Test of Thyme Episode 9: Hiring Mastery: Navigating the Restaurant Industry

hello everybody hi everybody Jamie and Marcus here welcome to test of time absolutely where we share our love passion and hustle for the restaurant industry uh this is Jamie and Marcus we're on a Roman time Bistro in Ellenville New York since 2003. I've been around for about 20 years yes we have and uh we are here to drop some of our stories knowledge inspiration and hopefully

some of our success tips to help other restaurant tours absolutely and today's episode number nine yes it is and we are going to talk about the number one issue in this industry which is Staffing Staffing finding staff finding qualified good staff finding people that um that help grow your business and that has been that has been something that we've been dealing with for 20 years uh

just bringing in staff that that are reliable that are a hard-working that are that want to learn all of those types of things so you've done a good job we absolutely have done a good job so we're not so hopefully we can share some knowledge on what we've done to help other people because we really don't complain that we don't have enough staff we don't complain

I mean there's always you can always find something wrong with your staff absolutely easily walk in and say this is wrong that's wrong and find anything that's going wrong it's harder to catch people doing something right for most people for most people yes for most bosses right so most bosses you know there's so many topics on this there's really so many topics on this from being

a coach versus a boss from always recruiting from the training aspect um it's from the whole thing but let's talk about the interview process absolutely since that's what we did all day today we did it felt like all day we did the interview princess I feel like I've been interviewing people for a couple days now and setting up interviews and we are looking for some more

employees uh in our front of the house our back of the house right now seems to be really good but we kind of flip-flop sometimes where we're looking for fun of the house uh when we're not when we're good in the kitchen we're looking for kitchen when we're good in the dining room so um we we seem to flip-flop back and forth we have some eight

players in the kitchen right now absolutely like we can open up seven days a week for what we have in the kitchen we've got some and it's and I know it's too much staff but it's hard to be like well I've got all these a players that want to do so it's like I'm finding work for them we're making the menu bigger we're doing things that

are more labor intensive so we're adding extra work because I want to keep them busy I don't want to lose these a players right and even though like when you look at it like we really don't need an extra agent I know we were talking about that today right like yeah so it's like okay what can we do to bring more specials in to make the

menu more exciting do this so we can actually utilize that a player and turn that a player and another that extra a player into profit absolutely so let's talk about the interview process first of all we like to recruit even when we don't need anybody well you always need more people you never know what's going to happen from day to day and that's the biggest thing

you never know what's going to happen you know I I you know we just lost an employee that we had for nine months um we thought she would be here for a while and all of a sudden she turned around and she gave her two week notice so right but prior to that we hired somebody that was totally extra that we were finding work to do

she was working in the office she was helping the airbnbs we even put her in the kitchen a shift or so because she could work in the kitchen and she was gung-ho and she came to us and she wanted to work for us right and we were like okay position but let's find somewhere to put you for now and then as we get busier we'll put

you in the other position that you really wanted so she had literally cross-stringed in every single position and could do every position and then all of a sudden she was only with us a month and then she gets up and quits right um Jews that became our issues and you know then they can't work here anymore so we're like okay no big deal because she was

is really important so go ahead you put so I had a conversation with another restaurant owner recently and they were calling for a reference and I said like how long do you want from this person are you happy hiring somebody's gonna get you three months or do you want somebody to get you one or two years and they go Marcus I'm just concerned about three months

and I'm like like wow like somebody admitting that they don't care how long they get out of an employee at three months is nothing to bring somebody in to train them to get them to speed to think like I'm gonna start all over again in three months yeah folks folks it is your fault that you're not hiring better people you might claim that people aren't applying

for your jobs you might claim that there's no workforce out there we're in the same situation as everybody else but we've built a culture and we've made we've just I think we've made a great workplace we have I think overall culture is very important to us and that was a big key of what we talked about today in a lot of our interviews you know we

had I don't know five interviews today at four yeah and and that was a big part of what we talked about is culture and how important that is to us um you can feel when somebody walks in the door if they're going to be a good fit for your culture you can yeah you can you can because we've we've we're at a point now where we've

made our our our statement on our quality of food the farm to table the health aspects the good bar and people apply to us because they want like we had we had an interview yesterday and she was so excited she's not okay she's an a player but she can't work a certain day and she has limitations in the summer and she's leaving in August right and

we're like this a player's so so good she's like I'm ready to jump back there now and make drinks I've never heard of that I've never heard of that never heard of that brand I'm so excited what are that I can't you know she's like I'm ready to come in and make drinks right now like and we're like oh my gosh I'll do your training this

then we're like but there's limitations so for us to hire somebody knowing we're only going to get three months out of them that's a tough one I think it's a talent to be able to look at people that are super qualified and say but you're not quite you're not everything I need so I have to pass on you it's tempting it is and I I said

well can we find something for her to do right what can we find for her to do but the truth is that no matter what way we look at it she's leaving in August yeah right and so we can use her from now until August maybe not in a in a in a set position maybe moving her around maybe finding things for her to do we're

both tired it's been a long day but but is it worth it to put somebody in that type of position so I would hire her for to come in to write a cocktail menu get us to the next level right create a training program for the next level and train other people for the next level right I don't think I can hire her to work assistant

and rely upon her for that right so you know so our interviews today were very interesting and very different right we had four right um we had one yesterday was it yesterday yeah one yesterday yep or the night before no Sunday so yesterday two or whatever it was we're on our we did four interviews but anyway so you know when you look at all of these

different employees and you look at at the qualities that they all have and they probably all will make good employees or will work some will work harder than others you have to look at a couple of things when they walk in the door right do they smile are they friendly um will they fit your culture and those are all things that we kind of looked at

when they walked in the door and then we sat down with them and you just didn't get that feel from some of them so last year last year when we had a certain employee apply a year ago she sat at the bar filled an application and bought a glass of wine yes she did she bought a glass of wine and she looked at the wine list

and she was like with one shoes I'd like a glass of wine so immediately I thought well gee here's somebody who is into wine this is perfect because we have a great wine list this is for me that was a great sign people might say oh my gosh how dare somebody order a glass of wine during the they come in to fill out right but I'm

like wow so then my coach in his office they have alcohol there's alcohol there's a beer cooler we've been in there that's right in Vegas so he has alcohol and everything in his office and he goes if I've hired people that are drunks it's my fault like if I if somebody can't responsibly have a beer and work then something's wrong and I mean as the boss

I'm gonna get rid of them like I wouldn't hire drunk so I wouldn't hire people that so you know it's not it's what is your point there the problem is not the alcohol right the problem is what you put up with right right and what the employee thinks they can get away with so here's somebody who's orders a glass of wine I'm like okay they know

wine they like wine this is a perfect fit for us so that was like a check box like okay great she filled one of those one of one of those um requirements that we need so back to today so we were in Bill Glazer at the end Bill Glazer so Dan Kennedy and Bill Gates like Blazer inside Circle so we were in um we've seen Bill

Glazer speak several times and the one remember the one time I think was in Philadelphia or DC he spoke about at the interview process do you remember that I do and he was like you just aren't asking the best questions yeah if they ask good questions answered questions you have to keep following up and you have to back somebody into the corner so if somebody says

well I was the line cook at Jack's Bistro you would then say great what time did you come into work every day for Jack's Bistro what did you do there what did you how many people did you work with how many omelets were you cooking in the mornings would you crack all your eggs at one time if you left that job if we called your your

boss from that job what would they say about you what would they say about did you leave on good terms so there's a lot of questions that you can follow up on that will get you the answers that you are looking for the resume is basically to to I don't want to say that see what experience they've had it's for them to fabricate and and highlight

their accomplishments highlight right highlight their accomplishments and hide their failures is what a resume is so for us there's probably certain industries that you don't need to be a good interviewer to be a good employee but for us you need a good interviewer because that interviewer is going to be in front of your guests all the time talking and they're a representation of your business and

your culture and what you're doing at least in our restaurant business unless they're a position back at the house unless they're not but today we were today we were interviewing in front of the house yes so I would say everybody who walked in the door nobody was stupid no no no they were all smart were they all fit for our job no they weren't no not

at all but they were all smart in the in their own capacity and so what are some of the questions we like to ask so first of all back to the thing about just narrowing in and pushing him into a corner just keep pushing them like going back to breakfast how many exes you crack every day what time is breakfast who's responsible for cleanup who's responsible

for writing the menu how did you poach an egg how just you so that because anybody can say oh I cook breakfast at Jack's Bistro but what is what is cooking breakfast at Jack's Bistro really mean right until you start finding and probing in so what are some other questions that you we like to ask so we asked questions like what are your six-month goals what

is your year goals where do you see yourself um in the next couple of months um we asked questions like well the goals are good I like that question because some people what are your hobbies some people know right away and if they're more specific you're like oh wow that's great but every everybody always wants to make more money they always want more time with their

family so those are just general goals I like to ask what books have they read last it's sometimes will surprise me what are your hobbies what are your hobbies what do you enjoy outside of your professional skills I think is a good question what are your what professional skills do you like to use I love I love that question yes because what you find is you're

interviewing people that are good people but you're interviewing them for the wrong job right and you've all sudden sometimes you can find out that that they don't really want to be a server or a bus or work in the dining room they want to do something else and maybe they'd be a better fit for your business in another capacity they're just applying for a job sitting

to make money right but all of a sudden you can find out this person knows how to do great office work or social media pictures or or right right they're just applying for a job to make money and you might think that hey wow you know this person is not really what I'm looking for so what else do you like to do I love these questions

because it really gets you know you know if you could get paid for a skill right now what would that skill be yes and you're like wow then once you start talking about things they love they're a totally different person yes they open up they start smiling they start they enjoying the interview and talking and looking for approval and all of those sorts of things which

is you know which is nice right yeah so it's a totally then it relaxes them yes uh let's see what else on this oh um so I mean we have a we have a whole list of questions um and I hear people like saying well I like to ask like what kind of animal would you be I don't know what that accomplishes well I'll get them

to talk I guess get some talk I don't know what the well what it what kind of animal would you be I I don't I I don't want to put thought into that I want to put thought into the skills that are used for the job and me improving myself well I don't know maybe they want to know if you're going to be a uh kangaroo

and hop around your job maybe they want to know if you are going to be a kid and meow so if I had or a dog and bark and growl I had to be the animal I would say it would have to be some type of a bird I have dreams of flying I have dreams all the time of me flying and having this flying superpower

and I just think that a bird would fit me for that except bird flies that's a good zoo but that has nothing to do with my job I don't think well maybe you like to look from above maybe that's what that means remember like the soar like an eagle right so you never know I mean like a falcon well that's probably true you are an attacker

like a falcon you're like just swooping right like a peregrine falcon 90 miles an hour yes I'm swarming in yeah swooping in swooping and swooping in buzzing in yes yes um let's see so we have peregrine falcons here on the mountain you're getting off not to change the subject are you totally have you you've heard them buzz by before because we've been out hiking and you

can hear them coming and they're just buzzing and all of a sudden you see this flash go by here there's a peregrine falcon 90 miles an hour buzzing past you yes so yeah so I like to skip that question I I thought it was cool at one point at some point you know when I first heard of good questions we've used a lot of different interview

um questions skills that we've learned over the years and I actually think our interview today interviews today were probably some of the best I agree so I think we've definitely increased and I think the more practice you get the more prepared you are the better you're going to be at interviewing people um I think something super important a lot of people don't do and we're guilty

with sometimes too is not handing them the job description um we're 50 50 on that sometimes we do sometimes we don't or we we send it to them after the fact when they come to work for us yeah I think a good time to talk to him about it is in the beginning when you're interviewing well I think it's when you I think it's when you

hire them because they they're they have expectations and now they know what your expectations are right sure the things or when you hire them when they should get it rather than in an interview because you're talking yeah because you're going to talk about you're you're talking in an interview you're going to talk about the things that are required of them and now it's in writing and

they get it once they're higher I see what you're saying right like you're not gonna get if they didn't get the job why would you go over what their job duties are gonna be well you're sort of having the job in the interview right exactly okay I see what you're saying so all right um what were your low points in the last previous job um what

would you do differently in a job I love that question if you went back there what would you do differently yes um is there anything that that you feel that you could have done better or that you did really well I heard something in another somebody else was saying that they don't they don't like to look at the resumes of people they're going to interview do

they like a separate committee to do that because when John or Jennifer or Joe walks in and sits in front of them they don't want any preconceived notions of the person's accomplishments or lack of accomplishments interesting they want to make their their their their decisions based upon eagerness in the actual interview itself versus oh Joe you worked for this great restaurant this great chef this great

look at this look at this and just assume the fact that they know that right because I was taught my my mentors Peter Timmons he goes you know you go work for one of these Michelin three-star places nobody's ever going to care what you did there yeah no you can go wash dishes for Marco Pierre White the name on your resume Thomas Keller on your resume

they're just like oh you worked for Thomas Keller they're not gonna they don't care what you did no no so I know that trick yeah you know what you can't really tell much from a resume at all it's always in person it's always you know how the person um you know is sitting how they're they're demeanorable they fit in how they talk all of that stuff

all makes a difference in in the hiring process some people swear they follow the person out to their car to make sure their car is clean oh life I've heard that from many people I've heard that before I see if it's clean to see if they're organized right but the more you do interviews the better you're gonna get um the more you do them uh the

the more comfortable you're gonna feel I like that because when I was a young Chef I would go and interviews to practice yes you as the boss should be interviewing people so you can practice even if you know the candidate's not good when they sit down or in the first couple minutes go through the whole process interview because it's only going to help you better better

exactly so I'd like to close with really the best interviews on the job co-workers shift so we also that is also required so you're not hired right away you uh come in you work a shift and we talk about it because you might love it you might hate it it might be for you it might not be for you and the best way to find out

if you fit in or how they fit in a new employee is to watch them work and see them interact with everybody so 100 yes and I always tell them you're not going to hurt our feelings if it doesn't if you don't like it we would like we would like you to be a guest we like to be a guest you know that's no problem not

a problem at all you're always welcome as a guest doesn't have to work out as as you know a boss employee relationships absolutely that's how all right so those are some of our tips this is Jamie and Marcus and I'm a restaurant growth secretsuniversity.com check it out we have a great training program over there that you can train your staff uh virtually uh held them accountable

which is a great program we've been using it for years a lot of top companies across the US use the Tony Robbins um General Motors uses this we've adapted it for the restaurant industry specifically and there's a lot of information on it over at restaurant growth secretsuniversity.com uh also on that website just lots of great video content and learning things that you can um you know

just we want to help you we don't have to create your dream restaurant absolutely so go check it out test of time love passion and the hustle in the restaurant business thank you everybody for watching listening however you are tuning in to us we really appreciate it and we will catch everybody soon excellent goodbye