John Wetzel - Longtime NBA Coach & Player

the hard way, because if it's not right for us, it's not right for you. Deez and Watson, it's a family thing since 1939. Got shopping on the brain, but a budget on your mind? Then get to Burlington. The brands will surprise you and the low prices will amaze you. There's a dress waiting in store that's going to look great on you. With Burlington's wow deals, you

can treat yourself and your family with styles, accessories and products they really want all up to 60% off other retailers prices every day. Burlington, love the deals, prices and selection vary by store. Anything is how you do everything. If you don't pay attention to detail on the little things, you're not going to be in the habit of paying attention to detail for the big things. If

you don't have the imagination and the willingness to fail or not being afraid to fail, I don't think you can be truly great. Candace Parker, I have so much hope for this generation coming up that I've grown up with women in sports, in leadership roles, on television, speaking about sports, speaking knowledgeably about sports. Just to name a few of the best. Welcome to sports business radio.

Now here's Brian Burger. Well, thanks for joining us on this edition of sports business radio. John Wetzel, longtime NBA coach, former NBA player, as well as Virginia Tech basketball Hall of Famer. He's joining me on this week's show. Wetzel served as a coach for the NBA's Phoenix Sons, Portland Trailblazers, New Jersey Nets, Golden State Warriors, and Sacramento Kings. He was a player with the NBA's Los

Angeles Lakers, Phoenix Sons and Atlanta Hawks. Wetzel discusses the highlights of his lengthy coaching career, working alongside head coaches, John McLeod and Rick Atelman. The Trailblazers teams that advanced to the NBA Finals and featured Clyde Drexler and Terry Porter in 1990 and 92. And those stand out Sacramento Kings teams that came close to reaching the NBA Finals that featured Chris Weber, Vlady DeVoxt, Mike Bibby, Jason

Williams, and others. Wetzel also discusses his Hall of Fam college career at Virginia Tech and playing on the same Lakers team with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. Also, he played with Pistol Pete Maribitch on the Atlanta Hawks. So if you're a fan of 1970s to 1990s, you're going to be a basketball, you're going to love this conversation. I've known Wetzel since I was a young boy,

as his son Mark is one of my best friends. John Wetzel is one of my favorite people in all of the world. So this was a fun conversation that we got to have in person. I think you're going to enjoy it. I'm joined by Brian Griggs. Griggs, how are you? I'm doing good. I mean, Wetzel is like, grab a little class of sipping whiskey, sit back

and enjoy the stories. I mean, he has always got good storytelling. And I mean, just the list you just named off the players he's played with and coached with the teams he's been a part of. I mean, just like the resume book is just continuing. And he's a great storyteller and has some great, great, you know, throwback story. So I love it. Well, I'll tell you

what, our audience is not going to believe what he signed for as a rookie with the Lakers. So stay tuned for that. But it's going to blow you out. I mean, we look at these contracts today. Yeah. And you basically get a million dollars for warming up and in the lamp line. And when you hear what he signed for for an entire season, you're going to

go, what? How is that even possible? But, you know, look, he got played in the NBA. And he played, like I said, with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor and Pistol Pete Maravitch and just some great story. So I would put this conversation in the same category as when I had Paul West head on who coached the Lakers to an NBA championship chip Schaefer who won many

rings with the bulls and the Lakers. Like this is story. He's galore. It's old school NBA basketball. These are teams at so many people remember that he was a part of. So it's a fun conversation. All right. Let's get to some headlines before we get to the conversation with John Letzel. Griggs, it's the NFL playoffs. We're down to the final four in the NFC. It's the

49ers at the Eagles for the NFC championship in Philadelphia. In the AFC. It's the Bengals at the chiefs and the AFC championship. Both games are this season. Sunday four marquee teams remain, which is great for the potential Super Bowl matchups. You've got Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Christian McCaffrey, Travis Kelsey and Jalen Hertz, just a few of the big names remaining. I'm going to put you on

the spot right here. Sure. Who's making the Super Bowl? Well, I was just thinking about that this morning because as of now, we don't really know if Mahomes is going to play. And if he does, he won't be 100% but I think if Mahomes is out, I think Joe Burrow runs the chiefs crazy. And when's that going easily? If Mahomes plays, it's going to be a

competitive game. But again, if he can't move, I still have Cincinnati winning that game. So I think since he's going to win in KC. And then I'm going with Niners, I'm West Coast boy. How do you vote against the undefeated, you know, Purdy? I mean, he'd the guy's still playing on his mind, Christian McCaffrey. And that defense is unreal. So I've got Niners and since the

Super Bowl. Do you want me to call the winner? Are we going to wait for that? Let's wait for that. But that would be a rematch of like long ago. Right. Those two teams met. Long ago for the Super Bowl. I'm going to go Philadelphia. Okay. I think they've been the most impressive team in the NFL this year. What we saw them do against the Giants

was just a clinic. I mean, Jalen Hertz, when he's healthy and he's running that offense. And the schemes that they're running and the weapons that he has and they're at home. I think Philadelphia wins that game. I do think it's going to be a close game, but I'm going to go with Philadelphia. And then I got to tell you, I can't go against Joe Burr. I

mean, this guy at LSU was money. No one thought the Bengals were going to get to the Super Bowl last year, which was really his first healthy year because he tore his knee, his rookie year. I can't bet against him. I mean, you bet against him at your own peril. He's taken down Josh Allen. He beat my homes last year. I think my home's his ankle

is going to give him problems in Kansas City. In that cold. So I've got a Philadelphia Cincinnati Super Bowl in Arizona on February 12th. And I think that would be a great matchup. I won't be surprised if the Chief's and the Niners, you know, win respectively. But if you're asking me to put my money where my mouth is, I'm going Eagles and I'm going Bengals to

get to the Super Bowl. I like it. So we got some differing opinions there. But I think that makes it fun. And you know, I mean, hey, in our in our lovely fantasy with underdog, I picked my my boy DK Mecca after go all the way. And that didn't work so well. So I you probably might have a little bit of insight on this. But we'll

see what happens. Well, we'll see. So here's a thing that's interesting is usually at this point of the season, even the Final Four. There's a team that's heading shoulders above the rest that is the favorite in Vegas. Right now here are the Super Bowl odds of the Final Four teams Eagles plus 260 chiefs plus 260 Bengals plus 270 five. San Francisco plus 275. Basically the same

odds for four teams remaining. And it's anyone's ballgame at this point as to who wins this thing. Those odds are according to Caesars. But Greg, this thing's up for grabs. Yeah, I think it's fun watching the odds now between now and February 12th. Have that kind of. You'll start to fluctuate a little bit. Go up down a little bit after these games, especially Sunday. But yeah,

I think it's fun having four, you know, fresh teams. It's fun having four, you know, just exciting teams. Good defenses, great quarterbacks, good offenses. You got some running quarterbacks in there too. I think it's, I mean, the two games this weekend are must watch. And I'm looking forward to the big day on February 12th. All right. A few other nuggets. 34 million people tuned in to

watch the chiefs and jaguars on NBC. It was the most watch Saturday NFL playoff game in eight years. So big, big numbers. I mean, 34 million. The NBA finals, the World Series, they dream of those numbers. This was for the divisional round. And again, I think most people who listen to this show know the Super Bowl attracts over a hundred million viewers. So these are huge

numbers that any TV network would love to have the matchup between Jalen Hertz and Brock Purti and the NFC championship game. Greg's youngest combined age ever in a conference championship game in NFL history. So you've got two really young people. And quarterbacks matching up, like you said, they've got great defenses behind them, but very young. So far each one is, you know, had a great season,

but the pressure is really on now to get to the Super Bowl. So it will be interesting to see if age comes into play in the conference championship and ultimately in the Super Bowl. Another note. The NFL has to refund over 50,000 ticket purchases for the what could have been. Buffalo Bills Kansas City Chiefs AFC championship game, which would have been played on a neutral field

in Atlanta, where the Falcons play. But since Joe Burr took down the Buffalo Bills, that's all out the window. So as he said in his post game interview, I guess we've got some refunds to issue if you're the NFL. So I think he took great joy in, you know, axing those plans and heading to Kansas City for the FC championship. But I think that's a lot

of fun. It's kind of a logistics nightmare. You had to get the field in Atlanta and all the planning and selling the tickets and all this stuff, and it turns out it's all for not. Yeah, you know, that's just that was an interesting storyline having that on the line. And I think burrow was definitely upset that he, you know, they were kind of an underdog. I

mean, I think the the media and everybody else was kind of planning on that Atlanta game. And then hey, didn't happen. So I loved his post game, you know, quick and short little tidbits, but he nailed it. Get the refunds ready. I love that. In today's day and age, most teams try and treat their players really well, you know, whether it's because you want them to

play well for you or you want them to resign with you as a free agent, you're going to go out of your way to treat your own players very well. You see these elaborate practice facilities perks for the players. Something happened after Sundays, Cowboys, Niners game that blew me and a lot of other people away. And you may say this isn't that big of a deal,

but it's one of the most classless things I've seen a sports franchise do in a long time. Right after the game, the Dallas Cowboys tweet this out, Griggs. Dak Prescott gave away the ball twice and the narrow loss to the 49ers in a matchup. The Cowboys had a chance to win if they didn't again generate self inflicted wounds. Now I'd expect this from Skip Bayless or

Steve and Ace. Smith or any of the pundits in the media from your own team, your own social media team. And as of right now, when we're recording this, which is roughly 24 hours after the post was initially put out, it's still up. You would think someone in PR or player relations would go, oh my God, like who in the world on the social media team

tweeted that out and made Dak look bad. Like, take that down right away. Nope. Still up. So tone, deaf and classless. That's the Dallas Cowboys. Dak Prescott, remember, Walter Peyton, Man of the Year, class act. Yeah, he didn't have a great game, but you throw your own player under the bus on social media from your team account. Griggs, I have no words. Yeah, that was ugly.

And look, football is a team big time team sport. You can't. Blame on one person. And I mean, what about what's his name? Ma, or that missed four extra points. We didn't get a tweet about that after the game because they won. But it's like, yeah, I mean, when I saw that to him, like, this, is this really? Yeah, check mark Dallas Cowboys. There's what I

just I couldn't believe it. It's just horrible. Well, as I tweeted out, that's the kind of stuff that Dak, the his teammates and the potential free agents, they pay attention to that. They will remember this tweet. And they will remember that it wasn't taking down. And they're going to go, I don't know if I want to play for that kind of organization. And yeah, you can

say, oh, well, as long as the Cowboys offer the most amount of money, the players will play anywhere. Maybe. But I think people are going to remember that tweet and how classless it was and how they threw Dak, who's a good human being and, you know, face of that franchise under the bus on their own team, social media platform. So shame on you, Dallas Cowboys for

doing that. And I hope there are other teams out there. That took note and don't do the same thing to their player. If their player has a poor performance and they're eliminated from the playoffs. Well, yeah. And it's just like you mentioned to maybe they tweeted out and then like, Oh, crap, that's stupid. Take it down. Nope. It's still float down there. They just like, we're

owning it. And that's, that's even makes it worse. I think it's like poor insult. The woman like, we don't care. We left it. We're going to keep it going. Yeah. All right. Other headlines. Total Major League baseball player compensation reached new heights in 2022. Payment to players top $5 billion for the first time reaching $5.2 billion. That's up from $4.5 billion the year before the Dodgers

had the biggest payroll. They had a $32.4 million luxury tax bill. $2. Don't forget they had new media deals with Fox TBS and ESPN that brought in $1.8 billion. They had sponsorship deals that added another $1.2 billion. So, look, as much as I'm critical of Major League baseball for some of the knucklehead things that they do, they are doing really well with their revenue. And you've

got teams spending money on players. And teams like the Mac Matt and the Dodgers and a few others who are willing to go into the luxury tax to pay to try and win championship. So all in all, Major League baseball is trending in the right direction when it comes to revenues and what they're paying their players. Well, we've saw, I've seen many big contracts this season.

I mean, the couple of big, you know, 250 to 75 range contracts long contracts long years. So we've talked about on past shows. But yeah, can you imagine getting that luxury tax bill 32.4 million. Outch, but I mean, it's good. Like you said, baseball, we need to keep it relevant. It needs to keep, you know, keep being one of the majors. If they want to keep

being in the top, you know, three, four major platforms out of her sports, they got to keep spending some money and seeing this go up as good. I'm not quite sure because I don't have it in front of me, but I think the luxury tax bill for the Dodgers that 32 point whatever a million may have been more than the entire team payroll of the Kansas

City Royals. Probably. I mean, think about that. Yeah. That's, that's amazing. Okay. You, you truly have the halves and the have nots and majorly baseball. Okay. More news. I think I told our audience in December. I played pickleball for the first time. However, I loved it. I played it for eight hours at my buddy's house. It was amazing. It's the fastest growing sport in America. 36

and a half million people in the US play. So growing quickly. Well, guess what, Griggs? They've got a TV deal. The association of pickleball professionals announced TV deals with CBS and ESPN, the tour announced on Monday. So Griggs, not only are people like us out there playing pickleball, but now you can watch it on TV. Would you watch pickleball on TV? I told Lou Wood. I've

played it many times. Every summer my family and we go to a black beat ranch over here in Oregon, Central Oregon. And they actually installed like five pickleball courts legit, like full of the nets and the court lines and everything. And it's great. It's, it's also got one that iconic sound of the mall hitting the ball. So it's just like when you hear it, you know,

it's pickleball. But yeah, I'm watching because it's actually surprisingly a good workout too because the ball doesn't bounce like a tennis. So you've got to really move around a lot and get close to the net and hit it down. It's, it's a fun game to play. I'd have to get sign off from my neighbors because of the noise the ball makes. But I'm kind of towing

with the idea. I've got some room in my yard. I'm kind of towing with the idea of maybe installing a pickleball court in my backyard. Griggs, we can't do that. We could do podcasts there. We could play pickleball. We could have our buddy Brad Kinser come over. What do you think? Pickleball in the, in the burger backyard. There you go. Somewhere afternoon, get some barbecue, some

steaks. Burgers going play. You know, have a little brew. I'm down. Let's go. I think in Oregon though, we'd have to, it have to be like Wimbledon. We'd have to have like a covered group. There you go. Or the pickleball court because it'd be raining like nine months of the year. So maybe a retractable roof. Like it. No budget. We don't, we got it all. Yeah.

If there's anyone out there that does retractable roofs for pickleball courts, let us know. You can add us at SB Radio on Twitter and let us know about that. But yeah. And, and by the way, I think I've talked about this with a lot of friends. Whoever invents a dense pickleball ball that doesn't make noise is going to make like $8 trillion. So, I think that's

what I'm going to say. So that's the other challenge I have for our audience is invent a pickleball ball that doesn't make noise. And you're going to be a gazillionaire. So, let's see if anyone does that. All right. A big announcement coming up very soon on sports business radio. It's really a game changer for our podcast and, and what we do. So hopefully that's going to

be next week. Might be the week after, but it is a game changing announcement for us. One that I've just been incredibly excited about. So we'll talk about that. Coming up on a near future edition of sports business radio. But coming up next, John Wetzel. If you love 1970s to 1990s NBA basketball. There are some legendary stories here. He played with Jerry West, Aldrin Baylor, Pistol

Pete Maravitz. She coached Clyde Drexler and Terry Porter. He coached Chris Weber, Vlaude Devots, just some really exciting teams. I think you're going to enjoy the NBA stories. That's coming up next with John Wetzel. You're listening to sports business radio. We'll be right back. When it comes to your health and longevity, you hold nothing back. You understand what it means to push harder, reach farther, and

go the extra mile. This relentless drive runs in your blood. That's why inside track or provide you with a personalized plan to build strength, speed recovery, and optimize your health for the long haul. Created by leading scientists in aging, genetics, and biometrics inside track or analyze your blood, DNA, and fitness tracking data to identify where you're optimized and where you're not. You'll get a daily action

plan with personalized guidance on the right exercise, nutrition, and supplementation for your body. And when you connect inside tracker with your Fitbit or Garmin, you'll also unlock real-time recovery pro tips after you complete your workout. It's like having your own personal trainer and nutritionist in your pocket. For a limited time, you can get 20% off the entire inside tracker store. Just go to inside tracker.com forward

slash. Now back to sports business radio with Brian Berger. All right. Well, this conversation has been a long time in the making. I've been doing sports business radio for 19 years. And we should have done this one a long time ago. John Wetzel Virginia Tech basketball Hall of Fame or former NBA player selected in the eighth round of the 1966 M. B. A. draft by the

Lakers. He also played with the sons and the hawks. Long time NBA assistant coach with the sons, trailblazers, nets, warriors, and kings. Father like figure to me for many years. I'm glad we're having this conversation. John, how are you? I'm doing fine today. Brian, I appreciate you're having me on. And as I would say, better late than never. Better late than never. All right. So when

you were drafted in 1966, how much was the pay as a rookie? Well, we didn't make enough money to retire on. My first contract as a rookie was $11,000. And that wasn't per game. That was for the whole season. And, you know, I think the first round pick Jerry Chambers from Utah. I think he made $12,000. And I don't know what guys like Jerry West and

Elgin Bailer made. I would suggest in the vicinity of $50,000 to $75,000. So I mean, I know this was 1966 and things were less expensive back then. But how do you live on $11,000 a year? Well, the whole cost of living was way, way less than it is today. I think my apartment on the outskirts of Los Angeles was, I think, was $95 a month. So

it's all relative and made less money. But everything was so much less expensive than it. And then in today's world. Okay. With the Lakers, you played with Jerry West and Elgin Bailer, right? What was it like playing with, you know, two Hall of Famers? Well, my rookie year, I, I, matter of fact, Jerry broke his wrist before the season started just the week before we started.

And I actually started the first 12 games of the season in his place. You know, I was feeling my way along. It was, it was a beautiful experience to play with those two guys. You know, I used to watch them on the floor and watch Jerry, especially play 42, 44 minutes, get 35 to 40 points, and then do it again tomorrow night. You know, we didn't

have a lot of days where you had mandatory days off. We would play sometimes two, sometimes three games. And I was amazed and fascinated that he and Elgin could play so many minutes back to back to back. And it was really a great learning experience for me. And I knew coming out of college after watching this, that for me to play more and to survive in

the NBA, I had to get in better shape. When you look at comparable players of today's era, or even the last 20 years, who's Jerry, last comp, and who's Elgin Baylor's comp? That's, that's a hard question. You know, you look at, Elgin was a small forward, he's six, five average double figures, scoring double figures rebound. I don't know who would be in his, in his category.

You look at LeBron, on Corsola Brown is six eight, right? And he's much bigger, much better conditioned. And I think that it would be a little bit of a comparison there. With Jerry, I'm not so sure that anybody, the thing that about Jerry that I really respected, he played both ends of the floor. He was a great offensive player, but he had great instincts defensively. He

had long arms, would get his hands on a lot of passes. If you get deflections, the things that don't go into stat sheet, I'm not sure who I would compare today to him. Some of the other players of your era that stood out. I mean, Will, right? Yeah, Will was playing. As a matter of fact, I played with the Lakers the year before Will got traded

to the Lakers. And when I was in Phoenix in 1971, the Lakers won 33 in a row. And our team, the sons, we were victim twice to the Lakers in that streak. And it was, it was no contest for that long period of time. They were so good. And incidentally, the streak began. Elgin retired early that season. And Jim Millen came in and played his position.

And that's when they started that, that streak that, I don't know, I don't know how they, they did it. But every game went their way. And they were such a good defensive team that it was, they were really hard to beat that for that stretch. And it's fun to be part of it. So I've had Paul Westhead on former NBA coach. And he talked about how

there were Laker practices on the asphalt in Los Angeles. Because there was no practice facility. There was no gymnasium available to them. When you were with the Lakers or just a player, in the NBA, what were those conditions like when you practiced? Well, they were primitive at best. You know, when I was with the sons, we would practice at St. Mary's high school a lot. You

know, a small gym and it was hot in there, no air conditioning. And I think all the teams had to, had to scrounge around to find a practice facility. Nobody had their own practice gym or their own work. Wait room or their own massage therapist. It's none of that was, was in existence. We had one coach. When I played for the Lakers, we had Butch fanbreda

cough. And he was the only coach. He ran the whole practice by himself. He didn't have a whole bunch of assistance sitting behind the bench during the game. And it was different. We, we flew commercial. We flew and as a matter of fact, my rookie year, we flew in coach. We would go from Los Angeles to Boston or Los Angeles to New York. And you got

these seven foot guys sitting in the back and making the best of it. And there was no discussion about, well, we have to fly first class. That was just a fact of life. And it was the way it was. And I'm not saying it was better. It was harder. But today, if a player or a team had to do that, I think there might be a

riot. I think you're right. And then, like, people are sparking up on the plane back then on TWA, right? Yeah, it was, it was, it was not a pretty sight when you take off and they turn off the seatbelt sign. And, you know, the front third of the airplane fires up a cigarette. And it's, there was no division between smoking and no smoking. The only defense

you had was to open the, the, the error from the top of the airplane, hope to blow it away. Yeah. The relationship between players and the media back when you played, you know, now they're such a division. It seems like back then from the stories I've heard, you know, you're going out and having dinner, maybe having a beer. It was a much different relationship back then.

Is that right? Yeah, it was, you know, the each team had a one or two beat riders that would travel. And when we flew commercial, they would just get booked on the same flights. And it was different because it was a lot of fun. Because, you know, you may give them, they give them a ride to the hotel. You may give them a ride to the

game. And it was, it was more of a personal relationship among the, the players and the press. And generally it was, it worked out good. It was, it was a good situation. You knew what the riders were about. They knew what you were about. And there was, there was no spying on the players trying to get a scoop or trying to get a story. Maybe a

little bit out of line. And it was a lot different, a lot different. You looked at the media in a, in a different vein. And, you know, generally, the relationships were pretty good. One of my earliest sports memories is, I think it was the 1976 NBA final, Sons Celtics and the shot heard round the world. And in that game, you know, you're on the bench as

a player. Pat Riley, I think is on the bench as a player. John McLeod is coaching the Sons. Tommy Heinsen, I think, is coaching the Celtics. You've got John Havelichek, Dave Cowan, Joe Joe White. But it's one of the greatest games ever played. If you have a chance to watch it on YouTube, audience, go watch that game. Was it game four or five? Do you remember?

It was, it was game five in Boston. We had, Boston had won the first two games. We go to Phoenix. We had won the second two games and go back to Boston and lose game five. And it was a triple overtime game. And we were, after the game, we were just emotionally spent. And we go back to Phoenix for game six. And we, the Sons couldn't

muster enough energy to get over the hump and Boston wins and six. But it was a great game. And people today still talk about a lot of people have watched it as you said. And, it was a terrific, terrific back and forth. And they made plays. Paul Westfall made a play. They have a check. When made a runner going to his left, which he never uses

left hand. But this time he did. Garfield heard makes the shot to tie. So it was just back and forth and back and forth and very emotional ending to the game. And the crazy thing is there's no three point line back then. So Gar heard shot is a three. It wins the game. If there's a three point line, I'm sure you could go back to the

game. Back earlier in the game and find other plays that might have been three pointers if there had been a line. Yeah, it could have been. But, you know, as you say, there was no such thing. But you played, you know, every shot was a two point shot. So it was just, it was a terrific to be part of that. Even though I never got in

the game and observed from the bench. But one of my great memories. How bad was the boss? The Austin Garden locker room. I've heard all the stories. The cold water, the rats, the, you know, they make the visitor locker room as bad as possible back in the day. I'm sure it's nicer now. Well, you know, they, I've heard those same stories. I don't think it was

that bad. I think I can remember going in and the heat was turned way up. It was hot in the locker room. And we had to open the windows. There's even though it's the middle of winter. That kind of thing. You know, other than that, it was, it was okay. It wasn't as bad as people make it out to be. And, you know, Red Albaek had

a bag full of tricks anyway. So probably that hot intense heat could have been reds turning up the thermostat. All right. So you retire as a player and you transition into coaching. What was it like transitioning from a player to a coach? Well, it's a, it's different in your response. Responsibilities are entirely different. When you play, you're responsible for yourself. You're conditioning. Your attendance. On time

you at practice at the games. On the bus and at the airplane. As a coach, you have. You're responsible for the players as well as yourself. You have 12. We had 12 players on the roster and. You have to. Make sure that you are aware of what. Their needs are more than yourself. And you. Obviously cater and not not necessarily cater, but you. Do the things

that you have to do to make them comfortable with the coaching staff and with with each other and. And sometimes at the level of the NBA, you get. You get some egos involved. You get. We're two or three players may, may. Butt heads and they don't get along. And you have to monitor those situations. But. I've often said if you have a healthy locker room, it's

really fun. It's a lot of fun. And guys pull for one another and. And help each other. You know, during the game, everybody gets up and cheers for one another. And if you get a situation like that, the. The. The. The business of being in the NBA is. A lot of. Satisfaction. A lot of fun. And there's nothing like it. But. If you get a locker

room where you have. Couple of factions pulling against each other. Some people don't want to be coached. And you go to practice. And it's like. Pulling teeth because. A lot of times you don't get. Accomplish what you need to get accomplished to be a good team and a cohesive team. Tell our audience about John McLeod. I think he was the first head coach that you weren't

assistant for when you became an NBA coach, right? Yeah. John. I played for John. My. I played for John last year in 1976. He was a. He came from college. So he had a certain amount of. Spirit about him. A certain amount of camaraderie with the players that. The. The veteran. Some of the veteran pro coaches. Kind of didn't get involved as much. John was terrific.

A lot ofHSs were well run. And. He treated all his players with respect and he treated people around them with respect. The guys at work. In the arena. The guys at turn to lights on the guys at scorekeepers and as well as the. Present and a general manage. He's obviously. Those are people you work with. But he treated everybody with respect and not learned enough just

observing him and. He was terrific. He was we you know I became an assistant and we became good friends and spent a lot of time together and. Therefore while we were both running marathons and we did a lot of training together so I really got to know him quite well and he was at the time. One of my best friends. You spent many years as an

assistant coach the other head coach that you spent a lot of time with was Rick Adam who was disinducted into the basketball hall of fame. We had a great run in important in particular. We were always with Rick for six years in Portland. And we went to the finals twice in 1990 against Detroit 1992 against Chicago. We didn't win a championship but we were there. And

then we. Had a two year. We went to the finals twice in 1990 against Detroit 1992 against Chicago. We didn't win a championship but we were there. And then we had a two year. We were in the. Short stay at Golden State and then six good years at Sacramento. Our Sacramento team was terrific as well. We had a lot of good players and they wanted to

be coached and they liked each other so it was a lot of fun. Rick. Rick was a player too. He played during the time that I did and. When he got ahead the head coach in Portland. He made an interesting statement. He said I want to coach my players. The same way I wanted to be coached as a player. In other words as a player sometimes

you see coaches do things for. Just to be in control for no reason and he was very aware of what needed to be done. In other words if we practice hard we get our get our players in shape. And once the season started and your players are playing a lot of minutes. 38 to 40 minutes. Well. On the off days he would not demand a real

physical practice. He would say he said we got to have them ready for the game and that that's the way he coached and the players really respected him. Rick was terrific as a coach. He was understated. He never called any attention to himself and. He gave the players the credit. You know we were good and he would talk about the players in the media. He would

never. Talk down about the players but he always built them up and gave them. The satisfaction of knowing that. He understood how well they played and how hard they played and he gave them the credit. So with Rick what were your duties you know he's the head coach what are the duties of the assistant coach well you know Brian we didn't have designated titles like defensive

coach or you know. Special teams coach and out of bounds coaches. We were assistant coaches and for the most part. I would work with the big guys you know during practice that we had we break down and do our drills and I'd go down with the big guys and. The other assistant would generally take the guards and in. Six seven guys on one end and I

take the the centers and power forwards or one end it work on drills footwork shooting in. Defensive drills and that's that's. Generally what what I did and. As well as doing a lot of scouting reports you know we at the time. We didn't have a staff of scouts. That were dedicated to scouting the assistant coaches. Would take. A particular team and do the scouting report. The

next game the other assistant may take and do the scouting report we would alter me back and forth so that that was a big response. So that was a great opportunity to do the preparation of the team and going through the opponents and the personnel we I did a lot of that too. So the Blazers team that you guys coached. Clyde Drexler Terry Porter. Drone Cursey

Kevin Duckworth Buck Williams Danny. I think. Draws and petrived was on one of those teams. And then Sacramento had. Tris Weber. Buckleau Mike Bibi Jason Williams I mean some really talented players on both teams. Is it true like. You know you put a certain kind of offense in like I guess the question is. Were you guys running the same type of system with the kings that

you did with the Blazers. Not necessarily I think there are some similarities but. In Sacramento we had our center was such a. Good passing center bloody debuts. And so we used him a lot. As a passer you know we run the ball through him and the other players would would make cuts and he was so good he would he would find them he was in he

was a seven foot guy you could see over a lot of defenders. And we we specifically used bloody in a lot of action that would get other. Stuyacovic and Mike Bibi and get them open. For shots and contested in that worked out well for us. Important our center was Kevin Duckworth. Who was more of an offensive center. And he played more in the low post and

we run if we ran anything through Kevin was generally with him in the low post so he was close to the basket and he could. Nothing happened on their cuts he was in a position to make a little. Turn around jump shot or turn around hook shot. So we changed just variation just not nothing drastic but. We have kind of adapted to who we have. So

1990 NBA finals 91 you could argue of the three years 90 91 92 91 was the best Blazers team lost in the conference finals to the Lakers 92 lose to Michael Jordan and the bulls fast forward to 2002 Sacramento Kings play the Lakers in a classic. And the Weston conference finals so many like close times to to winning the ring. But that that 2002 Kings Lakers

I mean it's see there are some controversies in that series but. That's one of the best series I've ever watched. Yeah it was good we we played them well we matched up well and and we couldn't get over the hump we had a. The game in LA where. The free throws there was a big discrepancy in the free throws and. There's a lot of talk about

how that game was officiated and you know you. You learn you can't dwell on those type situations because. They don't stop the season to stop the game you got to you got to go on and prepare for the next game and it was it was tough to take but. We had a good had a good season and nothing to be ashamed of and then like you

mentioned 1991 in. In Portland that may have been our best team we I think we won the most number of games that year but. I think it was 60 plus games 63 and 19 I think it was wow and we just couldn't get by the we never got by the Lakers you know they were always an emphasis in. We play in Sacramento we're playing in LA

and. Write down towards the end of the game and there's a big scrum for a rebound of bloody divots tips of that you know clock was running down as a few seconds left he tips it right to Robert or. Who jumps up to make jumps up and makes a three and we lose by one so. That that's kind of the way we. We. Play it against

the Lakers seem like always there was one player two plays it. That hurt us and we couldn't get by them when you look back on memorable moments of your career as a player or coach what are some of them. Well I think as a player my rookie year with the Lakers was such a. You know even though I didn't play a lot of minutes it was

such a. Good experience watching good players not after night and being part of that team you know we went to the finals against Boston that that first year. Yeah. And I think in as as a coach probably our team important was the most. Most satisfying we had some good teams in Phoenix to with coach McLeod and. Same kind of deal we couldn't get by the Lakers

we we'd play them in the finals of the West but. Just just wasn't meant to be and Lakers were always a little bit better in. As a player I think my most. Well I played with Pete Maravitch in Atlanta too and that that was an experience playing behind Pete and watching him do his thing he was probably the best I ever saw with the ball he

was just terrific with the ball and. We weren't very good for a couple of years that I was there with Pete but it was a great experience just to be on a team with him and. And Phoenix we had. We had some very good teams in the last year we had Paul Westfall Alvin Adams. Dick Van Aarsdale. Keith Erickson we had some real quality players and

no superstar just a nice blend of talent but we weren't quite good enough and. But it you know that you can't. Base your career on how many championships you win you know there's only one team that wins every year that every team that. That makes the playoffs. Ends their season with the loss except one the team that wins a championship every other team that's in the

playoffs they end their season. With the loss and they go home and they don't they don't feel very good about it but. That's that's the reality of the NBA and every year. When you start training camp there are great expectations you're going to do well you're going to make the playoffs and. You know the season plays out as it will. And maybe you're not quite as

good as you had hope to be or maybe you're a little better than you hope to be but there's great anticipation and. There's so many games where you can. Prove that you're going to be a good team and sometimes you're not quite so good and that's that's part of it too yeah. So you retired. What someone say relatively early from coaching and from the NBA. You've

thoroughly enjoyed your retirement splitting your. And you're enjoying the fruits of your labor. To all of our listeners out here who may work in sports. For who may not know when to walk away how'd you do it. I was born in 1960 and I could have continued to coach. Rick Allenman asked me was I sure I wanted to step away. And I think the main reason

that I decided to is the travel kind of got to me. You know, being on the road 90 days a year or whatever and play a game and you get on the airplane 11, 30 at night. You travel two hours in the air and you get off and go to the hotel and you play the next night. You play that game and you get back on

the airplane and you go someplace else. I had kind of gotten tired of the lifestyle. And I didn't want to work till I couldn't do anything when I retired. And you know, my wife and I, we enjoy a lot of things. We travel a little bit. We're active with exercising. We paddle out of the canoes in Maui. And we do. We really like that. So we,

there are a lot of things that we have been able to do. And if I had not retired when I did, I would be too old to start that right now. But it worked out well. And, uh, you know, have good friends in Maui. We have good friends in Tucson. And we, we like our lifestyle. And we think it's, uh, it fits us perfectly. Our kids

are grown. And, uh, so we, we try to be outdoors and do something active every day. Well, the other thing I've noticed too is all the relationships that you made over the course of your career who became good friends, whether it was as a player or a coach. Um, you know, there's an opportunity in sports or whatever business you're in to connect with people and make

friends. And you always did a really good job with that. We, you know, I think we say we have good friends in both places. Uh, you know, I've been, I'm just thinking I've been retired. My last year in the league was LeBron's first year. Wow. And he's in his 20th year. I've been, I've been retiring in, in old fours. So yeah, we, we have people that

we stay in touch with. So my coaching peers, guys I worked with, I, I don't talk to them all the time. But, you know, two, three times a year, I'll pick up the phone and talk to, like, Elston Turner, who we worked with in Sacramento. And he was important for a while. And, uh, some of the, uh, mostly from Sacramento. And I still have a, a

couple of people from Phoenix. I talked to him. And it's, it's, it's fun. I have some peers that live in Phoenix, Tom and Dick Van Arsdale, Jim Fox, uh, Dick Snyder. They all, they settled in Phoenix. And I'm in Tucson. So occasionally we'll get together and, and have dinner or something. And it's fun to see the old guys and tell a few stories. As you get

older, the story seemed to get better. We became better players. I've got older. I want to go back to pistol peat because again, so many people of this era never got to see him play unless it was on YouTube. Um, just a really unique player, but you said you enjoyed playing with him, trying describe him to our listeners, Pete. Pete Maribache was about a six six

point guard. He was a point guard and ran the team. Uh, here, like, like I mentioned, he was a, like I mentioned, he was a player, like I mentioned, he played a lot. And he's, his handle was beyond anybody that I've seen. Jason Williams, who we had in Sacramento would be in his category, but Pete was, uh, ran the team and was it he could have

been a great shooter. Except I thought he took some tough shots off balance and, you know, the shot clock runs down and he'll take a while. I was a five or 30 footer and it hurt his percents, but if he had taken real good shots all the time, he would have been terrific. But, uh, he, uh, wasn't a great defender. He didn't like to work on

that in his well. And I tell people, uh, they brought me into Atlanta because Pete played 45 minutes a night and I would play three. But the next day in practice, Pete would play maybe three and I'd play 45. I was a practice player. You were like a stunt double. Yeah. Exactly. But, you know, it was okay. It was okay because that was, that's the way

I was. What I was expected to do and I did it. Yeah. All right. Last question. Uh, when you go back to Virginia Tech now again, you're in the basketball Hall of Fame there. Um, just a tremendous player in college. What's it like when you go back? It's, it's, uh, it's different. The school is about 30,000 now. I think when I was there in the 60s,

it was maybe 6000, maybe 5,000. And, uh, there's a huge basketball practice facility. There's a huge football practice facility. You know, as, as a, uh, modern convenience has become necessary for recruiting, they, they have kept up with the times and, uh, the case, I go to a game and see, see, we'll have a basketball reunion. And I'll see some of my peers guys I played with

and, uh, some a little younger. But it's, uh, I think that's what I was expecting. It's always fun because, you know, I had good memories back there. That's when I really had a chance to play a lot of minutes. And I was a, I didn't realize it, but looking back, I was, I was a pretty good player. I don't like to talk about myself, but, you

know, I did some things that were, were commendable. I mean, if you made the NBA, you're obviously a player. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was, you know, now I tell people I was picked in that you said the eighth round, but there were, there were, when I got drafted, there were only eight teams. So I was like, pick number 70, you know, today I'd been as, second

round pick or something, but there were only 10 teams or eight teams. And then they expanded the brought Seattle and, uh, San Diego in. And then when I went to Phoenix, Phoenix had just been a brand new expansion team. They brought Phoenix and Milwaukee in. So the league expanded and created more jobs, which is good. And now I think there's 30 teams in the league. So

there are a lot more, more jobs and a lot more money for the players, which is good. And, uh, but it was, it was kind of primitive. I got drafted by the Lakers. And my roommate was a college, uh, baseball pitcher. He was powerful in baseball pitcher. I go to the baseball game. And I think it was April or something. And he comes up to the

fancy. So you, by the way, the Lakers drafted you today. I didn't know. And that's all really. And, uh, so I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm living in the dorm and going about it. My

business going to college. I'm going to class, going, here and there. And about a week later, I get a phone call. It was from Lou Moes, the general manager of the Lakers. And he called me on the dorm phone. I didn't, you know, we didn't have phones. So I had to, the guy came and got me had to go answer the phone. And he was telling

me about rookie camp, whenever I'm going to have everybody come in. But today it's obviously, it's a great, a big show now and everybody goes to New York and, uh, back the end of his lot, a lot simpler. So you found out a week after you were drafted that you were, you, that's when you got the call. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's no urgency to call

because I was seventh, eighth round. And, uh, you know, they told me when the first week in June, we're going to fly me to Los Angeles. And, uh, that's, that's the way it worked. And they said you were making 11,000, 11,000. Yeah. After rookie camp, I think they brought everybody in a room one by one. They would talk to you and they didn't know if you're

going to get invited back or if you're going to go home. So I go in and they said, we like what you did. We, we, uh, we want you to come back to veterans camp in September or October. I can't remember what, what month. You said, here's your contract for $12,000. No, no agent, no negotiation. But that's the way you, that's the way the league was

then. And, uh, you know, I talked to other guys that played different teams. It was pretty, pretty much the same all the way around. And then when the ABA came into existence, that's when salary started going up. They're, you know, they want one with bit against the other and the top players were starting to get upwards of 80,000, 100,000. That's when it started increasing. All right.

I'm glad we finally did this. I know we need to wrap before I let you go whenever I watch the game. If I heard a whistle, I knew who's whistle. It was. So we have to send this interview with your whistle. You want me to whistle? Oh, yeah. You got another one to break. No, no, you got it. This is the best whistle in sports. It's

better. And if you actually have one of those blow whistles, this is you got to end it on on a whistle. All right. How's that? That was good. All right. All right. John. Thank you so much. Okay, Brian. Thanks for your time. This episode of Sports Business Radio is brought to you by Underdog Fantasy. The fastest growing fantasy app ever released and the official gaming partner

of sports business radio. And with early investors like Mark Cuban, Kevin Durant, Adam Schaefter and Jared Goff, I know that Underdog Fantasy is made for people like me who are on the go and want something quick, easy and fun to play. And today we've got a special offer for sports business radio listeners. If you sign up to Underdog Fantasy using the promo code SBR, they're going

to double your first deposit. Up to $100. No risk, no long term commitment, just sign up using promo code SBR and your first deposit is matched up to $100 for free. I already played Underdog Fantasy on the Underdog Fantasy app. But if I didn't, I'd use that for $100 and go for a pick them contest where I can bet the over under on individual players or

team matchups. Or maybe the best ball mania three contest worth $10 million in total prizes. All you have to do is click on the link in the description box below. So if you're a professional player, you can just click on the link in the description box below. And if you're a professional player, you can click on the link in the description box below. And our friends

at CG Sports who power sports business radio. CG Young, Matt Amarlin, Nicole Wardle and Calvin Works. I'm Brian Burger. Have a great week and we'll talk to you soon right here on sports business radio. This and every SBR podcast is available on Apple podcasts. Spotify, Stitcher and your favorite listening app. Follow sports business radio on Facebook, Twitter at SBRadio, Instagram at sports business radio. And online

it sports business radio. sports business radio is produced by Brian Griggs and Griggs Productions. Griggs Productions.com.