Roval: Larsons massive disappointment; Suarezs physical toll; Briscoes mad dash; the Next Gen and road courses; Formula One salary cap controversy

Hi, welcome to the NASCAR NBC podcast. Nate Ryan back here in our Charlotte NASCAR NBC studio on the Monday after the roval round of 12 cutoff race where we are joined in Charlotte for I believe the second time this season. Parker Kligerman is here. So not often that we get you down here. So to what great honor do we owe your presence? I had to go

do some simulator work had to is actually the wrong word got to have the opportunity which is cool. So that was nice. Did about three and a half hours of simulator. Somehow my hair didn't get affected because we were in the helmet in there. It's perfectly impressed with motor mouth. Yes, but it's still it did not get affected. So that's perfect. But that brought me down

North Carolina. We mixed in the NASCAR NBC podcast and now motor mouth afterwards. Yeah works out great full day works out really well for both NASCAR NBC and my allowed to ask who the simulator was. No, okay. Hey, and undisclosed. I like him in manufacturer. That's going to I like to stress things up. I'm just going to say no. Okay. All right. We won't ask any

more simulator questions today until after I hit the stop button on this recorder. Let's talk roval then. And we'll start obviously with the winner. Christopher Bell. We had him on motor mouths. I think it was coming out of Texas. Like you and I were on that program where we were talking. And I thought he seemed like he was in good spirits going into Talladega. But then

he tells us after he wins. The race yesterday, second victory, the year advances into the round of eight in a must win situation. Christopher Bell tells us that he's been down in the dumps pretty much since Texas all the way through Talladega. It didn't get the home run. You needed to tell a day. And obviously goes into the roval knowing to others have run so poorly

on road courses this year. Granted, it was a very opportunistic thing where there was a lot of chaos at the end this race that put him in position to win on much fresher tires. But he ran the top 10 for much of this race and kind of put himself in position. Him and Adam. And then we went to the first round and they were just like

by far the best. And that really, I don't want to say it surprised me because they were telling me this each week as I was doing the pit reporting thing. And then we go to Texas and it's like it unravels and then we go to Texas and it's like it's not going to be a good thing. And Talladega continues downward spiral. And so I think this

one I sort of wrote them off. Like probably have what else because I just felt like you mentioned road courses have struggled for Toyota. I spoke to Chris Gapard after Talladega. He's like, you know, we did what we needed to do. We did what we need to do at Talladega because he's like I'm not confident about the roval. You know, they've had the engine issues with

the rev limiter on the TRD motors in terms of like when they hit the rev limiter, it was hurting those motors as we saw the base shoot. So they had. You know, that's something you do a lot of road courses, especially just being in between gears at certain corners. So I just think there's a lot of knowns there. And, you know, they took a gamble. I

don't know, you know, if it's a gamble because why not they had nothing to lose at that point put four tires on. There was a lot of fall off, which was great. And that vaulted them in, you know, through a couple great moves by Christopher Bell on the racetrack. So I didn't expect that by any means for them to pull this off. But I'm just not

surprised because they just seem to exude this kind of confidence that is now propiling them to round of eight. And two Toyota's in the top three. Again, I know a lot of things happened. Just to come this race. But actually, you know, three in the top seven, you look at Christopher Bell first, Kyle Bush third, double Wallace, who has certainly shown improvement on road courses, but

is generally not known as a road course racer finished his seventh did Toyota, maybe find something that we didn't see for see or know about. I mean, speaking of the crew chiefs, I don't know if there was a lot of confidence, but I know or believe that they may have, you know, figured out some of their motor issues and were able to sort of turn up

the way there for the road courses. So could that have been it, maybe a little bit on the uptick and performance. But, you know, I think they're still there's obviously still work to do there in the speed department, potentially. So it's, it's just been an interesting thing to follow. You know, just that shrunk. So we're just going to go on road courses this year, we just

don't historically see that right where a single may facture doesn't have the speed. Can just completely miss it, especially when it's just a completely new car. It's not like Chevy and Ford went in with any sort of advantage. So it's just like we just showed up and like, Oh, Toyota's just that much off, which was sort of crazy. But doesn't really matter no more road courses

left in the playoffs over the final four races. We're done with that. Yeah, we're done with that. And we'll get to that a little bit later. We're going to talk some more road course racing and the next gen, which interesting discussion to be had there on the flip side of Cebow. We've got Kyle Larson, who was almost disconsolate after the race parker after being eliminated as

the defending series champion does not even advance to the round of eight. And Larson said after the race, I just made way to new mistakes all year long and made another one a day and ultimately cost us an opportunity to go chase another championship. So just extremely mad at myself and you let the let the team down a number of times this year and and let

them down and make a big way today. So you'll keep fighting. We'll come back stronger and and I'll definitely come back stronger and smarter. You know, make better moves out there and just mad at myself. So there's no definitely no other person to blame by myself for today. So I feel like our team put ourselves in position as well as we could on points today and

got as many stage points as we could. You was I think plus 27 or eight at the time when I you know screwed up. So just for no reason either. I wasn't even pushing that hard at that moment and it got loose and caught me off guard. So yeah, I just got to keep working on my craft. Just be better and make a lot less mistakes.

Like I said, I made way to many mistakes this whole year and you can't win a championship like that. So yeah, no surprise that I made another mistake today and took us out of contention. So Kyle Larson does bear some of the brunt here because it's a great way to make a lot of mistakes. It was him brushing the wall that bent this broke this toe

link or whatever and caused him to go five laps down and pretty much took destiny out of his hands where he could learn to sort of control his fate. But does he deserve all the blame? I mean, did you think he was almost almost shouldering too much? I've went wrong this year. What went wrong this year? Did he maybe just make one too many mistakes to

defend his title? Yeah, I think only they know, right? The team to level mistakes that either he made or they've made or just you know not been able to hit it in terms of execute. Throughout this year because I mean, we see the very visible stuff, right? We see the hit in the wall. That sort of thing, the issue at Indy. But more importantly to me

would be more of like, is there things we haven't seen, right? Is there small hiccups or stuff in terms of preparation? Whatever it is, right? So I think that's probably him being a little harsh on himself knowing his level of skill and talent and just I mean, the guy is unbelievable. I see him do things all the time and I'm just like, I don't know. Understand.

I was all that Watkins Glen just, I don't know, he was so good there in both races that I just sat there and all just like, how does this guy do this all the time? Like just and I remember talking about it and just being like, all right, what points he used? He's I don't know. Just drive it. All on feel. All natural. So I have

a tough time and I don't like this. I sound like, oh man, I just love colors. I just have a tough time putting him down because to me, he's a generational talent that will continue to submit that legacy over a long time. And you know, if it's if he believes he's making more mistakes than he should be, then I'm sure that something, you know, he Cliftonos

go talk about and figure out how maybe it's in the preparation side of things. It's in the mental side of things who knows, you know, I've always had that question about how many different race cars he drives all the time. If that could get him distracted at some point. But Cliftonos told me, you know, that's not really the case normally. So I don't know. I sure

that you come off a season like he had a season which was incredible. You don't have that same success and chance to go fight for the, you know, to back up your championship. That's probably a fresh race, frustrating place to be. But I think that he he's such a incredible talent that like, I don't know, even if he is making mistakes, he's probably 10% above just

about everyone else. I mean, the guy is clearly all world. And we're already talking about him possibly running the Indy 500 next year. Of course. This is what you great. And yeah, he'll be yeah, he'll be awesome. Wow, everybody. I'm sure getting into that car like he does in every vehicle he gets in. And this is not meant to cast aspersions on his talent whatsoever. But

I thought it's interesting what you brought up there about Cliftonos saying that no, we don't feel as if him running out of series would impact him in the cup series. Because last year, the narrative was very much. We wanted to run all these other series. There were all these questions about when he went to Hendrick Motorsports in that first year in 2021. How much will they

allow him to race? The other race all the time. And you know, he won the Knoxville Nationals. It seemed like he won dirt races all the time. And it did seem like it was helping him on the cup side. I think Daniel said on motormouse here once that he thought that it helped his restarts. But all that being said, it does seem as if he's maybe

not winning as much. I don't know. Maybe I'm not paying enough attention to dirt track. Well, no, he definitely. He had like a insane win record last year. And now I think he's at like 12%. Which, you know, most people that's like a career high slash Hall fame, where the percentage and race, you know, in racing, you're going to lose normally a lot more than you

win in Motorsports. Yet he's like, 12% is what is I think I'm at like a 2% win rate in my life right now. Yeah. I just thought Correasing. So, yeah, I just think that's his bar. That's his level. Right? It's just that high. It's set so high. I just the guy, you know, but this is the day job. Right? That's fun stuff. This is the day

job. This is the one that you really, you know, the top of the game. And I think, you know, there's potentially a bit of with this car and just the parody we've seen. It's going to be more often than not that you're not able to even really clearly cut run away from people, right? Where, you know, we've seen, you put a guy like Carl Erson was

an incredible car like last year and they went in an amazing amount of races and a championship. It might be more about the minutiae and the little things. Now as we move forward. And that might just be a mentality change. He has to make. And, you know, he and Cliftonals have to look at and sort of figure out how they need to approach that because it's

just a changing form, you know, how this racing is changing in its form. Yeah. And I'll give him credit. He was so. He was so inconsolable in that interview. Like there was no question that you don't, you didn't watch what he said after the race Sunday. I think, oh, NASCAR is just a nine to five thing. He'd prefer to be doing racing every night. Because that,

myself included, that was somewhat the knock on him earlier in his cup. I think some of us, again, I'll put myself in this category question. How much of a priority was NASCAR for Carl Erson? I think you saw from that interview after the roval that NASCAR very much is a priority. And it almost seems as if that champion chip last year maybe galvanized him a little

bit or maybe just driving for Hendrick. He just sort of is more appreciative. I mean, have you gotten that sense being around him in the last year and a half that maybe he's kind of changed his view of being in the cups. He's obviously he went through a lot of other things that transpired that maybe you've changed his perspective as well. But I think he just

respects it's the top level, right? You know, this is the highest level that there is in America that, you know, highest competition level you're going to run into in that sense and that there is a weight that comes with driving for Rick Hendrick and Hendrick cars.com on your car. Right? Yeah. They want to sponsor you and be a part of this because, you know, that comes

with immense weight to be driving for the most successful teams in NASCAR. So I think that is not lost in him. I would not for a second, you know, believe it. That's lost on him in any way, shape or form and that. Yes, there's an enjoyment level out of the other stuff. But I also think to me personally, he's just a guy who likes to race

drive race cars and race. And that other stuff allows him to do that. And I think no matter what it was, he would want to do it if the opportunity was in front of him to go race. Another driver who is eliminated Daniel Suarez, which I think coming into this race parker, if I would have told you that Daniel Suarez was going to finish third and

stage one, sixth and stage two, come in with, I believe you, 13 points up on the cut line. And then he was going to get eliminated. I think we're all going to have questions about how could that happen? He's a great road course race. We won it. Sonoma earlier this year. And he essentially got victimized by a part failure with the steering problems. And after we're

Daniel Suarez told Dave Burns, Daniel, when you knew that you were going to lose power and assist 100%, what did you tell yourself mentally and then how in the world did you do it physically? I guarantee you something. I'm the only driver in the field that could have finished the race the way my car was. Like my arms are completely destroyed. I have never felt like

this in my life. My shoulder is very bad. My hand destroyed. It was tough. It was very, very tough. We did what we needed to do in the first half of the race, getting stage points and everything. But once we got lost in the steering, it was pretty much just hoping for a little bit of luck, which we almost got it right there at the end.

But it's difficult to just relate in luck 100%. It's what it is. We have to continue to get better. I think we are the only car that actually had the same issues. So maybe something that we did, I don't want to say is a crappy power because I was the only one that had the problem. But we have to come back to a shop and look

well when we're wrong and trying to get a better better. And I told this could be about the worst place for it to happen in the field. I'm not flat, but when you hit the banking, all the forces are tugging against you. Honestly, it was very, very bad in the everywhere. I mean, there were a couple times, actually more than a couple times, I was just

screaming. I just needed to get it out. I mean, I was, it was for sure the most difficult race I had in my life. But I wasn't going to give up. You've driven one of these cars. What would it have been like to have essentially not just no power steering, but essentially, he had literally manhandled this thing around the roval, which didn't look very easy. I

mean, it would have been like, Bristol, right? Yeah. And I don't even know if you could do it. If you could even turn the wheel. I was, I was getting ill watching. I am texted buddy of my landing castle. And I said, Hey, I'm getting ill looking at this because it's just like, I know what he's going through. And there's just a helplessness. The weight of

that wheel and the, you know, the sinking feeling that it's all going wrong at the same time. And you're trying to power through and all your begging for is a caution. I've driven a car one time without power steering and it wouldn't even be as hard as these next gen cars. Where it failed, right? Now cars are designed without power steering all the time. Those are

different. But when you have a power steering car that fails, it is just one of the most excruciating experiences you'll go through because you saw him. He went from driving the car normally. It's slightly to eventually towards the end. He's literally putting his hand over the wheel and just tugging on it using his weight. Just trying because he's shoulders are destroyed as muscles are destroyed. And

I don't disagree them. That guy is an incredible shape. He's one of the very few that could do that. I think there's many drivers. I myself included. I have to look in the mirror real deeply and be like, could I do that? I don't even know. So that is heroic effort just to get that thing around there because you also all the load to the banking

of the roval which makes it incredibly hard. The slow speed corners. It's just that it is such a hard thing to do. You know, more power to him and finishing it. But in turn to the playoffs such scenario, devastating track house has been awesome to watch and see them go this far. And obviously they still have one going for it. But that is, that has got

to be heartbreaking. Because they basically did everything in their control. Right. Right. And just one thing goes wrong. And I'm sure they'll dissect it and hopefully not let it happen again. But we've seen that this year. Right. There's just been stuff like that that everyone's had. And it's just trying not to have it the wrong time. Yeah. And Suarez said he made the reference to the

crappy parts that Kevin Harbick and Martin Trois Jr. who both talked about. I don't think that NASCAR took the 99 after the roval, which is good. But he was somewhat making light of the fact that they were going to have to go back to the shop and diagnose was this. Another one of the part failures that the next gen unfortunately is experience. And there were a

lot of concerns going in the roval. Because this was where the steering issues first cropped up a year ago at the test. And Suarez ultimately was the only one that's affected. But there were several at Bristol. That was like maybe the first time that the cars got really exposed. What do you think NASCAR needs to do to look at this for 2023? Do the quality control

issues just kind of get sorted out on their own? Are there things that they need to do with the supplier, the vendor in this case, you know, can bulk these things up? I think it should be a constant evolution. I think I think this process, you know, this is just we're too high level to have failures of parts. If it is the part failing, right? Or

if it's if it's user error, that's different, right? But it just seems like we, you know, this is the second biggest auto racing, former water racing in the world. Why are we dealing parts that maybe aren't up to snuff? Right? Like that should be a quick evolution. Work through. So, the system process, evaluate, see more than one instance of it. Okay, quick resolution. Financially, there should

just be a slush fund at this point. I don't know how you do that. I'm not going to get deal that. But I'm sorry. This is the top level of American all racing. Find the money to fix it. It's ridiculous when I hear about money. And I'm just like, this is why just make the cars work that should not be an issue. Yeah, I think that

should just be a concept of evolution process because the car is something that the teams can't touch themselves. So, then it has to be a piece to be up to the sanction body to, you know, deems us the race car. You have to race to find a process to make that happen with those suppliers in real time. And if a supplier can't create a part that's

good enough, then you have to go find another one or figure it out because it's just I just think it is too much at stake. You have too much too many people who rely on the, you know, the actions of a Sunday, their livelihoods, their, you know, their careers or futures for it to come down to parts. That maybe aren't up enough. Right. Because you just

said it really well. I think a slush fund makes a lot of sense in an industry that literally has hundreds of millions of dollars flowing through it annually. Yeah. If there are problems at Bristol, then maybe the next step should be, hey, emergency test, a Charlotte motor speedway two days for now, or we make sure this doesn't happen again. Yes. And whoever, you know, working this

pliers. And I know there's constraints to making things happen. And I know that's what we've gone through here with the safety situation with the rear of the car. And it's, you know, it's gone as quick as it possibly can. But to me, that's where there's an issue. You know, where, where there's a will, there's a way. And I just, I think in the modern day, knowing

what, you know, these amazing in the private sector in terms of, you know, companies creating going into issues and being able to fix them in fast rapid fashion, designing new fashions, like this should be no different. It should be, it should almost be looked at as like an opportunity for NASCAR for motor racing to once again show its relevance. Okay. How quickly can you design a

real clip, get it tested and put it on the race on cars and design and may factored and all that stuff. Could it be done faster? We've ever done it before. Right. And could be done right. Like that's the thing. Like can you make a whole new steering system and fastest fashion possible? I know I'm not an engineer. There's a ton of engineers out there. They're

like, oh, it's ridiculous. But I watched Elon Musk land a rocket from the sky. Literally multiple times without any sort of help. It's landing on the ground. I think we can figure out how to make a better stream box. And if NASCAR can fix its steering issues and like two days or whatever, you know, maybe there are spin-offs or that kind of moonshot, you know, resources

and energy and work that we know that maybe it does go to an OEM and like, hey, there's processes here we can use in a street car. I don't know. It's just. Yeah. I just can't. I don't, I don't like. I don't like hearing like that's this. That's all it can be done. I remember. Just like that to me that then we would all be, you

know, if that was a case, we'd all be wide and round and horse carriages still. That's not how we beat the Russians to the moon. Damn. There you go. Yeah. Like that. Okay. Let's move on to the positive side. The roval chase brisco goes from essentially being out after getting spun on the second last restart gets fresh tires and then on the final restart makes this

incredible charge back into the playoffs makes this bonsai move into the chicane on the back stretch on the final lap. Your tweet, I thought explained it really well that he was breaking later and was also carrying way more speed into the chicane than he had at any point, I think during the previous 111 laps, explain how difficult that is because I know he was on fresh

tires. I'm sure that had something to do with it, but explain how difficult that is for a driver. Yeah. So what he did and it was aided by Johnny Kostner, you know, pumping the tires up to qualifying pressures, which essentially creates a ton more grip under breaking and a ton more grip through the corners. And we've seen this throughout the season where, you know, you can't

really change which on these race cars, but when we go from practice to qualifying, they've all these tires on, but they pump up the air pressures and something they go way faster. Yeah. Because you get a tip on them anything anymore, right? So it's pretty interesting how much grip that creates with this race car. And so when Chase was on that final lap, you know, he

gets the 43, he's trailing the three. And I watched us all on the data and you know, watched the video as well. And what he does is the second, the three is sort of about to start breaking. He pulls left and waits a second. And now a second doesn't sound like a lot, but at 160 miles per hour, I haven't done the math and so the

engineers listening out there. They had a really frustrated with the last bit of this conversation. Do the math for me. Tell me how far he went. I don't know, but it was roughly a second further at 160 miles an hour. He then nails the break about a hundred pounds more than he had prior on his. And I'm comparing this to his fastest lap in the race.

Yeah. He then carried five miles prior more to the center of the corner. Now from the point that he hits the break and all the people were like, oh my gosh, you only looked that way because the 41 were slowing up the three car. Yes, at the end of the breaking zone. What you didn't realize is that Chase broke vastly later than Austin Dylan and was

carrying five probably way more speed by the point, even if the 41 wasn't there, those two would have met most likely in the middle. And when the way I look at it, I think the 14 would have been almost a nose ahead of the three by the time they get to the right hand of the chicane. So to me, it was like a moot point that

the 41 was doing what he is doing other than he got around the 41, which he probably would have anyway because the 41. That was what was going on. But my point being, so there's a lot of fans, you know, armchair experts that were like, no, it's just because the 41 he didn't break that late and I went and found the data and initially saw that

and what that's a tough thing to do because he had to just basically bonsai it off that corner and guess, right? Like you've been running to this break marker into that corner all day for hours. And now, final lap cars around you, writing for your championship hopes, you have to just go on the gas and think, I'm going to break now. All right, let's see if

this works, right? And you get all the way down and it's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then carry, then get out of the break at the same point. So you're carrying five miles per hour more, just to guarantee that you get to the corner ahead of the people beside you. I thought that was a really impressive thing. And you even see him

lock up a little bit just at the last bit of the entry because he just was totally had sent it in there. And with hope that it stuck and it stuck. So I thought it was a really impressive move. It was cool. It was visible. And it just goes to show that the 14 can't be stopped. Like they are the team that can. And I don't

know if he goes all the way to the championship for it's one of the most unbelievable stories. Considering he entered the playoffs, I think with like out of top 10 in 21 weeks or something. I think he only has like six top 10s this season or something. But he's actually been, he was my dark horse pick. I said I was looking us up today. And ask

our American motor mouse on the Wednesday before Darlington. It was myself Kyle Petty Marty Snyder sitting here. We had to give our championship for first four out. And who's your dark horse? Surprise pick. And mine was Briscoe because yes, the results weren't showing it. But even like if you look at races like Watkins Glen, where when the track shifted from wet to dry and he and

Kloss Meyer made that huge gamble. Like be the first out on slicks. To me, that was not by accident or coincidence that he was that fast and that that team sort of sees that moment. Like the results don't show it because Chase Briscoe does make mistakes on track. And they have maybe made some questionable calls that have left him out. But. I don't think there's any

question he's shown that he deserves to be in the playoffs, even if the results haven't always been there. He's got the way that Phoenix. I think yeah, just the system. He's in the playoffs. Right. So he deserves to be there. But I, I think it's just been surprising to see this team. You know, we always look for consistency. They just haven't shown that right. And to

get the playoffs though. And then I think the impressive. Maybe more so this race, the most impressive race I saw was Texas. They were legitimately not a top 25 car. The beginning of that. And for a major portion of it, they made huge changes. The most changes I've seen done in a race in the next gen era. And I said that on the broadcast. I was

like, I have never I have not seen this yet. This year. They threw all these changes at it. And he goes out there and finishes top five through all the crannies. That's the end. I was like, wow. That was impressive. With all these other championship teams battling with all these air pressure. I'm sure it was like tempting. Like how much do we push it? And they

found a way through like you said, a finish top five with a car that was barely in it the first half. Barely. And so that was just really impressive. And I think he I've spent a little time with Chase and Johnny Klausmann are just hanging out with them. And they have a great rapport together. Chase is such a laid back human being. I don't know if

a lot of people know that. But the way he is on TV. That's pretty much him. Like he's the most laid back guy who then gets in the race car. And just finds a way. And I think he did that in the X-Fan use series. We see him do that in trucks. He's just a very impressive race car driver that gets it done when it matters.

And it doesn't really face him. Like I've not surprised to see him excel in high. I'm not surprised to see him excel in high pressure scenarios because he's just such a calm relaxed person. I have trouble thinking about him bonsai and it off into a corner like he did. Because I don't think of him thinking that way. Like I'm like, oh, he's just so laid back.

What do we care? But he does it. And he does it really well. It's impressive. And it kind of dovetails with his backstory of like, I'm just going to move to Charlotte and just stick on couches until and you know sweep floors for people until I find a ride somehow with the architect that got him to Stewart House racing. And I agree that he's got a

very appealing personality and great back. So be interested in what you can do. You mentioned the 41 and want to get your take on that. And as Carl said afterward, they're going to investigate the data and the radio chatter between Stewart House racing and coal custer and see if anything fishy suspicious was going on there in terms of custer helping his teammate chase brisco. You know,

I don't know. I'm not a driver, of course. But this didn't really strike me as rising to this level of necessary manipulation. Like to me, it doesn't enter into that. It doesn't enter into that category at all. Like I wouldn't put this in the category of what we saw at Richmond in 2013, which of course is the specter that everybody's gonna raise here. DJs, we have

motor mouse was on our production car. Or today and he said the same thing. He doesn't understand how this would be different than super speedway racing on a restart, where two teammates on the front row. One slows up to let the control car fall in ahead, or whatever. Do you think there will be anything that comes out of this NASCAR R1 must have getting what custer

did? It's not possible to nibbily with, you know, saying there's an issue. I had a vibration. And custer did say that. Custer said he thought he had a flat. Flat tire going down, whatever. Yeah. That's gonna happen. And it wasn't like it made any difference anyway. Chase was gonna be in anyway because he had the tiebreaker. So it really did. I think the fans who blew

this out of proportion was like he was blocking the three, you know, playing. And I'm like, all right. Let's just play this last lap for you for a second, where in some point there, you're telling me that the custer was told to block cars. Like, have you driven a race car around the road? Like how hard it is to be like, navigating the road, and then

think I'm gonna block these cars that are coming. But I don't know where the 14 years, because I haven't seen them the whole time. And I have no idea how. And I'm gonna go this headrest around me. Like that's just most ridiculous notion. He probably, if anything, thought if there was some way that that was, you know, instructed to maybe allow the 14 through, he just

slowed up a little bit. Like, which is totally fair. Which is totally fair. And teams say all the time, hey, you know, before a restart, he's probably told Chase is like on the cut line or near it. And he's just don't raise him so hard. Yeah. Basically, like, just don't raise him so hard. Okay. Oh, you got to my side, which he did. All right. Go

ahead. But, you know, it's just teammates race each other like that all the time. So, you know, I don't want to put put it down because it didn't maybe matter. But I think it's only natural if you have teammates that there's gonna be areas where teammates are asked not to race each other as hard. I think that's a very much different than when we're on what

we saw in 2013 or was a 2013, 2012, 2013, 2013 at Richmond, where, you know, there was a concentrated effort. Yeah. And a plan. And, you know, I mean, like, like, to me, the difference there is, that was manipulation. They brought out a yellow that affected everybody else's race. Yes. In this case. Okay. Yeah. Maybe you want to argue that Custer slowed up doing. But for

the most part, it was just Custer and Briscoe were the only affected parties. And it's literally, you could be put as simple as just don't raise your teammate that hard. Right. And that's what he did. Right. So I see it not as you. Nothing's in about it. All right. Well, I don't want to do anything that detracts from Chase Briscoe's sublime performance, which you described as

the ballet of driving a heavy stock car on a road course, which that was very eloquent. A few Parker. And that brings me into my next conversation. I want to have it to you about the next gen on road courses. Interesting conundrum here because this was a stock car that was kind of built as I understand it. And it was NASCAR kind of framed it as

a stock car being built on a sports car platform. And sports cars, of course, are designed to race well on road courses. And it seems as if this car certainly drives well on road courses. But I think the question is, is it racing well enough? And are there things that NASCAR should do to make this car race better? Obviously, you have experienced a ton of experience

on road courses. You've driven stock cars. You're driven sports cars. What do you make of the next gen on road courses in its first year this year and does NASCAR need to do things to make them race better? I think it's been disciplined. I'm just going to be honest. I don't know why it's been fairly disappointing to watch go around a road course as much as

like I was very excited for this car. And potential on road courses knowing that it still kept some of the characteristics of a stock car. It's really heavy. It's 3,400 plus pounds, 3,600 or so with the driver. Like, this is a heavy race car. You don't run into the A-Warel. That is unique to NASCAR and NASCAR only. It still has a lot of power. And you

the wheel. They're doing things in there. It just seems like it has trouble creating a discrepancy in speed amongst cars around itself. And what I mean by that is like, if we look at the Xfin E car, which is essentially the old car, it's like a water buffalo in a China shop. It's like, it's a subscriber dance. Like, they just are not designed to go around

road courses. They don't do anything well. And in that, there's a lot of area for different cars and drivers to make speed in areas versus struggle in other areas. If that makes sense. And like, there can be big discrepancies about how you can put the power down or how well breaks or how much speed you can roll to the center. It just seems like one, you

have the incredible talent level of the Cups series, which is, you know, the highest there is. That's amongst drivers and teams. Maybe they're set up really well. But it just seems like there is a, for every reason, there's a point where everyone's kind of running at a very similar speed. And I know Chase has kind of lutes this. And I just think that is perplexing because,

you know, I know the other car had a lot of differences from team to team. But it just seems like this is interesting compared to what we see in, you know, with the car like this design in GT3 racing around the world, right? Where they have ABS. And they have traction control. So there should be very little differences. And they have BOP and they can run

super close together. You know, and make passes and have discrepancies in speed. You have the super cars in Australia, which is a pretty similar design to this car, especially their new one coming online. And they can run really close together and have a lot of discrepancies in speed. So I just, I, I'm a little confused right now. I'm trying to figure it out. I'm talking to

people, trying to be like, what do we think has to be done here? Right? Still a NASCAR stock car. It's still really heavy. It seems really hard to drive. Why do we get to points where people are saying it's hard to pass? Right? Like on a road course. That's what I'm struggling with. And so I don't know if I really have an answer here. I think,

you know, whatever the answer is, I think could be a similar answer to the short tracks. Right? I think the problem we're seeing racing product wise is consistent at the short tracks and the road courses. And I think the issue has got to be similar because I see the same thing where it's just like a stagnation amongst the field, amongst speed. And that just is very

confusing to me for all the reasons I listed that NASCAR stock cars are hard to drive because they're big and heavy and, you know, those sorts of things. So, you know, it is hard to drive. So I don't understand why we're all running the same speed. Yeah. Yeah. No, it makes a ton of sense. And it seems like, as you said, like there should be more

discrepancies in speed there that should allow for more commers and goers. Yeah. And that's the term. I mean, and NASCAR obviously has battled this problem, unfortunately, a lot before, you know, mile and a half racing. For years, it was like everybody stuck in the same spot. And I just spread out, they go single file and then no one can game position because everybody is running the

same speed. And it seems as if what we hear when that crops up in the past is, well, maybe if we can figure out how to get good new design tires that fall off more, that seems to work sometimes to solve those problems. Is that something that would be effective here? I mean, it already seemed like as we saw with Bell and Brisco, there is a

big difference in tire wear. Right? America. And we can't have a ton of tire wear. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a ton of fall off. So I don't think that's the other thing. There's a lot of fall. And you watch, you know, I watch those on boards and coming off of turn four and onto the turn eight, onto the banking. I mean, they're spinning the rear

tires and they're struggling to get the power down. That's sort of thing. It's just like, okay, that should equal passing. Right. Where one person is doing that better than the other person, but it doesn't. Yeah. And they they end up all running. And I'm just like, okay, what am I missing here? Like everything I know should be right here. It could be simply arrow. You know,

it could be the rear body arrow is not working the way we hoped or, you know, something along those lines or, you know, there's a very popular consensus out there. It's like just give it a thousand horsepower and it'll fix itself. Right. Like, I know I say that facetiously sometimes. And I know fans, it's an easy, you know, you want a ton of engagement and likes

on Twitter. Just put a thousand horsepower fixes everything. And like, I've been guilty of that. And I do agree. Like as a race car driver, just give me a thousand horsepower. I'll figure it out. Right. Like that's that's going to be awesome. Is that all? It's all the things that go into that and with engines. I don't know. But it's like, I don't even know if

that's the fix. Like if you just gave these things a thousand horsepower, does that just to instantly create that wheel spin and issue? I don't I don't know. But just to correct some conventional wisdom that was out there, it's not because these cars drive too well or have too much grip. I think that's just I thought that I don't I just don't see that. I don't

see that. You know, I drove one at Gateway, which involved hard breaking the turn one. And I mean, the breaking could be some of it that's like, it's still heavy car. They're hard to lock breaks. I mean, that's one thing. You know, when I when this car came online this year, I think there was a lot of people that were like, oh, the breaking zones will

be way shorter. It's sort of thing. They are some places. Some places. I'm like, these are exactly the same length, which is wild, right? But it's just because it's a big heavy car. Right. I want to get to a round of eight preview. But before we go there, obviously, there was a lot of talk about NASCAR financials in the news this past week with some representatives

of teams and the race team Alliance coming out and saying that they were pretty far apart with NASCAR in terms of their share of the pie with TV rights negotiations set to begin and a new deal coming in 2025. So with that is the backdrop, Parker news today from Formula One. I'm just going to go to the story we have on NBC sports.com where Formula One

team Red Bull, which won the championship last year, was ruled to have breached F1 budget regulations last season was guilty of minor overspending according to the FIA, which of course is the sanctioning body for F1. And now we will see what the FIA does in terms of punishment for Red Bull. What do you make of all that? Because I think there's probably a lot of people

in NASCAR who are curious about how FIA F1 will rule here involving their championship team going over the limit when they put all this effort into like, how do we keep our financials? How do we get our arms around it and put budget caps in and like that? And obviously that's an ongoing discussion for NASCAR in the future as well. Well, you hit the nail in

the head that a lot of people are watching this. I don't think it's just NASCAR. I don't think there's, I don't think there's a racing series in the world right now that isn't intensely watching this scenario in this situation because this has been discussed for years amongst all race and series. I believe NASCAR has possibly been the most vocal about trying to institute some sort of

budget cap or system because of it being the largest, how large the budgets are. But there's been a common consensus, I think, for years that no one's quite sure how to do that. And the reason being is that they view one race teams can be funded in so many different facets and ways. And with sponsorship and where that sponsor comes from. And if there's B2B deals

and you have the OEM and how they fit into things, it's just very murky. And then because of that, I think there's a consensus that the accountants and the lawyers will be making more money than we'd ever be able to save. Right? Because you're just going to pay these firms, they're going to be successful in creating more parity amongst the field, at least closing the gap

slightly. And from what we see in the media, team principals talking about the financial situation amongst full one teams being better than it was a couple years ago. Obviously they've had a big rise in popularity, which has helped their sponsorship. So who knows what side is helping? What? But what you alluded to, which is now that we know two teams went over, how does the FIA

respond to this? What are the ramifications for going over? What do you deem to be a large group? A amount that going over, what are you deem to be minor? I know they say minors within 5%. But within that, you know, with 1% of penalty is 2% and another penalty is 3, up to 5% being some sort of massive penalty. And so I just think everyone's

watching this because they're the first to do it and how they sort through it is going to be really, really interesting to watch. And so I did some things on social media about this last week. And I had some fans being like, why should I care? And I was like, well, let me tell you why I should care. Do you watch any other former racing? So

I think you do because you follow me, which means I only talk about motorsports. I definitely don't talk about any other sports. So you like racing, you like motorsports. This is really key for all the motorsports to figure out how we're going to keep doing this thing of racing cars and making it financially viable without just running out of money eventually, not doing the same. I

mean, F1 is the big dog. They are the number one racing series in the world. And I should have said this at the outset, just to give people some context. The budget cap last year was 145 million. And the reports for speculating that Red Bull was about 5% over it. That would be around 7 million. And this year, the budget cap went to 140 million. Next

year, it drops to 3, 5 million. And to add on to that, Ferrari came out last week in some political posturing as they, the rumors were persisting that, you know, there was two teams over and one was Red Bull. They said that they believed, you know, that 5% could be worth half a second per lap over a season. That amount of spend. That's significant. But that's

significant. You never, in Formula One, never quite trust what you read. Always sleep with a great salt. Yeah, it's cut through. They were trying to achieve with that. And I will just stand by saying the FIA said in a statement that they are currently determining the appropriate course of action to be taken with respect to Aston Martin and Red Bull. The two teams that went over.

But reporting in this AP story and other stories were that it's highly unlikely that Max Verstappen will lose his 2021 championship. What story about you? Back to NASCAR. We'll wrap up. We'll wrap up by looking round of eight. So we've got Las Vegas, Homestead, Martinsville, Denny Hamlin said all of these tracks are P1 for him. I think DJ said earlier, Dale Jarrett said that if they

could have laid out a round of eight, and Denny Hamlin would have choice of tracks, these would probably be like three of the four tracks he would have taken. Is he the favorite? Chase Elliott goes in with a big point, Liam. Does it look like those two guys? And then who are the other two guys that might join them? How do you size up round of

eight? So I had Denny and Chase in my mind. I had my championship four and Blaney in there. So I'm pretty optimistic right now. The only one that didn't, my fourth was Kevin Harvick. He didn't make it here. Yeah, I don't know if. Yeah, he's kind of missed out on that one. My four is still a lot by the way. Just to toot my own horn

here because I caught a lot of grief for this. My four are Hamlin, Elliott, Legano, and William Byron. Wow. Drew a lot of derision when I made that prediction right here on August 29th or whenever that was. I also chose William Byron to win it yesterday. Oh, did you? Okay. No, I didn't do well. I still feel like he's going to win back to your initial

point about Denny Hamlin. I do believe that. And I love to make the joke that it's Denny Hamlin's year until it isn't right. So he's always the favorite. Same for me. I'm always going to put in the championship for until he wins the champion. Because he's always his year. Yeah. I know. I just the year he wins the championship. I know you know, he said on

the Dail Junior download that when he win his last race. I'm pretty worried if he wins the championship. We just say goodbye because I mean, how does he ever top that? I don't know. But I'm just kidding. But the. That team, Chris Gapart, to me is one of the most intelligent people in all of American motor sports. You know, every time I talk to that guy,

I learned seven things plus three or four things. I don't know how to comprehend at least without taking some time to go sit down quietly and think about them in this shape of the universe. But the. That plus his, you know, work ethic and just ability to rise up in really high pressure packed moments. I just think that that that 11 team is such a core

unit that's just been so well oiled, you know, if they. There's only something doesn't bite them in speeding penalties. They have to be a favorite. And you then look at the tracks. His history. Those tracks, especially Martinsville. And I feel very confident. They have been a part of the championship for. And if he does, I without it, out would put him very high odds of being

coming to your champion. I mean, fourth straight year, he'd be in the championship for us. I believe some point he's going to win it. Like you said, if he makes that might have come on just to do a special episode on Gabe Hardware. I think he's like the intellectuals race or like no one combines like cerebral with true like short track racer mentality more than that

guy. I'm telling someone. I was telling someone who's not in racing about him. And I say he's the type of guy that I wouldn't be surprised if he was the CFO of Apple one day. Yeah. Running a print team principle, the Formula One team or crew chief of an ask car. Like he's just one of those high performance individuals that every time you speak to him,

you're like, this guy just knows way more than me. I get it. Yep. Well said, you know way more than me about an ask car, which is why I always appreciate you coming on the podcast. Parker, thanks for being here. Appreciate. Thanks for having me on. This has been fun. We appreciate Parker Kligerman for joining us on the NASCAR NBC podcast. Thanks to producer Aaron Feldstein

and Motorsports manager Emily Conboy for coordinating Parker's appearance. The NASCAR Cup series heads do Las Vegas motor speedway this weekend coverage gets a lot of money. It started Sunday at 1 p.m. Eastern on NBC. Check out NBC sports.com slash NASCAR for detailed schedules, start times and coverage as always. And every Thursday at 10 p.m. Eastern on USA Network, it's the new Docu series race for the

championship. This is the inside look at the 2022 NASCAR Cup series season. In the world of NASCAR every driver has their story. The new Docu series race for the championship will give you an awesome success. Thanks for listening to the NASCAR NBC podcast. Thank you.