Laser-Eyes, NFTs, and Crypto-Religions

Welcome everyone to POV Crypto, the only podcast that both big corners and a theory is listened to. I'm David Hoffman, here with my buddy Christian. Christian, how you doing? You're good men. Life is good. Getting settled in a new place, this will be one of the last shows that you see in this room. So I'm gonna start designing my new studio, which is gonna be fucking

awesome. Can I recommend a background of plants? They're really fantastic for a background. You know, I will have plants, but it's not gonna exactly be your style. So... Yeah, sorry, it's the listeners. Well, so long as there's some plants. Plants are just the best background. We had to take our legs off. Laser eyes off for the show. So laser eyes are off while we are while

we are live streaming, but you know, they were honest. Second ago. Yeah. I think it was like on Thursdays. Like, how do you put laser eyes on a fractal? And then Greg, who was one of like the original laser eyes to 100K guys put some laser eyes on me. And it was actually fractals of laser eyes. So if you zoom really close into my Twitter icon,

you can see you can see the laser eyes through there. Oh wow. I did not know. I noticed the laser eyes. I didn't know that there was a fractal laser eyes. I'll have to take a look. Dude, we don't just laser eyes here. We fractal laser eyes. Yeah, exactly. So how do this meme come about? I know this meme goes back to Nick Carter, but from

what I can pretty sure it goes even further than him. So I mean, there's three memesters in the Bitcoin space, RD, Greg and chair force. And these guys are degenerate memeers. You know, there's some degenerate traders and they're degenerate Bitcoin memeers. And they just started doing hashtag. I think it was as Bitcoin was ripping like 1000K every single or every two hours or so or a

thousand hundred dollars, a thousand dollars every two hours or so. And they just started it and they started DMing people and you know, it was just so easy to signal that you were lost. So I was like, I'm not going to be a big fan of Bitcoin with the laser eyes. I just exploded. And then when Senator Lumbus put it on Friday morning, like that was

next level. There's so many people ripping the laser eyes. Yeah, it's a really deep heads. Even the e-tests, right? It's such a fantastic meme because like, it shows, it shows like unity and solidarity and just like, it's a massive shelling point. And there's no better way to communicate just like the raw power that is just coming out of Bitcoin. Then just Bitcoiners having like laser eyes.

Like, there's so much unbridled energy that is coming out of the eyes of all the memesters. I think it's fantastic. Yeah. No, I mean, we are reminded that Bitcoin has a lot of really good memesters on team Bitcoin, which is awesome. I'm a fan. Yeah. It's very powerful. Like, it's very, it's very, very appropriate that the coin that needs to meme itself into existence has an

army of very, very strong memesters. It's like, you literally can't be more bullish. So I mean, like, I've heard things like you posted a few weeks ago. I think it was like the, the ETH BTC reversal moment when you said, I have no BTC. I think that was like right on the tippy top. Oh, was that the top? It was close. But, you know, you said

that, you know, how many people were commenting under your tweet saying, have fun staying poor? Like, I mean, that, that made you bullish. So like, I think you have a nuance view on, you know, the memes and the toxicity on Twitter. Yeah. Yeah. It depends on what meme we're talking about. It's, it's very, very, very bullish that a bunch of Bitcoiners all just like snap into

place and all put laser eyes. And like the magnitude of the snapping into place and, and stepping into line and all showing consensus in your tweet. And this is again, once we give, and we give, and then we can cover everything from diversity. And all we want to do is this week. So I mean, we drive together a cycle, and then we can push, and we

we can ask in these meetings, and then we look at this question and ask when they can end up with the professional are the layers zero to systems. You know, Ethereum Bitcoin, they have their L1, but it's the people that make up these systems. That's the L0. And when like a such a wide and distributed set of community members, all just like you in a moment

is in a sign of solidarity, a moment of solidarity, I'll put like laser eyes on on Twitter. I think that's pretty fucking cool. Yeah. So I mean, I want to throw another question at you like over the summer, you know, one of your gimmicks on Twitter. Twitter was that you're slaying frogs like you're going after that. But at the same time, you know, you admit that

it is bullish. And okay, you know, any, any, any coin that was pumped on forechan, went up a lot, link being, you know, the prime example of that. So I mean, what you're like, what should you take on that? Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't specifically slaying frogs. And like I do have a much more favorable and nuanced view about frogs after that whole debacle. And you're totally

right. Like a lot of that same energy is the exact same. Like of distributed set of participants who all like come to a shelling point and start doing the same things and acting in the same way. The reason why I was going after the frogs though was that like frogs were branded as like this army that pumps coins. And so it could be co-opted, right? Like

what protects Bitcoin is that you can't co-opt Bitcoiners. Like you can't get Bitcoins to shill your shit coin. Like you can't do it. You can't be done. But frogs, you can get frogs to shill your shit coin. Right. And if you make a bunch of frog accounts, and then with your frog accounts, you sock puppet them and start talking about your coin. Like you can co-opt

that whole energy. Like Bitcoiners are not co-optible. Like they are about Bitcoin. That's what their deal is. But frogs are co-optible. Like you can you can try and steer that movement if you put enough energy into the system. So I mean, where's the lesson here for Ethereum, do you think? Right. So like I was kind of the one initially I was like people started a couple

of theories started to put laser eyes on and I was like, you know, like all the big corners of doing it. And I'll tell you what. I'll put red eyes on like if we start doing it, like they're just going to fucking shit on us for being copy cats and blah, blah, blah, which is exactly what happened. But at some point, like there was enough Ethereum

know what we're doing it. Like there's already enough of us doing it. So like let's fucking go balls to the wall with doing it. And at some point like I raised this question to Brandon Quidem who poached fun at Ethereum is like just a bunch of copycatters and like, you know, big corners are really good at meme adoption and Ethereum are just copycatters. And then I

quite my question to him is like, how come when Ethereum is doing it, it's not meme adoption. It's copycatting. Why isn't it meme adoption? And I think and my claim to him was like, well, in your eyes, it's not meme adoption because you have a bias towards Bitcoin and you view Ethereum as the out group. And like, you know, it's the Bitcoin who started it and

they were predominantly red and orange laser eyes. And then Ethereum's came in and they was more blue. Blue and purple like laser eyes, but still laser eyes is still laser eyes. Let's not connect purple laser eyes to to Ethereum. Okay. Because your boy is is is OG on the purple. Right. So like there is some some like fluidity between the colors. Right. But like at some

point it's just it's just this is same meme. It's the same meme. It's the same. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, so I mean, I get why big pointers want to dunk on Ethereum. But I would always also say like zoom out like Ethereum is our big winners. It's just a slightly different flavor. And I mean, like, I think it's pretty interesting seeing people like Mark Cuban

Gary V get in on like the NFT explosion. The the DeFi explosion loss of what's going on in Ethereum. And like, I mean, I think that these are people want to flirt with Bitcoin, but it just doesn't make sense to them. Like I truly think like one of these topics is like, what if Bitcoiners and Ethereum are right. Right. Like, you know, I think big pointers

are right. It's still for me like I'm not as convinced about like what's happening in the outside of Bitcoin space, like the longevity of it. But I mean, I can tell you that it's really good at attracting people that wouldn't get Bitcoin in like and bring them closer in. Mm hmm. Yeah, totally. One of the one of the more the bold cases for Ethereum is that

Ethereum has a lot more service area than Bitcoin does, right. Smart contracts are service area, right. And one of the service areas that is really being being leveraged right now is NFTs, right. All the people for some reason NFTs like resonate with a lot of people that like cryptocurrency and currencies and monies like they don't really care about that. But they care about the NFT and

like rare digital art side of things like that. And this is one of this is like Mark Cuban statement is like why he's bullish ether over Bitcoin as a money is because like all that service area, you need ether to access all that service area. And Bitcoin is just Bitcoin. Like it's just Bitcoin Bitcoin is what Bitcoin is. And that's what it is. And there's not

much surface area because Bitcoin is literally the reduction of surface area rather than the expansion of it. Well, I mean like I think it just that has to do with what you think blockchain is useful. So I think it's a really good thing to have a lot of people for. I would say that Bitcoin plugs into the existing internet stack really great. And it's the native

internet or money of the internet. And obviously has like the dominant store value property of any cryptocurrency. So I would push back that Mark Cuban kind of gets it. But at the same time, like in terms of like where certain like token ecosystems live. Like absolutely. It's on the Ethereum and like you know either whether it's like leverage trading. Like without a KYC or the NFT

thing, like you know, it's clearly happening on Ethereum. We're has our direction of conversation gone. We went from talking about memes to talking about surface area and NFTs. Or I mean, on my list is I have a laser eyes. So we cover that Bitcoin and ETH price, which I think is an interesting conversation. Maybe that's at the end. NFT explosion. And then what if they could

get an NFT? Coiners and ETH has a right. Where does the value crew? So I mean, maybe I don't know. Maybe we just go to price and then we get back and get try to go back and forth on that last point. I don't know. Let's keep talking about NFTs. And I want to hear your opinion on NFTs. So like what's Bitcoiners? I'm assuming the average

Bitcoiner opinion about NFTs is like, oh, there, it's a bunch of noise. Like what's your opinion? So I mean, I have the opinion that Altcoin products. So I think these two products on NFTs can be very positive for the space and drive a lot of interest, ultimately toward Bitcoin. So I feel the same way about NFTs. But like I posted this on Twitter, like I think

two weeks ago. I was saying, like, Allcaps. All NFTs are trending to zero and Bitcoin terms over a long enough time horizon. And then I retweeted that in Altcaps saying every Picasso is trending to zero and Bitcoin turns a little bit. And then I'm adding, that's a good thing. So it's not how I feel about art or NFTs or non-funchable tokens. I think that this is

an opportunity to get on the world, like, fabric of value. As it goes through its monetization cycle. So I think there's a time to trade your big coins for some other thing that brings you delight and is scarce. But it's just not right now. This is kind of my frustration with Bitcoiners. It's like when I asked them, I was like, well, what do you think about

NFTs? Generally 99% of the time the answer is going to be like, well, this is about hard money and they're going to zero and Bitcoin terms. Well, I didn't hear anything about the potential monetization that it offers creators or the job opportunities that it offers creators or the uniqueness of art and digitally native art or the possibilities of the combinations of patterns and a blockchain and

how that can be created into a specific visual form of an NFT and the creativity that unleashes and how this might be like the access, the unleashing of a new era of art. I hear none of this. And there's so much more in the conversation. Yet big coiners are always like, well, it's going to zero and Bitcoin terms. I'm like, well, that's just sure. Like we

can talk about how it's hard money. But like, what about the whole other side of the whole thing, which is the NFT side? There's a complete lack of appreciation. I mean, most big coiners are literally forgoing everything in order to accumulate more Bitcoin. With that being said, a lot of big coiners do collect NFTs. A lot of big coiners really like rare items. Like I think

a lot of big coiners, you know, are pretty disposed towards collecting. Like a lot of big coiners, I know the CEO of BTC Media is a huge collector of all my brothers. I'm the biggest collector. So like, I definitely think that there's something there. But you got to know who you're talking about, you know, go talk to an oil and gas guy about frickin electric cars.

All these amazing things that Elon Musk is doing. And he's going to just dunk on it. You know, it's just like, he's like, oil and gas is not going anywhere, bro. It's necessary for how the society functions right now. So I mean, I think it's a matter of a conversation. And I think there's just an inherent turn off to people in the Bitcoin community right now,

at least the maximalist. Who don't want to use Ethereum infrastructure turned off by it. So I don't know how that sentiment is going to change over any period of time. I have a cryptocurrency and I have an NFT made by a young GGT. I think I gave him to ETH for it when ETH 200 bucks. So I hope he uses it ethosly. Yeah, I was going

to ask about Tommy. So Tommy is your coworker at Bitcoin magazine or BTC Media. I mean, and he makes an FTCs on Ethereum and sells them. And I'm assuming some of that revenue he goes and buys Bitcoin with it. So that kind of makes him a very unique individual. He's kind of doing the thing that I was saying, which is what makes NFT so cool is

it allows people to create art and then make money. And that money can be BTC. And especially if you're a Bitcoin or you like BTC, right. There seems to be a lack of conversation or a lack of these types of people around. What does Tommy have to say when he like I'm sure he has to deal with his friction. Well, we have to get him on.

But I mean, there's a lot of things that I'm going to do. There's a lot of those people. There's a lot of Bitcoin artists that are doing NFTs on ETH like slightly begrudgingly and a lot of NFTs are Bitcoin based and they know very much like Bitcoin oriented. But I mean, absolutely, there's that ecosystem. Just like if you want to leverage straight without KYC, you know,

where is it going to be? It's going to be on Ethereum right now. But, you know, you have to separate that from the investment thesis. And yeah, Ethereum can do and enables really cool things right now and is a hub of markets right now. That's undeniable. But again, you can be playing around in this thing. But if you don't recognize that Bitcoin is money in the

center of it all, I think you're going to get wrecked. That's just my opinion. Sure. So, I think that's the reason why I think that Bitcoin and NFT on Ethereum and this random Twitter account added me and they're like, yo, trustless date. Like, isn't it super ironic that like Bitcoiners are mincing NFTs on Ethereum? And I'm like, no, no, it's absolutely fantastic. Like, why would that

be ironic? Like, this is good tech. Like, why is there irony here? Like, this is just like ever since the start of POB crypto, I've been on this fucking trains since day one. It's Bitcoin and Ethereum. And then that's where the line is drawn. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it that's it. And there's a minute. It hasn't been since day one, but I think it had pretty early on, pretty early on. I did start off as a polyblock trainer, but then, then it quickly coalesced collapse down into just Bitcoin and Ethereum. I mean, it's been like that for the vast majority of BUB, BUB crypto. Yes. Yeah. You're, you're,

you're, you're, you're, you're shitchaining has, uh, was a short stint. Yeah. So you're welcome. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was your, that was your efforts. That was you. I think that this is, I'm going to cut you off, but you also started off this conversation. It's like, well, a lot of the theoreans are actually Bitcoiners. I'm like, well, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I mean, like,

I mean, I think that POV crypto is the best podcast in, in, in crypto. So, um, in terms of like actually bringing like elite, uh, thought and opinions and knowledge of both communities to, uh, one forum that there's literally nothing that compares yet that I've seen. So, yeah. Again, to the listeners, you're welcome. Yeah. And I get, I get great points. David, I've learned a lot

from David. So, uh, Bitcoiners done gone David, but you know, he's my boy. He's going to be one of, uh, one of the groomsman at my wedding. So he's a man. Oh, wow. That's public knowledge. Huh? Cool. We can talk about this. Sure. I can't, I can't wait to be shoulder shoulder with any other big corners in the groomsman pod. A groomsman party. Are there any

big corners of the groomsman party? Uh, I'm not going to dox the rest of the party, but David's going to be there. Uh, well, if you could say yes or no. Uh, I mean, most of the people we know, dude. Oh, so there, I'm going to be the only other crypto person that's going to be in the theory and this is going to be great. Yeah.

I'm not at the wedding, but, uh, but in the, in the, right, in the party. Yeah. Neoner, Neoner, you big corners. Law. There I go. God damn. Um, oh, I mean, how do you feel? Like, uh, last week price wise was like fireworks for Bitcoin, but you did pretty well too. You know, across 2000s broke all time by itself. And then this morning, just the dump.

I think this is like the biggest dump that we've had since like the end of DeFi summer. This is like the biggest pain that we felt for a while. I mean, maybe for altcoins, but for Bitcoin, I feel like we went from, uh, yeah, pretty to like 30 something. Now I mean, uh, in January, January was, was, uh, I was stacking at 30. He on, on

cute. Oh, yeah, we did go from 42 to 30. Still, though, we have just gone up so high. Maybe it's just because this is my, my second bull market. And I'm also a very Zen individual. And I've, I've come to terms with the fact that like pain exists. And like as soon as you come to terms with the how pain with how pain exists in crypto

markets, then all of a sudden, it's not really painful. So like, but I, I have felt zero pain like this entire time. And I am like irresponsibly leveraged at the same time. And so like, there's that weird juxtaposition of like a lot of leverage in zero pain. And like, I've, I felt like this is absolutely unreal. Where like number just goes up, up, up, up, up.

And like finally, like of today, we finally feel like the first pain that we fell in a while. Anyways. So I mean, how are, how are you managing your leverage, uh, but also like feel uncomfortable because part of like leverage is that if there is a big enough drop, like there is a liquidation price, right? Like, are you just like nowhere close to that? And you've

just been levered long since like 80, 80 bucks in your good. Like what's, uh, what's the situation? Yeah. The last time I took leverage was that one thousand 40 dollar ether. So like pretty safe. We're pretty safe here. Um, the, the, I do have a pretty high liquidation price, because I actually don't hold a lot of my assets in the actual, uh, it's an AVE. I

don't hold all my assets in AVE. So I take leverage, but I don't put it back into AVE just because then that reduces my contract risk. So I have leverage and I have a higher liquidation price, but I have plenty of assets. They're just not in the application. Um, and so I actually did have to do that this morning where I put my money back a

little bit more back in AVE to backstop it. But like still, it's like, you know, like, I'm just gonna do this just anyways, but still, like, I'm fucking fine. Like, there's no, there's nothing. There's no way that this is how I'm not getting liquidated. It's not gonna happen. Um, I've lost my, I lost the most money I've ever lost today by, by a long shot. Yeah.

Well, I mean, like when you look at a Warren Buffet, you know, he loses billions in one trading day, but it's because he has billions. Right. Yeah. But, um, aren't you like, worried about congestion being insane on, on the Ethereum blockchain when you, uh, in a crisis moment, where you need to cover your long? No. No, I'm not. But I'm privileged because I've been in, I've

been in crypto for a while. Right. So, A, I'm likely not gonna have to do that because I'm smarter because I've, I'm more experienced and be like, I can pay for gas. Yeah. You were talking about, uh, you have a, like, three, Ethan gas or whatever. I'm just like one random wallet. Yeah. Just one random wallet. Yeah. The, uh, the, my main wallet, the amount of

money I've spent on gas is pretty fucking crazy. But like, you also have to like, when you, when you pay for gas, when ethos, $400, well, then that gas amount that you paid, like, you know, that, what do that five X is, right? And so historically, like, all the ether that I've ever spent on gas is pretty fucking insane. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what,

uh, you know, what does, and make sure fees and anything you spent in denobinating crypto terms, uh, get huge. So, um, I will. I guess that like, you know, while, like, we love fees, fees are great. Both for Ethereum. At this point in time, the fees are actually at, at a level where, like, we are no longer receiving positive repercussions of that positive second, second order

effects. There's, but there's Ethereum. There's spillover going onto other chains that aren't Ethereum, right? And then there's also the negative press as well. Uh, and so like, Binance terrain is getting a lot of the theorems, economic activity because Ethereum isn't able to scale at this present moment. And then like, there's a lot of people very bitter about paying gas fees. So like, there's spillover that Ethereum

is in capturing. And then there's negative PR that Ethereum is capturing. So like, I definitely say, like, we are beyond the part, the, we are well beyond the, the optimal part of what gas fees can do. Yeah. Well, I mean, you're talking to a big corner. So I could have told you that a long time ago. I mean, the, the positive spin here is that, um,

this is going to really help later to get developed. Um, so like, what'd you take on that? Yeah. Dude, L, like, first off, layer two is here. And this is, this is my mental model for how the L2 works, right? The L2, there's, there's think of a circle. And that's Ethereum, circle just Ethereum. L2 is on the margins. And they are growing out of the margins,

right? They're both expanding out into their own L2. And then they're also expanding inwards into Ethereum, right? And so the way that this works is like loop ring, uh, which is, uh, they payments and AMM and order book exchange on an L2, which is trying to like, like, like, take capture some of that and uniswap energy, like, Hey, do you like trading on uniswap? Come trade

on use on loop ring. It's the same thing, but without gas. Um, and so that's kind of expanding inwards into the fold. And the more people that adopt loop ring, the farther it migrates inwards, right? And then there's the outwards migration, which is like trying to get coin base and Gemini to facilitate deposits directly onto loop ring. Um, that's outwards. And so that, but they're going

in both directions. L2 is here. Like we already have loop ring, uh, and synthetics is on optimistic rollups. Uh, there's a bunch of other apps that are trying to get deployed on optimistic rollups. People are not pricing in uniswap V3 on optimistic rollups. But the point is, it's like, things are on the margins and like L2 is here and it's marching inwards, but like it's, there's

still just on the margins. There's, there's the most of Ethereum is relatively untouched by L2, but they are here. You just have to go to them. Like you can wait for them to come to you. So long as you're open, okay, with paying gas fees and before then, before I actually get to you, but like they are coming, they're marching inwards. And that's my mental model.

Yeah. I mean, make sense. You could zoom that model out and just say, that's how Bitcoin works with individuals and with countries. A, a, a, kind of integrates at the margin, it integrates your life at the margins where you need it and it integrates into societies that aren't being served. So I mean, I think that you can use a lot of those kind of fractal image,

image, image, image. And thinking about how these things work and overlay it over anything in crypto. How do you feel about the UD thesis? Right? You know, there's a, like that Ethereum doesn't actually have a mo that all it's like the thin protocol thesis that all of these apps are worth of values captured. They can go multi chain. They're going to go the chain that that

offers the combination of censorship resistance and permission. da sooner or later, it might be notknob. So, illegal business Guerrilla Alpanas who is as much inappropriate as, Oh, no, no, I don't know. Holy crap, hold on, hold on, shit, or something like that. Like, yeah, yeah, we are, you know, in this case, at now. So if you're like streaming the currency, your right to you, then. See

that. Remember, if you did that that you would automatically dropylene like that Kafka style solution. And that's pretty good. And then you can just pour it over, right? And so like the, the, who was it? It was synthetics that actually did start to build stuff on eos. And then when they tried to go into the community and tried to ask questions, they got crickets. This is

an almost, almost line word for word what they were saying, right? You need to look, the M zero is people. You need to be where the people are. And that's why people are paying $50 per uniswap transactions to get in, right? Because there's demand for being on Ethereum. Like, there aren't, there aren't any other L ones because there aren't any other L zeroes. Because the only

L zeroes there are are the Ethereum's and the Bitcoiners, right? There are no Binance chain, there's no Binance chain community. There's no Binance chain podcast. There's no Binance chain like marketing company related like like Bitcoin magazine for Binance that doesn't exist. There aren't any Binance chain like zealots like no, same thing with Salana. Like there aren't there are there are crickets there. There's nothing over there.

It's not happening. I mean, yeah, I guess and I do agree that the community is big and the people make a huge part and Bitcoiners have done a huge thing for Bitcoin, right? But ultimately, like community isn't scalable. Like what scalable is running full nodes and, you know, having skin in the game. And, you know, I just think that, you know, I can see a world

where, you know, what just the majority of people want to, you know, hold their value in a unit that they understand and they don't give it ish on what platform they actually transact in or leverage apps on. So I mean, I don't know if that's going to be a theory. I don't know what the future holds, but like I don't really subscribe to this idea that

like, you know, it boils down to this community of people. Like that's not, it's just like that's a utopian thing. And I just, you know, I as much as I love the Bitcoin community as much as I understand how much they are part of it. Like the Bitcoin community that I interact with is only a tiny percentage of people that are actually using Bitcoin. And I

don't know what the fuck the other people are like. Like I don't know what the fuck they're like. And do know that they, you know, they have value in Bitcoin, but that's all I know really. I think there's two differences with Bitcoiners and Ethereum is with this whole like M zero metaphor where. Because Bitcoin was able to calcify sooner in its lifetime as on the L

one, then it was able to shed that M zero protective layer sooner. And Ethereum doesn't have didn't have that that privilege that that to be able to do that right. And so it needs its protective shield of an M zero longer than it is. And it does, then Bitcoin does also this is going back to the whole surface area metaphor like NFTs offer a capacity for

people to become part of the M zero. Just like defy apps and builders and developers. The fact that like, if you're in wants developers developers developers in Bitcoin development on the L one is generally calcified like that's a more M zero. So Ethereum overall just has a larger M zero capacity, which I think will make the whole like M zero conversation relevant to Ethereum for a

longer time. But the overall trend is the same where like the ultimately like the M zero. Yes, L zero. You're talking about M one M two. You're thinking money. Yeah, that is right. The the meme layer of people will be more relevant for Ethereum for a longer time than Bitcoin is. But at the end of the day, like Bitcoin wouldn't have been a thing in the

first place without its M zero L zero, right without its people. Maybe I have a more totalitarian view, but I think that like and this is obviously like your end Ethereum. And you are working towards. It's unfinished project like Vitalez said on the bank list podcast. Right. Like I view it as like we are bonds doing Bitcoin't bidding we're just playing in the game now like.

So I the maybe you know that, maybe that's a distinction and how we kind of view the world and how the air numbers coming up th Boulder on. What I mean. I mean, sad. I just like. Anyway. I was like, uh, on a lot of companies. But I never knew, Hai, that's really interesting has. And we didn't have far. And I think. And then you know,

like I think they made a huge contribution. And so yeah, he put the way you read this website page. So we're just playing in the game now. Like so I maybe, you know, that maybe that's a distinction into how we kind of view the world and how it's different. I definitely that is like the cooler view, right? We're like Bitcoin is a straight up God. And

we are just like succumbed to the fate of this God. Right. I do think that Ethereum falls into that same category where there is this like long term vision and ethos and energy about Ethereum where there is this Ethereum. And that's why even though there is like centralized organization behind like Danny Ryan and like Tim Beko and Fatalic, like even though there are these individual people

that are more than pons, right? Maybe they're rooks, maybe they're queens. But there's still doing the bidding of this this God and the God is determined by the values that we all as a collective human group of humans want to just bestow upon this world through the world. Through this thing called Ethereum, right? And so there is this like Ethereum God that is making the moves

playing the field. And that's just trying to get people to execute on the vision and values that is Ethereum. A.K. Proof of Fatalic. No, I take it back. I just think etheds are cultists. All right. I don't know which one you want me to respond to. Now just I'm just kidding because you definitely sounded like ethos religion in that these things are religions. They are. Absolutely.

You don't you don't fight that. No. I mean, I won't I won't take that that metaphor all the way to the very end. But like it's valid. If someone calls you a high priest of Ethereum, would you like compliment? How do you how do you feel about that? Compliment. Yeah. I mean, calling you a high priest of anything is kind of a compliment. But it's also

backhanded in this world where like what uses religion then because religion is demonized. What is right here is a high priest. He's the biggest. I like the I like the religious metaphor. I think a religion is kind of like an operating system for like your life. And I think that Bitcoin is an operating system for the world. So like I'm not I like the religion bed

for but I think at the same time like it's just like saying capitalism. It's like it's like a tainted word in society today. Like what can you talk about that? Like what is why do you find the idea of a religion in Ethereum? Right. So like we do need to shed the baggage of religion, right? Like this isn't like fundamental Christianity or Catholicism or Judaism. Right.

This is new age religion. But like where I see religion like in this and these new frames is more aligned with purpose and meaning and long term thinking. Right. There is meaning in what we are doing here. There's there is values which are should be a code to live by. That we can create a system that helps us live by those those that code. Right. That's

a theory. Like the code of Ethereum and Bitcoin on the white paper of Bitcoin and like the what do you the Bitcoin white paper and then the actual implementation of the code. That's the Bible. Yeah. Like the white paper of Ethereum. Like that's the Bible. We these are sacred texts. And the reason why they're sacred is because they offer us a way to live our life.

And the specifically the way to live our lives is guided by a certain set of guiding principles and values, which some people communicate using their their public forums, their podcasts like Pierre does like I try and do on bank lists and mom POV crypto. We've used these amplification like soap boxes to talk about these good the good values that these things can bring to the world.

When we say, I think you've tweeted this Bitcoin is good. Right. Ethereum is good. That's a real religious state. Well, I don't disagree that like the white paper is like kind of sacred text. I don't think that that white paper actually has anything that any Bitcoin needs. Like you don't have in my mind, you don't have to read the white paper and to get like to

be on the Bitcoin's rules. I think 21 million is Bitcoin's rules. I can't read the Bible because I sure sure, but like you don't even have to go to you don't you literally don't need to do anything. You just need to you know measure your balance. You need to know what you're doing and think in in sets. That's all you need to be on the Bitcoin

code. Right. And like there's tons of like influences that Christianity has on all of our lives is as people that live in America like weddings. That's a Christian thing. That's Christian. There's a ton of other things that I think that's like a human thing. Yeah, that's that's possibly true. But like also what it's a human thing because it's almost one of the same. Right. Like bless

you. That's a really religion. I mean, if you're a Christian, I could say I'm a Christian, but I'm just like this. I was just like a Christian. I don't think that's a person doing that. I can say it's a human thing, but then I don't think I want to think I'm a Christian. That's what I don't believe in that. I'm a Christian. I'm a Christian. I'm

a Christian. I'm a Christian. That's just like a religion has baked into our lives through every single porous hole. Like and if I had thought about this a little bit more, I would be able to come up with like 20 more examples of all these things that we do that are because of religion. Yeah, every holiday, like rituals, ceremonies, like gatherings, like whatever. It's all religious.

These are better worse than status holidays. Better. Okay. I just pull that out of my ass. Except except for the day. Yeah, kind of. Except for except for this day, fuck president's day. And the holiday that we do need is the day off to go vote. That should be a ritual. Anyways. Yeah. I mean, you can vote with your feet with Bitcoin. Yeah, let's wrap this

one up. Robin it up. All right. Yeah. Follow the podcast at POV crypto pod. You can follow me at Trustless Date, both on Twitter and on bank list Christian. Yeah, you guys can find me at CK underscore Snarks and at Bitcoin Magazine. And if you're a Peter McCormick fan or hater, you can catch me on what Bitcoin did with Robert Bredlof. That drop last Tuesday. It's

been a great show. So. I have not seen that one. I'm going to go. I'm going to go listen to that right now while I cook my dinner. There you go. You making a steak. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's go. Here's very bougie diet. Dude. Bless it. Bless it. That's the diet we need. All right. Will you to see? Will you to see? Will you? Will

you? Will you? We never call. We know. We never call. We know. You scared me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.