS kind of I won't call it controversy. But there's a lot of issues with some of these marketplaces for example, OpenC or some of these big ones where people don't realize that those files are going onto IPFS. And I could go and download them.

And I know that that defeats a lot of the, you know, the original, you know, creator and the intent of the original NFT. But going through and downloading let's say a series of files and things like that. There's all sorts of really interesting takes that I've seen across those sites. So first just to clarify one thing is like, it's not only an issue with IPFS. I

actually even if you have your files on your server, or the moment they are on your page and you are looking at them, you can just right click save all this kind of like an issue. So on IPFS or not on IPFS, it doesn't really really matter. Even if you have an image on the internet, there is a neural for that. There is a way to

access this image more or less complicated. So I would say this doesn't, it's not related to the technology I would say. And I'm having a big fan of IPFS, I think the system is really, really interesting. After it's more like a general concept of like, yeah, when you look at one image, on your computer, basically you can download it and you can do whatever you want

with it, which is something that is definitely bad. But at the same time, this image worst nothing if you try to basically image or whatever kind of media, of course, it's worth nothing if you try to reset it. And that's a part that's all beauty for me of blockchain and NFT is the traceability. Like if you try to take this image and you are like, let's

it's like it's something that it's not something we can block. Unfortunately, even with like, blockchain or not. But blockchain, it's something that as long as you have something on your computer, then you can do whatever you want with it. There is licenses, there is like legal stuff, thermo services and things like that. But it's be honest, some people don't read these things, don't care about these

things. And so it happened. But the beauty of like this all decentralized system and this all like blockchain way of thinking is that everything is public, everything is very favorable. And it actually in some device people to verify the things. And so over a long period of time, it would be user don't do that anymore because they have no gain to do that. And that's all

again, theory rated to any decentralized project. That's possible. But nobody would do that because there is no sense to do that. Yeah. And I think tracing back and verifiable as the original owner of a piece of artwork, let's say, is a great use case for the user. For this technology in general, I think DMCA claims are at the forefront right now, which is really kind of

an interesting situation to be in because, you know, you're going to a legacy system to kind of try and justify, like, I am the original person, I'm DMCAing you. And because for everybody that's listening, the board apes, a lot of cybercongs, all these big projects, have copycats out there where they're, they'll mint the same exact collection, but edit pixel, maybe one or two pixels on an

image. And the pressure to DMCA, that person or that project is there. Like a lot of community people, if you're very angry about these sort of copycats and things like that. And there's a lot of them. So it's because there's money on the table to kind of confuse people. And things like that. And I don't want to go too deep down this rabbit hole, but it

is so interesting to me that DMCA is coming up more and more and more and more. And it's such an old kind of system. And we're all saying, like, no, you can verify it. You can go on there and see. And most of the people are just taking it at face value and saying, no, you need to go after them legally. And projects don't want to

be that guy. Like that person to use the old system to help the new system. So it's this weird sort of bridge to jump from one system to another. And I was curious of your thoughts on that. Yeah, it's still like using this old system because for now there is kind of like the legal part that's rely on this old system. But the way to see

an FT as well is that it's basically a license. Even if you see like all this PFP, so like Paul A, it's like this project with like avatar and images. So of them, even most of them, it's not for the picture. It's for the brand BI. And it's for the use of the picture. It's for the license to exploit this picture or maybe the brand. And

so your NFT is actually a license. Right now is not yet legally recognized as a license. But ultimately that would be the case. And you will not need to go like to the old system because the old system will be completely different. And it's always that to actually prove that, okay, now we have the proof here. So we're good. Everything is here. Everything is verified by

everyone. Why doing some extra work on that? So information is already here. Yeah. Well said, well, what stage you guys at now? And you know, what's next for lightflow over the next 12 months? So right now the stage. So we are like the platform fully, fully functional. We developed feature like pretty much like every month. We developed a bunch of new features to really improve different

user experience, businesses, features and things like that. But yeah, fully, fully functional and NFT marketplace. With all the feature that you can expect. Like placing, like doing some options, placing some beads, selling for some fixed price. Even importing some other external collections, minting your NFTs and so on. So this is like the standard where I right now. Of course, we want to work on like doing

more, more feature, more integration with a source, external partners. Actually, like right now we are discussing with one company to actually verify the provenance of images to actually prevent or at least help preventing this, this issues. And also at the same time in the next 12 months, we are planning to work on kind of like an also branch of lightflow to really help projects. Because something

that we've seen when we talked with a lot of project that want to launch there. Is there an NFT project or NFT marketplaces? They are like, they are triggering finding the funds, finding the right person to do the marketing or even to to say and bring the right person on the project and thing like that. So that's something that we plan to do in the coming

months to also like create this kind of. Not really incubator, but this kind of like group of other companies to really help this project to unbolt them even faster. Got it. Very cool. Well, those are all the questions that I have for you working people go and learn more about lightflow. So definitely lightflow.com our websites. That would be the first place. We have a Twitter as

well. Lightflow.com. That's where we publish mostly. We are not this size. We are not super active yet on social network and everything. But we continue to work on that part. And then after if anyone has some projects about NFT and NFT marketplaces, don't be scale and just like open with us and we try to see how we can help you. Awesome. Well, those are all the

questions that I have. Everybody, wherever you're listening this on iTunes or Spotify, the links that Anthony mentioned will be in the description. These show notes, but thanks so much for coming on and sharing more about lightflow. Anthony. Yeah. Thank you for having me. It was great.