Miami Bitcoin 2021 Reflections

Welcome everyone to POV Crypto, the only podcast that both Bitcoiners and Ethereum listen to. I'm David Hoffman, here with my buddy, Christian. Christian, how you doing? You're in good, man. I am in the Florida Keys and yeah, this is the last thing I'm gonna do before really just shut the not the internet. Fuck yeah, you absolutely deserve it, man. How long are you in Florida for?

Oh Friday. Oh, oh, you got a while. Yeah vacation mode. Full vacation mode. Twitter, right? I got you off my phone telegram, delete off my phone. You know automatic reply set up. Not even crypto is going off, huh? Just just yeah, you guess the price went down. That's what I've seen. Let me tell you I was picked up and think it's a little more than you

are. Yeah, I know, I'm just looking at my little ticker here right now. Make sure you're on the right microphone and then also tell me about how Bitcoin 2021 went for you. I had to sound that bad. I think about that. No, I just can't tell. Oh, yeah, you are. You are. Okay. Well, it was it was good. I retweeted it. You're welcome to. How was

it? Tell me more other than that was good. So what I got in on Tuesday, conference happened on Thursday and it was just a whirlwind. It was a lot of work. I don't know if any of the listeners out there have ever run an event or done an event, but you kind of on your feet the whole time. Yeah, it's a really cool experience kind of

them was stat was on the sacking stats stage, which is the smaller stage. And we did the certain Bitcoin circular economy with a lot of really top notch CEOs in the space. And then immediately is that. And then I ended our head of content, Brandon Green calls me. He's like, Hey, I need an emergency moderator for main stage session. And it's with Mike Novigrad's and Charles

Custorello, who is the CEO of Paxus, the company behind PayPal getting crypto. So I was like, Oh, shit. All right, I got to prepare for that. But ended up pulling that off as well. So got two sessions in, got to get on the main stage. Now, I'm going to go to the main stage. I think blew up overall success. Yeah. Well, that is the absolute like

perfect skills of a podcaster that you've been practicing for that moment for years. And so glad you took opportunity by the horns. Oh, yeah, totally. I think people really underestimate what doing, you know, hundreds of podcasts, podcasts, actually like, you know, instrumentalizes in you having some sort of interview skills, some sort of ability to just audible, fuck it, we're doing it live. It's a pretty, it's

pretty solid. I'm not mad about it. Conversation leadership. That's for sure. Yeah. What was the final headcount? More than 13,000 people. Yeah, we're then 13,000 people at the conference. Yeah, biggest crypto slash Bitcoin conference ever. Yeah, I mean, it also must have been, I mean, I could be pulling this out of my ass, but it feels right. But like, the biggest event in the world since

March 2020. It was like right, it was the Super Bowl was right after you left Utah. Oh, yeah, people did 13,000 people go to that though. A lot of people went to that. Yeah. Oh, okay. All right. Well, but it was the second. Second biggest. I can't cancel this. And it moved from L.A. to Florida too. Fair enough. Yeah. So overall, you know, biggest Bitcoin conference

ever, Bitcoin or tar on the front lands of freedom. As, you know, like, I don't think it's. So I think it's a surprise that Bitcoiners were the first ones to, you know, say, fuck it. We're getting together. And I really think like the pinnacle of the conference has to be Jack Moller's announcement at the end of the conference where he announced that he had been working

with the president of El Salvador and that Bitcoin was going to be legal tender and El Salvador. So, I mean, it's kind of hilarious to see price dip on that news. But Donald Trump even had to respond to that today, getting on Fox business saying that Bitcoin's a positive scheme. So pretty, pretty fucking huge. American rumors are just going to be the last to go. Yeah.

I mean, cool. Let's elaborate on like, can you just elaborate on why that's like as big of a news as Bitcoiners think that it is. Bitcoin's legal tender in a country. I mean, yeah, that's just like the next thing, you know, how long has it been since sailor announced that Bitcoin was going to be a treasure asset? Yeah, I guess it fits exactly into the Bitcoin

or narrative that you got the Bitcoiners have been chanting since like the beginning of time. But why don't you think it was reflected in the market? Yeah. So, I think that's what I'm saying. I mean, I think the price dip for about a month after sailor announced that he was that that was acquiring Bitcoin. You know, we're still in a relief cycle of, you know, I

guess a small blowoff top at 66 K and then a lot of froth in the Altcoin space. Yeah, this seems normal. Seems like the market is going to like slowly react to this news. There's going to be a lot of fallout. But it was pretty insane to see the conference just covered on every nature news outlet. And obviously this news and this announcement being like national

news. Right. Yeah, there was like just a fuck ton of peripheral stuff, which speaks to the magnitude of the actual like centerpiece, which is Bitcoin 2021. Like Bitcoin 2021 was so big that like all of the crypto people went anyways, even though it wasn't crypto 2021, it was just Bitcoin 2021. Yeah, what was your experience like? So I only went to the, went to the actual

conference Friday morning. And my experience was that it was definitely oversubscribed. It was a saturated conference. And so like the main stage, like, if you wanted to get into the main stage, you'd have to wait in line. And you weren't necessarily like able to get into the main stage. You could you could watch it from elsewhere. But a it was suit. I mean, it was super

attended. And so I mean, congrats to that. The Bitcoin art. I was speaking to you. I'll find about this. The Bitcoin art was top tier. I think that was my favorite thing about the conference. Just was the sophistication and depth of Bitcoin art, which I think is art is a very telling thing. And so like when you have sophisticated art, you have like a sophisticated culture

community. It's quite deep. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I definitely I definitely wanted to meet more Bitcoiners there. But I also wanted to go off and meet all my Ethereum people. So I'm kind of bummed that I didn't really I saw Rob crypto Bobby Rob Hound. In walking in, I wanted to talk to him a little bit more, but I lost track of him really quickly. I never

got a chance to meet Nick Carter. Didn't it didn't get a chance to meet the Winkle Vi at the conference, but then they they invited me to their party afterwards. And I almost made it, but I didn't and I ended up just but texting them later that night instead. So that was like my highlight of the trip is like, but texted the Winkle. I. But yeah,

we have come. We have come. But texting the Winkle wise pretty pretty nice Flex right there. The funniest thing is when when he texted me about their party, it was Cameron Cameron texted me is like, Hey, David is Cameron Winkle boss, Tyler's the other number as if it would have been anyone else. Oh, man. I'm. See it. I'm. I'm done. Thanks. I'm done. I'm done. I'm

done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. Sometimes, yeah, but, but mostly my, my, my fun times was like the evenings like 5 p.m. onwards, party with a mean ceremony. That was cool. Look at look and Lucas from the banquet squad. Yeah. Oh, I mean, it was one of those things I

was too much to do into a little time. So like time management was really like a really interesting thing and it also very much felt like a college a college like very busy active Friday night or like a college like trip to like Vegas or something. Where like everyone is in their own little pods and everyone's trying to figure out like, all right, where's, where's everyone

go and like, where's the party? Where's the party at, bro? Where's the party at? And like, people are trying to get into parties and people getting denied from parties. Very, very, the whole party scene that very much felt like college vibes. Yeah. And I mean, the conference itself very much had like music festival vibes. It was not a conference. It was a goddamn festival. It was

a festival of Bitcoin. Yeah. I mean, definitely was and I think, uh, Antel Linder who actually went to the conference, he, he called me after and he was like, this is the first time I like can confirm in my gut that Bitcoin has gone mainstream. And like the Bitcoin culture has, or subculture has kind of gotten to like a critical mass. But also like the crypto

culture and the crypto subculture has gotten to a critical mass. Like how many people are going to go to the same place? People do you think were Miami just to celebrate Bitcoin and crypto? I think there were equal to, if not and decently more people who weren't going to the conference that were there in Miami because of the conference. Like I would put, I would put

myself in that mix. Yeah, I would say like, so let's say there's 13,000 people at the conference. There's probably like 25 to 30,000 people in Miami for crypto. Which is absolutely insane. Like I was meeting like non crypto people who were somehow were intermingled with crypto people. Like, and it was one of those things I would ask them to background. It's like, oh, I'm, I'm working

fintech. I work in a bank, I'm an investment banker. And I'm like, all right, well, how are you here with all the crypto people? And I mean, I was kind of drunk. So I can't really remember the answers. But like the answers were non intuitive. They're not like, no, I had a friend or a connection is like, no, we just met people in Miami that were

associated somehow were involved with all the other crypto people. Yeah, I bumped into a decent amount of that. I was running the store at the conference on Friday, which sucked. Thank God, all the interns who worked their ass off both days. But that was a brutal, brutal task. And I can't tell you how many people I came up to me. I was like, what's the best

hardware wallet? And it's like for anyone who knows anything about hardware wall. It's like, that's not a super easy answer. It's kind of a personal idea. I guess a lot of the etharians would say it's ledger. You know, ledger probably has the best support for, for Ethereum stuff. But for Bitcoin, it's definitely a lot more nuanced. There's like four or five, like, pretty solid wall. It's

out there. So yeah, it was just like, it kind of gives you a taste of like, you know, how people were there, spent money to be there, a decent amount of money to be there. But yeah, we're only very loosely or early into like the crypto rabbit hole. Right. Like COVID did two things in addition to all the other bajillion things that it did, including in

and out of crypto. COVID did two things. Put all of the crypto people who were used to having a bajillion conferences every single month on pause and told them you got to stay home. And then it also made crypto assets like fucking moon. Right. And so by the time that like it's time to have events like now everyone is rich and everyone has this pent up

demand. So like socialize with other crypto people. And so those are the leaderships, right. That's why Bitcoin 2021 was a conference for 13,000 people, not 1300 people. And there are so many normies coming in the, in the wake of all these fun crypto people ship hosting and having a good time that they want that they want to be about that life too. So they'll pay a

thousand dollars to try and like tap into the freedom and the energy of Bitcoin 2021. Yeah, no, definitely. And it was like the OGs paid. 300 bucks to nothing because they knew someone. And then like the, let's just say the newbies who are just scratching the surface, buying it very late. Pledge tax. Pledge tax. Yeah. Yeah. But seriously, seriously, just how it is. What do you

think we go from here? Like I know for a fact that many other big events are watching this. Right. Like we were the number three event on event break. In the first half of Q one or of the first half of of 2021. Again, not that much. You know, it's an achievement. But it's also like that's how few events were actually happening. And one, one of

the key distinctions that we made versus other events is like other events were trying to be like hyper compliant. So that way everyone feels comfortable. And we were like, Hey, we're going to have an in person event. If you don't feel comfortable with that or you like aren't healthy, like don't come. Mm hmm. Come at your own risk. Right. I mean, I didn't, it wasn't think

about COVID at all. And then you kind of broke up right there. I didn't even, I didn't think about COVID at all while I was down there. I'm fortunate. I'm literally two weeks and two days out of being getting my second shot. And so technically I'm vaccinated. And I'm, and I was like, cool. I'm vaccinated. Fuck, fuck COVID. Like I'll put on a mask if you

ask me to, but otherwise, fuck COVID. Like, and that's just kind of what the culture was. Like it very much felt like COVID was not a thing, except for ubers and lubers and lifts. We had to wear a mask. And even then like the live drivers, they weren't wearing masks either. I mean, I'm sure that was one of the strategic choices about Florida versus San Francisco.

But still very much felt like COVID was not a thing. Oh, yeah. I mean, when we, when we realized in January that Florida was open. And I was looking in California and people were wearing N95 masks on hikes, you know, and it came pretty freaking obvious that we should move, we should move the conference to Florida if we wanted to actually have an in-person event. And

yeah, like it was as if COVID did not exist. My wife told me that, hey, it feels like COVID doesn't exist. It feels like we're pretending that COVID doesn't exist. But I think for a lot of people, it's also waking them up. Like we'll see what the actual fallout, fallout is right. But I mean, even everything seemed normal. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I guess I shouldn't speak

too soon. Cause like, you know, incubation times or whatever. But like, we'll cross that. I'm not I'm not celebrating too quickly here. I was I was also talking to your wife at some point in time. And she was like, yeah, I'm really excited for the Bitcoin conference. I'm just kind of worried. About like the potential like PR issues, if like Bitcoin 2021 turns into like a

super sprinter event that like delays like the whole opening up thing by like a month or so. But again, we will cross that bridge if we come to it. I'm I my money is basically on definitely on the it's not going to show up on the radar anywhere. And I mean, if a Bitcoin event doesn't show up on the radar then. Then yeah, I think the

single lot he had totally. Totally. I spent. I don't know. I want to say that. Um, uh, well, there's just fucking partying in clubs and like I play I was playing Goucho ball. Uh, and so like to mix drinks like whatever. Uh, and so like, Gouching Goucho ball is not COVID friendly whatsoever, especially the strangers. Yeah. Yeah. It was also it was outside though. So now

I'm kidding. Um, uh, okay. So here here's you want to hear my hot take. Uh, Bitcoin 2021 and Bitcoin as a community culture at large and especially at Bitcoin conferences. They elevate the loudest people to the stages and the loudest people tend to be the most extreme maximalist. And so the most extreme maximalist get the most air time because the Bitcoin community and Bitcoin culture gives

the most extreme Bitcoiners the most air time. And so it's the most radical Bitcoiners that get the most air time. And as a PR and like represent. And that's the biggest expectation, uh, aspect of Bitcoin. It's absolutely terrible. It's, it sets the industry back like years, not years, but like it sets the industry back. Like you know who I'm talking about. You know I'm talking about.

So who are you talking about Max Kaiser? Oh. I don't know if it sets the industry back because I think a lot of really important people have credited Max Kaiser as being important for orange filling them. So even though he may not appeal to you. I don't know who knows. Like I don't think that that's entirely unfair is what I'm saying. But you know it's hilarious.

Is that a vast majority of Bitcoin plebs complained to us at the main stage. Had way too many suits and shit quenters and not enough real Bitcoiners. Yeah. But how many how many real Bitcoiners are there a lot? Yeah. I'm saying. Yeah. But when they say real Bitcoin and we gave them sage time. Yeah. I'm just in like who's to say who a real Bitcoiner is?

Well, there's a lot of people on the internet who who think that they know. But they, but doesn't just that's not one homogeneous group either because they could all have conflicting ideas as to who a real Bitcoiner is. Exactly. Which is not. Which is why we're in this mess in the first place. Right. No one gets to be appeased. But like it's impossible to appease everyone

for sure. But like I would I would I would tend to like agree with them kind of like you know that I'm definitely much more open minded than you know the average toxic club. But at the same time like I would also you know I would agree and disagree right I think that there's a lot of people on there that I considered Bitcoiners that maybe people

wouldn't or that I would consider not shit coiners people can consider shit coiners. And then there's people on there who are like yeah like fuck Floyd Mayweather. Like fucking dumb money. Mayweather. Like that guy's a shit. Fuck Floyd Mayweather. But can't can't tell you guys a story about Floyd Mayweather. Please. So he shows up to the conference wearing a fucking Ethereum t-shirt. No it was it

was a fucking Ethereum like trying to ride off the co-tails of Ethereum. Is it like a scam t-shirt? I'm pretty sure it was a fake Ethereum thing. So he shows up wearing a scam t-shirt. Yeah in Ethereum scam coin t-shirt. He shows up wearing that. Brendan Green looks at him and he's like you have to take off your shirt or else you can't go on stage.

And Floyd's like fucking Brendan Brendan Green told Floyd Mayweather. He has to change his shirt. Yeah he's like no you can't get on stage unless you change your shirt and Floyd Mayweather said fuck you. And then he's like I'm sorry. Like you can't get on stage unless you change your shirt. And then that's awesome. And then we got have a bunch of Bitcoin magazine t-shirts. He's

like I don't want to wear that shit. And then he looks at like one of his guys in his posse. He has his biggest posse. He's like give me your shirt. So he takes his like friend shirt. And then he went in the friend shirt. Just like random design. You know that's hilarious. That's amazing. But then he gets off stage and he just got Floyd Mayweather

to change his fucking shirt. Yeah. That's awesome. I mean I hate that because of what it is. But the fact that Brandon Green told Floyd Mayweather to get a change that's so fucking awesome. I both hate it and it's awesome. So if you if you like that you should go follow Brandon BTC my boy. He was responsible for like a lot of the content of the

conference. I think he did a great job in general. How did you do with the show? How did you go Tommy? Yeah I fucking bet. Yes. And also shout out to him. Tommy for the art. Yeah. So let's talk about the art gallery a little bit more. I personally thought it was the cleanest part of the conference by far. I thought it was awesome. There's a

cool place to hang out. Yeah. And then big vibes. Big vibes. And Bitcoin art is deep. Bitcoin is deep. And we've talked about this Bitcoin and crypto. You have to be a polymath to like really get it. You have to like kind of have core competencies in a lot of areas. And you can tell that the artists behind Bitcoin. Those Bitcoin art pieces were like thinking

on another level. They're kind of like polymaths. Totally. One of the big lines that I really like from Jordan Peterson is that like history is first written by the artists. And it's not written down in words or text. It's like it's depicted in art form without words. Like you can sometimes something you just can't describe. You can only like illustrate via art. And so like history

progresses with the artist leading the way. And I'm definitely saying that with like this. So I think that's what I'm saying. I'm really saying that with a Bitcoin art for sure. So did you see the glad are the mirror full node sculpture? No. Yes. Holy fuck. That was amazing. Oh my God. That must have taken a thousand hours. So I got some facts for you. Yeah.

So mirror full node sculpture made by fractal and crypt. It's I think it's seven. Oh, it's the other seven of 10 or seven of 21. But they all have a number. Michael Saylor owns one. You know, they've been bought. So I should bid up at different prices. Most of them are made out of wood. You know, he makes a sculpture out of wood. This one he

made it out of a mirror. So it was like really special and really cool. And this one got purchased for 15 Bitcoins. 15 Bitcoins. That's that at the time that was half a million dollars. Half a million dollars. I just should have gone for more. When I was walking through the the art gallery, I kept on thinking it's like, God damn it. These everything here should

be NFTs. I mean, a bunch of them were NFTs. Some of them are on liquid. There's like a couple of NFTs on liquid now. Yeah. Oh, that's hilarious. That's too funny. We're getting heat for for the NFT presence at the conference. Naturally. Naturally. It's weird. Like the thing with NFTs is like one. I feel like NFTs are very good for mass adoption. Like I personally think

shit coins are good for mass adoption. I think shit coins are going mainstream. Like I put out a tweet that got a lot of action. But I was like the coin maximalists are under delusion that like the the normies are going to wise enough to shit coins. When in reality, the normies have just gotten used to shit coins. Like shit coins have gotten normalized. Like the

stock market has turned into a shit coin market. Yeah, shit coins. And yeah, like this point in Fiat reality, shit coins are exactly what the market wants. Mm hmm. Like I'm happy to gamble on like Doge verse YFI versus rather than like Apple or Tesla. Like Doge, doge verse DeFi tokens, verse, whatever. Sounds like a way more fun, a way more fun to me. I mean,

when you're living in clown world, fundamental still matter anymore. Like it then fund is more. Okay, so what's your take on Doge? Doge is a store of value. So Caitlin Long, she was getting interviewed by someone on CNBC CNBC. Yeah, have I told you this? Have I started off the sentence before? No, okay. So she was being asked by the host of CNBC. Like Caitlin, can

you please tell us the difference between Bitcoin, Ethereum and Dogecoin. And Caitlin, Caitlin was like, yeah, sure. Bitcoin wants to be a new base money. You know, it wants to be a new store of value and new currency to denominator. And then because Caitlin's kind of like a kind of Bitcoiner. Caitlin is a Bitcoiner. Then she like started to like then she started to define Ethereum

and like in her very, very PIO. So they are politically correct way. Like dead at Ethereum, but only if you know, if not only if you're in the crypto world. Right. So then she turns to Ethereum and goes Ethereum is trying to be something completely different. Right. And applying that it's not trying to be a base money, even though ethos ultra sound money. And she goes,

you know, Ethereum trying to be a smart contract layer, you know, like, you know, like world computer blah, blah, blah. And then she goes and Dogecoin. It's actually not all that different from Bitcoin. I swear. Oh, God, she said that. I was like, do you realize what you just said? You just said Bitcoin and Dogecoin are the same thing or roughly not that not that dissimilar.

And the point I'm getting to is that Bitcoin is a meme as money is a meme. Dogecoin is a meme. And there is so much engagement farming with Dogecoin that it's actually a part of the fundamental analysis for Dogecoin. Right. TikTok, TikTok entertainers, TikTok dancers are making dances about Dogecoin. Taco Bell is giving away free crunch reps of premiums if you pay in Doge or something.

Like, so PR companies are are are are farming the Dogecoin engagement farm for their own benefit. And it's working. And it's pumping Dogecoin. And it's, but Dogecoin is the store of value. It's a meme. It's a great meme. It's a new store of value. Okay. Well, I mean, I think so there's a really good podcast on Castle Island with Alex. So Thorne and he talks about

Dogecoin. Did you listen to that one? Yeah. I mean, there's definitely some key things that are different between Doge and Bitcoin. One of them is like the actual network itself. Sure. The Bitcoin network is like a finely tuned machine that propagates blocks like extremely efficiently. And, you know, clears the mempool very inexpensively. Whereas like Doge is like a really old shitty car that has a mid

oil. In terms of Doge as a meme, Doge as a mind virus, I completely agree with everything that you've said. And I mean, I. Like I have to say, like I'm definitely accumulating some Doge now. I wish I had a large position for sure. Well, I had a small Doge position. And I sold half of it for a sense, which was obviously a mistake. Right. I

mean, you made a bunch of yeah. So you were buying it below. Yeah. Right. But I think when I'm now I'm accumulating a 30 cents. So I have. I have five GME shares. And when I finally sell those things for the unit price of infinity, because apparently that's what I can get for them. I will be selling my GME shares for Dogecoin. Just to keep it

in the memes. Keep it in the memes. Yeah. I mean, whatever. But like, so there's I want to talk about something that I think that they're going to get really wrong. Is they like say like, Oh, Bitcoin, just a meme coin. Bitcoiners are Neanderthals. And like, I think that's completely wrong. That's completely off. And though I think the power record. I have never heard a big

coin has been called Neanderthals before. I've never. Bitcoiners are the leadites of crypto. Bitcoiners are the boomers of crypto all this stuff. But then like you look at the art. Art's fucking deep is all like you look at the Bitcoin culture. Bitcoin culture's deep is all. Bitcoin's deep is all. Bitcoin rabbit holes deep is all. Like I don't know. I feel like there's a lot more

to it. That doesn't make number go up. That doesn't make number go up. I think that I think that that is signaling that there's something extremely real happening here. That is a lot more than what necessarily appears on the surface, which is like slow block times. And not a lot of like fancy features. And here's what I was saying this all weekend. And I've been saying

this for years now is that Bitcoin, the idea is bigger than Bitcoin, the crypto network. The idea of Bitcoin is massive. The actual magnitude of the crypto network is not as big as Bitcoin, the idea. Bitcoiners have really big ideas. But that doesn't. And then they and then they say it's about that's what Bitcoin is. But it's not actually it's what they are doing is they

are actually talking about crypto, not Bitcoin. So this is where I disagree is like I kind of see what you're saying. But at the same time, I think that you just like fundamentally disrespect the legitimate computer network that is the Bitcoin network. Like this thing is an absolute beast. This thing has a lot of beast. I mean, again, I just said you fundamentally disrespect it. Like

that's your base position, which is fundamentally incorrect. But it's an absolute beast. Like there are there are hundreds of thousands of nodes. There's hundreds of thousands of users. It's the wrong. It's like 150,000, or 150,000 terror hash. You're judging. You're judging. But Bitcoin. How much of Bitcoin it is. One of the big things that Bitcoin has said back in like 2016, 17 and 18 is that

if it's useful, it'll be built on Bitcoin. That is actually coming true on Ethereum, where if it is useful, it goes in the Ethereum. And so that's one of these crazy big ideas that is not being found on Bitcoin. And it is instead being found on Ethereum or in other app layers, like Cosmos or whatever, right? There are there are. And so it doesn't matter that

okay, great. Bitcoin has tear to X would a bajilia hashes. Great. It had it produces blocks super efficiently. Great. It has users. It's still just a proof of work scripting language blockchain that does one thing and one thing only which is shuffle. Bitcoin's around. And I think that that is exactly what it needs to be. And it's it's not money. Yes. That is need to be

anything else. Bitcoin is enough. Yes. Bitcoin is enough. It is not what crypto is. It is just Bitcoin. That's fine. But that's actually a lot more than what crypto even needs to be. I know crypto crypto can be crypto. Bitcoin will be Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the sound money app. So and the Bitcoin network in terms of like what it is for the earth. It is bringing

the earth's energy online. So nothing else is doing that. It's the only player in in town. And it's extremely, extremely lucrative. And Kathy would end up Bitcoin magazine interview. I did it with her was talking about a consumer energy producer. And so that's what I'm going to say. So an energy producer that is can as producing energy for end users. 35% of the of the money

that they fund raise was going towards Bitcoin mining. Guess what Bitcoin mining is useful for balancing their their grid for balancing their production. Only in in so far that BTC has value. Right. So like yeah, but it's self those things compound on each other. Is extremely liquid value network. And then that's what I think. And therefore, and then therefore it's worth it to mine it and

therefore it's useful. And so if you're if you're based case is bear that Bitcoin is going to have value. Then it's like. You're going to get wrecked like and even if Bitcoin lose that loses some value. And it loses hash rate on the network. There's this thing called the difficulty adjustment. Right. And so this is why when we started off the podcast and like El Salvador

announces that Bitcoin legal legal tender. And I'm just like me. It's one of those things like like great El Salvador can make Bitcoin legal tender, but it can't make it's the people of El Salvador want Bitcoin. Right. Bitcoin has to want make people want Bitcoin under its own merits. And Bitcoiners love to say that everyone ultimately is going to want sound money because that's what sound

money is. We will see. We will see. But right now Bitcoin the US D chart on Bitcoin not looking so hot. And like this industry moves real fast. And so like there is there has a big Bitcoin has a limited window a closing window to make every single person in the world want it. Because as we know, Bitcoin is secured by number go up. I mean

all of these networks are secured by their fundamental value their game theory by number go up. All is it's a combination of many things. And I think Bitcoin's situation is extremely sound. All of it is fundamental. So those are extremely sound and the price is healthy. Like we're at the 200 day moving average hovering around it. Like that's pretty much support. Like I think you accumulate

here again referencing the interview with Kathy. You know, but institutions don't want to don't like to top take. With that being said, like institutions constantly bucketing Ethereum and with Bitcoin. Sucy bucketing Ethereum and with Bitcoin. So there's no reason to say. That Ethereum is not also legitimate asset. I have a little ticker here at the top of my thing that is Bitcoin Ethereum and Doge. There's

a three group of currencies I actually even take seriously. So pretty much ignore everything else. Pretty much ignore everything else. I think that Ethereum. Yeah, no. I mean, like I always respected Doge to some degree. Just because Doge also has a macula. It has an immaculate conception as well. Like the fact that Jesse Palmer is resentful towards Doge and apparently has sold it all of his

doge is definitely a macula conception. But what Doge doesn't have going for it is behind Bitcoin has worse monetary policy and the actual physical network that's on the internet is significantly worse. Like the Bitcoin physical network is the best in class. And I mean, there's no box. They're being orphaned on the Bitcoin network. Like this thing, like if one block gets orphaned, people are like, oh

my god, it was a reorg. Like that's fun. You know, like that's one orphan block. Like that's how fucking efficient this thing is. It's a freaking beast. Yeah, I just don't. I just don't. You can see the connection between that, which you can talk about how awesomely efficient and like lubricated the Bitcoin network is between that and people actually buying the thing. Like there is a

disconnect there. Like you're going to have to use other reasons to make other reason for other people to buy it because 21 million is going to constantly being reinforced as a meme as knowledge as a reality that's enforced by the physical network. And 21 infinity divided by 21 million. Again, again, so you're saying like this, like if your base case is Bitcoin's fundamentals are wrong. Bitcoin's

game theory is broken and that 21 million is not enforceable whatsoever, which I think is a lot of Ethereum's base case. Which, which, which, which again is why the hearings are doing all the things that they're doing, right? It's like literally the architecture of E2 is based on the base case that that Bitcoin's game theory is broken and that its fundamentals are wrong and the 21

million is not possible. It's not based on that. It is that. I mean, that's what I see. That's like it. So based on that base case. Then yeah, that's your opinion. But I think that that base case is completely off. You have to have a base case that is. If you look at the fundamentals, the base case should be that Bitcoin is sound in terms of

its security that 21 million is something that's achievable. The proof of work is a good thing. And proof of work is useful. I think I think the possible version of the future that Bitcoiners always are discounting or just refuse to think about is that Bitcoin has modest modest success somewhere between the price of 60 and $300,000. And it's in a top 10 crypto assets for the

rest of time. That's a perfectly plausible version of events. And you know what the Bitcoin Ultra sound money meme did. For the world and the scarcity and permissionlessness and you know, a net physical network and Sanctiated by math showed the world that that was possible and invalidated the whole entire industry of crypto. But not Bitcoin necessarily as the number one. Right. It shows the world that

all those things that you just said are really cool and possible and viable. But they don't have to be instantiated and Bitcoin and Bitcoin alone. And so Bitcoin has modest modest success. It stays in the top 10 crypto assets for the rest of time. But it's not the leader. And it's not. It's not like manifest destiny to pump forever until the end of time. And it

just hovers. 100 K 200 K maybe 300 K call good. We'll see. Like I mean, isn't that like this whole game like and it is about allocating your chips correctly. I think that the best thing that Ethereum has going for it is that it is the home of the Cantalon effect in crypto right now and we live in the world. So so eat really fits in

well with fiat clown world, which kind of goes with my thesis that is skew morphec to fiat clown world. But I think that that's why I think it's miss why Bitcoin's so important because Bitcoin's actually what it's destroying clown world. Like Bitcoin is like, but that's the thing is turning the world back into sanity. The Ethereum app layer is allowed to have issuance or scarcity. It'll

have whatever the market wants it to have. Does the market want perfect scarcity scarcity? Then the tokens on Ethereum will reflect what the market wants. Does the market want seniorage and like alpha and investment games because the world really likes investment games. Like that's product market fit yet. Ethereum monetary policy is something much closer to Bitcoin's than any sort of fiat currency. What's up Hunter? Yeah,

just it's so it's it's kind of funny. It's like imitation is the greatest form of flattery. So coins monetary policy is like this and it's like. And then the already. Yeah, it's gonna go. Yeah, again, again, according to your model, according to your model, not reality. Again, in reality, Bitcoin's. Stair step. Okay. And you know, as as that reality continues to cement itself, the meme and

the knowledge and the ability for that information is spread across humanity is going to get stronger. I believe that too. All right. I think it was a good spot to end it. I want to go bed like an hour ago. So at least we got this one. We're still three hours ahead. All right, brother. Well, congratulations on throwing the biggest crypto event of all time. Shaka.

Shaka. All right. See you on the other end. Thanks, everyone for listening to Peter crypto. You can follow me at Trustless State, both on Twitter and on bankless Christian. Yep. At CK Anderskosz.narks and check out Bitcoin magazine. Of course. And Bitcoin 2022. We already got tickets on sales. Take it on. You can buy it for $300. We're also dropping a on chain analysis and market fundamentals.

New seller called the deep dive. So check that out as well. Check. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.