Richmond: A "different" Kevin Harvick wins again; Denny Hamlin's pit crew woes; strategy gambles and disappointments; Watkins Glen preview

Hi, welcome to the NASCAR NBC podcast. I'm your host Nate Ryan here with NASCAR on NBC analyst. Steve Littart, we're talking on the Monday after Richmond raceway and Steve if you didn't think that Kevin Harvick was a legitimate playoff contender, you certainly do by now after 65 races without a win. He is now one two consecutive races starting wonder he's ever going to lose again in

the Cup Series at this point. So let's start there. Like I know that you've talked about Harvick before as a former crew chief that he's one of those guys like Kyle Busch who you've said I think that you'd love to crew chief a guy like this because he's so mentally tough. He's so focused. Only one thing matters to guys like Harvick and Kyle Busch and that's

winning in the out of presumed that's why he's still so competitive at age 46. Yeah, I mean, so I was I'm still shocked that they're winning at Michigan. You know, it took a lot of things to happen in a small period of time to give them the track position, but then you know, that's only half the story. The other half is that closed the deal when

it was in front of them and closed the deal in an impressive manner. Not as shocked about Richmond. You know, if we go back to the spring, he pushed Danny Hamlin every corner of the entire last run that Danny had on tires. He was a car length behind him from start to finish of that pit strategy call and that run to the finish. So I don't

think we're shocked. The Fords have been good anywhere. You use the brakes. Good anywhere. It's not a momentum track. Richmond has definitely considered that and the Fords across the board were good. Blaney was decent. Logonel good at times. All the SHR cars were good. The 14 with another head scratching fire in the rocker box that kind of eliminated them. But the 10, you know, a different

race with a bunch more yellows. Maybe the 10 had a chance to get there because he drove green flag from 30th to like inside the top 10. So yeah, not shocked at his speed at Richmond, but you know, he's going to be dangerous. You know, what this format is allowed is a 46 year old driver with children. It's a long year from February to November. And

I think if they're sitting in race cars that can win, they know it and you get a superstar's attention like Kevin Harvick's when you're sitting in cars that can't win. He still brings this full effort. But I think he's learned to race with his son and enjoy his family and be there when it matters and show up every Sunday and give your best effort. But let

those guys continue to work on the car, be a part of the process and be ready that when the car is winning capable like he had in Michigan, he shut the door on it quickly and made it happen. And now we've seen two weeks in a row. So this is like you said, he really has recovered. He got some playoff points. He's going to be at

least a contender. I don't have him going much farther than maybe the eighth round of eight. But it wouldn't shock me if he did. If I had to handicap it, I'd say round of eight because I think they have that pace. I just the last two weeks have been more important for Kevin Harvick than they have for a lot of guys that are already in the

meetings at Stewart Hoss Racing, we don't see the reports from the engineers about how the speed is picking up. This caught us a little bit off guard, but they've gotten better, but maybe they're not world leaders yet. So Richmond did not catch me off guard at all. Michigan completely did. Yeah, I just didn't see. You know, but here's the thing. Michigan completely did, but he's still

won with about the sixth bass car. Like, I don't think we were wrong in our handicap of their speed. At lap 156, he was running sixth. And the next three laps, one trackhouse car and one Joe Gibbs racing car wrecks. The other trackhouse car gets caught a lap down. The other Joe Gibbs racing car has a penalty on pit road. Yeah. All he has left to

beat is Bubble Wallace, which was a, you know, very tough car to beat. And that's my point is he had some good luck, but good luck is only half of it. He still had that competitive desire, that talent behind the wheel on a fast enough race car to win. Now, Richmond, that was more Kevin Harvick Rodney, shoulders. Now I will say if the 11 could just

somehow get tires on without a penalty, I still think Kevin Harvick runs second again. Yeah. And we're going to get to that. This is definitely the next thing I want to touch. Somehow before we can. Well, we could be talking about a two race winning streak for Danny Hamlin. I want to talk to you about that next, but first just to put a period on Harvick

and you mentioned, shoulders. Harvick, as we sit here at this NASCAR America set right here, was a guest with us last week on NASCAR America motormots. Great interview. I thought, especially because of his rapport with you, he really liked kind of reminiscing about how much NASCAR has changed over the last two decades. But yet, he still again is successful in his mid 40s. And again, I

think it's, you know, you talked about he's got two kids now, but he seems as focused as ever. And I'm sure that in some ways he's a hard guy to crutchy for because he's very demanding, but in some ways he's probably easy because there's no BS, right? Like, it's just like all I got to worry about is just making the car fast. But Jeff Burton, I

talked about this before his win at Michigan weeks ago, we talked about this. Something is different because in years past, you have to go way back because he has one for so long with Rodney. If you go back to his RCR days, when things were not where they needed to be, he was very vocal, almost whiny, almost rude, almost intolerable. He was very critical of his

team, his crew chiefs, Richard Chudish Racing, the engines, whatever it was, whatever was in his crosshairs, he hit with a ton of bricks. So either a, he's aged and changed, which I'm not sure is the case because he seems like the same Kevin Harvick or b, he doesn't think he has to be like that in the public. So something at SHR because remember, he's really never

had a downspel at SHR. This is first and in 65 weeks, a couple times at the pit stops, never at the team, never at the organization, never at Zippadelli or never that I can recall. So something, whether it's a relationship with Tony, whether it's without a doubt being the A drive in the organization, whether it's way through, I don't know what it is. I really don't,

but something is made it where he didn't have to air his grievances publicly. Being a dad, didn't think how I was doing. But I don't, I think it's a little bit Kevin, 80, 20, 70, 30, maybe 30% is Kevin being a dad and learning and maturing and all that. But I think the other parts, the other side, I think it's the group around him. He doesn't

think he has to do it because I believe even as a dad, if he thought he couldn't get Rodney, children to do it or Zippy to do it or Ford to do it, he would have no problem. And here's why, because if he flipped to the safety of the vehicle, he's the same Kevin Harvick we heard 10 years ago, right? So his delivery hasn't changed. You

see my point? Like, he's not gun shy about speaking out about the need to make sure that the car is safe. And that was the same Kevin Harvick that used to talk about his race team. So that's why I don't think he has changed. He still has the tool to calculate it, conversation with the media to move the needle where he wants to move it. And

that's how we did it at RCR and all of those things. I just feel that this is a major tip of the hat to an organization. That SHR, Ford, Rodney Childers, Greg Zipadelli and all the other decision makers over there, he has so much confidence in he doesn't have to air it publicly. Now Liz and I'm fine, if he shuts the door, slams his foot down

and say, guys, what is the problem? Like, that's great. That's what he should be doing. But I just think that there's something to be said for that. It's really, really, really hard to keep a guy with that much fire, comfortable and confident enough that you are working and doing it for 65 races. Now, not 10, 65. So I don't know. I don't know how they got

here, but it's, man, it's impressive. And you listen, that conversation I have with Kevin and I have, we have a ton of respect for one another. His talent behind the wheel is amazing. 46 years old, his drive, his desire. He is. He's on that short list of drivers that I would love to have had a chance to cruechey for because they're just so good and they're

the way they go about their business. And it was the easiest 20 minutes I think we've ever had discussing. And then he was just happy. You know, happy Harvick's his nickname, I'm going to say when he's happy Harvick, look out. Happy, literally and figuratively. And much like that 20 minute interview, I encourage her to check that out, by the way, on the Motor Sports and NBC

YouTube channel. You can see Kevin Harvick on NASCAR, American Motor Mouth last week talking to Steve and Marty Snyder on myself. He was just like that. After the Richmond victory, obviously in a good place in a good mood. And as he said, not calling out as picker, a driver who certainly could have done that Steve was Denny Hamlin, as you mentioned, the second straight week that

a pit stop really cost the 11 team a win. At Michigan, it was a penalty. This time, it was the team dropped the jack to early, essentially cost him 3 seconds on that final stop at Richmond and that cost him a chance of winning. It comes back to finish 4th. Hamlin kept a brave face about it after where he said, we were top three car all

day and obviously we should have won. Had enough and for that last pit stop. Are you going to ask for changes to the picker or do you have any changes in your schedule? No, they just got to clean it up. They just got to get reps. And the good news is we didn't leave the tire loose there. The world dropped through jack and we didn't have

the tire off yet. So it's good news we didn't go anywhere and I saw the hiccup happening, but it's just a big time all we're racing. I wish the bad pit stops would be early in the race instead of the last stop every week. But it is what it is and we'll just suck it up and go on to the next one. I did everything I

could to drive as hard as I could and really optimized my lap time. I knew that we were on the right strategy. I knew the lap times I was running and Ladian runs was fast enough to win and when we came down that pit stop, I nailed the entry-fit road. I thought I rolled really well. We got the right side done quick and then the left

side we had that mistake. So it just takes all of a sudden knowing that I didn't play a factor really in our finishing with position. We got good enough guys, the five thick blue guys that we got on our team are great athletes and they nailed it. Nine out of ten times today. Just the one had one hiccup. I'm going to ask you Steve. What does

Joe Gibbs racing need to do here to improve execution? Because Danny Hamlin is saying, look, I'm happy with these five guys. These are still the same five guys I would pick if I had to go with the championship race tomorrow. It does seem as if this is a recurring problem for Gibbs and we know they're assembling pick crews for six cars. Does this equation change if

only four of those cars make the playoffs? Is this the case right now? A lot of layers to the sun. Let's start with the final question. The answer is absolutely. Bubble Wall says a new contract. You should feel really good about his tenure at 2311, Martin Tricks Jr.'s returning. I bring those two names up because those are the two names currently on the outside of the

playoffs looking in. So if we started tomorrow, those are the two drivers that I'd be calling up and saying, hey man, just so you know, for the next ten weeks, your pick crews will be five and six. We would take our group that we currently have across six cars and we would put together whatever we feel gives us the best for playoff contending cars. I'm sorry,

but you knew back in February the goals that make the playoffs. You fell short of that goal. We're not unhappy. We're not displeased, but don't call us out for making changes on pit road because we're going to do it for whatever needs to be done. And I think that's okay and people can say it's unfair, but don't confuse fair and equal. Like it's big boy sports.

One organization controls those six pick crews and by you, one of them is a 2311 car. Don't get me wrong. I would be taking from 2X to the 45 if that's how the playoff. One folds and it's unfortunate and 2X will be frustrated as he should be, but I think he understands it. He's been the other way. Now the long story involves Martin Trek's junior. He's

two or three pit stops away from being a three or four time champ. Last year Kyle Larson with a very good car and a very talented driver won a championship by a victorious final pit stop. And I think that was a moment in time that Joe Gibbs racing switched years. And then I went from blocking and tackling and having saw the pit stops to ears pin

back going as fast as you possibly could go every single pit stop because that's what cost to my championship. So fast forward, it used to be Hendrick made a lot of mistakes but had fast pit stops. Now it's kind of moved to Gibbs and I think it's because they are when I watch their pit stops, they are pure timing. At 11 pit stop, the jackman, jacks

the left side, hangs the left retire, takes his left hand and drops the jack. And that is a mistake. He has coached that to have the fastest pit stop. We don't have time to make sure it's okay up there. They have a head start. They start in front of the car. They've gone the back, has to run around the back of the car. They in theory

should be done. The pit stop has gone from a big out route football play that takes 2.5 seconds to develop where the quarterback gets to go to receiver one, receiver two, receiver three and then a check down. That was the pit stop with 5 lug nuts. Now it is a 5 yard slam. It's a snap and a throw before the guys even there. And if the

guy is not there or the ball gets tipped or the timing is wrong, it's an interception and that's just how it is. That's what every pit stop is. It is a pure sprint timing play. So I think that is why you're seeing the inconsistencies and the mistakes. Now listen, a week ago Michigan, I got literally just stepped like, what are you doing? You know the rules,

don't step in pit lane. But the issue this week was just, and I don't know why Denny's response was what it was. I don't know what's happened in the background. Maybe he has the 5 that he's asked for. So be careful what you asked for. If you get the 5 you're going to have to defend him. Maybe that's Denny. Maybe Denny knows it's only 2 weeks

to the playoffs. So my best chance is to just believe in these 5 and let's try to build a little confidence. Like I'm sure he has a reason for his answers. But to go back to your point, if I had 6 pit crews and 4 were in the play, listen. We had a car in the fallout of the race that we swapped pit crews on. So

Chad and I swapped it Texas and like 2000 something or other. 2010. Every team he won his 5th championship, they won the championship with your pit crew the next 2 races. And that was like just climbing on the box and said, hey Chad what's going on? Pit stops were awful. We'll take my guys. He's like you think? I said man they're pretty good. I said you

know I don't know if there's fastest guys, fastest to fastest but they block a tackle. Great man they'll take. You don't care? Nope. Okay do it. So clearly what it took was about a 30 second conversation that happened. That was really a ship Chad and I had. So listen I've done it. I'm sorry. It's you know my favorite quote. This is an inner mural football. I'm

a care man. Don't bring your feelings. My dad taught me a long time ago if you're going to go race leave your feelings at the gate. Check your feelings at the gate. I've heard Dale Jr. say that as well. So if Gibbs comes to Denny Ham one then I guess what the Monday after Daytona says, look we know you love your 5 guys but we've decided

these 5 guys are the best chance. I feel there's a department. I think there's a department there and if it was me the drivers of the crew chiefs would sit down with the pick crew department and I would present my case for what I think is the best going in in the end. I believe the crew chief and the driver have the ability or at least

I don't know how Gibbs runs but I would think they have the ability to say no I'm going to stick with my 5 you know this is the reason but if I'm the pick coach over there I'm presenting that. I'm sitting down and showing how I believe the best 14s can enter the playoffs and maybe they've already done it with Denny. I mean I just don't

know. We don't know. Interesting conversation because now I'm remembering like we had out of Stevens on after Christopher Bell's went at New Hampshire and Stevens did tell us that the crew chiefs don't really have autonomy it gives over the pickers like you said that's a separate department in Gibbs and that department assigns the teams their pickers so the drivers and crew chiefs have sway have some

influence but it's not like when you were a crew chief probably Hendrick and you were kind of king of the mountain said if I want these 5 guys I'm getting them it's a little bit different. And that's kind of I don't know if that's just a Gibbs thing anymore I think you know as technology increases in the crew chiefs go from a tire report to a

tire and a tire and a strategy and a this and that and it like something has to come off their plate I mean the guys are going to burn themselves out if not so pick crews as an entire department you could kind of remove because in theory you would think a group that focused that and solely on that would do a better job of managing talent

now we can ask if that's the right strategy or not but you know it's hard because like you said Denny Hamlin could easily be sitting here with two wins last two weeks. I think it Michigan I'm willing to say slam dunk no one beats Denny Hamlin on that final restart with the car he had even Kevin Harvick I bet Kevin Harvick would tell us that if

he was sitting here because that was Kevin Harvick at least third in the choose behind bubble walls and Denny Hamlin. Now Richmond I'm not going to pretend that he was in front of Bell and he could have run him however down Harvick's pretty good maybe he was racing out of his mirror maybe it was only going as hard as he needed to go you know we

don't know how that would have went but I've heard Denny's quote saying he felt like he really had a chance to win that race the math says he had a really good chance to win that race the fans got robbed of what I think would have been a great duel whether it was with 20 to go or 10 to go at some point Harvick was going

to have to get passed by Hamlin under green that's the past we were all waiting to see and it never came so we kind of all got robbed because of that bad pit stop. Yeah and Adam Stevens also made a really good call to get Christopher Bill back in contention. This was a strategy race and I want to talk to you about that a little bit

but one thing that I talked to you about all the time is Kruchef moves and this is I think a great example of how to explain the risk versus reward decisions that Kruchef make so the end of stage two Christopher Bill is a lap down and he's got 50 plus laps on his tires since the last stop he fell a lap down because he had a

penalty in the pits and stage two ends and Adam Stevens says I'm going to take a gamble and take the wave around get back on the lead lap to start the final stage with tires that have more than 50 laps on him which means at Richmond probably 10 15 laps of green before he's probably going to go a lap down with that much where he chances

it they get a caution pretty much on the restart when Ross Chastain hits Kyle Busch and Truex and Christopher Bill waves back around on the lead lap and is in contention the rest of the wave finishes second almost beats Harvick wins the race so the 20 took the wave around but these cars also were a lap down and also like the 20 had a win the

24 of William Byron the 48 of Alex Bowman 99 of Daniel Suarez the two of Austin Cindrick the eight of Tyler Reddick what do you make of that as a former Kruchef that Adam Stevens was the only guy who took the risk and said you know what I've got a win I'm in the playoffs let's gamble and see if I can get my guy back on

the lead lap and back in contention here so why did Adam Stevens make that decision in the spring race there was two organic yellows they both came after the green flag of stage three if you go but the last year I'm like I can bore you with the stats you know that's what I do I study the races previous so it didn't shock me he made

that decision and the numbers would say you mentioned the risk the risk is clear I mean he's going to lose a couple apps if it goes bad I was shocked more didn't try that I was shocked more guys didn't try to only stop once in either stage I was shocked that there was no quote alternate strategy I just you know if everybody follows everybody you're gonna

run where you're running or worse if you're a 15th place car and the first 14 cars put on the green you're either telling me that you don't think you should run better so you're gonna put on the green it just run 15th which is okay for some I say that because some guys say they're not good at rich men say they're having a bad day they're

like man if we could just run 15th we're gonna get out of here that's okay like that's really okay because you can't you know football's offense can't be four quarters of hell marries like you can't that's not how it is but the cars you listed I am shocked that no more of them gave that a run gave that a chance shock the 47 was the only

one that tried to do the second stage on one stop I am very disappointed with the lack of creativity on pit road just I am let's like there was a group you want to talk about first you think this is a bad call there's a group of guys who were running in the last five positions on the lead lap and when the leaders came in the

middle of stage two for the first time they followed them in to get laughed what in the heck are you doing there's a gap at the math of the math you are got you're a lap down just stay out in around 20 more laps forbid you get lucky and get a yellow and end up on the lead like like I just think I just amazes me

the lack of creativity from some of these teams I don't think it is ignorance I don't think it is lack of preparation I believe it's distraction I believe the role and the strategy has surpassed what a crew chief can do while worrying about fuel mileage and tire pressure and adjustments and communication and running a pit crew and and and and and and like there's too many

hands it's time to take something off his plate or give the responsibility to somebody else but I believe they are too distracted and too in the forest to see the trees they just can't they have too much going on I say this because I go back and look at all the bad decisions I made and there's a million of them now that I sit up above

the fray with no stress about the speed of a race car I'm like it's so clear it's just so clear up here and and that's why I don't think I'm smarter than these guys I think these are the best crew chiefs in the world I just think I have been fortunate enough to see it from a different perspective and I think that some of these crew

chiefs should discuss remember we have less people to track than ever which means there's more people at home so those people at home are communicating with the people that's just more distraction from the crew chief now when he's sitting there we're seeing he's got stuff on his computer he's like I would love to know because listen I wasn't around for war rooms I what this is

all new to me I would love to know I would love to take a crew chief and say hey man what do you do during the race like really like I'm gonna get a pen and paper out like okay do you do tire pressure yeah okay do you talk to the shot yeah I'd love to like because I bet the influx of communication is probably mind-blowing

too much multitasking in other words and so yeah so they might have the right air pressure and they might run the right fuel mileage and they might put a right cross weight in and they made their absolute wrong decision to come to pit road I'm like did all the other three things matter yeah well and you mentioned the math as well and I did have a

chance to ask Roddy children's about this because I was curious obviously in April there was the strategy that Harvick and Denny Hamlin of Employee they finished one two and they split the final stage into thirds made two stops this time everybody was on the same strategy there and like you said everybody was sort of monkey see monkey do everybody was pitting with a lap of each

other and I asked Roddy shoulders about that after the race and Rodney said you know and all these teams are are good at that stuff right so we look at the practice fall off and man we weren't 20 laps into practice and my engineer back at the shop is tell me on the intercom yep it's gonna be that you know you're gonna have to pit twice

you gonna have to do those kinds of things and it's about five or six seconds faster doing it that way but it ends up being more than that like you know from a math standpoint it shows five or six seconds but he'll tell you on the racetrack when you have those old tires you just end up handicapped you can't do anything you can't get out of

the way you can't do this you can't do that in the five seconds turns into 15 seconds so you know it all comes down to that math and practice and looking at the fall off and it was pretty easy to see all that math and science I guess like is it not only multitasking but are there almost too many people involved in making these decisions it

sounds like what you're saying is maybe there just needs to be one or two people like you're the strategy people you tell me what to do you worry about setting up the car crew chief you handle like that kind of stuff but one guy is just gonna tell you when to pit well so there's predictive software this engineer's working on it but but I have a

disagreement on what makes goods a good strategist I think it's 30% preparation 30% math and science and 30% artistic ability and I think most of Pit Road doesn't agree with my last 30% I think my last 30% is they just don't believe it they just don't believe it's there's any sort of artistic ability and I refuse to believe that drivers aren't robots crew chiefs aren't robots

stats will tell you one out of three pigs will build a house out of brick like I can tell you you can look at all like like you know I just believe that that there is an artistic sense in the race yeah you've been to a lot of races for a guy like you I think it's clearest at the speedways you ever stand there at Taladega

where you know they get lined up single file around the top with like 11 to go and the fans all sit down because they think it's boring and man you sit up because we're like here it comes and we know we are running towards an absolute chaotic finish the scrambles that have to be right versus if it's three wide all the time why that looks cool

on TV there's no energy it's just gonna round like a block of cars and tell it's over somebody hits somebody like it's a very different field that's artistic that's like hey I see this coming you know Indy 500 qualifying this year it took you know someone with some artistic ability to be like we're not running it's 30 mile an hour wins we're just gonna believe in

our science like you got to know where the two go so yes running's right the math says pit twice when no one talks about is if you pit twice and you're around the fifth place car you're gonna be a lap down 20 laps of 140 if someone stays out and doesn't once if the whole field pits there's no negative so my frustration is if you are

an average car why don't you make it harder for the guys in front of you to make that call following the leader makes it a absolute no brainer you know if you're the 10th place car the 7th place car I just stay out and that's what the 47 try to do in that first stage or second stage the first long one you know you're only a

lap down if someone stays on the racetrack but it was I'm telling you my brain exploded it was crazy the whole field pitted under green in two laps it was quite shocking now on the final stage it was a little bit staggered because we had some yellows just like we did in the spring the Gibbs cars basically the 20 the 11 pitted on the yellow so

they had a little bit fresher tires so they just ran to their numbers of division we kind of figure that out after they pitted the first time I thought because a tire count the 11 might not have pitted that last time and just ran it out because thinking it would get a yellow he decided to pit that's a coin flip to be quite honest I think

he could have won with a good pit stop the negative is if the caution comes out I don't think he has new tires to put on so there's a lot of layers to this strategy that we don't talk about on TV because you know because strategy is great it's part of the race but there's human beings we should talk about their teams or performances there's a

lot of storylines that need to be covered this is such a tough race to stay on top of and it was interesting to me that we saw such huge fades by I mean Chastain leads every lap in stage one finishes a lap down LaGano leads over 200 laps looks like he has the best car finishes sixth Larsen was a factor all the way in the final

stage he finishes a lap down why is it so hard for crew chiefs you think to stay on top of Richmond was it something about the temperature this time we get cool down throughout the course of the year cool down a little bit I think later into the year it's obvious to me that the crew chiefs are better to they know what knobs to turn Kevin

Harvey keep in kind of said it even Chris pushers said is like man I would have thought that's left of practice so in the past you built a car together the racetrack most the time you couldn't change it and I think it's because you built in a certain way well now all these cars are kind of generic and and while they are assembled differently and I

think they all know what the hot buttons are raise the front drop the front change this loading whatever it may be they can make good cars bad bad cars good pretty quickly some of these crew chiefs can't which is spectacular for the race man you know I don't know you know I have a lot of answers about strategy and stuff I don't know why the track

went through this big shift I don't know if it was tires sets I don't know if it was okay so most of the time if you don't have a lot of tire fall off you're the loser tight and that's what you adjust but in a place like Richmond are you trying to get better on the new tires the old tires it can't lose her tight middle

verse X you know it was definitely I hadn't seen that many that much variety and performance really I think Chris push your perhaps was the best from start to finish he just was kind of second or third best from start to finish depending on who cycle to the front so I so I don't know why there was such a big variety but I would add that

everybody wants more practice should watch that race again because if you get all those guys an hour the guy that leads the first stage might lead 400 laughs so we don't want that last thought about Richmond obviously two similar races this year Stevie both the April race and this August race played out almost identical just the strategies were a little bit different the way the tires

wore and the way the cautions fell a lot of discussion about if that's the kind of brand of racing people want to see it Richmond Danny Hamlin addressed this afterward they really didn't matter whether you have this at night or day honestly it doesn't really change the racing here these cars are just you know so aerosensitive on the short tracks and we're shifting that it's just

makes it really really difficult to pass it doesn't matter whether stay or night night would be worse today it's not a racetrack problem it's it's just a aerodynamic problem these things just don't turn behind other cars they're they're certainly more aerosensitive than than the previous car we had on the short tracks and you add in shifting um you know what we've had races like this for

a long time or long green flag runs this is this is just Richmond and it's just a different type of racetrack when you go to you know Bristol it's a different type of racing when you go to Daytona it's a different type of racing here it's the battles are within you saw someone close to within four car lengths a liter from I know there's how many

seconds back so it's a it's a purist type of racetrack if you want side by side beaten in bang and this is not your racetrack you know we were talking about this before your feelings on this and short track racing where Richmond sort of fits in you know Bristol Martinsville short track racing in general well I think that too many people think they're smart enough to

change the ingredients of the soup and know it's going to taste exactly like they want and I say that because you want your track racing yes okay Richmond's a short track so four-four miles that's what you ask for what do you want you don't like how they run it you don't like the strategy you don't like the analytics of told drivers not to rack in which

part of it don't you like I watch a lot of short track racing all across the country that's what it looks like watch slinger see how many yellows there were watch the oxard 250 go down to the panhandle of Florida in the springtime and watch what that looks like go down to Nusomurna there was like five or six yellows for the entire speed weeks like what

do you want do you want beating and banging or do you want short track racing because you ask for short track racing that is Richmond that is short track racing that is what you're going to get at you know I what could you do I wouldn't have to stage the same in the two races the next time I went there the first stage would be a

hundred and fifty the last stage would be seventy like oh let's see how smart you are now like like those are small changes I would make yeah I think this a lot of people in the stands felt pretty good in the park a lot a lot of excitement it's awesome pretty passionate fans it's awesome campers outside it's okay that you hate that race but it's okay

it's okay to be like I'm not going to Richmond that's awful I name my guy that in my cup of tea I'm going to do it race good great that's not my man I like road course racing think I'll walk in slin like I know this is hard to believe but it's easy to pick on the negative thirty six weeks it's a long season there's a

long grind it's a lot on the fans it's a lot on the drivers a lot on the things let's talk about the positives once we can deliver you a wide variety of racing in both areas of the country in styles in which you see I think that we've come to this number of five or six road courses probably enough with Atlanta we have about six speedways

probably enough if we want more short track racing I'm not against it I think I add a couple more but don't ask for them having to look like Richmond and they get mad I mean so far this year we've had three short track races by definition let me and Dale junior disagree because Phoenix and New Hampshire are short tracks for me because you run break ducks

so I'll I digress but the spring martensville and the first Richmond and the second Richmond had a lot of similarities so do I think that they could be improved upon I do do I think we should work on the car perhaps yeah maybe tires gearing track treatment I'm not opposed to improving but you know you can't force the drivers to do what you think is the

most entertaining thing you just tell them how many laps to run and what track to run it on here's the tires and I think we as media have the obligation to not introduce every flame of change like sometimes races are just that way people are going to hate me but I was fascinated by both I thought the spring race was a top five race of the

year for me because it was execution and talent at its finest I don't love for why beating and banging and some guy just gets lucky to spit out the other side I you know I don't see a whole I see a lot of daring there but I'm not sure I see as much talent as what I saw with Denny Hamlin a Kevin Harvick chasing a million

Bayern down in traffic in the spring or the talent of Kevin Harvick not slipping a rear tire why trying to run Joe Illagano down and then running just hard enough to beat a coming Christopher Bell to the lot like there's there's some beauty to that now listen I also don't want 36 weeks of that I like the variety so but look it's okay if someone says

they don't like it it's okay that they want to be vocal about it but that doesn't mean we don't have to react and do something different you certainly deserve a lot of credit because you've gotten a lot of plotlets on social media for the way you've explained these strategies and races like this hey listen I need some strategy races they're all just junkyard if they're all

just you know demolition derbies and junkyard fights I don't think I'm gonna have a job right because but on a serious note it it's I think the beauty of NASCAR is we don't want 36 of anything right we really don't I don't even care if it's the best race in the world you even don't want 36 of that like you really have to have variety I

mean everyone has a favorite meal but it doesn't mean you eat it seven days a week what makes it your favorite is because you have it on special occasions or you only have it every once in a while so you look forward to it and you yearn for it and you look and like that we need a little of that NASCAR it's okay it's totally fine

it is time for the motor mouths of the race presented by eBay Motors this is a new feature and which we talked about a notable quote from the race that just happened going back to Kevin Harvick's TV I asked him afterward about the fact that since he has turned 40 he has 29 cup series victories which ranks third all time among cup series drivers by the

way he's just behind Lee Petty and Bobby Allison third among cup series drivers with victories after he turned 40 and also means he's got 60 career victories so almost half of his career cup wins have come since he turned 40 so Nate Ryan NBC sports I have another old guy question but let's call it a perspective question how about that since you talked about perspective and

your opening answer so since you've turned 40 this is your 29th cup series victory which ranks third all time and also means almost half of your career cup wins have come since turning 40 so as someone who tweeted old guys ruled you take some pride in that I do take pride in that I love it you know I think I think you know and for me

you know a lot of the guys that I grew up racing with are you know Dale's up in the booth and Kyle and and Dale Jared are you know down here and you know you've got Boyer in the booth and you know Jeff Sampit road you know after the race I saw Jeff and driving to victory lane so you know a lot of the guys that

I grew up racing with you know they're all retired and doing other things but I get to still see him and it's you know it's those quiet high fives that are a lot of fun and kind of keeping him perspective for me because of the fact that you know you're you're older and supposed to be done and and kind of headed down headed down a path

that is that is you know toward the end but you know I think I've always prided myself in trying to trying to be competitive and do what it takes to be competitive and make the sacrifices that it that it takes to be competitive and but I do enjoy it there's nothing better than winning I don't know how to really put it all into perspective because it's

just not something that I just stop and really ever look at I never really stop and say you know where are all those 60 wins you know it's you know I the first one's easy that today's easy to remember last week's easy to remember but you know if you guys wouldn't have told me that we that the last race that we won was at Bristol I

would have argued with you I told you it was Darlington so I don't I don't really look at the numbers it's always about and maybe this is a fault of mine may but you know I think it's also you know one of the reasons that we progress forward but it's never about what you have done what the numbers look like it's what do we got to

do next week what we what could we've done better last week how do we keep this all in perspective and and so you know it's and maybe it's maybe sometimes I need to just stop and kind of take it all in but I don't know it's it's that it's that I always feel like it's bragging you know when you when you stop and talk about yourself

and and you know I think for for me just I just want to be like I just I like most of the kids in the garage I'd like you know being around the competitors I've got a much better relationship with most everybody in the field the crew chiefs the owners so I like that part and you want them to respect you when when you're done so

you know it's it's hard to I don't know the perspective of what has happened is is really not something that I stop and say you know that was that was pretty cool I thought it was cool that I could put my little girl in my car last week and and we could you know do stuff like that and and so those are the things that I

think are neat right now I guess I'm kind of curious like your reaction to that like how Kevin Harvick sort of compartmentalizes the fact that he's in his 40s and he's having as much success as anybody in history of NASCAR but he's able to just sort of ignore it somehow at the same time is that speak to his greatness in some ways it does if there's

someone out there that I'm forgetting I I'm going to apologize but I think no one had a tougher entry into the couple level than Kevin Harvick right the guy he now trails on the win list by the way is the iron heart so and I mean by that is is I mean it was a moment in the sport that no one was prepared for that that

whatever 20 something years later however far we are pet 22 years 21 years later yeah it is still memorable I mean I remember the day the moment the time the flight home from day to everything about right and he was asked to do the impossible which is hey I need you to take this car that that one of the greatest two has ever done it that

we lost a week ago you just need to go race it and we're going to change the number we're going to change the color but we all still know whose car it is and he did it and he did it in a remarkable fashion I can't even imagine what it was like so I think you know the first year or two had to be a blur

for this young guy so I think the fact that he has been able to take that entry into the sport and now move it into so much success in later years it goes back I wrote down some words as you were talking his fitness is is not in question at all I mean he's unbelievably fit his health his confidence he put glasses on he drives in

glasses you know care what anybody think glasses makes me go faster I wear glasses right like little thing like I know it sounds silly but you and I both know how fragile some of these great athletes are Indy car sports car nasker you've seen it right like they won't admit any weakness to some of those guys glasses would have been a weakness I'm not putting those

on people question that I could see Kevin Harvard puts them on says I'm faster I'm putting them on like he just doesn't care he beats to his own drum so much I love the fact that you know when you start pointing out over 40 some guys will get defensive oh I'm still this good I'm still like instead what does he sit back and says I love

it he just named the who's who of nask car and where they're at and they're retired and the fact that I can still do it is great like I I there's something about harvick that that he's funny right because sometimes he gets under my skin and he drives me absolutely nuts and the other times I'm just so thankful he's around because he makes the sport so

much better but the point is he gets a reaction both ways like he's just he's this captivating character who isn't even a character like he is as authentic as authentic can be I think we all don't even realize how valuable he is one day that's just gonna be a little quiet we're gonna be what happened well Kevin harvick's not here to stir the pot about something

he's not here to push Brad keselowski into a fist fight with Jeff Gordon you know he's not here to jump over Ricky Rudd's hood and ready to fight him at Richmond like his highlight reel is pretty long and impressed so many things that we forget and you're right it all goes back to filling the shoes of an icon Dehornhart 2001 and he's been a Hall of

Fame River since that was the motor mouse of the race presented by eBay Motors at eBay Motors you can be your unpick crew with 120 million parts right at your fingertips get the right parts at the right prices eBay motors.com let's ride all right so we're gonna end with Watkins Glen of course can't wait Watkins Glen we've got Kimmy Rykin in we've got Mike Rock and

Feller we've got Kiviat the Russian F1 veteran a former F1 track will have all these F1 European style drivers and Kimmy Rykin and F1 champion lot happened in this coming weekend on USA listen it's a tip of the hat to NASCAR and what they've done with the car the teams the sport the series the schedule it all goes into this we're gonna be calling a radio

style we're gonna have the bag man back calling the action up the S's which is always fun you know I think Kimmy is gonna be fun to be around he's gonna be a great storyline all I hope at the end of the day is that Kimmy gets out after running about 18th has a great time and and I just hope that people realize how good the

drivers we have are and and I say that I'm guilty you're guilty we're all guilty because we're so close to them I don't think we realize sometimes how remarkable they really are like how great of drivers we really have in NASCAR I know that sound silly and maybe a little over the top but it really is like I was asked this question today where's Kimmy gonna

finish will he run on the top 10 I know no chance for us in the top 10 um not because he's not good enough he is and if he ran five or six races I think he would end up in the top 10 but because I think we all take for granted how good they all are I had a conversation with Mike rock and fellow who's

enrichment um watch the bunch of races back him and Joey hand had this conversation I know Joey as well I've had the same conversation with Joey and Joey he's just you know he's you know this is a guy that won the mall like but you talk about sports cards other than F1 right so he never been F1 but sports cars he's been in all of them

and now we get Kimmy who has done it at the he was a world champion and I I think that when Kimmy gets out he's gonna have a huge smile he's gonna be shocked at how rough and tumbled it gets and I think if you could ever pinpoint him down I think he would tell you how good these stock car drivers are with these big heavy

lumbering stock cars just how talented they are that was very different you know but it's they are very very talented all right well maybe we'll hear that from him 3 p.m. Sunday on USA you can check out NASCAR on NASCAR NBC with Steve Littart Stevie thanks for being here is always always fun we appreciate Steve Littart for joining us on the NASCAR NBC podcast no one

better suited to talk about a strategy race than the tactical maven for NASCAR NBC we are fortunate to have Steve's insight during races and really glad the timing was perfect to have him join us to analyze Richmond on the podcast this week thanks to NBC sports senior associate producer Aaron Feldstein and motor sports manager Emily Conboy for helping line up Steve Littart as our podcast guest

as we mentioned NASCAR NBC will be at Watkins Glen International this weekend and the track truly is living up to its name according to NASCAR PR there will be drivers from seven countries racing in sundays cup series race that will be the most international driver representation in NASCAR history for a race on the premier circuit and you can watch that history on USA network this weekend

coverage of sundays race starts at 2 p.m. Eastern on USA network and Xfindi series coverage Saturday will begin at 2 30 p.m. Eastern also on USA from Watkins Glen check out NBC sports dot com slash NASCAR for detailed schedules start times and coverage as always and if you have any NASCAR NBC podcast feedback you can send to me on Twitter at Nate Ryan is my hand

thanks again for listening to the NASCAR NBC podcast