Atlanta: Joey Loganos "full circle" win and split personality; the spotters are the story; Denny Hamlins fine and appeal, Josh Williams controversy; COTA preview

better option. I'm like, to-ish and change miles away. So it definitely is walkable. I don't know if it's a walk I would do. Yeah, especially with all the construction. Yeah. In South End of Charlotte, it gets a little bit crazy at times. But yes, you just heard Kim Koon has joined us for the NASCAR NBC podcast as we discuss the post Atlanta Motor Speedway edition. Kim,

first of all, thanks for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me. I was like, I jumped on the podcast with you to the last year and think we had a good chat. Yeah. And always down to come in. Always glad to have you. And we're in the studio where we did NASCAR America motor mouths last year. You've hosted that a few times. And that we've moved

out to digital on YouTube channel, the Motorsports and NBC YouTube channel. You can see Kim doing her work there for us. And also will be a pit reporter for us this year on NASCAR NBC. And what else do you have going on this year? I a little bit of the same as last year. So NBC, the second half of the season, and I'll do honestly almost

the entire schedule of NBC. Oh, wow. Yeah. Race for NASCAR. More than last year. Last year, I actually did more than I was originally a plan. It was just great. They threw me on some more than had originally been talked about. And then this year, I had the opportunity to do all of them if I wanted to. But there were there are two weekends where MRN

needs a little help because the series are split. And I think trucks, two different times are at road courses. And the way radio calls, road courses is different than television in most cases. And they need kind of all hands on deck, especially since the series are split in two different locations. So I think it's Richmond weekend and Daytona weekend, where I'll hop back over to MRN

for the weekend. Otherwise, all NBC. And then the first half of the season, MRN, not every weekend, though, just kind of. I could not commit to every single weekend. I don't know how teams are going to be. I'm just going to use the drivers. Yeah, no. So here and there, but a good handful of races with MRN in the first half of the season. Well, that's

great. And that's great that you're also getting work with us because you do a great job. You're always on top of things, both with your reports and with your interviewing, but also good as well that you're getting some time off. Yes. I am very heartily endorsed the notion that if you aren't working on a team, again, like you just said, I totally respect the teams, the

crew chiefs, the drivers, who have to be there every week. But if you don't have to be there every week, right? I think it's good from a mental health perspective to maybe just a time off. Yeah, there's a happy medium. There's definitely the mental health aspect, which I heartily agree with. And then also, I like to be in this kind of sweet spot of not there

every weekend, because I feel like I wear the myself out, but also the teams out, because in my position as a pit reporter, I'm talking to teams and crew chiefs and drivers. And I just feel like if I was there every single weekend knocking on their door, like, what's going on? They would be like, oh my gosh, you're driving me nuts. But on the flip side,

if you're not there enough, you feel like you're rusty and your face isn't seen enough to where they're like, where are you? And they joke, okay, part timer kind of thing. So there's a happy medium in terms of the frequency with which you travel to the track. There definitely is. But that happy medium certainly involves getting some time away from the track, which I did this

past weekend. You did as well. We were just talking about neither of us were at Atlanta motor speedway. So before we get to that, did you have a nice time back in the Florida region? I did. I saw a family, I didn't have that like that. So we did a father daughters trip. I have two sisters. I'm the middle of three girls. And it had been

10 years since we had done an actual father daughter trip. So this was a Christmas gift from my dad. So we went down to Palm Beach, but my mom kind of felt left out. So she tagged along to the, so it ended up being a family trip. So they're all in central Florida. So they drove down, but I flew down to Palm Beach. And it was

nice. So whether it was spectacular, originally thought we thought there was going to be rain in the area all weekend, but as Florida is unpredictable, and it ended up not. So we had what I would consider perfect weather all weekend long. That's good. I saw that they were predicting doom and gloom at sea brewing as well. We just love our sea brewing as well. So we

didn't see my kids too affected. And obviously Atlanta was affected the first day. But thankfully, things worked out Sunday. We saw the win for Joey Ligano last lap pass of Brad Kizlowski. And I just want to start Kim with Ligano mentioned this immediately in his interview afterward. First of all, his first career win in Atlanta in the Cups Series, which is hard to believe. Mind boggling

when they said that. But immediately, Ligano points out. First off, it's so special to win Atlanta for me. So many memories of me and my dad and racing right here on the quarter mile. This is the full circle for us. So many memories. Gritting over there at the Legends car and racing and having a big time and dreaming of going straight at the quarter mile and

going on to the big track. That was always a dream to do it. And the finally win here means so much to me personally. I don't know if you feel this way, but nothing makes me feel older than Joey Ligano. Two time cup champion, who's what? All of I think he's 33 this year. Yeah, maybe talking about like this. 32 or three win in Atlanta Motor

Speedway. Yeah, definitely made me feel old. But then it was a good reminder of how many drivers cut their teeth at Atlanta on the shorter track. And then also the fact that he lived, I believe, in the condos above whatever turn that is for a period of time, definitely felt old. And it was also a good reminder how long Joey has been in the sport for

as young as he is. And it is brought up often, I think, just how early he got his start in cup racing. And the fact that it took this long to race in Atlanta, but then just the trajectory of his entire career. And he's talking about a full circle race at this point. Like to me, that's something that Kevin Harvick, or a Danny Hamlin at this

point in their career, if they were to have a one like that talking about full circle, I don't know that your full circle when you have, I would guess, 10 years still ahead of you in your career, which I would guess is at least 10 years for Joey left racing. So yeah, I got to chuckle out of it too. Yeah, I mean, it's funny, you say

it that way, because I even thought about that perspective. But yeah, he's going to be 33 this year. I mean, he could probably, I mean, what Harvick is 47. 47, you look at Jimmy Johnson, who semi-retired, but back for a little bit for a handful of racists. And he's close to that age, too, 48, 47 around there. So certainly, and then there were past legends that

race into their 50s. So he could make what he wants of it, but he certainly has, I would think, a solid competitive 10 years left in the Cup series. Again, what makes this unique with Joey the Gano is no one has started earlier. Literally, I remember the 2009 Daytona 500, he was the youngest starter in NASCAR history in the biggest race of the year, he was

18 years old. I think there were times early in his career where it certainly didn't seem as if he might not even get a chance of being a champion or being a winner in the Cup series after a few rough early season at Joe Gibbs Racing. But this was another example of just how sublime he is as super speedway racer, his battle with Kizlowski. Two of

the top five super speedway racers in NASCAR and producer Zach Kitanza Reddy sent a really interesting note that he thought that this was another example of how Joey is like the perfect mixture of Kyle Busch's race craft, Ross Chastain's aggression, Jimmy Johnson's kind of brains and speed. Like that Joey's kind of developed into this really just prototypical race car driver in some ways. He's a bit

of a Frankenstein as you pull all those pieces of the different drivers, but he's showing that he deserves to be where he is and the fact that we're talking about, he still could have 10 good competitive years left is attributed to those kind of facets. One of my favorite quotes was in last year's series that you and I did was that with his helmet off, Joey's

a nice guy. He's a nice guy. But when he puts his helmet on, he's a jerk. I said that. You said that and hit me because it's so true. And you don't really think about it because we deal with drivers so frequently and with so much more frequency out of the race car than we do in the race car. I mean, we're not talking to him

on the radio. We're listening to them. And so I don't think of Joey Logano as a jerk by any means. But then you really think about when he puts on the helmet and what he does behind the wheel and he is. He's a bit of a jerk and kind of does what he wants personality. But he has crafted himself into, I don't want to say the

perfect race car driver, but he has all these attributes that we singularly give to other drivers. But he has kind of collected them in this basket for himself and is a great kind of mix of everything. I'm glad you brought this up the jerk side because Kyle Busch called Joey Logano two-faced after I believe is the clash this year. And Logano has this great serious SM

NASCAR share, the segment that he does every week on the morning drive. Logano like, gleefully sort of accepted that and said, yeah, I am two-faced. And that was the point I was trying to make on race for the championship. After track, Joey Logano is a very gregarious personality. He's very personable. Joey Logano on the track, completely different person. Here comes Logano on the high side. Logano

gets into the back. He's shutting him up very track. Logano gets the win. Here comes Logano. When he puts on that helmet, Joey Logano is. He's a bit of a jerk. I'm here getting trouble for sharing this, but I'm really careful. So that was in the first episode where they broke down. Joey Logano's win in the clash last year and kind of went behind the scenes

with him and showed what he was about. And I said off the racetrack, he's one of the best guys. This series, SM NASCAR, shows it. He's really with the media. He's become really polished. I think he's a really good ambassador, a really good spokesman for NASCAR. He does a ton of great work with his charities. He is the guy that he sells himself to be off

the racetrack. He's not just doing charity work to do charity work. He really is invested in it. He really is the family guy that you see when you see this photos. He is that person outside of the car. And if you see that side, you appreciate it because we know there are other drivers who this is a little bit of a jackpot hide. And I guess

it sort of is with the Gano, but it's in a good way. And that that was the point I was trying to make and race for the championship and saying that when he puts on that helmet, he's a jerk. Because I think I've heard Burton or Steve Wittard or maybe Kyle or DJ, I've heard some of our analysts say this and it didn't really dawn on

me until last year. Like how much of a dichotomy there is there with him that there is this other side when he puts the helmet on that he is cutthroat, he is ruthless. So anyway, when that episode ran, it was right before Playoff Media Day last year. And can he come at you for it? I watched that episode and I was like, ooh, I wasn't unhappy

that I got taken out of context during that time. I mean, you and I know how would use work and how they edit things together. And what I said, maybe if people would have heard the whole three minute answer, it would have made more sense. But yeah, of course I was interviewing drivers for Ask Our NBC during Playoff Media Day and Joey sat down and me,

like he said, oh, I've got a bone to pick with you. I mean, he wasn't too happy about it then, but it was funny like this year, like Kyle calls him, Kyle calls him two days since, like, I am good with that now. So I don't know. Yeah, I think if he really thought about it, he would agree. Yeah. Like Joey would agree with that. And

we use the word jerk in the sense that, like a different kind of jerk, more in the sense that he does what he wants, he makes no apologies for the most part. Not jerk in that he's just blatantly taking people out or doing that sort of nature. He just is a jerk because he doesn't what he wants and he's unapologetic about it in the race car.

Right. And another guy who I think can be that way is his former teammate at Team Penske, Brad Kislovsky. So they had this great battle, Kim, for really the last 10 or 15 laps at Atlanta, like both of their drafting lines going back and forth. And it was this interesting dynamic because Kislovsky and Lagana know each other really well. I mean, Joey Lagano went to Team

Penske because Brad Kislovsky essentially vouched for him with Penske management. He got Joey Lagano hired as his teammate for the 2013 season. So Lagano was asked about this after the race. Jordan Bianchi, the athletic, how would you describe that battle with Brad? Like Kat Maus, chess match? Were you anticipating every move he was making because you know him so well and you like, oh, he's gonna

do that and then he did it? I know Brad really well. On and off the racetrack, right? And I know he's gonna do anything to win a race. And rightfully so, right? I wouldn't say we are racing mentality is very different. And that's why, you know, I feel like we get along well, but we also sometimes have clashed on a track every now and again, not

very often, but we both race really, really hard. So, you know, I felt like we were gonna, we're definitely gonna do it out. But when I got to his outside, it was either he was gonna wreck or we were gonna just race and, you know, hopefully he was gonna get the big push on the bottom that was his only hope there. So, it just ultimately ended

up working out fine, but it's fun racing with him. To answer your question, I guess, because you kind of have an idea of what he's thinking a little bit, and also a TJ, right? He's a spotter and he was my spotter for years. I kind of have an idea of what information TJ's feeding him and it all just kind of worked out for us. When you

were watching this, you know, Brad Kislawski and Joey, they got a really well from having covered the models years. What did you make of that? Was that kind of in the back of your mind that like, hey, these guys know each other really well and they're in this chest match to try to win this race? Yeah, and I think if it were any other combination of

Joey plus another driver, Brad plus another driver, maybe we would have seen a different result in that there could have been a big wreck at the end that I think people were kind of on their edge of the seats as it was this kind of give and take, but I think because they race what I would say similarly on super speedways and they're both so good

on super speedways and they know each other kind of in a sense that they can get into each other's minds and can kind of play that chest match. That's why we got such a good finish. I don't know that you have that finish again, if it's Brad and anybody else or if it's Joey and anybody else, it was the fact that it was the two of

them together and they were kind of almost, I don't wanna say in sync, but it was kind of a tit for tat situation in my opinion. Do you think that's why there was all this discussion about how obviously the truck race and certainly the Xfendi race were a bit more of a mess in terms of number of cautions and crashes and especially at the end, I

think everybody thought, oh, last few laps of a super speedway style race at Atlanta, you're gonna see Rex and there was no Rex. Yeah, I think it is a combination of the fact that you saw that in the truck and Xfendi each year point. And then we do go to Taladega and Daytona and we often see that, but again, it's rare that we see two guys

that know each other so well and race so similarly in those situations and have that respect that we don't often get in a position where they can just race it out without causing huge calamity. But people will say what they want about that type of racing but fan showed up in Atlanta. The crowd looked great and whether or not you have a big crash, I don't

think makes or breaks the race. Like some people may have walked away disappointed because they thought there was gonna be a big fan wise. But in my opinion, I was on the edge of my seat thinking that was gonna happen and the fact that it didn't, I was like, that was the wow factor for me. Yeah, you can be as amazed by the fact that there

wasn't a huge pile up. Yeah. And I think that speaks to like how skilled these guys are that I know I saw on social media that and I may have been complicit that there was some criticism in stage two that there was a lot of single foul racing. There was a clearly a period here like at Daytona and Taladega where they were logging laps. Sure. You

know, they were getting in the end. But then I think the end like show like, hey, these guys really are very, very good at what they do because I don't think anybody was taking it easy. No, nobody was taking it easy. And there was a lot of help to you. You have to give credit to Christopher Bell and Cori LaJoy and what they were doing behind

the two leaders. And it certainly could have been a different outcome if they had done anything differently. And so it wasn't just the fact that you had two guys in the front that were our masterminds when it comes to that style racing. You have two guys behind that. I wouldn't call them veterans, but less experienced than Joey Logano and Brad Keslowski. But have been in those

situations before. You look at Cori's race at Atlanta last year where he was in a similar position, not exactly, but towards the front. And then Christopher Bell who is trying to log these good finishes and still prove himself in the Cup series and the fact that they were smart about what they did behind the two leaders too in helping them. I think it just made for

the end of the race that you saw. So two of the best super speedway drivers, as I mentioned, and Brad Keslowski and Joey Logano. But again, two of the best spotters as well with Brad Keslowski having TJ Major as Joey Logano has Coleman Presley, his long time best friend. He says they even if they weren't working together, they pocket on a regular basis. They still live

together. Joey Logano said that Coleman's amazing. He's the best spotter on a roof by a long shot. He's giving me great information the whole time to be able to make the right moves on the racetrack. He understands it so well. That on top of the cardup hall gave me just a really special race team to be able to maximize what we had here today. Fast car,

great team. I know Kim, you probably spent a lot of time listening to team radios. And your job is a pit reporter. So what's it like hearing the spotter information going back and forth with the driver at a race like this when you have two guys who are so good and have spotters, TJ Majors, and Coleman Presley. I don't want to say that they're like chatterboxes,

but they give a lot of information. There's two things I think is a, I don't know how the spotters do it, and then b, I don't know how the drivers do it. So a, the rhythm and the amount of information with which spotters of that caliber are giving their drivers information is wild to me. And it has to come naturally to them or else I don't

know how you study for something like that. And you get better, obviously, over the years, but they're phenomenal at what they do, a top-the-roof, and are able to see things in motion. And it's not only knowing your driver, but it's knowing the field and predicting in a sense, being familiar enough with other drivers to know where they're going to go and what's going to happen. So

I think that's what makes a good spotter, too, is not just knowing your driver, but knowing the field and being situationally aware. But then the other thing that I'm always impressed of is that a driver can sit and be in the middle of a race, in a pack especially, doing all the things they're doing to race the car, and then also taking in that information, while

also taking in all of them information that they're seeing and feeling as a driver. I honestly always am flabbergasted when I listen to a radio at a super speedway, like just the choreography of it, and how the driver is processing everything, but then how the spotter is giving them that information. It just may be think about when you talk about processing information, not just for the

driver and spotter, but for you as pit reporter, how do you do it when you're at a Daytona or a Tau Dega, and I have to do on air reports, but also have to try to multitask and listen to everything. Yeah, I mean, it is similar to that, listening to everything that's being said. And you're scanning, depending on the situation, at the end of a race,

I'll probably usually typically lock into one driver. If I have a driver that's up front versus trying to scan as much when it's in the closing laps, now everything gets thrown out the window. If your section of pit road, all four of the guys are up front and then you're just kind of trying to juggle. But it is hard, but you're looking for the things that

are sellable and make for a good story. So I don't want to say all the information the spotter is giving is throw away information, because it's not. The driver is using that. It's very crucial to the driver. But in terms of pushing the story further along for the viewer or the listener, a lot of the stuff that the spotter is saying in a sense is throw

away information on a super speedway. Now, you do hear things in terms of spotters coaching drivers and certain things that they say that you do relay to your producer or the broadcast team to say, oh, this is a really good piece of information that would make the story better. But I would say, I don't know what the percentage is. There's probably, it's probably 50, 50, or

60, 40, like 60% of the information is not going to be helpful to driving the story forward. 40% of it is in terms of what the spotter is saying, or a lot of times it's not even what the spotter is saying to the driver, but the spotter will talk to the crew chief, too. And their conversation sometimes is more valuable than the spotter to the driver.

So you're just listening to hear, like, if there's something specific or concrete that stands out or maybe if you've been talking about the competition, maybe it's as much of a problem. Yeah, specifically on a super speedway, there's much less usable information that's coming from a spotter for the broadcast on a super speedway. In my personal opinion, then there is at other racetracks where you have to

be a little more nitpicky and a little more thorough in combing through what the spotter is saying to find those good nuggets because it's just so, it's like a stream of consciousness. The good spotters at super speedways that do a good job, it just is literally a stream of consciousness. It's second nature for them. So they're just, they're rarely quiet. So you really have to go

through with a fine tooth comb to figure out what's pertinent information to driving the story forward for the viewer listener. Now, that's not to say that, again, that information's not good for the driver. They need to know that stuff, but, you know, do they need to know every door bumper clear? You hear or every like two back there, but there is useful information if it is

a spotter that is very skilled, that almost will feed you what's gonna happen next sort of thing, or if they're telling the driver, you know, so and so is behind you, and I noticed, earlier in the race, they did this or that. That's more of the kind of information that you would kind of pull from that to share with the viewer listener. Really fascinating window in

that process and you and all the other pit reporters do a really good job with like being discriminating about what you tell us or what you think is most important, what you're most selective about. Tough job for you, tough job for them and the drivers, and like I don't want to disparage anyone here and you just said door bumper clear and that made me think about

like, there are a lot of spotters out here who have voices and have podcasts, so hopefully they won't take any offense to that. What I'm about to say. So, we got a pretty good job. Tyler is still clear, staying up there inside. Tyler now, one back on the bottom. One bottom, Tyler's gonna pull him back. He's still gonna score. Tyler will have to help our Nexus

still. Find their push on the bottom and top here. Show it to the other bottom, bottom, bottom, bottom, bottom, bottom, bottom, bottom, bottom, bottom first, bottom first, then I'll find exit. One back, one and a half top, top, Tyler here. As I was watching the race yesterday, I came out thinking about on one hand, it's really cool to hear the driver's spotter communication, but on the

other hand, I almost feel like sometimes that if you're a fan, you're like rooting for like air traffic controllers. Yeah. In some way, you are. Like because they have so much influence now in terms of the moves the drivers are making. Yeah, I would absolutely agree. They have become central, especially at certain race tracks to the dynamic of the race and how it plays out. And

I don't wanna say a race can be one or lost by a spotter, but they certainly have a large stake in success of a team and driver at a race track like an Atlanta, a Daytona, a Telodega. There's handful of other ones that don't fall into the Super Speedway category that you could probably put in that kind of bucket too, but certainly at Super Speedway Racing,

it helps drive that narrative when the driver gets out and says how crucial his spotter is and says I couldn't have done this without my spotter and he's so good and he's good at reading the traffic. And so I think the driver and how complimentary or possibly not, he is of his spotter also helps drive the narrative of spotters are so crucial at this style of

racing. Which reinforces NASCAR as a team sport if you're wanting to sell that. Yeah, absolutely. That really reinforces that clearly. Yeah, that's a good point. So we've talked a lot about what guys were saying on radios. There was a lot of talk about what guys were saying in general this past weekend NASCAR is start with Denny Hamlin, who has his own podcast now, Actions Detrimental, which

could have been more appropriately named this past week when he gets fined and loses points for admitting on his podcast last week that he intentionally wrecked Ross Justain on the final lap at Phoenix. So let's just start Kim with, I know where I stand on this. I suspect I know where you stand on this. Should NASCAR ever find someone for something they say short of like

inciting violence? Yeah. Or something like that. Should anybody ever be fine for something they say? I don't think it's black and white. Yes. Which people aren't probably gonna like that answer. There's a lot of gray area. You can't find people for everything they say just because you don't like it. In this instance, in particular, you can find somebody for something they said because they were directly

talking about intent and what happened during competition. So I think this was a fair fine. This to me was very black and white. There was no gray area. Denny Hamlin came out after the race, after we saw that incident and said, I was gonna take Ross with me. I did that essentially on purpose, which changed the outcome of the race. And may I say also changed

my fantasy. You and I were in this head to head battle for the NASCAR and on NBC broadcasters, NASCAR fantasy live. And I had both Denny Hamlin and Ross testing in my lineup for the race. And they were running top 10. They were running top 10 pretty much all day and were at that threshold in the closing lap. And then I see the, they put the

head shots of the drivers as they pass the start finish line. And I, they go through the top 10. I'm like, where is Denny? And where is Ross? What did I miss? What happened? So if NASCAR wasn't gonna find Denny, I was gonna find him today. Hey man, you completely messed up my fantasy score that week. But yeah, back to your point though, I have way

sidetracked it just because I had personal stake in the fact that Denny took out Ross in the closing lap of Phoenix. But it's a, it's very black and white in this case. I don't think overall it's a black and white thing where based on what a driver says, you can or can't say it is finable. There's a lot of gray area. This was not one of

the gray areas. Yeah. And I joke about it, but there, I think NASCAR drivers know where the line is and what they can say. Like I said, there's a lot of exciting violence, but obviously we've seen in the Kyle Larson incident, unfortunately, a couple of years ago, there's certainly things you cannot say. You cannot say. You should not say in public. Obviously, yeah, anything like racist

or discriminatory, like NASCAR has reacted in those ways as well. But I think you're right. This is not the first time they've said, we're gonna find a guy for admitting that he intentionally spun somebody. It certainly happened multiple times before, but maybe Denny Hamlin knew that you had him fantasy line up because he initially said, I accept the decision, I'm not gonna appeal, but then three

days ago, Kim, he says, after most consideration, I've decided I will appeal the decision by NASCAR to penalize me, what happened was common hard racing that happens each and every weekend. There also was no manipulation of the race, more action, step to middle and sport. Now that was his tweet. He also said on the Fox pre-ratio. What changed your mind through the course of the week?

You'd first said, I'm not gonna appeal it, come back a couple of days later, so I'm going after it. Yeah, I mean, I don't, listen, I don't wanna get into my defense here because it gives the prosecution time to plan for it, but I think that I have all a very legitimate case in this. Obviously, one of them being the word intent was taken out of

the rule book, so what does that matter what I say? Obviously, he's appealing it. Yeah. What do you feel like his chances are? I think his chances are slim. He came out on his podcast and he said there was intention, he essentially took Ross out, he was taking him with him. We should clarify though, yes, Denny's being fine for what he said, but that's also not

the reason he's being fined if that makes sense. The reason is because he manipulated competition. It just happened that he admitted to the manipulation, so I don't think he went through appeal. When you have it literally recorded that the driver came out and said he did it on purpose, I don't know what kind of case you have. And to your point in terms of the manipulation

side of things, like I think the way NASCAR has looked at this and what Elton Sawyer and others have said is that he's affecting other people. Yes. And if you listen to Denny's peers, I think it was Harvard who said this past weekend, well, it's getting at the point now where they have their thing. It affects how the right, it didn't in this instance, Phoenix, but

it could affect other people who might have called. Yeah, the field, yeah. Yeah, well, like Bubble Wallace, when he wrecked Kyle Larson and it took out Christopher Bell and that was during the playoffs. So it certainly you have to consider the fact that they're depending on the track, 35 plus other drivers on the field that can be impacted by your decision. So I don't think he

went through appeal. We'll see, certainly if Denny Hammond gets penalized for freedom of expression, he would probably argue with another freedom of expression that was more about action speaking louder than words, I think, in the Saturday X-Fifty race, where Josh Williams is ordered to the garage by NASCAR and he decides to accept this directive by parking his car at the start finish line on the front

stretch at Lamar Speedway and then walking to the pits, then called to the NASCAR hauler for a long post-race discussion. I should preface this by saying, Dustin Long's story on this on NBCSports.com about Josh Williams getting penalized. It was not only the most red story, most red NASCAR story on NBCSports.com this past week. It is the most red NASCAR story by a country mile on NBCSports.com

for the month of March. Wow. So there's clearly a lot of interest in this. Yeah. Well, I don't think we've ever seen anything or haven't seen anything like this ever in a very, very long time. No. Or if it was a very viral moment, it got people's attention. And afterward, Josh Williams talked to reporters and he said, Long time ago when I was younger, I had

something similar happen to me in a short track and I stopped on the front stretch underneath the flag stand and got out and there wasn't one person sitting in their seat. So, you know, I just, I didn't do it to be spikeboard or to make a huge scene and cause everyone to be all to stand here. I just wanted to voice my opinion. I felt that

it wasn't right. But it's an aerobatic. Then on Series XM this morning, he said, So going forward, did this sort of happen again? Would you handle it the same or differently than you handle things Saturday? No, I mean, I think, you know, I did what I did and, you know, kind of, that's the way I voiced my opinion. You know, can I panel it differently? I'm

sure, but, you know, at that moment in time, that's what I chose to do. And I mean, that's not something you're going to do all the time. You know, I mean, there's going to be good calls and bad calls, right? And sometimes it's going to be used, sometimes not. It's going to be used. So, I mean, that's something that's just just be a reoccurring thing. You

know, if there's an issue, you know, make it make it seem like that. But, you know, hopefully we're not putting that position again. You know, if we are, it's, you know, it is sort of this. So, where do we come down? Do you think on this one? I think NASCAR absolutely has to penalize him because she can't just have guys parking their cars and walk off

the track. And NASCAR needs to penalize him for what he did. But, I backtracked to should he have been told to park his car in the first place. And I didn't watch the full race, but I watched clips and I've read enough of it. It's my understanding that he had bare bonds that came off and they parked him for that. I know it's in the rulebook

that they can do that, but how many times have we seen bare bond fly off a car and it's not parked for bare bond flying off a car? Now, the succession and number of cautions in the Xfinity race had gotten to a point where I think they were trying to mitigate things like that happening. Josh Williams comes from a small team, parking the car for them

is somewhat detrimental, not being able to finish the race. And so, I can see where he was so upset. And we forget that the adrenaline that these guys and girls are facing in the car is so ratchet up there. In the midst of super speedway racing, in this case at Atlanta, so I can see where he was just so angry that he did it. I don't

think it was right to park his car on the start finish line. I think NASCAR will be right to penalize him for that because it is a safety issue. But I do go back to should he have been told to park his car in the first place? I don't know that I would have. That's beyond my paycheck. I don't work in race control, but that to

me was like a little bit like if he like, oh wow, they're going to have him park his car for that. Like you're hurting the little guy. Yeah, you're hurting the little guy. Just love him coming in and fixing it, right? Yeah. So that was one big controversy. I think the other thing from Atlanta that was a little bit of a controversy besides the things we've

talked about, and this is the last point we'll make out. Atlanta was the crash in Sunday's race involving Kevin Harvick that took out multiple cars. Ross Chastain was nearby, but we saw him replays. He didn't appear to touch Harvick at all. But of course the internet, NASCAR Twitter was ready to crucify him as normal. What do you make of what we saw with Ross Chastain being

involved around that crash? After everything happened, seeing everything from every angle, it was just a super speedway racing incident. There's no reason. It just happened to be Ross. There's no reason people should be upset at Ross. However, I will say, I was watching the race and at first I was like, oh, Ross just got put on somebody else's bad list. Well, I mean, on Harvick's bad

list, because there was a time where they weren't kosher with each other. And that was on first glance from the bird's eye view before you got the in-car shot and before you got the close up. Then the more angles you saw, you realized, no, Ross really did not touch him. Yes, he took the air of Carvick and that got Harvick loose. But to me, that's just

a product of that style racing in the draft. And at that point, there was nothing Harvick could have done or Ross could have done. So I don't think we can look badly at Ross for this. I don't think you could look poorly on Harvick either for breaking the field. I think there were 12 cars involved. I just think it was a product of drafting style racing.

But again, at first glance, I was like, oh, this is not going to be good for Ross justane. Yeah, that's sure to be a storyline that follows into Circuit of the Americas, which is this weekend. Where Ross justane also is the defending winner. And one last year in this really controversial finish where he had this huge dust up with AJ Almondinger, they wrecked each other back

before that elite. A little back, I though. So the fans that wanted to be Ross justane, they're going to grab onto the Atlanta incident and continue to have a reason to hate Ross testing. Yeah, it certainly gives us another reason to watch Coda as if there weren't enough already. Are you going to Austin? I will be there to cover the truck race. So I won't be

there through the entire weekend, but I'll be there for part of it. So I'm excited to be here. You got Jimmy Kimmy. Yes. Jensen Button. Yeah, Jimmy Kimmy. Jensen Jordan. We're forgetting everybody's talking about Jensen and Kimmy and Jimmy that we forget that Jordan Taylor, four time M.S.A. champion, is going to be in the nine car. And I am so thrilled for him. He's been wanting

to make his NASCAR Cup debut for a long time. They're just throwing him right in. And I'm really excited to see what he's able to do. Yeah, and we've got Conor Daily trying to make this race from the Indie car series as well. So yeah, it's just crazy. Like, I don't know how the star is aligned. That you have two former F1 champions. So Kimmy, right,

can name Jensen Button, Button, making his NASCAR debut. You've got Jordan Taylor, M.S.A. champion, making his NASCAR debut. You've got Jimmy Johnson returning, seven time champion, and Conor Daily trying to make his third Cup Series start. That's a lot. And I think it speaks to the level we've gotten to of not just racing in general, but road course racing. Yeah. You used to look at those

guys when they would jump in on a road course and say, oh, you know, the team is brought in a road course ringer. And I don't think you can say that anymore. The entire field has elevated its road course game. So now for guys to jump in the car like that, I think it's more because they know the competition is stout. It's not just, oh, I'm

going to jump in and be the ringer. It's no, this is going to be a competitive battle because the entire field over the last, I would say, 10 to 15 years has realized, and especially the last handful of years now that we've added so many road courses on to the schedule. Everybody is elevated their game. I would say, I don't know how far back, but there

used to be a time where it was very easy to pick your line up for who you thought was going to win at a road course. Now, I don't think that's the case at all. I mean, we saw it last year with the two track house drivers, Chastain, who I just mentioned, Svora's one at Sonoma, first cup win there. And you forget AG's in a cup

car now, too. Right. We have to remember that, too. I mean, I feel like he's going to make the playoffs because he's going to win one of his races. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly a lot to watch, probably a lot to talk about, and appreciate you coming in here and talking about all this to him, absolutely anytime. We appreciate Kim Koon for joining us on the NASCAR NBC

podcast. Thanks to Motorsports Manager Emily Convoy for coordinating this episode. Thanks to Zach Tanzareti for the show notes. And again, thanks to Kim Koon for stopping by the NASCAR on NBC Sports Charlotte Studio to make it happen in person. Again, you can catch Kim on the Motorsports on NBC YouTube channel this week, breaking down the Atlanta Motor Speedway Race with Jeff Burton and Kyle Petty on

the NASCAR America Motor Mouts videos. And as always, you can find more news, columns, and analysis on NASCAR talk and Motorsports talk on NBC Sports.com. Please visit NBC Sports.com slash NASCAR or NBC Sports.com slash Motors. You can check out what myself, Mike Embry and Dustin Long are writing this week. If you have any NASCAR NBC podcast feedback, you can send me on Twitter. At Nate Ryan

is my handbook. Thanks again for listening to the NASCAR and NBC podcast. Ya know what?