First POV of 2021: What We See Coming

Welcome everyone to POV Crypto, the only podcast that both Bitcoiners and Ethereum is listening to. I'm David Hoffman here with my buddy Christian, Christian, how you doing? Doing good man. It's been a very long time since we last recorded it. I think it was early December, almost a month. Yeah, and in crypto time, of course, that is an era. Yeah, that is there's different things have

already happened. We've experienced our first crypto retracement. It finally came. People in my circles were starting to talk about how the dip just isn't coming and every single dip just continues to be bought and perhaps because institutions and new types of players are coming into this base that maybe dips just don't happen anymore. Conversations started going around. We retraced from like $40,000 Bitcoin to $30,000 Bitcoin

and $1300 ETH to $900 ETH. So yeah, we found this all right though. Bountaine bad, but that could just mean that is not over yet. Who knows? Yeah, the dump could just be beginning right. So Bitcoin, Ether, markets take the way of most pain usually. So as soon as people get complacent. Yeah, so that's like a recipe for disaster. I was saying yesterday is like, I

can't really tell. I'm a pretty zen person when crypto prices move. I don't really, even to the up or to the down. I don't really feel emotions anymore. I've just kind of like. I've, I've understand these things are volatile. And so like I was talking yesterday. It's like, you know, I just don't feel the pain guys like the pain isn't here. And then we dropped another

bit and I was starting to like feel like, okay, there's a little bit of pain going on here. But still nothing like I felt like back in 2017. It's nice to be in a second cycle rather than my first cycle that is definitely new feeling. Now your second cycle is way better. When you've had the entire bull market to accumulate. That's a big improvement. Yeah, I

just never really integrated like, you know, $1,300 ETH into my like brain. I didn't, it didn't feel real, right? Didn't feel like it was, it was there. And Bitcoin probably didn't, I didn't really feel like $30,000 Bitcoin was real. And then it continued to go all the way up to 40,000. Um, things are weird, man. Things are weird. Yeah, things are really weird. And I guess

before we keep talking about price, like, it's been a while since we got on POV. I feel like a lot has happened, right? Like, what was the, like Bitcoin price was sub 20K last time we talked. Yeah. That was before even breaking all time highs. Yeah. Ether was around like five or six hundred dollars. Yeah. No, it's a, things have happened really, really fast, really, really

quickly. I can't figure out how to account for why things have moved so fast. Well, I just, it's kind of like when you look at like previous Bitcoin cycle, if you look at it in linear, like they once a new cycle happens, the previous cycle, like it looks like it's just part of the flat line prior to, you know, the, the latest bubble. So, I mean,

same thing is happening again. Yeah. And I'm trying to map out like where we are in the cycle, like for when we got into it in 2017, we got into, I got into it in like August, you know, the second half of the year 2017, that doesn't, I don't feel like we're you're completely there yet. It doesn't feel like we are close. Oh, you know, I

would say we're close. I don't think we're there yet, but I would say that we're close. You don't think that we're close to that part in the cycle. No, really. We have like six months away from that. Six months. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So previous Bitcoin all time high was $1,000 before 2017 all time highs. And then around when you got in, like Bitcoin was

trading around between like high 3000 to 4000 to 5000. Okay. So that's, you know, three to five X all time highs. So, I mean, we got one X, we got one X it. Yeah. Yeah. Does it work like that though? Can we, can we just extrapolate like in that one to one fashion? Yeah. It's hard to say. It's not financial advice. It's not financial advice. Definitely

not. As you can see, the way I think about this market is not very scientific either. Well, people try and to put it into a science and like you totally can put it into a science, but I find it much more easy to just say, effort, like, you know, put in some bids and then don't think about things like people asking, oh, what's your, what's your

cell targets? What's your price targets? And I'm like, I don't know, a higher number. Think about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't even really have cell targets for Bitcoin really. I think I should think, I should think about this stuff a little bit more. It's always good to have a plan. But I'm not really even thinking about FIA. I'm just trying to make the,

that Bitcoin number go up. Yeah. No, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. You, one thing I've noticed Christian to change the subjects a little bit is the diverging ecosystems between Bitcoin and Ethereum. Like Bitcoin, you're seem to be doing their Bitcoin thing and Ethereum people seem to be doing their Ethereum thing. Like in the, in the, in the bear market when everyone was on board and

we were, we seem to be like two communities that were really proximate to each other. And that's why it's so much of the fighting happened. And it seems to be our community has really just kind of separated. Like we don't, there's less conversations happening and people seem to be focused on their own, their own priorities. Would you agree with that take? Well, I mean, I think

there's definitely bull market vibes where everyone is busy pumping their own shit. And like, they're not bored. Like, you know, there was points in the bear market where Bitcoin is and they're fighting each other about stuff, you know, in the bear market people fight. It's just a thing. So I feel like this is pretty normal. I mean, ultimately pretty much everyone on crypto Twitter is, you

know, roughly in the same community in my opinion. So like, yeah, you know, there's different sex or whatever. But for the most part, people are generally like free thinking, libertarian, ask, want to travel young. Like I feel like there's like this group of people that, you know, is playing around in the crypto space, like between Bitcoiners and hardcoreetherians, like they're a lot closer than, than they

are compared to like someone who's a no coiner. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. Maybe, yeah, maybe we just, because we're all a little bit more wealthy that we just have less things to fight about and less stress is going around. Yeah, I mean, you're not so mad when you see a thousand dollar. You know, you're sitting on, you know, on, on, on, on, W. okay,

Bitcoin vice versa. Yes. It's a me to listeners that have, you know, cause this podcast got started in the 2018 bear market. So to put the hat to the last listeners, shout out our uscaus, walk in some of the other ones that have stuck with us all the way through while I'm sure your bags are doing pretty well as as well. Yeah. I mean, I think

that one of the themes of the bear market was not only that big coiners were right. But also, so a theory into a pretty right, like maybe Bitcoiners were wrong about Ethereum and Ethereum's maybe wrong about Bitcoin, but DeFi emerging and then obviously Bitcoin really playing into the macro narrative kind of proved both sides correct. You know, and the people who made the most money were

the ones who are holding everything, you know, kind of holding both ecosystems. Well, that was like our thesis going into this podcast. Maybe maybe it was more of my thesis than it was yours, but I was always of the belief that it was going to be a Bitcoin and Ethereum and specifically nothing else. Like that's where I draw the line. Like EOS ain't come in, like,

Diffinity ain't come in Dan Larimer just left yes. Yeah, Dan Larimer ain't come in. That's for sure. Well, maybe he is because he sold all his EOS for ETH and BTC. He has a lot of both. Yeah, that's true. Scammers typically have a lot of crypto. Yeah. That's also something I tried to position myself in this, the lesson I tried to learn in this cycle is

like during the last cycle, I was 100% ether are very rarely held any Bitcoin ever. And that caused me stress, right? Like I would watch the Bitcoin price go up and the either price knocker will up and I would feel FOMO. And like part of part of the experience that I've gotten in this cycle is that you know, I've just learned to not feel FOMO. But

also I position my bag so that you know, I don't feel FOMO because literally I have exposure to both assets, right? It's just easier when you have exposure to both. Like you just have you don't have to think as many as hard like you don't have to stress out about how convicted you are. That's definitely a takeaway that I've experienced in this cycle. Well, I think

the long term thesis, it's good to be right about which asset is gonna like kind of win the money game. But in the short term, they're both gonna pump. And then that way, like let's say you're more ETH bullish, you can sell BTC at the top for ETH. And then if you're more BTC bullish vice versa and you don't actually have to sell, you know, your

hodlestash of what you treasure as what you think is gonna be global reserve current. So I think that's the key to the importance of BTC. Although personally, I think if you're selling BTC at any point in the next few years, most likely you'll just own less BTC. Yeah. So here's a question I have for you. Do Bitcoiners try and sell the top because like the criticism

of from Ethereum's two Bitcoiners would be like, you know, they are so incredibly like religious and ideological that like they'll see like $2 million BTC at the end of like 20, 22 and they'll still they still won't sell because of how like convicted and ideological there are. And that's a dumb thing to do because like there's nothing real about that. So like do Bitcoiners talk about

selling? Like how? What are sell targets? What are like just peer-vershared have like a price target? Like what's going on in that kind of world? Well, there's different like I feel like there's stronger trader vibes in the DeFi community. Obviously because DeFi is trading infrastructure. So Bitcoin doesn't necessarily have like everyone in Bitcoin isn't necessarily like a trader. And there's a lot of like the really

hardcore stackers that will never sell. And I have a majority of my Bitcoin position that I would allocate to that that thesis is I'm not selling it for Fiat. And I'm happy to eat 80% drawdowns. I don't care. But with that being said, like there are absolutely a lot of Bitcoiners who are like, this is a four year cycle. There's going to be a top. I

just endure 2018, 2019 not doing that again. Like I'll be an asshole to not take profits. And then there's more Bitcoiners are like you asshole. If you sell at the top at this point, guess what's going to happen? It's not going to draw down as much. You're going to pay taxes. And then all the institutions are going to buy it to the moon. It's never coming

back. So there's like there's all kinds of of angles and like I think that many Bitcoiners that have lived through the the past bear market. I'm sure many people in the theory of space. They don't want to do that again. Like they don't want to be sitting on all these paper gains and then not take some out and then buy back lower. They don't want to

do that. Yeah, I definitely fit in that category where I would like to have locked in way more profits than I did in 2017 this cycle. However, I am compelled by the argument that like this last this coming cycle is kind of the last big cycle before things like really smooth out. Right. Because like at this point, who's left? Like after we get the big institutions

to allocate BTC to their treasuries and then purchase ether and best and ether for whatever reason. At this point, there's no there's no like part of the world that's like unaddressed. Like the whole entire world has been unaddressed. Therefore, like the the correction or the bear market that would be coming after this hype cycle. I think would be relatively muted. And I think that that's that's

a very logical position to have. Yeah. So I'm actually putting out a podcast on Wednesday. So that would be the 13th of January with Bitcoin Tina called the hardest trade. And it's talking about this exact thing is like the last cycle, this is a bubble and these were all illegitimate assets, the majority of the world. That is not the case this time around. Like that is

something that is very, very, very fundamentally different. And maybe there's going to be a blow off top. I just I can't see a world where the these investors, these institutions behave the same. So, you know, these aren't your DJ like the majority of the money is going from DGEN's young DGEN's to like, you know, capital allocators. That's a very different debt like type of person. Right.

Yeah. So I actually wrote about this in today's news release out of the bankless newsletter. And it first off, it was it's titled Welcome to the Show as in like this is our first big like retracement of this cycle. But then at the end, I posed the question is like, are are these markets going to be different because of the entrance of these new players, specifically

the players that weren't able to participate last time, the people with big money move slower and they don't feel a phoma or they don't feel emotions mainly because it's not their money. It's like the money of an institution and institution can't feel emotion. And they just tend to be the people that make one to three trades or a year. Right. Just that's it. And they don't

they don't see a wick on a candle and capitulate. That's not who they are. Well, also they just don't need to. Right. Like let's just say, you know, you had a hundred you had $100,000 $50,000 going into 2016, you know, you made millions on Bitcoin and crypto. That's all your wealth. You have nothing else. You need to read you need to redistribute. Otherwise, you're exposed to

the volatility. These organizations, they already have trillions and trillions and trillions of assets. Like they're not and they're not buying crypto. So that way, it can triple their portfolio size and then read and then, you know, diversify, you know, they're buying it as a diversification to increase their sharper ratio. You know, so, crypto to them is the diversifier, not something that they're planning on buying, writing

up and then selling in order to make bank. Yeah. No, that's exactly right. And that's going to that. I like that title, the hardest trade or what was it? The most difficult. Yeah, the hardest trade, the hardest trade. Yeah. There has to be a blow off top because we are already seeing reflexivity. When we say when we see Bitcoin take like three months to go from

like 10 K to 20 K and then three weeks or less to go from 20 K to 40. That's reflexively. Literally between POV podcasts. And so like, if reflexivity is happening, then blow off tops are happening. And then there's definitely a top to be sold. It's just, it's the timing. The bottom, I think, is the bigger question is like, that's going to be the harder thing

to time. Yeah. It's. Yeah. I completely agree. And I don't think we need to like weigh on this too much. I would say that me and you agree. And that's a very unpopular opinion still, which is going to be interesting to see. I think that's going to be interesting to see that play on the next like 12 months. Yeah. So what topic do you want to

turn to next? Do you want to talk about a de-platforming? Yeah. I mean, like the last five days. So hey, we're recording on the 11th, the last five days, we've seen some pretty unprecedented, like unilateral de-platforming of both Donald Trump and the partner app by like every single centralized organization. Yeah. We're not talking about. Yeah. I mean, it is coordinated. Or is it a like the

big boys are taking lead and then everyone else is just copying them. But regardless, it's like every single centralized internet provider has pretty much said you can't be on the internet anymore. And now we just see a pathway for how people can be booted off the internet completely. So here's my take on this. In the same way, COVID and the money printer go Birmingham was like

the starting pistol, the starting pistol for Bitcoin. I think that the de-platforming of Donald Trump is another starting pistol. For Web 3. Maybe and I do think that Web 3 is not as far long as Bitcoin is in its growth and development and maturity. But I think the starting pistol is still sounding saying like, Hey, like the president of the United States just got silenced. Like

he as a person, that person just got silenced. And that can happen to you. And I know that like 40% of the country. Yeah. Sure. And 40% of the country. Yeah. And as somebody that has a Twitter account that is extremely valuable to me, at the very least, I resonate with that. Like I don't really care too much about Donald Trump not having a platform, but

I care about me having a platform. And I would not want to be de-platformed. And as somebody who speaks out as a pundit of an emerging emerging industry that perhaps has a lot of haters. Like I feel I feel a little bit, you know, nervous about just de-platforming. Now I'm not telling people to go like mob and tack the the the white house or capital hill

or whatever. But still like, you know, I'm promoting something that is has an anti-state stance. Literally, my podcast is is bankless is about like having learning how to live without needing the state. Like that's not something that the state likes. And I think the the Silicon Valley and the state are more aligned in that in my that they are more aligned together than than what I

would want them to be with regards to my personal interests. Yeah, I mean completely right. And here's the thing is like you see a lot of people on the left and younger people like celebrating this stuff, but it's just very very short-sighted, right? Like we don't know when you're going to unilaterally be deemed like the bad person. Like and clearly we have no choice. And the

person that just almost won the election now got deemed that. Like he went from almost being the president a second time almost like a lot of people in the country voted for him to zero. Like that's really scary unit of lateral power to have. And like that's literally the point of Bitcoin crypto is no one should have that. The infrastructure should provide these assurances to anyone

no matter what. Yeah, so he he there's a conversation that the Democrats might rally to try and impeach him so that he can't run for a second term. But if he say they don't get that effort and he doesn't get impeached and then Biden just becomes president, he still has the ability to run for president in four years again. Like you can still do that. But

not if he doesn't have his Twitter account like no like it's as it's might as well be an impeachment if you cut off his ability to communicate with the world. Yes, ish, but what I would actually say is that this is just the catalyst for building the alternative system. And what you said is like this is the catalyst for web three. I don't 100% agree with

that. I think that this is the catalyst for self hosting. And I think like maybe that is like the biggest like technical differentiator between big coiners and how they see the decentralized future versus like maybe a theory and two C like a theory and being that substrate that coordinates that. I think big coiners see it as just more like people are going to see the value

of self hosting and they're going to do it more. And I think that this is proving that right like parlor startups that all like centralize their dependence on servers to AWS. You know, they're going to start maintaining their own servers again. And like that's going to be more important. People might maintain their own personal servers and like products like that. Just like, you know, plug and

play nodes, plug and play personal servers are going to become more and more of a thing. So. I just think that it's like the the alternative system, which is going to comprise of everything in the theory of everything in big coin, everything in the like open hardware software space like that is all going to unite together to kind of like create this alternative. And I'm making

sure that I'm going to be able to do that. And I'm going to set it. I'm bullish like, you know, if this would have happened 10 years ago, like what the hell would we have done? Like obviously the world is a different place Twitter and Facebook were less powerful back then. But still there was like nothing to fall back on. Now I see big coiners going

to mast it on going out of this other stuff, linking their Twitter accounts so they can keep tweeting but build non needs elsewhere. Like there's just the foundation for people to escape the release valve is there. And I think that crypto is a huge part of that. And with or more resonant with like self hosting versus Web 3, I think that's more of a semantics thing.

I would consider like self hosting be it to be like a Web 3 is just type thing. I mean, people don't even know what Web 3 is. And I don't even know what Web 3 is mainly it's just like protocols acting as the same infrastructure for Web 2. And maybe that's on a theory or maybe it's not. Well, I mean, I guess big coiners just don't

like a theory and lingo. Yeah, unless they're ripping off a theory of memes like few and have fun saying poor although maybe half on same point was a I think that was you guys few was few was well, no, few was you guys, but the Ethereum community made it a meme. Few came out of here. We're short. Okay. All right. Well, then I guess we get

it all we originally. Never mind. Yeah. Um, my statement. Yeah. So like, Erbit is definitely Web 3. I would say I would call that Web 3. But again, I would say like I would criticize the Web 3 as a slogan because this is just relatively like undefined and you know, kind of meaningless. Yeah, Erbit's very much on the like the self host. Personal computer thing. And

Erbit touches Bitcoin Ethereum and beyond too. So I think artisises is still accurate. Yeah, totally. Well, okay. So you want to turn to the conversation to regulation? I don't know. I mean, like, what are you, what are you seeing in 2021? Like, I would say that here's something different. Like, our friends are our college friends. Like, they are not scared of these kind of dips. Like,

they're like, oh, I want to buy the dip on this. Like, I think more and more people are valuing Bitcoin crypto generally. And they're like, they're excited about buying the dip. And I think that's institutions and other people like, that's that's proof of like Lindy. That's proof of Lindy, which is super exciting. Yeah. I have. So I have a growing Instagram chat. I don't know why

it's on Instagram. It just is. That's like turned into like 15 or 16 people. You should just be me and somebody from college. And then it's in the friends of friends. You can get out of that one. Yeah. Yeah. I invited Christian and then Christian came in with his BTC. Maximilism. And I just yeeted him right out of the group. Because we're because the group is

literally titled DeFi DGN. It's about speculating on low cap all coins. I missed out on EFI at like under a thousand bucks. Yeah, that is true. That is true. That is where it's 100% true. That's not the fuck it. It started with Wi-Fi. That's right. Anyways, the group is like, and it's absolutely fascinating to me to watch like that group got started at like 400 ETH,

$400 ETH and like $900 or $9,000 Bitcoin or something. Yeah. And like people were throwing in a couple hundred dollars. And so like, you know, people threw a couple hundred dollars into Wi-Fi at like, you know, $3,000. And they weren't really paying attention to ETH. But then as soon as ETH like fucking pumped to a thousand dollars and Bitcoin pumped to $40,000, like people were like,

all right. I mean, a wire in like $5,000 to Coinbase. I'm like, you had $5,000 in your back pocket and you didn't put it in like three months ago. Like, what the fuck were you doing? Like, now the prices are three X higher. Like it's fucking crazy that like as the price of the price of these things go up, everyone wants to buy more of them.

Yeah, it's backwards. Have you heard of the term Viblon good? No, we're giffing good. No, I'm not. Both describe a good that as their price increases, so this demand has a backwards demand curve or an upside down demand curve, whereas like most things like, okay, I'll buy those shoes for 10 bucks. Okay, I'll buy those shoes for 20 bucks. Less people will buy it for 30

bucks. Even less people will buy it 50 bucks, you know, 60 bucks. You know, no one's buying it, right? So Bitcoin, no one wants to that 10K. No one wants that 20K. No one wants that 25K. 30K. How do I get the money? Right. And I mean, same with, I mean, the only thing like assets are like this. But as assets without cash flows, I feel

like that it acts even more like a like a giffing good or a Viblon good. Because like companies, companies have that kind of reflexivity. But then you just look at, you know, the cash flows and the fundamentals and you're like, holy crap, like the price to earnings is stupid. And then that kind of brings people down. But right now, like, there's just not enough understanding for

that kind of analysis to happen on a macro level. And so well, I was initially a subscribe to this idea that yeah, that's totally a true phenomenon. But basically, based off the fact that like, as there are some institutions that literally can't buy Bitcoin below a certain price, otherwise they just pumped the market and like they don't like to do that, right? So they have to

wait for Bitcoin to be like $50,000. So that they can actually allocate capital to it. That makes sense to me. But it's like the, it's like the retail FOMO, whereas like it's the, they won't buy it until it until it gets the 3X, like that's just weird. Because there's a lot of understanding. And then it's just FOMO. Yeah, at that point. And like with that, I

mean, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say,

I'm going to start by wondering, and it doesn't matter to you. Granted, like the people that really captured, like, you know, Bitcoin going from like 6.7K to 40K or Ether going from $200 to $1,000. Only those people weren't the people that aren't these type of people. Those people are the people that suffered through the bear market, right? Very few people like Exited in 2018 and then

invested their money in the stock market and then came back in early 2020 very few people did that you either stuck all the way through it or you phomowed in at like $800.000 ETH and $30,000 Bitcoin. Yeah, no, you're, I think that's completely accurate. These markets will always take the way of most pain. I don't have much to talk about else. I think we should give

the audience a quick update on like what the fuck we've been up to. The past month has been crazy for Bitcoin magazine. So I've completely taken over there. So Bitcoin magazine is run by me, Joe Rogers and a squad of hungry Bitcoiners. So then super busy on that and that's kind of played into why we've been doing a fewer, a few less POV shares. Yeah. So

we'll talk about a little bit more of the type of content that's coming out of Bitcoin magazine. Like what's your guys, what's your guys is deal right now? I mean effectively we're like the oldest Bitcoin slash crypto news company. We've kind of transitioned more into like embracing being a magazine and we only do BTC stuff. We definitely have like a Bitcoin maximalist bent. Not like I

would say like a hard like we're not like the hardest core. Maxi's on the internet trolling everyone that's like not our bent, but we're very much all about BTC and here to like amplify anyone has something intelligent to say about BTC the ecosystem. Whatever. So we're a magazine where people can publish and amongst all the amongst all the de platforming like we're a great option. Like

why would you publish on on medium and and potentially risk getting de platform. There's a history of crypto and Bitcoin stuff getting de platform. You can work with us. Some thoughtful content. You'll get an editor. You have a person to work with and we do a bunch of podcasts. We do a bunch of live streams. We put on the biggest Bitcoin conference, which we are struggling

to to organize just because of all the uncertainty, but we are working hard to make it happen in 2021. So it's just an all around Bitcoin media Bitcoin culture company. A lot of fun. Maybe you want to give the viewers a sneak peek of that image behind you. This thing. Yeah. I feel like it's a very pro Bitcoin media or Bitcoin magazine type image. Anyway. Yeah,

Dean. It's a Bitcoin conquering fiat and shit coins. But yeah, I mean, and I know like you guys have been taking huge steps with bankless and launching that. How are things going on your end? Well, before we get there, I actually do have to say that like one of the big things that frustrated me in 2020 is that like the Ethereum community and the Theorem, like

just like news cycle that specifically Ethereum topics, not crypto. Just forgot to talk about like still COVID and inflation. Like COVID and money printing and inflation. We didn't start talking about that until we still don't really as a community, right? And so like for from my understanding trying to get my grasp on like these markets and how these and how they're just being knowledgeable and being

an informed investor, I that's I went to Bitcoin magazine to hear about like federal reserve policy inflation. That's where I got to know like Lynn Alden. And like that was one of the few dependable sources of information that I could to could get to talk about just like macro. Like Ethereum people don't care about macro. And that's kind of a bummer to me. Yeah, Bitcoin people

only care about macro. And a lot of times they kind of skim over like the details. That you know Ethereum people really appreciate and are kind of building. But yeah, I mean, we're trying to be a resource again like a lot of the articles and content that we're putting out, you know, to kind of like hardcore Bitcoiners like sounds like, Hey, Bitcoin is good. But to

outsiders, they're looking at this like, wow, this is in depth macro analysis. And there is some fantastic stuff coming out there, you know, from a macro perspective, not just you know beyond, you know, Bitcoin as an ideology as a culture as a technology. So, working hard to just keep it as a resource and a Bitcoin resource too. So if you want to learn about the history

of Bitcoin, lightning, all that kind of stuff, we've been doing it since 2013. So we have a huge archive of historical stuff. Well, yeah. And you're getting into the writing game too, aren't you? Yeah, I mean, dude, you've been fucking outing me on writing for so long. And finally finally getting on it, I put out a hit piece where I criticize Ethereum back in the day.

I didn't know in November. I put out an op-ed called the sovereign company thesis, which is looking more and more pressure. And now I'm working on a handful of other ones. And I'll use one that's probably going to come out soon called the Cantalon Effect 2.0. So trying to get it on the thought leadership from the writing perspective too. Yeah, writing is nice because it sharpens

your own swords while you are writing it. Writing is as somebody who has written a decent amount like I've benefited from my writing just as much as my audience has. So I would expect that same thing to happen to you. When you're going on Peter McCornick's podcast, is that happening? Sometime next month. Yeah, we're organizing it. He wants to talk about the sovereign company thesis. Okay.

So my one critique of the sovereign company thesis was that once again, it was Bitcoin focused when it didn't need to be. Like it could have also have been Ethereum. Ethereum can create a sovereign company as well. Yeah. No, I mean, I totally can, but Bitcoin is like the best thing that could become a digital reserve currency. So it makes more sense to use Bitcoin as

the category word. Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah, plus Bitcoin magazine. Sure. Fair enough. Fair enough. Speaking of, rep in the op-seq friendly Bitcoin magazine T. So check out our stores. Well, is that just a Bitcoin magazine logo, but it's just pixelated. Yeah, pixelated on Bitcoin. So just as magazine. Love it. That's funny. Yeah, very few people are going to understand that. Right. Dude, it's for the Bitcoiners.

It's not for the no-continuous. Yeah. But yeah, now let's talk about you, man. What do you been doing? I mean, obviously building Bankless, you guys have absolutely been crushing it. Been super impressed. Taking notes on my end. What are the last two months been for you? Dude, absolutely insane. Yeah. So we've turned Bankless into a program with a drumbeat, right? And so we have a pretty

regular drumbeat. Monday is the podcast. Tuesday is the state of the nation. Wednesday, there's no, there's no video. There's just a newsletter. Thursday, there is the weekly rollups and every other week, there is a AMAs. And then, and then we publish the weekly rollups, which is like a news news recap once a week on Friday. So every other, there's either three pieces of content that go

out a week or four, every other Thursday, we do the AMA. And so that, that is a great thing. It is a fuck ton of content. And that's what keeps me busy all the fucking time. And then we also have the Monday through Friday newsletter. And so that's Monday, it's just the opening note, the opening note to the week, Ryan or me or somebody else kind

of give some sort of just like five to 700 words, just like note commentary as to what's going on. Usually about the market or something in the news cycle. And then there's a bunch of resources in there for people that actually pay for the subscribe to Bankless. Tuesday, tactics. Wednesday, Wednesday, Thursday, thought piece, just some content from external writers or something from me or Ryan or

Selis. And then on Friday, we have like our open thread. So it's like a question that people can come and comment on. So a full program. And what we're trying to turn this into actually is just like a onboarding material for noobs. Basically, the thesis is that a bunch of people are going to come into this base. They are going to figure out, they're trying to

figure out how to learn. And we are trying to guide them correctly. So we have this metaphor of going west. And it's also dangerous to go alone. And so you want to take a group of people with you. And that's what the Bankless Nation is supposed to be. No, I love it. The marketing is just like complete a class marketing. It's fantastic. And the narrative, everything

like the whole program. It's really something to congratulate yourself on building. Thanks, brother. I can definitely thank Twitter for that one. Twitter is a great just way place to learn marketing skills. Totally. And I'm, dude, let's talk about Twitter a little bit. I'm just kind of hurt by Twitter. I love Twitter so much. I think it's just such a fantastic tool for learning and exercising and

sharpening and community building and everything. And just seeing all this stuff and like, wow, Twitter is fundamentally broken. And at some point, the future of networking is going to be elsewhere. And I'm excited and hopeful that it's going to be better and fair. But it sucks to kind of just see this like thing that you've been spending so much time on. Kill itself a little bit.

At least that's my take. Yeah, so I feel like that's the right wing slash bit corner take. I'm not sure everyone is ready to hop on that board. So maybe you want to elaborate on why that's your opinion. I mean, there's just a lot of people have been marginalized. And it seems like it's objectively not fair or consistent. So I mean, I, I would say I'm

more of a libertarian, but more conservative ish. But I don't, I'm not a Trump support of never voted for Trump. Never even liked it. You know, like I don't like Trump at all. You know, I don't. I've never voted for Republican. I voted for a while and once. So like truly like I try to be like impartial and it just seems like, you know, the combination

right now. And that's just not good for communication and ideas spread in America, in my opinion. So let's see, there's, there's two paths of conversation we could go down. You said a capture by the left. And this, this, my mind goes back to Vitalik's article that he wrote about concavity versus convex dispositions and how big corners tend to be extreme thinkers and, and other people, if

you're in tend to be more like middle ground saying like we can, we can take a best of, best of all things, perspective and big corners are like, you know, if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. And so like, I think this debate boils down to the, the fact that like, can Twitter and Twitter leadership, you know, de platform, the president of the

United States and also still hold themselves accountable to fairness and balance. Or do you think that it just is a slippery slope that devolves into just systemic de platforming and systemic capture, as you said, by the left. I'm still in the camp that like, it is possible for leadership to take a rational unbiased perspective about de platforming without going too far. I think that that is

a possible thing to do to get done. And, and Eric Voorhees on, on a video that we just recorded that should be coming out sometime soon. He would rather have Jack be the person doing the de platforming rather than the central government. That he thinks that that's a good thing in between those two options. I'm more optimistic that you're muted. I'm more optimistic that Twitter leadership

can de platform without devolving into something just dystopian and bad. I guess, I mean, I don't know like Twitter has the right to de platforming. It's their platform, right? And I don't want them to be regulated because that's captured. Like we already know that that's captured. Like, so I don't want them jumping into this shit. So I agree with Eric there. I just have less, maybe

I have less faith in you and Twitter's leadership's ability to, you know, to get it done. I haven't seen anything to show me that they can do it well. I think part of this debate is because of course this debate is about Donald Trump because this was the instance that basically. Donald Trump is just the example. Sure. What can happen to you and your friends and

your company and anyone else who is on the wrong side of whoever has the God button. Right. He's on the wrong, but he's on the wrong side of, and this goes back to like, do you believe what do you like Donald Trump or do you not like Donald Trump? Because like if you don't like Donald Trump, and I think he's gross and I think that all

those people busted through the house. What the fuck were they thinking? And it's all cringe-worthy, but still, but still. But yeah, that's where I'm like ready to be like, well, Donald Trump, this guy that lost an election, and I do believe that he lost the election, is it tried to figure out, flailed about and tried to surmount a coup to like take over the government. I

think that's what happens more or less. Like we could debate the nuances, but I think if you want to boil it down into his ends, he tried to go around the law to keep maintaining. He didn't lose grace. That's for sure. How serious was that coup like, okay, I think that was the biggest joke of a coup I've ever seen if you want to call it

that. It was pretty gross. It was cringe. I feel like that's it was disrespectful. But like it was more organized. President to destroy rights. Maybe that's where, you know, maybe that's where I'm just unwilling to go. I mean, people died. People died because of Donald Trump's tweets. People died. And one of them, people died because of every single politician that is making orders right now. Not

to say that they're the same, but like, are we actually measuring this stuff by deaths? If you're going to say that people died, then let's count deaths. And let's see who's, which politicians are most responsible for deaths. The difference is intense though. That's intent. Okay. So tweeting ignorantly is not super responsible to me. I'm just trying to say, like, let's be even killed here before we

do things that fundamentally change how society works, how rights are viewed, managed and defended. Like we're talking about the bedrock of society. And then we're talking about incidents. And then changing the bag of rock of society to address incidents is pretty fucking crazy, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely, I definitely don't like it. And I also don't think it's even the most viable strategy. Like

keeping Donald Trump on Twitter and not de-platforming him, I think would actually be the right move to achieve the goals that whoever wanted to de-platform Donald Trump to achieve. Like he's, he was just going to burn himself out regardless. And now, like, now the right even feels more victimized. And now they have even more proof. And now they feel like it probably even more energized. Yeah,

I mean, there was a point where people on the right were just, were, were, you know, essentially saying, you know, we don't condone what Donald did. Like his lack of speaking during the whole instant was a shame, a sham, all this stuff. And then all those people were coming to, you know, agreement with, you know, against Donald Trump. And then all of a sudden, because of

this like massive de-platforming and like massive coup of like right, you know, kicking out of anyone who has like, right any sort of like hard-quartled right wingness, like that's effectively isolated these people and forced them to double down. Yeah. Now it's like, it's us versus them. Instead of like, oh, here's this rational thing where I can, you know, I can condemn this action by Donald Trump.

I don't know. I clearly feel strongly about this. And like, I don't think it's good for left-right relations and left-right relations are awful right now. I saw, I don't know what movie it was from. I saw Nick Carter tweet out. It was like some in a screenshot from a movie. And it was a reference to a movie that I can't remember, but maybe you do. But

it was like American democracy and Bitcoin to people staring out over like a burning skyline and like this dystopian movie. And the caption was from the speaker of the American democracy to Bitcoin. You've met me at a very interesting time in my life. And then alluding to the price pumping of Bitcoin to $40,000 while people are storming the US capital, like that's an interesting juxtaposition. And

I feel like that's kind of the story of the decade that is currently being written. I mean, Fight Club. That's what that scene was. Oh, really? I've only, I've actually never really watched Fight Club. All right. All the way through and through. Yeah. I think it's one, if there's like four movies, that are like after you become like a Bitcoin or crypto person, like that you

need to watch, you got to watch that one. I've watched it, but yeah, I've not, not with intent. I should watch it more. Yeah, watch it with intent. It's a good one. It's a legendary. It's a legendary movie. I notice, and it's like a mind-fuck-a-sue. So if you're into that, I'm into those kind of movies. I mean, I know the story. I know the story. But

yeah, I wouldn't be the one that I obviously can't, I'm missing references. So maybe I should not miss references and watch it. For sure. All right. Well, I think, I mean, hey, this is a good, this is a good little recording here. Guys, you know, at one point we were doing two shows a week in interviews. POV crypto is definitely, you know, taking a step back

in terms of how many shows we produce, but like, David and I, I think between us we put out like at least 10 pieces of content a week. It's just a lie. It's just a lie. And hey, if the listeners are missing us, like let us know. Like, well, if you guys yell enough, we'll come back. Yeah. But so, I mean, we're gonna, try to get

consistent. We're trying to figure out a groove. Like, this is the first time that we tried to really do POV crypto while both being full-time, bankless and Bitcoin magazine. So, uh, have a little bit of patience while we figured out. But until then, you can follow me at CK underscore Snarks. You can follow me also at Bitcoin Magazine. If you're on Macedon at CK Snarks at

BitcoinHackers.org and same for Bitcoin Magazine at BitcoinHackers.org. So check it all out. And, uh, yeah, keep on. Keep it on by the dip. All the above. Interestingly, POV crypto was created. So both Christian and I could get jobs in this space and turns out that's exactly what that podcast did. So, we'll see. Will you deceive? Will you deceive? Will you deceive? Will you deceive? We'll never

grow in order. We'll never grow in order. We'll never grow in order. We'll never grow in order.