First POV of 2021: What We See Coming

Welcome everyone to POV Crypto, the only podcast that both Bitcoiners and Ethereum is listening to. I'm David Hoffman here with my buddy Christian, Christian, how you doing? Doing good man. It's been a very long time since we last recorded it. I think it was early December, almost a month. Yeah, and in crypto time, of course, that is an era. Yeah, that is there's different things have

already happened. We've experienced our first crypto retracement. It finally came. People in my circles were starting to talk about how the dip just isn't coming and every single dip just continues to be bought and perhaps because institutions and new types of players are coming into this base that maybe dips just don't happen anymore. Conversations started going around. We retraced from like $40,000 Bitcoin to $30,000 Bitcoin

and $1300 ETH to $900 ETH. So yeah, we found this all right though. Bountaine bad, but that could just mean that is not over yet. Who knows? Yeah, the dump could just be beginning right. So Bitcoin, Ether, markets take the way of most pain usually. So as soon as people get complacent. Yeah, so that's like a recipe for disaster. I was saying yesterday is like, I

can't really tell. I'm a pretty zen person when crypto prices move. I don't really, even to the up or to the down. I don't really feel emotions anymore. I've just kind of like. I've, I've understand these things are volatile. And so like I was talking yesterday. It's like, you know, I just don't feel the pain guys like the pain isn't here. And then we dropped another

bit and I was starting to like feel like, okay, there's a little bit of pain going on here. But still nothing like I felt like back in 2017. It's nice to be in a second cycle rather than my first cycle that is definitely new feeling. Now your second cycle is way better. When you've had the entire bull market to accumulate. That's a big improvement. Yeah, I

just never really integrated like, you know, $1,300 ETH into my like brain. I didn't, it didn't feel real, right? Didn't feel like it was, it was there. And Bitcoin probably didn't, I didn't really feel like $30,000 Bitcoin was real. And then it continued to go all the way up to 40,000. Um, things are weird, man. Things are weird. Yeah, things are really weird. And I guess

before we keep talking about price, like, it's been a while since we got on POV. I feel like a lot has happened, right? Like, what was the, like Bitcoin price was sub 20K last time we talked. Yeah. That was before even breaking all time highs. Yeah. Ether was around like five or six hundred dollars. Yeah. No, it's a, things have happened really, really fast, really, really

quickly. I can't figure out how to account for why things have moved so fast. Well, I just, it's kind of like when you look at like previous Bitcoin, cycle, if you look at it in linear, like they once a new cycle happens, the previous cycle, like it looks like it's just part of the flat line prior to, you know, the, the latest bubble. So, I mean,

same thing is happening again. Yeah. And I'm trying to map out like where we are in the cycle, like for when we got into it in 2017, we got into, I got into it in like August, you know, the second half of the year 2017, that doesn't, I don't feel like we're you're completely there yet. It doesn't feel like we, I even close. Oh, you, oh,

I, I would say we're close. I, I don't think we're there yet, but I would say that we're close. You don't think that we're close to that part in the cycle. No. Really. We have like six months away from that. Six months. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So previous Bitcoin all time high was a thousand dollars before 2017 all time. And then around when you got in like

Bitcoin was trading around between like high 3000s to 4000 to 5000. Okay. So that's, you know, three to five X all time highs. So, I mean, we got one X, we got one exit. Yeah. Yeah. Does it work like that though? Can we, can we just extrapolate like in that one to one fashion? Yeah. It's hard to say. It's not financial advice. Not financial advice. Definitely

not. As you can see, my, the way I think about this market is not very scientific either. Well, people try and put it into a science and like, you totally can put it into a science, but I find it much more easy to just say, effort, like, you know, put in some bids and then don't think about things like people asking, oh, what's your, what's your

cell targets? What's your price targets? And I'm like, I don't know, a higher number. Think about it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't even really have cell targets for Bitcoin, really. I think, I should think, I should think about this stuff a little bit more. It's always good to have a plan. But I'm not really even thinking about FIA. I'm just trying to make that Bitcoin

number go up. Yeah. No, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. One thing I've noticed Christian to change the subject a little bit is the diverging ecosystems between Bitcoin and Ethereum. Like Bitcoin, you're seem to be doing their Bitcoin thing and Ethereum people seem to be doing their Ethereum thing like in the in the, in the bear market when everyone was bored and we were, it's, we

seem to be like two communities that, who were really proximate to each other. And that's why so much of the fighting happened. And it seems to be our community has have really just kind of separated. Like we don't, there's less conversations happening and people seem to be focused on their own, their own priorities. Would you agree with that take? Well, I mean, I think there's definitely

bull market vibes where everyone is busy pumping their own shit. And like, they're not bored. Like, you know, there was points in the bear market where Bitcoiners were fighting each other about stuff, you know, in the bear market people fight. It's just the thing. So I feel like this is pretty normal. I mean, ultimately pretty much everyone on crypto Twitter is, you know, roughly in the

same community in my opinion. So like, yeah, you know, there's different sex or whatever. But for the most part, people are generally like free thinking, libertarian, ask, want to travel young. Like, I feel like there's like this group of people that, you know, is playing around in the crypto space, like between Bitcoiners and hardcore thearians, like they're a lot closer than, than they are compared to

like someone who's a no-coiner. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. Maybe, yeah, maybe we just, because we're all a little bit more wealthy that we just have less things to fight about and less stress is going around. Yeah, I mean, you're not so mad when you see a thousand dollar eat. You know, you're sitting on, on, on 40k Bitcoin vice versa. Yeah. To mean, to listeners

that have, you know, because this podcast got started in the 2018 bear market. So to put the hat to the little listeners, shout out West Coast Walker and some of the other ones that have stuck with us all the way through. I'm sure your bags are doing pretty well as as well. Yeah, I mean, I think that one of the themes of the bear market was

not only that Bitcoiners were right, but also a theory into a pretty right. Like maybe Bitcoiners were wrong about Ethereum and Ethereum's maybe wrong about Bitcoin, but DeFi emerging and then obviously Bitcoin and really playing into the macro narrative kind of proved both sides correct. You know, and the people who made the most money were the ones who are holding everything, you know, kind of holding

both ecosystems. Well, that was like our thesis going into this podcast. Maybe it was more of my thesis than it was yours, but I was always of the belief that it was going to be a Bitcoin and Ethereum and specifically nothing else. Like that's where I draw the line. Like EOS ain't come in, like, definitive ain't come in. Dan Lairmer, just like, just left EOS. Yeah,

Dan Lairmer ain't come in. That's for sure. Or maybe he is because he sold all his EOS for ETH and BTC. He has a lot of both. Yeah, that's true. Scammers typically have a lot of crypto. Yeah. And that's also something I tried to position myself in this lesson. I tried to learn in this cycle. It was like during the last cycle, I was 100% ether

are very rarely held any Bitcoin ever. And that caused me stress, right? Like I would watch the Bitcoin price go up and the either price knock or whip and I would feel FOMO. And like part of part of the experience that I've gotten in this cycle is that you know, I've just learned to not feel FOMO. But also I position my bag so that, you know,

I don't feel FOMO because literally I have exposure to both assets, right? It's just easier when you have exposure to both. Like you just have you don't have to think as many as hard like you don't have to stress out about how convicted you are. That's definitely a takeaway that I've experienced in this cycle. Well, I think the long term thesis, it's good to be right

about which asset is going to like kind of win the money game. But in the short term, they're both going to pump. And then that way, like let's say you're more ETH bullish, you can sell BTC at the top for ETH. And then if you're more BTC bullish vice versa, and you don't actually have to sell, you know, your hoddle stash of what you treasure as

what you think is going to be global reserve currency. Although, personally, I think if you're selling BTC at any point in the next few years, most likely you'll just own less BTC. Yeah. So here's a question I have. Do BTC just try and sell the top because like the criticism of from Ethereum's two BTC would be like, you know, they are so incredibly like religious and

ideological that like they'll see like $2 million BTC at the end of like 2022. And they'll still they still won't sell because of how like convicted and ideological there are. And that's a dumb thing to do because like there's nothing real about that. So like do BTC talk about selling? Like how? What are sell targets? What are like just peer, reshard have like a price target?

Like what's going on in that kind of world? Well, there's different like I feel like there's stronger trader vibes in the DeFi community. Obviously because DeFi is trading infrastructure. So Bitcoin doesn't necessarily have like everyone in Bitcoin isn't necessarily like a trader. And there's a lot of like the really hardcore stackers that will never sell. And I have a majority of my Bitcoin position that I

would allocate to that that thesis is I'm not selling it for FIA. I'm happy to eat 80% draw downs. I don't care. But with that being said, like there are absolutely a lot of Bitcoiners who are like, this is a four year cycle. There's going to be a top. I just endure 2018, 2019 not doing that again. Like I'll be an asshole to not take profits.

And then there's more Bitcoiners are like, you asshole. If you sell at the top at this point, guess what's going to happen is not going to draw down as much. You're going to pay taxes. And then all the institutions are going to buy it to the moon. It's never coming back. So there's a lot of money. So I'm going to buy it to the moon. It's

never coming back. So I'm going to buy it to the moon. It's not going to be a lot of money. It's not going to be a lot of money. It's not going to be a lot of money. It's not going to be a lot of money. It's not going to be a lot of money. There's all kinds of angles and I think that many Bitcoiners that

have lived through the past bear market, I'm sure many people in the Ethereum space, they don't want to do that again. They don't want to be sitting on all these paper games and then not take some out and then buy back lower. They don't want to do that. I definitely fit in that category where I would like to have locked in way more profits than I

did in 2017 this cycle. However, I am compelled by the argument that like, I'm trying this coming cycle is kind of the last big cycle before things like really smooth out, right? Because at this point, who's left? After we get the big institutions to allocate BTC to their treasuries and then purchase Ether and Besson Ether for whatever reason. At this point, there's no part of the

world that's unaddressed. The whole entire world has been unaddressed. Therefore, the correction or the bear market that would be coming after this hype cycle, I think would be relatively muted. I think that's a very logical position to have. Yeah, so I'm actually putting out a podcast on Wednesday. That would be the 13th of January with Bitcoin Tina called the hardest trade. It's talking about this exact

thing. The last cycle, this is a bubble and these were all illegitimate assets the majority of the world. That is not the case this time around. That is something that is very, very, very fundamental. Maybe there's going to be a blow off top. I can't see a world where these investors, these institutions behave the same. The majority of the money is going from young DGENs to

capital allocators. That's a very different type of person. Right. I actually wrote about this in today's news. Release out of the bankless newsletter. First off, it's time to go back to the news. I've titled Welcome to the Show as in like this is our first big retracement of this cycle. But then at the end, I pose the question is like, are these markets going to be

different because of the entrance of these new players? Specifically, the players that weren't able to participate last time, the people with big money move slower. And they don't feel a phoma or they don't feel emotions. Mainly because it's not their money. It's like the money of an institution. An institution can't feel emotion. It can't be the people that make one to three trades a year. Right.

That's it. And they don't see a wick on a candle and capitulate. That's not who they are. Also, they just don't need to. Right. Like, let's just say, you know, you had $100,000, $50,000 going into 2016. You made millions on Bitcoin and crypto. That's all your wealth. You have nothing else. You need to read, you need to redistribute. Otherwise, you're exposed to the volatility. These organizations,

they already have trillions and trillions and trillions of assets. Like, they're not and they're not buying crypto. So that way, it can triple their portfolio size and then read and then, you know, diversify. You know, they're buying it as a diversification to increase their sharper ratio. You know, so crypto to them is the diversifier, not something that they're planning on buying, writing up and then selling

in order to make bank. Yeah. No, that's that's exactly what I'm saying. Exactly right. And that's going to I like that title, the hardest trade or what was it? The most difficult. The hardest trade, the hardest trade. Yeah. There has to be a blow off top because we are already seeing reflexivity. When we say, when we see Bitcoin take like three months to go from like

10k to 20k and then three weeks or less to go from 20k to 40k, that's reflexively between POV podcasts. And so like every flexibility is happening. Then blow off tops are happening. And then there's definitely a top to be solved. It's just it's the timing the bottom, I think, is the bigger question is like, that's going to be the harder thing to time. Yeah, it's. Yeah,

I completely agree. And I don't think we need to like weigh on this too much. I would say that. Me and you agree. And that's a very unpopular opinion. Still, which is going to be interesting to see that play on the next like 12 months. Yeah. So what topic do you want to turn to next? You want to talk about a de platform? Yeah. I mean,

like the last five days, so hey, we're recording on the 11th, the last five days, we've seen some pretty unprecedented, like unilateral de platforming of both Donald Trump and the Partler app by like every single centralized organization. Yeah, they're not talking about. Yeah, I mean, it is coordinated or it's like the big boys are taking lead. And then everyone else is just copying them. But regardless,

it's like every single centralized internet provider has pretty much said you can't be on the internet anymore. And now we just see a pathway for how people can be booted off the internet completely. So here's my take on this. In the same way, COVID and the money printer go Birmingham was like the starting pistol, the starting pistol for Bitcoin. I think that the de platforming of

Donald Trump is another starting pistol for Web 3. Maybe and I do think that Web 3 is not as far long as Bitcoin is in its growth and development and maturity. But I think that's the thing, the starting pistol is still sounding saying like, hey, like the president of the United States just got silenced. Like as a person, that person just got silenced. And that can

happen to you. And I know that and like 40% of the country. Yeah, sure. And 40% of the country. Yeah. And as somebody that has a Twitter account that is extremely valuable to me at the very least, I resonate with that. Like I don't really care too much about Donald Trump not having a platform, but I care about me having a platform. And I would not

want to be the platform. And as somebody who speaks out as a pundit of an emerging emerging industry that perhaps has a lot of haters. Like I feel, I feel a little bit, you know, nervous about just the platforming. Now I'm not telling people to go like mob and tack the the the white house or capital hill or whatever, but still like, you know, I'm promoting

something that is has an anti state stance. Literally, my podcast is is bankless is about like having learning how to live without needing the state. Like that's not something that the state likes. And I think the the Silicon Valley and the state are more aligned. And that in my that they are more aligned together than than what I would want them to be with regards to

my personal interests. Yeah, I mean, completely right. And here's the thing is like you see a lot of people on the left and younger people like celebrating this stuff. But it's just very, very short-sighted, right? Like, we don't know when you're going to be able to do that. We're going to unilaterally be deemed like the bad person like in clearly we have no choice. And the

person that just almost won the election now got deemed that like he went from almost being the president a second time almost like a lot of people in the country voted for him to zero. Like that's really scary unilaterally power to have. And like that's literally the point of Bitcoin crypto is no one should have that the infrastructure should provide. These assurances to anyone no matter

what. Yeah, so he he there's a conversation that the Democrats might rally to try and impeach him so that he can't run for a second term. But if say they don't get that effort and then he doesn't get impeached and then Biden just becomes president, he still has the ability to run for president in four years. Again, like you can still do that. But not if

he doesn't have his Twitter account like no, like it's as it's might as well be an impeachment if you cut off his ability to communicate with the world. Yes, ish, but what I would actually say is that this is just the catalyst for building the alternative system. And what you said is like this is the catalyst for Web 3. I don't 100% agree with that. I

think that this is the catalyst for self hosting. And I think like maybe that is like the biggest like technical differentiator between Bitcoiners and how they see the decentralized future versus like maybe Ethereum to see like Ethereum being that substrate that coordinates that. I think Bitcoiners see it as just more like people are going to see the value of self hosting and they're going to do

it more. And I think that this is proving that right like parlor startups that all like centralize their dependence on servers to AWS. You know, they're going to start maintaining their own servers again. And like that's going to be more important. People might maintain their own personal servers and like products like that just like you know plug and play nodes plug and play personal servers are

going to become more and more of a thing. So I just think that it's like the the alternatives. So I think that's the kind of a system which is going to comprise of everything in the theory of everything in Bitcoin, everything in the like open hardware software space. Like that is all going to unite together to kind of like create this alternative. And I'm I'm excited.

I'm bullish like. You know, if this would have happened 10 years ago. Like what the hell would we have done? Like obviously the world is a different place Twitter and Facebook were less powerful back then. But still there was like nothing to fall back on. Now I see Bitcoiners going to mast it on going out of this other stuff linking their Twitter accounts so they can

keep tweeting but build not any ads elsewhere. Like there's just the the foundation for people to escape the release valve is there. And I think that crypto is a huge part of that. I think saying like you you are more aligned with or more resident with like self hosting versus Web 3. I think that's more of a semantics thing. I would consider like self hosting be

it to be like a Web 3 is type thing. I mean, people don't even know what Web 3 is and I don't even know what Web 3 is mainly it's just like protocols acting as the same infrastructure for Web 3. And maybe that's on Ethereum or maybe it's not. Well, I mean, I guess Bitcoiners just don't like Ethereum lingo. Yeah, unless they're ripping off Ethereum memes

like few and half on St. Porr. Although maybe half on St. Porr was with I think that was you guys few was few was well, no, few was you guys, but the Ethereum community made it a meme. Few came out of here. We're short. Okay. All right. Well, then I guess we take we get it all we originally. Never mind. Yeah. Um, my statement. Yeah. So

like Erbe is definitely Web 3. I would say I would call that Web 3. But again, I would say like I would criticize the Web 3 as a slogan because this just relatively like undefined and you know, kind of meaningless. Yeah. Erbys very much on the like the self host. Personal computer thing. And Erbitt touches Bitcoin Ethereum and beyond too. So I think artisus is still

accurate. Yeah, totally. Well, okay. So you want to you want to turn to the conversation to regulation? Yeah. I don't know. I mean like what do you what do you want to do? What are you saying in 2021? Like I would say that here's something different. Like our friends are our college friends. Like they are not scared of these kind of dips. Like they're like, Oh,

I want to buy the dip on this. Like I think more and more people are valuing Bitcoin crypto generally. And they're like they're excited about buying the dip. And I think that's institutions and other people like that's that's proof of like Lindy. That's proof of Lindy, which is super exciting. Yeah. I so I have a growing Instagram. I don't know why it's on Instagram. It just

is that's like turned into like 15 or 16 people. You should just be me and somebody from college and then it's in the friends of friends. You could get out of that one. Yeah. Yeah. I invited Christian and then Christian came in with his BTC. Maximilism. And I just yeeted him right out of the group because we're because the group is literally titled DeFi DGN. It's

about speculating on low cap all coins. I missed out on EFI at like under a thousand bucks. Yeah. That is true. That is true. That is where it's all. That's a hundred. That's true. That's it started with wifey. That's right. Anyways, the group is like it's absolutely fascinating to me to watch like that group got started at like 400 ETH and like 900 or $9,000 Bitcoin

or something. Yeah. And like people were throwing in a couple hundred dollars. And so like you know people threw a couple hundred dollars into wifey at like you know $3,000. And they weren't really paying attention to ETH. But then as soon as ETH like fucking pumped to a thousand dollars and Bitcoin pumped to $40,000. And then people were like, all right, like I'm going to wire

in like $5,000 to Coinbase. And like you had $5,000 in your back pocket and you didn't put it in like three months ago. Like what the fuck were you doing? Like now the prices are three X higher. Like it's fucking crazy that like as the price of the price of these things go up. Everyone wants to buy more of them. And like it's backwards. Have you

heard of the term Viblon good? No. We're giffing good. No, I'm not. Yeah. Both describe a good that as their price increases. So this demand has a backwards demand curve or an upside down demand curve. Whereas like most things like, okay, I'll buy those shoes for 10 bucks. Okay, I'll buy those shoes for 20 bucks. Less people will buy it for 30 bucks. Even less pair

of 50 bucks, you know, 60 bucks. You know, no one's buying it, right? So Bitcoin, no one wants to that 10k. No one wants that 20k. No one wants to that 25k. 30k. How do I get the money? Yeah. Right. And I mean, same with, I mean, the only thing like assets are like this, but assets without cash flows, I feel like it acts even more

like a giffing good or Viblon good. Because like companies, companies have that kind of reflexivity. But then you just look at, you know, the cash flows and the fundamentals and you're like, holy crap, like the price earnings is stupid. And then that kind of brings people down. But right now, like there's just not enough understanding for that kind of analysis to happen on a macro level.

And so well, I was initially a subscribe to this idea that yeah, that's totally a true phenomenon. But basic, based off the fact that like, as there are some institutions that literally can't buy Bitcoin below a certain price, otherwise, they just pumped the market and like, they don't like to do that, right? So they have to wait for Bitcoin to be like $50,000. So that they

can actually allocate capital to it. That makes sense to me. But it's like, the, it's like the retail FOMO, whereas like, it's the, they won't buy it. That's the giffing good. And until it gets the three X like, that's just weird. Because there's a lack of understanding. And then it's just FOMO. Yeah. At that point, it's just like, without understanding, you have no confidence to allocate

capital. And then once you've already like, in it, yeah, we could, we could go back and forth on it. But it all comes down to lack of understanding. And when you understand, you know, you have the gold, the buy the dips. And it doesn't matter to you. Granted, like the people that really captured like, you know, Bitcoin going from like six, seven K to 40 K

or ether going from $200 to $1,000. Only those people weren't the people that aren't these type of people. Those people are the people that suffered through the bear market, right? Very few people like, like, like, exited in 2018 and then invested their money in the stock market and then came back in early 2020. Very few people did that. You either stuck all the way through it

or you FOMOed in at like $800,000, ETH and $30,000 Bitcoin. Yeah. No, you're, I think that's completely accurate. These markets will always take the way of most pain. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have much to talk about else. I think we should give the audience a quick update on like, what the fuck we've been up to. The past month has been crazy for Bitcoin magazine. So I've

kind of, I've completely taken over there. So Bitcoin magazine is run by me, Joe Rogers and a squad of hungry Bitcoiners. So then super busy on that. And that's kind of played into why we've been doing a fewer, a few less POV shares. Yeah. So we'll talk about a little bit more of the type of content that's coming out of Bitcoin magazine. Like, what's your guys,

what's your guys' deal right now? I mean, effectively, we're like the oldest Bitcoin slash crypto news company. We've kind of transitioned more into like embracing being a magazine. And we only do BTC stuff. We definitely have like a Bitcoin maximalist bent. Not like I would say like a hard, like, we're not like the hardest core. Maxis on the internet trolling everyone that's like not our bent,

but we're very much all about BTC and here to like amplify anyone has something intelligent to say about BTC, the ecosystem, whatever. So we're a magazine where people can publish and amongst all the amongst all the de platforming. Like we're a great option. Like, why would you publish on on medium and potentially risk getting the platform. There's a history of crypto and Bitcoin stuff getting the

platform. You can work with us. We can work with the thoughtful content. You'll get an editor. You have a person to work with. And we do a bunch of podcasts. We do a bunch of live streams. We put on the biggest Bitcoin conference, which we are struggling to, to organize just because of all the uncertainty. But we are working hard to make it happen in 2021.

So it's just an all around Bitcoin media Bitcoin culture company. A lot of fun. Maybe you want to give the viewers a sneak peek at that image behind you. This thing. Yeah. I feel like it's a very pro Bitcoin media. Or Bitcoin magazine type image. Yeah, it's a Bitcoin conquering fiat and shit coins. But yeah, I mean, and I know like you guys have been taking

huge steps with bankless and launching that. How are things going on your end? Well, before we get there, I actually do have to say that like one of the big things that frustrated me in 2020 is that like the Ethereum community in the theorem. Like just like news cycle that specifically Ethereum topics, not crypto. Just forgot to talk about like, so COVID and inflation. Like COVID.

And money printing and inflation. We didn't start talking about that until we still don't really as a community. Right. And so like for from my understanding, trying to get my grasp on like these markets and how these and how they're just being knowledgeable and being an informed investor. I that's I went to Bitcoin magazine to hear about like federal reserve policy inflation. That's where I got

to know like Lynn Alden. And like that was one of the few dependable sources of information that I could could get to talk about just like macro. Ethereum people don't care about macro. And that's kind of a bummer to me. Yeah, Bitcoin people only care about macro. And a lot of times they kind of skim over like the details that, you know, Ethereum people really appreciate

and are kind of building. But yeah, I mean, we're trying to be a resource again like a lot of the articles and content that we're putting out, you know, to kind of like hardcore big coiners like sounds like, Hey, Bitcoin is good. But to outsiders, they're looking at this like, wow, this is in depth, the macro analysis. There is some fantastic stuff coming out there, you

know, from a macro perspective, not just, you know, beyond, you know, Bitcoin as an ideology, as a culture, as a technology. So working hard to just keep it as a resource and a Bitcoin resource too. So if you want to learn about the history of Bitcoin, lightning, all that kind of stuff, we've been doing it since 2013. So we have a huge archive of historical stuff.

Well, yeah. And you're getting into the writing game too, aren't you? Yeah. I mean, dude, you've been fucking pounding me on writing for so long. And finally, finally getting on it, I put out a hit piece where I criticize Ethereum back in the day, you know, in November, put out an op-ed called the sovereign company thesis, which is looking more and more pressure. And now I'm

working on a handful of other ones. And I'll use one that's probably going to come out soon called the Cantalon Effect 2.0. So trying to get it on the thought leadership from the writing perspective too. Yeah, writing is nice because it sharpens your own swords. Well, I'm not going to be able to do that. So you are writing it. As somebody who has written a decent

amount, like I've benefited from my writing just as much as my audience has. So I would expect that same thing to happen to you. When you're going on Peter McCormick's podcast, is that happening? Sometime next month. Yeah. We're organizing it. He wants to talk about the sovereign company thesis. Okay. So my one critique of the sovereign company thesis was that once again, it was Bitcoin focused

when it didn't need to be. Like it could have also have been Ethereum. Ethereum can create a sovereign company as well. Yeah, no, I mean, I totally can, but Bitcoin is like the best thing that could become a digital reserve currency. So it makes more sense to use Bitcoin as the category word. Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah. Plus Bitcoin magazine. Sure. Fair enough. Fair enough. Speaking of,

rep in the op-seq friendly Bitcoin magazine T. So check out our stores. Well, is that just a Bitcoin magazine logo? But it's just pixelated. Yeah, pixelated on Bitcoin. So just as magazine. Love it. That's funny. Yeah. Very few people are going to understand that reference. Dude, it's it's for the Bitcoiners. It's not for the no-coiners. Yeah. But yeah, let's talk about you, man. Like what do

you been doing? Like, I mean, obviously building the bank list, you guys have absolutely been crushing it and super impressed. Taking notes on my end. What are the last like two months been for you? Dude, absolutely insane. Yeah. So we're we've we've turned bank lists into like a program with like a drumbeat, right? And so we have a pretty regular drumbeat Monday is the podcast Tuesday

is the state of the nation. Wednesday, there's no there's no video. There's just a newsletter Thursday. There is the weekly rollups and every other week. There is a AMAs and then and then we published the weekly rollups, which is like a news news recap once a week on Friday. So every other there's either three pieces of content that go out a week or for every other

Thursday we do the AMA. And so that that is a fuck ton of content. And that's what keeps me busy all the fucking time. And then we also have the Monday through Friday, Friday newsletter. And so that's Monday. It's just the opening note, the opening note to the week. Ryan or me or somebody else kind of give some sort of just like five to 700 words,

just like note commentary as to what's going on. Usually about the market or something in the news cycle. And then there's a bunch of resources in there for people that actually pay for the market. For to subscribe to bankless Tuesday tactics Wednesday, writers Wednesday, Thursday thought piece. Just some content from from external writers or something from me or Ryan or cells. And then on Friday, we

have like our open thread. So it's like a question that people can come and comment on. So a full program. And what we're trying to turn this into actually is just like a an onboarding material for new basically the thesis is that a bunch of people are going to come into this base. They are going to figure out they're trying to figure out how to learn.

And we are trying to guide them correctly. So we have this metaphor of going west. And it's also dangerous to go alone. And so you want to take a group of people with you. And that's what the bankless nation is supposed to be. Nah, I love it. The marketing is just like complete a class marketing. It's fantastic. And the narrative, everything like the whole program. It's

really something to congratulate yourself on building. Thanks, brother. I can definitely thank Twitter for that one. Twitter is a great just a way placed to like learn marketing skills. Totally. And I'm, dude, I'm like, let's talk about Twitter a little bit. Like I'm just kind of like hurt by Twitter. Like I love, you know, I love Twitter so much. I've just like, I think it's just

such a fantastic tool for learning and exercising and sharpening and community building and everything. And just like seeing all this stuff and like, wow, Twitter is fundamentally broken. And, you know, at some point, like the future of networking is going to be elsewhere. And I'm excited and hopeful that it's going to be better and fair. But it sucks to kind of just see this like thing

that you've been spending so much time on. Kill itself a little bit. At least that's my take. Yeah. So I feel like that's the right wing slash bit corner take. I'm not sure everyone is ready to hop on that board. So maybe you want to elaborate on why that's your opinion. I mean, there's just a lot of people have been marginalized. And it seems like it's

objectively not fair or consistent. So I mean, I would say I'm more of a libertarian, but more conservative-ish. But I'm not a Trump support. I've never voted for Trump. Never even liked it. You know, like I don't like Trump at all. You know, I don't. I've never voted for Republican. I've voted for Obama once. So like truly, like I try to be like impartial. And it

just seems like, you know, the combination of it being the most influential place like the gathering square. But being the least modern type of recognizable of all social medias shows that it is very apt for capture. And then even the more monetizable ones like Facebook and, uh, and, and, and Google and that kind of stuff. Like, you know, they're just jumping on board too. So like,

you know, it seems like there's complete capture from the left right now. And that's just not good for communication and ideas spread in America, in my opinion. So let's see. There's, there's two paths of conversation we could go down. You said a capture by the left. And this, this, my mind goes back to Vitalik's article that he wrote about concavity versus convex dispositions and how big

corners tend to be extreme thinkers and other people. Ethereum tend to be more like middle ground saying like we can, we can take a best of best of all things perspective. And big corners are like, you know, if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. And so like, I think this debate boils down to the fact that like can Twitter and Twitter leadership, you

know, de platform. So er, you can go and ask question mark. Now, there will be two other things that live between the ads like, I refer you to some bear, and both are deep critical. Grab your views, you know, develop yourga. And so and those products, is a slippery slope that devolves into just systemic de platforming and systemic capture, as you said, by the left. I'm

still in the camp that like it is possible for leadership to take a rational unbiased perspective about de platforming without going too far. I think that that is a possible thing to do to get done. And and Eric Voorhees on a video that we just recorded that should be coming out sometime soon said that, you know, he would rather have a jack, be the person doing

the de platforming rather than the central government. That he thinks that that's a good thing in between those two options. I'm more optimistic that you're muted. I'm more optimistic that Twitter leadership can de platform without devolving into something just dystopian and bad. I guess, I mean, I don't know like Twitter has the right to de platform. It's their platform, right? And I don't want them to

be regulated because that's captured. Like we already know that that's captured. Like so I don't want them jumping into this shit. So I agree with Eric there. I just have less, maybe I've less faith in you and lead Twitter's leaderships ability to, you know, to get it done. I haven't seen anything to show up. I'm not sure if I can do that. I know me that

they can do it well. So like I think part of this debate is because of course this debate is about Donald Trump, because this was the instance that basically is just the example. Sure. What can happen to you and your friends and your company and anyone else who is on the wrong side of, you know, whoever has the God button. Right. He's on the wrong, but

he's on the wrong side of the and this goes back to like, do you believe what do you like Donald Trump or do you not like Donald Trump? Because like if you don't like Donald Trump, and I think he's gross. And I think that all those people busted through the house like, or like what the fuck were they thinking? And right. It's all cringe worthy. But

still, but still. But yeah, that's where I'm like ready to be like, well, Donald Trump, this guy that lost an election. And I do believe that he lost the election is it tried to figure out flailed about and tried to surmount a coup to like take over the government. I think that's what happened more or less. Like we could debate the nuances. But I think if

you want to boil it down into a sentence, he tried to go around the law to keep maintaining. He didn't lose gracefully. That's for sure. As far as how serious was that coup like, okay, I think that was the biggest joke of a coup I've ever seen. If you want to call it that, it was pretty gross. It was cringe. I feel like that's it was

stuff by deaths? If you're going to say that people died, then let's count desks. And let's see who's which politicians are most responsible for desks. As a result of tweets. That's the category of desks as a result of tweets. Dude, there's politicians that said don't wear masks on their tweets in March. Okay. Do we want to talk is every single death in their constituents area? The

difference is intense though. That's intense. Okay. So tweeting ignorantly is not super responsible to me. I'm just trying to say like, let's be even killed here before we do things that fundamentally change how society works, how rights are viewed, managed, and defended. We're talking about the bedrock of society. And then we're talking about incidents. And then changing the bedrock of society to address incidents is pretty

fucking crazy, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely, I definitely don't like it. And I also don't think it's it's even the most viable strategy. Like keeping Donald Trump on Twitter and not de-platforming him. I think would actually be the right move to achieve the goals that whoever wanted to de-platform Donald Trump to achieve. Like he's he was just going to burn himself out regardless. And

now like, now the right even feels more victimized and now they have even more proof. And now they feel like it probably even more energized. Yeah. I mean, there was a point where people on the right were just were were, you know, essentially saying, you know, we don't can do what Donald did. Like his lack of speaking during the whole instant was a shame, a sham,

all this stuff. And then all those people were coming to, you know, agreement with, you know, against Donald Trump. And then all of a sudden, because of this, like massive de-platforming and like massive coup of like right, you know, you know, kicking out of anyone who has like right any sort of like hardcore right wingness. Like that's effectively isolated these people and forced them to double

down. Yeah. Now it's like it's us versus them instead of like, oh, here's this rational thing where I can, you know, I can condemn this action by Donald Trump. I don't know. I clearly feel strongly about this. And like, I don't think it's good for left right relations and left right relations are awful right now. I saw, I don't know what movie it was from. I

saw Nick Carter tweet out. It was like some in a screenshot from a movie. And it was a reference to a movie that I can't remember, but maybe you do. But it was like American democracy and Bitcoin to people staring out over like a burning skyline and like this dystopian movie. And the caption was from the speaker of the American democracy to Bitcoin. You've met me

at a very interesting time in my life. And then the alluding to the price pumping of Bitcoin to $40,000 while people are storming the US Capitol. Like that's an interesting juxtaposition. And I feel like that's kind of the story of the decade that that's currently being written. I mean, fight club. That's what that scene was. Oh, really? I don't want to I actually never really watch

fight club. All right. All the way through and through. Yeah. I think it's one of if there's like four movies that are like after you become like a Bitcoin or crypto person like that you need to watch, you got to watch that one. I've watched it, but yeah, I'm not not with intent. I should watch it more. Yeah, watch it with intent. It's a good one.

You're with your time. I mean, it's legendary. It's a legendary movie. I noticed and it's like a mine to fuck too. So if you're into that, I'm into those kind of movies. I mean, I know the story. I know the story. But yeah, I wouldn't be the one that I obviously can't. I'm missing references. So maybe I should not. Not miss references and watch it for

sure. All right. Well, I think I mean, hey, this is a good. This is a good little recording here. Guys, you know, at one point we were doing two shows a week in interviews. POP crypto is definitely, you know, taking a step back in terms of how many shows we produce. But like David and I, I think between us, we put out like at least 10

pieces of content a week. It's just a lie. It's just a lie. And hey, the listeners are missing us like, let us know. Like, what are you doing? If you guys yell enough, we'll come back. Yeah. But so, I mean, we're going to try to get consistent. We're trying to figure out a groove. Like, this is the first time that we try to really do POP

crypto while both being full time banquist and Bitcoin magazine. So have a little bit of patience while we figured out. But until then, you can follow me at CK underscore snarks. You can follow me also at Bitcoin magazine. If you're on Macedon at CK Snarks at Bitcoin hackers org and same for Bitcoin magazine at Bitcoin hack. Here's that org. So check it all out and, uh,

yeah, keep on keeping on by the dip all the above. Interestingly, POP crypto was created. So both Christian and I could get jobs in this space and turns out that's exactly what that podcast did. Absolutely. Yeah. All right, guys, you can follow me on Twitter at Trustless State. Uh, I'm not on Macedon because I'm a an Ethereum Lib. Um, but you could also follow banquist at

bankless HQ is a on YouTube on substack and on Twitter. Uh, thanks everyone for listening. Peace. Will you. Oh, yeah. Straight. What the hell. It's a place, so far. Take my eyes out. Take my eyes out. Take my eyes out. Take my eyes out.