Memorable NBA Games: Detroit's Dumars dazzles in C

than life characters. It's a phenomenon. You mentioned He-Man there, the pistons were the masters of the NBA universe. I guess you could say. When it came to, well, clearly, not in 1999 and not in say nonny. Then you are in our spirituality right now. You're talking NBA basketball. You're talking great teams, you're talking great individual players. Takes it off and there's number 20s. Great, of course,

Johnny goes nuts. I just tried to go up there with playing my game. I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't like anybody. I'm not a peeper person. Strands, you make the past. Yes, you catch the ball. Yes. All the stars were aligned and all the muscles spawned at the right time and I was out of the ground and throw one damn. I was

saving that as a surprise for you. And now introducing your host for in all airness at a Ryan. Welcome to episode 130. Thanks for joining me. Today, I'm happy to welcome a new friend of the show, Ryan Van Duzen, an archivist and curator of Detroit Pistons content and NBA history at large on YouTube. Search Ryan Van Duzen and join over 80,000 fans who already subscribed to

his excellent channel. Today, we journey back to 1989 and discuss a key matchup between Central Division Rivals, the Clevver Cavaliers and Detroit Pistons. It's the final week of the regular season and this contest had significant implications on postseason play. For added context, we cover a few incidents that happened earlier in the season that had an impact on this game, including a late January fight between the

Cavs' braid Dirty and the Pistons Bill Lambeer. Plus a second fight when Detroit's Isaiah Thomas mix it up with Chicago's Bill Cartwright. Less than two. Two weeks before the game were covering today. This conversation was a lot of fun and there are numerous audio drops to enjoy too. After the recap, we briefly discuss Ryan's YouTube channel. He's kindly created a playlist dedicated to this game. All

relevant links are in the show notes. A quick tangent. After the main conversation, I thank some fans of my podcast who have reached out over the past six or so months, expressing appreciation for my show. I've been happy to have two publishers send me review copies of new MBA books. Fans of Steve Kerr and Tyrone Mugsie Boges will particularly enjoy this news. Show notes for this

episode and access to a huge archive of past episodes are available at inallannas.com. Now on to the show. I'm very happy to be joined by Ryan Van Ducen. Thanks for joining me. Might how are you today? No too bad man. I appreciate you having me on. We're going to be chatting about a great regular season matchup that had some important implications in the 1989 NBA regular

season. It's the April 18 meeting Detroit Pistons at Cleveland Cavaliers from a rich field Coliseum in Richfield, Ohio. This particular telecast is from the past sports cable network and the commentators for the game are Fred McLeod and Tom Wilson and they're joined by Marty Adler on the sidelines. Now the coaches for the game today were talking about Chuck Daly of the Pistons and Lenny Wilkins of

the Cavaliers. Anything in particular take your fancy there from the opening of the telecast? This is probably the reason why I love this telecast. This was Taylor Meade from anyone who grew up in the matchup Detroit. Or Michigan past sports was our go to in the 80s and 90s. So this is one of those classic past sports telecasts. Pass was an acronym program sports system. I

don't want to go too deep here. But when you think Pistons basketball, if you're a Pistons fan, you think George Blaha as the voice of the Pistons who's still going to this day. But through a lot of the 90s and late 80s, we also had Fred McLeod who sub folks may know from. This time in Cleveland, he was the main playboy for La Rada's championship in

2016. He's since passed away. When I think 90s basketball, like Pistons basketball, I'm thinking George Blaha, but right after that, I'm thinking Fred McLeod. So pretty nostalgic. The hear is voice. There's a great tidbit to accompany the game we're chatting about today. Detroit locals could pay $3 for a ticket to attend the Palace of Urban Hills to watch the game on what the Detroit Free Press

described as a giant screen television. And apparently 6,045 fans took up that opportunity to watch the past sports cable telecast. I think they did a couple of times when they made their finals runs in LA and in Portland. They used to open up the Palace. And this was year one of the Palace. So you had a Pistons fan base who was just getting their first taste

of success. You had a brand new at the time state of the art. Palace of Urban Hills. So I think people were excited to get out there and they're looking for an excuse to get out there. And it's a sore spot because I'm still coming to terms with the fact the Palace is gone. The demolition of the Palace I believe is on YouTube. You can actually

watch it all go down. So yeah, thanks for that. Probably not great memories for you. No. We could do literally a whole podcast on my feelings on the Palace for those who are not state side or those unfamiliar with Michigan. Urban Hills was probably a solid 45 minutes north of Detroit. We were the Detroit Pistons, but we didn't play in Detroit. So it's nice to be

back in the city. But on the other hand, gosh, there's so many great memories here in the Palace. And you know, it started this year, started in 89. The Richfield Coliseum, not that I've ever actually been to Cleveland, but I know that Richfield Coliseum was a short drive out of Cleveland itself as well. So some similarities there, I guess you'd say. I don't have a draw

to Cleveland basketball history being from Detroit. Just watching this game in particular, one thing that stuck out was the atmosphere was incredible. I was thoroughly impressed. And it's another thing that makes me nostalgic. A lot of the new arenas are cavernous. I get it. But I want new arenas to be an entertainment center. But I feel like Richfield was also just one of those classic. Let's

make a bowl for basketball. And it's going to be loud. It's going to trip up all the noise that it makes for such an awesome atmosphere for a game. We bavourmys not to mention. That the past sports telecast opens with a montage of Pat Benetas all fired up, which was set to highlights of the 1989 Detroit pistons. This certainly gets one into the mood for the

highly anticipated matchup we're about to discuss right. It was amazing. One of the things that I love finding when I dive into these older games. I'm looking for the big moments. Any bad boys altercation is isn't easy. Click and upload. But also like these in between. Like these mantages are just gold. I love it. I love them. And yeah, Pat Benetas, the Rachel is, it worked.

It's 1989 in a nutshell. So yeah, I love that. If our listener checks out your YouTube channel, you'll actually see the opening montage that we're talking about as well. Because you've recently put that up in your channel. Correct. Yeah. Actually, for this podcast, I pieced together a playlist, which hits on a few of my favorite moments from this contest. And I imagine we'll be talking about

those in a few minutes. Awesome. Let's quickly set the scene for the game itself. Ryan, these teams had a definite dislike for one another. It was in late January at Detroit. The Cavaliers, Brad Doherty and the pistons Bill Laine beer were involved in a fight that then NBA director of operations, Rod Thorn. He described as quote, our worst fight of the season by far. That's why

we suspended both players for a game without pay end quote. 5741. We got a fight. Land beer and 40 really going after it. Gordies on the floor. Land beer on television. So now our four Cavaliers on top of Bill Land beer. And I can almost assure you, those two are gone. And it's kind of sad because it's going to take some of the significance from this

game. Now each player was fined $5,000. A Detroit free press article that I read while researching for our chat today said that fans who were watching the telecasts at the Palace of Open Hills were shown 40 to that brawl on the giant screen as a precursor to this game. Can you believe that? That was our identity at the time. And a little like side fun fact.

What gets lost in history and I'm biased. If there's anyone that's going to defend Bill and beer at the summer guard, it's going to be me. That was actually I stand to be corrected. The first time Bill and beer had ever been suspended during his career. It could have been the first punchy through in the late 80s because he had a consecutive games play streak. The

longest active streak in the end of the eighth of time. Those the first time we saw Bill actually react and respond and he connected. There's a nice slow motion run back of of Brad take one to the jaw, but it's with an asterisk because I'm pretty sure that Isaiah is holding one of Brad's arms for the back. So it does appear that Isaiah is certainly holding

onto Brad from behind to help Bill get a chair. So open up with that right hand to Brad's face to his jaw more specifically. So it was a pretty nasty little frack are there. But I found it interesting that they showed that 40 to head of the game itself. Just for those turned up to the Palace of Open Hills to try to get them into the

mood for the game. There is a piece of video that I've been looking for. They have nothing to be able to find out. It was between the Dirty Punch. And today's game there was a another contest where Rick Mulhorn supposedly tagged Mark Price with an elbow to the head, which sounds brutal and every description I've read it. It sounds like price may have been can cost

and some have suggested it was a turning point to the Cavaliers season. I think price may have had like a little downward trend in his plane. I don't remember if Mulhorn was suspended, but I know he was fine. But it's this little piece of that 1989 season I've always been curious about because it seemed to set both teams on opposite tradition. So it does have some

different batteries from there. Yeah, that is fascinating to hear. Just as a background here for a listener, the Cavaliers entered this game having. 1 31 of their. Last 32 games at Richville, Coliseum, and that included nine straight victories. The pistons had won six of their past seven games and 23 of their previous 26. So they were on a tear as well. Weaning this game would clinch

Detroit the league's best record. Home court. Advances throughout the playoffs and a central division title. So there's. Much to play for and it's match up for both times. Yeah, this was one of those things that I think sometimes gets lost in history for people who either weren't around at the time or were around, but just gets lost in a sauce. When we think 89 or at

least when I do pistons, of course, because they took the ring, I think of many Lakers and like number three in that list, I usually think of Michael Jordan and the bulls and it's really easy to think that the bulls and the pistons had this collision course throughout the 1989 season. But in contrast, for most of that season, it was Cleveland. I was Cleveland in Detroit.

And for a while, it was Cleveland by themselves. Caves were 43 and 12 at one point. And the pistons were 36 and 16. The Caves were comfortably ahead of the field for a lot of the year. And for a while, it really seemed like it was almost inevitable that the pistons and the calves would meet in the Eastern Coppants Finals. But of course, exchange when MJ.

It's more. Further to that, which is great information in itself, the Cavaliers defeated Chicago six straight times during the regular season in 1989. And ultimately, they'll be flipped on its head when Chicago upset the higher seated Cavaliers in the first round playoffs, which ended with that. Fantastic, depending on who you ask, which side of the venture on Michael Jordan, Buzz a beta to close out game

five to win the series at Cleveland. On the telecast that we're watching, Marty Adler was caught side. He's probably to the tip off. And just before he throws back to Fred and Tom for the call of the game, he briefly mentions that the Caves fans boot him off the court. Did you pick up other mentioned Boo Birds earlier? They boot me off the floor. The game

is on here's Fred and Tom. Yes, this game is discussed in Cameron styles. The franchise, which covers the 89th season. And they make a point for St. Alters, I should say, to mention just how cashmachron, I think, I thought I'd put this nicely. It was a rough crowd, Jack McCluskey. He was in the crowd that night from the sounds of it. It wasn't a good time.

I love that, to be honest, to a point. Of course, but it ties back to Richfield just. It seems like depending where you stand, either the bass place, the play or the worst place to play. Vinnie Johnson started the game for the pistons with Isaiah Thomas coming off the bench as Zeke was still recovering from a broken hand that he suffered at Chicago some 11 days

earlier after he was involved in the game. He was involved in a fracker with the Bulls Bill Cartwright. As Isaiah was fined $5,000 and suspended two games for his role in the fight. He's still recovering from that broken hand and was coming off the bench. As they have missed two games of the broken hand due to suspension for the fight with Cartwright. And this was something

that would sort of linger with him throughout the playoff. If you look closely, you'll see in that box series, the semi-final, he was wearing a sort of protective glove. He didn't miss any time. He was coming off the bench in a regular season, but it was with a broken hand. I hate to do comparisons with one ear as but a lot of the time, if somebody

breaks a hand, they're almost done for the season. Yet Zeke comes back barely missed a game. It's quite a contrast for sure. It's a tricky thing to consider because I don't know if I'd call this a wise move on Isaiah's part. And not to mention, this was not an injury of happenstance. He either broke that hand on Bill Cartwright's jaw or he'd broken on the floor

after Cartwright threw him to the floor. So you could argue as even irresponsible of Isaiah to end up with a broken hand. And maybe he felt obligated to play through it. But to be honest, that dude was tough. And there's a lot of people who say you have to be bravely ill to get someone off the court. And that was probably true with Isaiah. That dude

played through everything. And it took literally a rupture to kill his dad. And to bring a doubt of the cow and make it in any way. To get into the game itself in the first quarter here Detroit opened up on fire. The cows were trailing eight to zero. And were forced to burn a 22nd time out with just under 10 minutes left in the first quarter.

After there was four long pistons jumpers to from Dome beer, one from Mark, and one from Joe Dumas and Joe Dumas is a name. We're going to be saying a lot in this conversation. Just for context, Mark had recently been acquired. Sorry about that pun there. From the Dallas Mavericks in a mid February trade for Adrian Danley. And a future 9991 first round pick who turned

out to be Lebrada for Smith for those Jordan fans out there. These stats, of course, courtesy of the great basketball reference. But anything in particular you'd like to mention there from the opening of this game and how quickly Detroit could out of the gate. One thing you'll notice if you ever watched the 1989 pistons and you see it here against the calves that pick and pop

the abuse that bringing Bill and beer out for a high screen. And then having him flow and he would just sit probably right around that 20 to 22 foot range. He would crank mid range jumpers all day. And it's something that again, I think gets lost with the Land beer. He was a jerk. And he knew he was a jerk and he accepted it. But as

a result, people sometimes forget that he was actually a really good basketball player too. I would say he's probably among the first legitimate stretch fives or stretch force depending where he's playing. And it made him dangerous. Teams weren't necessarily accustomed to. You have to get out and put a hand up on someone from 6,112 40 from 22 feet. I'm 46 years old. My first recollections of

Bill and beer in terms of watching him here in Australia on TV was the 1990 NBA finals. And I think it was game two. He made numerous three point field goals in that game. I think he might have made five threes. I particularly thought well for a guy of his size to have that sort of range back in this era was certainly something quite specific that

I noticed at that time. I even think for a while he shared the NBA finals record for most three pointers made in a single game. I think that tied him with Michael Dupur for people who haven't seen the Lambert shoot. It's a trip because he doesn't really lead the floor. There's a slingshot motion. It doesn't look like it should go in, but it does, but it

works. Cleveland by contrast missed its first six field goal attempts. And I fell behind 12 nil in just over three minutes of playing time. And the cabs would remain schoolers from the field over six minutes whilst Detroit were firing on all cylinders. As you mentioned there, on the pick and roll near the top of the key lane beer was putting on a clinic early on. And

then on one of the Cleveland possessions, he actually stepped up to challenge the ball handler mark price. And it seemed to me that Bill may have tripped price on purpose. However, Fred McLeod called it quite inadvertent contact and quite on Bill Lane beer. And Chuck Daly was livid. He was whistle for a technical fail quite quickly. And at this stage, the cab fans were in a

near frenzy 14 to 2. This is very intense. Good step up by Lambert. A file. There was time. The technical file for the Lambert has in version time back. But there's no question he's forced to issue when prize made the technical free throw Detroit had the lead 14 to three. Here's the thing. I'll defend Bill and beer to a point. But I tried to find that

line of neutrality. And he 100% knew what he was doing there. It's very consistent with what he did. There's sometimes where he just be like, I'm going to close line you and I'm not going to hide it. But other times, he was a master of if you're not paying close enough attention, it's going to look circumstantial and accidental. But I know for a fact that trip

on price. Yeah, he knew what he was doing. I think so too. And it's great to have you on the show today because I don't think in the history of this show, I've had a pro Detroit fan and a historian at that that loves the pistons as well to talk about this. So it's good to have this mixture between us today. This first quarter. Detroit made

nine of its first 11 shots. And they jumped out to a 20 to three lead. And after that rocky start, the cabs began to work their way back into the game. It was also great to see Ron Harper running freely in transition. He hit a couple of driving layups and it's always a joy to see a pre I.c.l. injured Ron Harper in the open court. 100%

and also a huge fan of dunk contest. Harper wasn't into before his ACL injury. Great creativity, especially for the late 80s. He could do some things in the air. He was quick. Got off the floor quickly. He was creative above the rim. It was a lot of fun to watch it actually. He had a fantastic career. And obviously won a handful of championships as well. So

one of the more unharrowed replies throughout the 90s and into early 2000s. Light in the first quarter, Wayne Rollins, we'll call him Wayne for the moment. And Bill A.B.R. We're getting physical with one another in the low post. And then Rollins would hit a tree mendus running hook shot over Lane B. I'm really sorry about these pounds are on. The pistons lead would be reduced to

11. That was 28 to 17. This is a pretty good segue. We just got done talking about right Harper. And then we got done talking about tree. The reason why I like this game is because for better or worse, if you love the pistons or heat the pistons, there's so many quintessential pistons moments in this game. You see the breadth of their actual talent and what

they're capable of. But you also get like some of that classic bad boy stuff that you always hear about. It was Ron Harper coming down the paint. Rick Mohorn may have been baited into the air. He basically closed lines, Ron Harper. And then there's a camera cup, if you can see, but sounds like tree Rollins sneaks in a punch real quick. The horn with a foul

look out as it pulls Harper down. They roll like down here. No harm done. I don't believe. Now Rollins reaches in with a punch. A technical foul will be assessed the Rollins. That was stupid. Interestingly as well, I noted that the pistons commentators had some bands are about how much a supposed fine would be on Rollins. First of what it would be had more horned being

the culprit. The Cavaliers fans at the time were absolutely ropeable too. I thought it was completely intentional from Mahorn and they probably would have loved seeing Rollins just get that shape shot in on Rick Mohorn. So this is like one of those funny things George Blaha who's been involved with the pistons since the mid 70s. He tends to find a line that's pretty close neutrality. You

know he's a pistons play by play guy. Fred McCloud. He would lose that semblance of neutrality. He wouldn't hesitate. He's like, that's going to be worth about a $200 fine, which he was joking. I get that. But at the time, if you punch somebody, you weren't going to be out tens of thousands of dollars like you would be today. It was pocket change. And that's another

one. The beautiful things here. People who did not actually watch bad boys pistons basketball games because you're too young or you're not interested. Whatever. There's this understanding that either the physicality that is spoken of in hindsight is exaggerated is one assumption. Or other people try to paint this idea that it was just nonstop football all the time. What you'd usually get is like this. And then

there's a nice next where if you watch a pistons game from 89, you're going to get like 90% basketball. But every eight to 10 minutes, you were liable to get something like this. Someone might get closed lined. Something ridiculous might happen. And in hindsight, since we know everyone came out of it. Okay. You can enjoy it. Like that was pretty funny. That was pretty wild to

see. It would have never been sustainable. There's a lot of comments I see, particularly on some of the videos I upload. I'm going to talk back to that era when you could punch someone and just get attacked and move on. I don't think there would have been sustainable. We remember. Kermit and Rudy T, which happened in the seventies. Had the bad boys way of basketball continued

onward. As it did with the next for a little bit, the nineties. I think it probably would have gone sideways at some point. That's beautifully said contrast in the years for sure. Now, lambeer hit the technical free throw from Roland's in discretion. And then harper might be a little bit more. One of his two free throws and Detroit had a 29 to 18 lead and to

close out the first quarter. Mark Price connected on a big three point out to get the Cavs within 10 points. The glaring statistic after one quarter was the field goal percentage for each team. Detroit shot a stellar 58% from the floor, whereas Cleveland shot a lowly 30%. So after one quarter, Detroit held a 31 to 21 lead. It sort of had a feel that first quarter

Detroit could taste it. Like when a boxer has their opponent on the ropes. There was home court advantage, which could have been clinched with a win. There was the division title that could be clinched with a win. This was their 60th win on the line. Sometimes you come out and there's this let up or you come out the other way where it's like, you know what's

at stake. And so let's come out in the steamroll. And I think that's what you got the first quarter from Detroit. I give credit to Cleveland for being able to withstand that punch in part. Thanks to Mark Price. He's incredible. He's underrated. I think he's getting some love now looking back, but what an underrated one. He don't need to tell me twice that he's underrated. He's

certainly one of the great players from the 1980s and 1990s who doesn't get his fair Jew that I don't believe. It was a good fight back from Cleveland. They were down 20 to three. And then the first quarter score was 31 to 21. So they certainly fought their way back into it into the second quarter. The tempo of the game definitely picked up. Bill Lamy opened

a score for the pistons and he hit a three point from near the top of the key to that stage. He had 12 points in the game. And then after a couple of quick scores from Cleveland, the margin dipped below 10 points for the first time since the game's opening minutes. However, that didn't last long as the ever active Dennis Robman scored a couple of times.

And he began to make his presence known on the offensive glass. This is a really interesting moment in Robman's career. He would win the defensive player of the year. The following two seasons, you could just sense that he's important to this pistons team was really coming into focus. What's so fun about watching 1980s Dennis Rodman is he's such a ball of energy. He's a jack of

ball trades. Like the many comes off the bench. He's living and dying with every single possession. It's beautiful. Watch. This is before he got caught up into other sorts of shenanigans. It seemed like after Rick Mahorn, there was like a bad boys. Avoid that it seemed like Rodman felt obligated to fill. He wasn't really involved in much high jinks at this point. You were just getting

someone who was running 90 miles per hour, filling the lanes, coming over on help side, diving for loose balls, five minutes into the first corner. It's so fun to watch and play. One of the clips I wanted to share that's up on my channel. One of Rodman's defensive tendencies that I've always loved is he was a one foot jumper in the half court. When he would

come over from help side, most centers or power forwards or shot blocking threats, they're planting their feet to establish themselves and extending that way. Gosh, I don't know how to compare it. I don't know if it's like a volleyball gather, but one of those gold tens was like a classic Rodman help side block that I think he may have gotten it on the way down a

little bit. But it's always been so fascinating that he's able to gather himself probably within three or four steps for a one footed takeoff and traffic on the help side. Just one of those things that you know, talking to me. The first of the two gold tens was the one that was closest to being a legal block. It just may have been on its downward flight.

And they do show a replay from the opposite baseline. It was a tremendous attempt. And his athleticism was almost unparalleled at that stage as well. I've got on my notes here that the calves done our Valentine would then score on a driving layup in transition. That certainly got the crowd involved and Chuck Daly was actually forced to burn a time out because he had Rick Mahorn,

Bill Latt, Lambeer, and Joe Dumas all sitting in front of the scorers table waiting for a few possessions before they could actually sub back into the game. And actually at that time, there was a minor incident with Craig Yellow, Isaiah Thomas and Bill Lambeer just after that time out was called. They talked about that the franchise because I think there was mostly off camera. That was

the vibe people were on edge. And if things are ever going to get testy, it's going to be when Detroit comes to that at this point in the end. This all happened with just over five minutes left in the half. And the cover. Bill Lies had reduced the margin to just four points. It was 45 to 41. They'd fought back valiantly. Returning from the ad break,

we say a sign that was held up in the crowd that read. Lime beer is a stiff bread McLeod then said, Now how can they say that about a former Cavalier? Speaking of which, that's more footage. I'd be interested in digging up at some point. Bill Lambeer, Cleveland Cavalier footage. There's bits and pieces out there. It's so fun to go back in time to find Bill

before he realized what he could be, which is one of the most hated men in MDA history. There was a time where he was just someone out there grinding and trying to find a place in the league. And that was in Cleveland. It's one of the funny things about the Lambeer. He knew what he was doing and he knew the ramifications of it. He knew what

he would be hated for what he did because he did things that weren't it being hated, but he embraced it. I have not had a cover. I have a conversation with Bill about this, but I would imagine when he saw a sign like that, he likely found it amusing. And some people, they use that as motivation to get out there and do what they do. Just

in a brief segue now, we're talking about Bill and his former team, the Cavaliers in his fourth season as an assistant coach with the Philadelphia 76s Chuck Daly then became the third coach of the Cavaliers during the 1982 NBA season. Now these are all stats I've obtained via basketball reference.com, which is amazing. Don DeLos Daly was relieved of his duties after a four and 11 start.

He was then replaced by Bob Kloppenberg, who was given the hevo after I1 3 start. And then that led to Daly being chucked in as headman. And he went 9 and 32 for he was replaced by Bill Musselman who in turn went to in 21. Talk about a tumultuous season for the 1982 Cavaliers. They went through four head coaches, but more interesting is the fact that

Chuck briefly coached both James Edwards and Bill Laimbier with the Cavaliers. And obviously two K members of the Pissons lineup during this era of Detroit basketball that we're covering today might. It's such an obscure time and Cleveland basketball history. And it's a blind spot for me to those are the types of moments that actually enjoy learning about. I'd like to go back and delve into like

the Chuck Daly Cleveland Cavaliers partial year. Now I've heard a lot about Ted Steppian from the time. Wasn't he just trading away draft fix every single year? They had to introduce a rule that would limit the number of draft fix you can trade away and consign up yours because it seems like he was just running Cleveland into the ground. And I believe Chuck and Bill came

through right in the middle of that. I would imagine once Chuck came to Detroit his knowledge of what Bill earlier brought to the table likely in general manager Jack McCloskey to make that move. Now just to close out the first half here. I've got in my notes. Mark Price came off multiple screens. He just the ball to run Harper on the baseline. Harp connected on the

mid range jumper. And that reduced the deficit to just four points again. It was 51 to 47. And then Price hit a really tough runner in the lane that brought the scorer within just two points. However, as a precursor to how the third quarter would unfold Joe Dumas answered right back with a runner. He's owned from near the left elbow. And that brought the lead back

out to four points. And Jody also hit a long three just after time expired to end that first half. To finish the first half, Cleveland had outscored Detroit 28 to 22. And it was a 53 to 49 lead for Detroit. I've kind of wondered about that shot after the whistle that didn't count. Sometimes it just feels good to see the ball go on the group. Even

if it doesn't count. And knowing what's coming in the third quarter, you kind of feel like it already started right before half. It's a perfect segue perfect amount of foreshadowing for Joe's up to the third. One second to play and Dumas cannot get it off the line. And time take away the bucket. That she was a perfect swish to just to add inside the injury as

far as Cleveland would be concerned as that third quarter would come to be. A couple of quick stats to try shot 59% from the field in the first half to Cleveland's 41%. The biggest disparity that was pointed out by the commentators was in the free throws. And Lambeer had led all scorer at the half with 14 points. And Ron Harper was the leading scorer for Cleveland

with 11. It almost reminded me of Phil Jackson. I think mostly in the wakeers years, when you'd be the middle of the playoff series and you'd find the time to complain about the free throw disparity. And sometimes it's valid. And this particular game, it's because everything was done along the perimeter. The piss ends. They were just pick it and pop in the land beer all night.

So it only makes sense. If you're not attacking the basket, like there's going to be that disparate. But on the plus side, you know, the pistons were hitting. So all's well there as well. Cleveland's Mike Sanders in the low post and Detroit's bill. Lambeer near the top of the key. Open the scoring for each team in that third period. However, as we've been alluding to the

main story would be the pistons Joe Dumas. Dumas with a floater. Yes. He tied a regular season team record with 24 points in the third. Quarad. Kicks it back out for Duma. R's of three. Yes. He sticks it. Joe. A D was 17 points. That included a streak of 17 strike points. Three on two. Duma. R's takes it inside. He lays in his wild. He goes

in the line. He made 10 or 14 field goals, including three three point. Mike's Harper on a switch picks up Duma. R's who lets it fly. He hits it again for three. Duma. R's with 23 points. He's adding 11 points. 11 in his quarter. I was really great actually to hear Fred and Tom on commentary, just reacting to the crazy amount of mics that Dumas had.

Dumas again. Go again. Why does he feel it tonight or what? What in his play? 25 for Dumas. If you're looking to define what it means to be in the zone. I feel like this would be one of those quintessential 80s examples. Of course, now I would probably just pull up clay tops since 37 points. In the quarter, yeah, back in 2015. Gosh, you can just

see Joe Duma's approach to the game change. Suddenly, you feel like you have the license. Seek things out that you otherwise would defer or you'd let the game come to you. There's one point where he misses a runner and then he follows it with a left handed tip in off the glass, which was a completely unJoe Duma R's type of play. It's almost like he was

ordained to have the quarter he did. It's almost like he was ordained to have the quarter he did. 70 57 pistons by 13. Thanks to the heroic. So that guy, Duma R's again. He hit it again. I don't believe it. 29 for Duma R's. This is a nice day. A time is quarter right now, Fred. To be biased here. This is my all time figure piston.

Two man game Duma R's in Lambeer Valentine's Day with him. Join Rian. Just hit it again. What can you say about this? This guy's got 31 points and some of these shots have been very difficult. So this is one of my favorite moments and piston sister to the arms. It's so fun to watch Joe Duma R's cook. Isaiah Price duly. Duma R's off the pitch. Two

more. Bring it up. 33 for Duma R's. He's too away from his career. High. And we still have a fourth quarter to play. It was incredible. Here's just hitting on a whole matter of shot. Duma R's ties a three again. I don't believe it. I'm watching it. I don't believe it. 36 for Duma R's at career high. 24 points in the quarter. After three quarters, Detroit,

Halder 83 to 72 lead. And it was around this point where Fred McLeod was starting to say that the champagne in the lock room was starting to get chilled. When I watched that run from Duma R's, it's the perfect I'm on fire in 1989 run. There's a barrage of mid-range jumpers. There's a few three pointers mixed in there. And I can't help but think like if

Joe Duma R's was that hot in 2022, I feel like a lot of those mid ranges. He's probably just taking a couple steps back. I wouldn't be surprised if he would have touched 30 if he had that sort of performance in today's game. The rest of the piston scored six points combined in that third quarter. Two's from LaMbea, Aguaia and Thomas. And the piston down scored

Clevver in 30 to 23. Clevver's highest scoring output was in this fourth quarter. Unfortunately for them, it was also that way for the pistons. Detroit actually increased their lead by racking up 35 points in the fourth to Clevver in 30. It's worth noting that Mark Price left the game for good during this fourth quarter with a muscle strain in his groin. And he missed the Cavaliers

last two regular season games. And also would miss the opening game of that classic first round playoff series versus the Bulls for sour night there for the cows on top of the defeat. The final score would be 118 to 102. And the pistons and Cavaliers would split their season series at three games a piece. Just reflecting back on that fourth quarter. Mate, is there anything in

particular you'd like to point out? Two really small details. Number one, this would probably only be understood with anyone who wants to get a release. There's one music video on that VHS that is mostly I think pass centric is about point guards. And there's this one low angle replay of Isiah Thomas flinging this bullet over Mark Price's shoulder, to the opposite block for reverse layup. That

pass was about three minutes into the fourth quarter. You only see it once for the press angle, and that's it, but I recognize it immediately if looking for it for years, I can see that some of that. I always want to see what looked like in live action. So if you blink, it's gone. It's classic Isiah. He was liable to fire a bullet. He's also liable

sometimes to fire that bullet into the crowd. You know, again, over Zollas, but when it worked, it was beautiful. That was number one. Number two comes with about three minutes left. If you look at the box score from that night, Brad Dordy was struggling. He had a breakaway dunk toward the end, which makes his numbers look a little bit better in hindsight. With about three minutes

left, Bill Ambier is guarding Brad Dordy in the post. Dordy hits him with a little shimmy shake. Midia hook on the broadcast. You can hear Bill yell. You're a little bit. Dordy with a bucket. I'm tricky. Maharan. Hey, made one. It's perfect. And it's classic. Bill Ambier for better or worse. If you hate Bill, it just makes you hate him more. But it's twisting the knife

at that point. I think Dordy was probably four for eleven at that point. The A-Syn on the kick for Pistas. I had to rewind it to then watch it again and look at Bill's mouth to make sure it was him that set it. One of the comment I did say was Ricky Maharan. Four Detroit Joe Dumas had 42 points, which was a then career high. He

also added eleven assists four rebounds and three steals. So a tremendous game all around. Lambier ended up with 18 points and eight rebounds. Isiah had 17 points and eight assists. And Rick Maharan had 11 boards. Mark Price led Cleveland. With 21 points, eight assists. Hot Rod Williams had 14 points and seven boards. Don't know of Valentine had a good game. He had 14 points and five

assists. And Brad Dirty, you finished up with 13 points and 10 rebounds. Ron Harper finished with 11 points. Detroit claimed their second straight division title. They got the home court advantage throughout the NBA playoffs. And also brought up their 60th winner of the season as you alluded to earlier as well. The funny thing that it sticks out to me in the backscore. Joe Dumas, Racking up

11 assists. I don't know if I was just like Keaton and Sommas rise by this third quarter, but I can't remember him distributing the ball this game. I don't know. He ended up with 11 assists. That's wild. Number one. Number two, Isiah still has this broken in 11 days. You said after the fight with Bill Cartwright. The fact he's out of your scoring 17 points. Eight

assists two turnovers off the bench. Joe Dumas has always been my favorite piston. There was a time where I was like, I say it's great. I'm not sure, kind of wrote him off, but the more I look back and the more I watch Isiah game by game, the more respect I gain for him as a player. I know that he's hold a rising from a personality

standpoint. And particularly from his decision in 1991, that the conclusion of the Eastern Conference finals, but strictly from a player standpoint, gosh, he has a warrior. It's wild. When my favorite parts about this broadcast is, the past sports cameras following the pistons into the rich field locker room. It's so fast and avi whenever you get a glance at the NBA experience looked like for road teams

in times gone by. It looks like a high school locker room. I've literally gotten ready for games and locker rooms that would put that rich field storage closet to shame. But on the same hand, it's actually kind of like this little slightly intimate moment being able to see the pistons coming in and celebrating their second consecutive division title. You're looking live at the locker room as

the pistons come in. Michael Williams, James Edwards, Dennis Robyn, John Long, Mike Abdenauer, John Sally, they're loving it as the pistons guarantee themselves. Home court advance throughout the playoffs. I'm going to interview with Joe Dumares toward the end. It's always fun to see Joe get his due. You're on my back in Detroit. How big do that basket look to you tonight? Once I got up in

the air and just located the goal. I felt like it was going in. If you ever had any kind of game like this, even in the gym by yourself, where it seemed like every shot you put up, it was going to go in. I scored a lot in college. So I had a lot of nights like this, uh, where everything felt like it was going in.

But by far, this is a best corner I've had in the NBA. This was just the fourth loss at home for Claire. They're in Cleveland. Their last two regular season games will be on the road. And they finished the season. Stella 37 and four at home, which was a then tie for the third best home record in NBA history in 1989. Joe Dumares is 30 points

in the second half set a then team record. And with that victory, as we said, Detroit clinched the NBA's best record. They end up with a 63 and 19 mark. Joe Dumares career high for those who are wondering is 45 points. It was in a game. At Golden State from March of 1992. As our listener would most likely know Ryan Detroit would steamroll through the playoffs

on route to the franchise's first NBA championship since they've relocated some four decades earlier from Fort Wayne. The next day is Detroit free press. The headline read quote. It's a cinch. Pistons clinch and quote they were trying to keep a lid on things looking forward to the 1989 playoffs and particularly those NBA finals, which they'd won. For the first time since, as we said, that made

from Fort Wayne. It's interesting to watch this transformation that sort of happens with the pistons probably dating back to like 87 or 88. The bad boys monitor was shot into the stratosphere by the NBA. These two released these DHS yearbooks for certain prominent teams. They made them for the bowls into the 90s. One was untouchables. The 1988 histons VHS video yearbook was called bad boys. The

one that was in the NBA was the wooden call turmoil, but there was kind of a dispute within the team of all right. They're labeling us as though we're out here starting fights every single game. Sometimes they were, but they kind of make this decision. Like do they run away from the bad boys, Monica or do the embrace it. I think 1989 is when you got

a team that just went all in and said, let's embrace it. And the organization did too. By the time they reached the Eastern Conference Final, there'd be times before the game where they'd have someone run across the court with a showing at flag, not with the pistons logo, but with the skull and crossbones of the bad boys, which you probably would never get today. They would

never fly. All do respect to 2022. There's wonderful basketball being played and everything, but they're not going to let you walk out there with an unofficial secondary logo of school and crossbones. That's the black flag is not that they had with the what text and image. Yeah, in Detroit at the time, that was a phenomenon. I am 38 years old. I was only like six at

the time. So a lot of what I know about the pistons has come in hindsight. What I knew about the pistons of the time was they felt like superheroes in 1989, 1990. If you're growing up in Detroit and you're between the ages of like four and 10. Here's what was hot. The teenage being in the turtles. Bo Jackson, who played football in the NFL and Major

League Baseball at the same time. He man. And then you had the Detroit pistons. Every single piston had a nickname that made them sound like a superhero. You had Zeke. You had the microwave. You had Buddha. You had the worm. You had spider. They were just these larger than life characters. It's a phenomenon. You mentioned, hey man, they had the pistons with a masters of the

NBA universe. I guess you could say. What it came to. Well, hopefully not. I'm not a non and not a nonny. 2004 was incredible as well when the pistons won. But I think it's going to be hard to match that first time, especially with the hype of the bad boys. It felt like we were doing it our way to some degree. And of course it comes

with its flaws as we would see in those pistons balls here at the time. What a wonderful time to grow up. It's pretty fun to look back to. I want to go back to the importance of this particular game. So everything had culminated here. If the ball bounces a different way here or there, we talked about the Cavaliers. You say they've lost four home games all

year. 37 and 4 that would. They were probably at the time closing in and matching the all-time mark. I'd have to see what the 86 Celtics were at home. But there was a time where the Cavaliers were chasing history in some regards. And to go from that where they probably had a five game lead in the central in mid February. They're running away possibly chasing the

best record in the NBA. And then having to settle for the third scene, which set them up with Chicago in the first round. What a gut punch. Growing up I used to watch that Michael Jordan shot over Crayillo. And by the way, here's where I stood on the balls when I was younger. When I was six or seven, I was so sure after Michael Jordan hit

that game winning shot. I was so sure that he jumped kicked Crayillo. I was convinced that he crotted kicked him to the ground and I stood by it. Of course, it's ridiculous. Didn't happen. But he always on his knees on the sideline. Outwards. So it does make sense. And that's how my brain worked at the time. If you're a raisin Detroit, you were also raised to

hate Chicago and the bulls for more reason. No sense. So there's that. But I saw Cleveland as a spotter. Why is that coming up? Like, yeah, it's the Cavs. Why is that Jordan shot so great? Anyway, it's just the Cavaliers. Those 89 Cavs were not just the Cavaliers. Like, this was a team that won 57 games. And very well could have been a number one seed

in the East. If a few things shook out differently, maybe if the pistons don't trade Adrian Danley. So that's kind of what set up their huge tear. The pistons finished the season 27 and three run, which took them from being five games back to winning the central by six games. But let's say that trade doesn't happen. Let's say Adrian Danley and Chuck Daley have a falling

out and things just get worse. Kind of like Otis Thorpe and Doug Collins in the mid 90s. If Cleveland grabs that one seed, who knows what happens? And if it's the pistons who are stuck with Chicago in the first round? Gosh, I think all bets are off. I don't know if Detroit would have been ready for Chicago at that point. The fact that Detroit got to

watch Michael Jordan make his run through Cleveland. And then New York, in the second round that Chicago saw being able to watch what was happening in Chicago. I think should have given Detroit a heads up. And even then they got punched in the face in that Eastern Copperant Slinyls. Lost Game 1, 94, 88. There's only so much you can do to prepare for Michael Jordan. But

it's just so interesting. Like, there's some butterfly effects that happening here. The Cavaliers, I don't think ever fully recover from number one losing the central. To Detroit. And number two losing to Chicago in the first round. I think it's really important for people who look back to realize that that Jordan shot. That was a six seed, you know, taking out a team that won 57 games.

It's pretty amazing. And I'd say. Absolutely was. And it certainly stunted the Cavaliers franchise for quite a few years to come. Unfortunately, as far as Cleveland were concerned, because they were such a great team in the late 80s into the early 90s. And again, we meet the bulls in multiple playoff rounds as well. With the exception of the Chicago Bulls who did take two games from

the pistons in the Eastern Conference finals, Detroit swept the opponents. They went three zip over Boston in round one. They swept the Bucks for Zip in the Eastern Conference semis. And took out the defending back to back champion, LA Lakers for Zip as well in the 99 NBA final. So an incredible run there for Detroit to get the first of their two straight NBA titles. I

love talking about old games. So to be able to dissect this, and you provide the video for you to find it really great. I've followed your YouTube channel for some time now. You've got over 80,000 subscribers, as we record this, which is fantastic, what can fans expect to see on your channel and what your main focus. I have a rundown of, I think, every single individual

dump contest performance until 2018. But it can also be literally any small moment that I feel as notable in NBA history. I feel like everything from 2007 onward has had an online life that's been on the internet. But that just means everything before the mid-2000s, maybe unaccounted for with the exception of the biggest moments. We know Karim's sky hook will be there. We know that we're

going to be able to see the world. We know that Larry Bird's steel will be there. That's always on YouTube. My goal is to define the undercurrent. The more obscure sometimes the better. If there's a player that you heard about, and you want to see what his game looked like, I like the idea if you be able to type his name into a search, and you're

going to get something is my hope. It might be two minutes of mark-making with the pistons or Paul McCaskey highlights. I feel like those things matter. I think it's important that we document them. That's been my goal from day one. There's a heavy lean toward the pistons because I'm a pistons fan. A lot of my work comes out of Detroit. But by no means am I

limited to it. I'll include links to your YouTube channel. I'd definitely suggested our listener. Check out your great channel there and subscribe for what it's worth. Do you want to add anything further before we put a bow on the episode? I appreciate you having me on. It was so much fun. I literally talk about anything pistons related. It was a blast. I'd love to go back.

Appreciate you having me on. I'd love to get you back on some stage. We'll work out another pistons game to chat about. We can do this all again. Thanks very much for being a part of the show today. Hey, man. Thanks a lot. Take care. Thanks for listening. I welcome your interaction with the show. Tap the microphone icon on my website to send me a voicemail.

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