Jerry Colangelo: Chicago Bulls, Phoenix Suns, Team

of the NBA. In number three, I believe in myself. That was 1987 in 2004 when I sold a team. It was for over 400 million. I don't look back on that. So gee, if you kept the team for another 20 years, look where you would have had the value at. That's not important to me. You make decisions and you move on. Then you are in our

studio right now. You're talking in the A basketball. You're talking great teams. You're talking great individual players. Takes it off and there's number 23 and of course Johnny goes nuts. That's a wrong game. First time to think about it now. I just tried to go up there and play my game. I have no idea what you're talking about, am I? Don't like anybody. I'm not a

peeper person. Grant, you make the pass. Yes, you catch the ball. Yes. All the stars were aligned and all the muscles spalled at the right time and I was out of the ground and throw one damn. I was saving that as a surprise for you. And now introducing your host for the game. We're in all airness and I'm Ryan. Welcome to episode 127. Thanks for joining

me. Today I'm excited to welcome the Godfather of Arizona Sports. Jerry Kalangelo. Jerry's contributions to professional sports are a measurable. In this conversation, we focus primarily on his incredible basketball journey. Jerry discusses his high school college and semi pro playing career. Before detailing how he became involved with the birth of Chicago's NBA franchise in 1966, he recalls how the team's nickname, Bulls, came to be and

what it was like to be a day one employee. We cover his move to Arizona where he was GM of another expansion franchise, the Phoenix Suns. Jerry talks about the famed coin flip to obtain the services of Lou Alcinda later. Jerry's brother and how the Suns worked their way into an NBA final appearance in 1976 versus the mighty Boston Celtics. Jerry describes how he built the

mid to late 80s Suns into title contenders and the big trade that brought Sir Charles Barkley from Philadelphia to the Valley of the Sun. We briefly cover Jerry's vital role in rebuilding Team USA. But for more context, I've included a link in the show notes to an in-depth podcast episode where Jerry discusses how he turned that program around. A huge thanks to great friend of the

show Fat Leaver for the assist in connecting with Jerry. And also thanks to Jennifer Gray, Vice President of JDM Partners, Jerry's company for helping arrange a suitable time to chat with Jerry. Towards the end of the episode, I'll share another great podcast review. If you can spare a moment, please add your review via Apple podcasts. See the reviews link on my website. It will be most

appreciated. Show notes for this episode and access to a huge archive of past episodes are available at inallannis.com. Now onto the show. My guest today is inextricably linked to the history of basketball. Start a bloom town, ship high school in Chicago Heights and was a standout collegially at Illinois before landing a job with the expansion Chicago Bulls in 1966. Two years later, age just 28, he

became the youngest general manager in professional sports when he moved his family to Phoenix to run the expansion Suns. He's a four-time NBA executive of the year and was inducted into the basketball hall of fame in 2004. Mr. Jerry Kalangelo, thanks for joining me. It's my pleasure to be with you. I hope things are well with you. Things are going well here in Australia. Thank you.

May I please call you Jerry? Absolutely. Thank you. That's great. We're just asking for our chat today. I read that as a high school senior, your bloom township Trojans won a third straight south suburban league title. And along with your teammates Bob Bell. And Homer Thurman, you were named first team all star by the Chicago Tribune. Your Trojans won the sectional title of the state tournament

in your senior season. And twice in your high school career. If I'm what I read, your team made it to the sweet 16 of the state tournament. When you reflect on those high school days, what stands out most to you, Jerry? Well, the opportunity to play a game that I love as much as I did. It took some great teammates and I appreciate the coaching they

had under the coach Berk Moore, who had a lot of confidence in me and let me go. In other words, he let me play to my strengths. And I appreciated that because it served as a springboard to be able to perform reasonably well on a collegial low. I played Chicago hot to a Cook County American legend junior baseball total. At what point did you have to

make the decision to focus on all the baseball or basketball? Well, I was originally more involved in baseball than basketball. But basketball came out very strong as a left handed pitcher. I did have offers to sign as a young player. One of my teammates was a guy named Jim Bountain, who won't end up pitch for the 80s. A pretty tough book at the time called Ball

Four, which was kind of an expo, say, of what happens in a locker room. And that didn't help his career, if you will. We won the Tina Lee World Series when I was 14. We got to the American Legion Nationals when I was 17. I broke my hand and my arm was kind of gone by overbitching. And I was offered a nice bonus by one of

the MLBs. But I had 16 to one inside me. But basketball had already become a big part of my life. And I made a decision. If I could get enough cash in the way of a bonus, I would have foregone basketball. I know that's hard to believe today. Looking back in my whole life being around basketball. But I didn't get that offer. So it wasn't meant

to be. And I'm glad it turned out the way that that's a great slotting doors moment. If ever there was one, I was fascinated to learn. How close you were to becoming 10, 18 college with the legendary Wiltschamelon. When you were a high school senior, Wilts was a sophomore at Kansas. And from what I understand, a conversation with Wilts helped make you return back to Illinois

to play with the fighting alumni after one semester at Kansas. I actually had 66 college basketball offers. And I limited my interest just to handful of schools Notre Dame Michigan Illinois, my home state school. And Kansas because world was there. Back in those days, freshman were not eligible. So I would have had one year with Wilts. This senior year would have been my sophomore year. And

I knew I could start. They really needed outside shooting. That was one of my strengths. That's why they wanted to be badly. So I go there. And I lock her next to Wiltschamelon. And get to know her pretty well. And one night he shares with me that he's not coming back. He's been assigned with the rope trotter for 75,000. And I said, you can't do that.

I came all the way out here. He says, yeah, well, I'm out of here. And you are too. Something like that. So I went in, told the coach I wanted to transfer. And he wasn't happy about that. In fact, he gave me a little bit of incentive. He said to me, your quitter, you're never going to amount to anything in terms of your future. And I

just looked at him. And I said, coach, I hope I can prove you wrong. And I turned around and walked out. And that's the last time I saw him. So I went to Illinois. That was meant to be. A lot of great things happened. I met a young lady who has been my wife now for 61 years. I played as a sophomore, junior and senior in

terms of basketball. Baseball, I pitched two years, but I was through. I could throw hard anymore. So two years of college baseball was captain. All big 10 honors at the university. That was fine. But it also gave me a lot of exposure in my whole state, which led to because of that exposure, a man who had a dream to break pro basketball to Chicago, wanting me

to be part of his startup team. Yeah, that was in 1966. I got out of school in 62. And it's 65. I met Mr. Klein. And we were awarded the franchise in the spring of 66 and lowly old. That was the birth of the Chicago bolts remarkable. And you suddenly did shine. I tried to be always at Kansas. What you could go. I was trying to

become an incredible turnaround for sure. Just to give our listeners some context, you were an honorable mention. All big 10 selection as a junior and senior with a fighting a line. I knew the team captain as a senior played all 23 games in 1962. And the team went 15 and eight. Yeah, I was close to 13 points and more than four rebounds a game. I was

curious. Actually, in the Chicago, I tube you in. They described your game a great outside shooter. And you're about six foot two or thereabouts. It's three. At that time, if I had a minute, three point long, were you beyond that sort of range? I really did have pretty good range. I did a lot of crazy things as a young did. I would eat a lot of

carrots because supposedly carrots would help by shooting. I would shoot at night because my attitude was if I could shoot with the moonlight, I could sure shoot a lot better when the lights were on in the gym. Did a lot of shoveling advice and snow to be able to shoot the ball every day. And those are great memories and great things to look back upon because

nothing comes easy and light. You have the urnets. You have to work at it. Fortunately, I followed boat with swords and had some ability and tried to maximize as much of it as I could. That you certainly did. Following colleagues, you played some semi professional basketball. In what was called the North American basketball league. Now I knew very little of this league before researching for our

chat that I you play with the Chicago bombers. Then you were traded to the Holland Carves who were by Stephen Michigan. How would you describe that in IBL experience? It was basically a bunch of guys who could play were here below the NBA level of play. They're in mind that at that time, there were only 19s in the NBA. 19 Chicago turn out to be the

10th team when it was expanded in 1966. So it was a not let for guys like me who still wanted to play. We got paid a few bucks. I think it was for me. $50 a game. When there was cash, there wasn't always cash to pay us. But I loved it. The fact that I meet so many friends. I had so many associates, teammates. I kind

of grew up in the game. The transition going up the ladder has always been pretty easy for me. Even being traded. There was a good experience. They didn't want you anymore. But there was somebody who did. I'll tell you a funny story. I'm the evening before the announcement that Chicago was being awarded. I'll take you back to the day before Klein was in New York awaiting

the decision by the NBA order. He called me. I was in Chicago at the offices in So Star. He said, we got it. We're in. We had kept everything we were doing in Chicago under wraps. Nobody knew that we were buying for franchise. So I sent a telegram out to all the media. As soon as I got the call from Klein and it said, an apport

sports announcement of both local and national interests will be baked tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. that the water tower. He signed the Chicago bolts. We had a rate picked the name. The name came from a dinner that finally I had two weeks. We couldn't play at the Chicago Stadium. The works family that on the hockey team, the black hearts, felt that basketball would not make it

in the city. We had to go to the amphitheater, which was the old place where we used to slaughter cows and pigs and everything else. It smelled very good, but they had to build it. 10,000 seats. And we played our first season in that old building. Over dinner that night in Chicago. He said, look, we're going to know whether we have a team at two weeks.

We don't have the name. And I said, well, we can't play at the stadium. I think Chicago needs a real tough looking logo in vain. We're going to be at the amphitheater, the old slaughterhouse. So what are you saying? I said, what about bolts? He said, that's it. That was how the name of team came about over dinner and using the logic I just gave you.

So back to the story of sending out telegraph and it signed the Chicago bolts. I took the news releases that my secretary had prepared. He jumped in the car, drove around the lake in snowstorm. To Michigan, the play you said I was treated to Holland. Well, Holland was playing Chicago. This turned out to be my last game competitively that I played it. In an overtime, we

won. I did hit the game winner. I did have 37 points. And after the game, my teammates, everybody wanted to celebrate. I broke the news to them about what was going to happen the next day. I got to the hotel, went to the press conference, passed out the news releases. Yeah, that was the birds of the Chicago bolts. That's absolutely remarkable. I wanted to incredible 36

hours for yourself to do all that. And then follow through the following day with that massive news. Some of the newspapers at the time, listed your position with the bulls as director of merchandising and others suggest that it was a combination of sales and the promotion director and head scout. Regardless of what the title was, how exciting was it for you to be working in your

home city with the newly established franchise that Chicago bulls? Well, it was fantastic. It's interesting. Even in our first year, Seattle and San Diego were added as expansion teams. And Seattle group wanted the Seattle. I'm a Chicago guy. I'm happy where I am. It was a mom in Papal League. It was a mom in Pap operation. We only had like eight people in the front office,

which I was a Chicago and you did whatever needed to be done. I did all the scouting. I actually served in many ways as a GM because my boss was listed as president in GM, but he didn't do any of those day to day activities at all. So I did all the marketing. I did all the scouting. I did anything I needed to do, including sweeping

the floor. So you learn from the ground up. Clearly you were a linchpin of the organization from basically Taiwan. It's not quite to him. You see the stories are really appreciated. You share it with us. I also read somewhere in the Chicago attribute that on occasion, you scrimmage with the bulls, play as if I was short on gods. Is that accurate? Yeah. That's true. And had

a lot of fun doing it. There wasn't much difference between many of the players, including myself with some of the guards. So during that first summer, in preparation for our first season in Chicago. Johnny Kerr was our head coach. We would work out. Players as they came in at the old Washington YMCA. So Johnny and I would play two on two against rookies. Some of the

bets that came in. Johnny and I were undefeated all summer. We didn't lose any games. We weren't optimistic about what might happen during the record season. I was in the way we all were starting to franchise. And by the way, looking at the cap on your head with the bull, after we had that dinner, and I said to the client, and he greets it. It's the

bulls. That's the name that I said, I'm going to have my friend who's in the advertising business. Do a local force. And what I have in mind is kind of a mean looking bull that truly represents the city of Chicago and the colors, black, red, etc. That's what he did over the next few days. That's the only logo in the NBA history that's never changed. Well,

I'm referring to as a funny jack math and see it. An advertising agency, Jackie Mathis company. In fact, prior to the bombers that played on the chemical states. It was an a UT and a number of players who ended up playing in the NBA and in the NBA started that way. That was a fun, fun time for me also. This all happened between 1962 and 66

during those years before the bulls were born in 1968 at age just 20. You left Illinois and moved your family to Phoenix, Arizona. How did the opportunity to be the youngest general manager in professional's board history at that time come about? Well, I mentioned Seattle a little bit ago that they were interested in the fellow named Sam Schollon was to beat the owner of the Seattle

team. And he was became friends with a guy named Block and Los Angeles who turned out to be one of the principles of the new Phoenix team. Schollon recommended me to block. He said, this is a guy you need. And that's how that came about in terms of the offer from Phoenix. Milwaukee had offered me the GM job also. And I had a choice. Stay in

Chicago where my boss wanted me to stay. Phoenix or Milwaukee, when I can't do Phoenix for a visit. I'd not been to Phoenix previously because the scouting I traveled by the bit extensively, but never Phoenix. I saw an incredible place. It was almost as though here's a new city. It's just starting to grow. I would use the following way to explain it. I saw flying canvas.

I just loved the idea of picking up the family, making that move. We left two weeks after that visit to Phoenix with three kids, two, four and six, nine suitcases. Whatever we had left everything else to be paid $300 in my pocket. And we moved to Phoenix and never looked back. You hired Johnny Red Curve away from the bulls to become Phoenix's first head coach. And

in that inaugural season, the suns went 16 and 66. What do you remember most about that first year on the court as the suns made their way into the NBA? Well, we had a strategy when we went through the expansion draft. We were taking young players. Truly believing in our hearts of hearts that we were going to win the flip of the coin for Lou Elcinder

later became Carimel Bujabar. Milwaukee's strategy was take grizzly old veterans and they did. When the chap hole we had people like that. And they weren't 27 games. We went 16, but everything was geared forward. We're going to win the flip. Well, we didn't win the flip. We lost the flip of the coin. And he went to Milwaukee, changing his name. To Carimel Bujabar. I had to

start over. I made a comment to the media. I said, well, we're going to have to do it the hard way. And before the next season began, I acquired tiny Hawkins from the HDA, traded for Paul Silas of Power Forward from Atlanta, drafted Neil Wall at the center from Florida. And a few other smaller pieces. We went from 16 wins to 39 wins in one year.

It was the biggest turn around at that time. In the history of the FDA, admit season, I wasn't happy with progress. And I actually relate my good friend, Johnny Curavis, duty, something replace them with myself. I just felt I had the desire and the ability I thought to get the job done. We did bring it together. We had a good run. We made the playoffs very

exciting time. We established ourselves in Phoenix. And we run up against the LA Lakers with three Hall of Famers to be. My old friend, Wil Chamberlain, Al Joubaylor and Jerry West. And we had them down three games to one. And they came back to beat us in seven. But we truly did establish our franchise in Phoenix. And that second year, even though we lost the flip

of the coin. And about six years later, we got to the finals. Well, we played Boston at 76. A fantastic series. Obviously didn't end the way you'd like to. But it was an incredible six games. The iconic. I just going back for a moment. So that coin toss. There's some amazing footage of you and Red Curr listening to buy out the phone to them. Commissioner at

the time Walter Kennedy as he announced the result of that coin flip. Your reactions speak volumes. You called heads. And the result ended up being tails. Well, I wanted the fans to be involved in the Suzuki reiki process. There was a big thought that took place through the newspapers and 51 points. Kennedy a half dollar and Kennedy himself was in New York with his staff. Milwaukee

was in Milwaukee. And we were in Phoenix. There was no big TV deal here. Here's really what happened. Kennedy took the coin. He flipped it in the air and it came up. And the press and he flipped it over and called tails. Now just this little move from here to here. Change District for sure. I was devastated. The scene that you saw at the desk when

he made the call. It was really tough. It was hard. But hours later, your sleeves are rolled up and you're going back to work. We recovered quickly. I thought it's so did everyone else in basketball. I look at it as I had 40 great years with the sons. In June of 1969, you signed the Woodbeah Hall of Fame, a Connie Hawkins, who you mentioned a little

while ago. You signed him as a free agent. He had the previous two seasons in the ABA with the Pittsburgh Pipers. And then they became the Minnesota Pipers. In his four full seasons with Phoenix, Connie was an all star every year. And the average better than 20 points, nine rebounds. And for a sister game, you actually had Connie as one of the four people who were

there on the night. You're inducted into the basketball Hall of Fame in 2004. Obviously your links go back many decades. What was the likes of witness, Connie Hawkins in full flight pattern upon. He made first female NBA that first year with us. So yet an outstanding year. Connie unfortunately didn't take care of himself physically as a young player. He was so called barred from playing in

the NBA. He kind of was around the ABA, ADL. By the time he got to us, he was 28 going on 29. And his prime was a little bit behind him already. As I had seen him, he was a high flyer in this younger days, 21, 22, 23. But he still had enough juice left to do what he did. One of the most entertaining players you'd

ever find. He had tremendous hands, his size and his hands. And he could do things with the ball. That were over the top. I remember our last regular season game that first year when I was coaching that were playing San Diego at San Diego. And they had Elvin Hayes. And I'm thinking more of him than anyone else that played for them. We were down by 20

to half. And the game meant something to us because for positioning purposes and playoffs, it was worth some additional monies to the players. So bear in mind. The money that was the anything like it is today. The payroll of the bulls that 66 was $180,000 for 12 players. In the locker room. Anyway, we came back in a second half that coming back, chipping away, chipping away.

We got down to the last 24 seconds. And I call timeout. And I called a little play for Connie to come off off a screen with his strong right hand. And he would have to take it to get past Elvin Hayes. Who was a leaper? He's went up, locked the shot, awkward down, grabbed the ball with his claw. Like I said, his big head. Put it

down, went up the game to dunk. And he got locked again. Second time. The clock is now continuing to move. We're down now to the last five seconds. And one more time he grabs the ball on the floor. And he starts to go up. But he brought it back and jammed it. And I jumped about six feet off the bench. When that happens. So we're up

by one with just a second or two to play. And I put a rookie, a guy named Lamar Green, who was a leaper. Ironically, the first game I had coached was against the same team coach by Alex Hanum. And it was the last second kind of a situation. And they ran them out of bounce play that I remembered. Bear in mind, I didn't have a cystic

boaches. I was the GM. I was the coach. I was the assistant coach. Just by remembering what they did in a game three months earlier. I put in Lamar Green. And I said, you front elbow days. And when that ball is thrown in, you jump as high as you get. Okay. Well, he did just that. He jumped so high. The ball hit him in his knees.

That was the end of the game. Cockat 44 and 20 rebots. I think in that game. Right. Really appreciate you sharing these with us. I'd just like to quickly mention a pre-season game. October of 1971, 3,400 people watched the suns beat the balls. 115 to 110. Is that Bloom Township high school in Chicago Heights trivial to most. But I imagine for you, it must have been

a very memorable experience given your links to Chicago. Your ties to the balls, of course. And the fact that the game has played on the court that you great. And it's a great place to the hospital. I've always tried to keep the ties and relationships from the old neighborhood. But it was important to me. I think in today's world, people just don't have a clue about

things like that. I learned that as a young, young kid in the old Italian neighborhood. Don't forget where you came from. Don't forget your friends. Don't forget those who would help you accomplish things. They always attempted to give back. I remember in my first year with the diamond back. I was a baseball team after I gave birth to the major league baseball team. We went back

to Chicago. Most of my friends were all cup fans. And I remember I bought a ton of tickets that were able to give me the seats back then. They had hundreds of people. All dressed in our colors. Purple, little bit of orange. We beat the cups. So I go to Chicago to play my old team that I was a bit bent up. We beat them. You

can never forget where you came from. And the people who were there to help you in your journey. You mentioned the 1976 NBA final a little while ago. That was a remarkable season for Phoenix in general. The team went 42 and 40. Made the playoffs for just the second time in franchise history. You defeated Seattle. And then upset the heavily favored Golden State Warriors. And then

advanced to meet the Celtics in the NBA finals, of course. Though Boston ultimately would prevail and you took them to six games. This was the first of four times that you were named the NBA executive. The year in 1976. What memories do you have of that run to the NBA finals and just the atmosphere in Phoenix around the team, making it to the ultimate stage? Well,

we made a trade mid season where we acquired the darker from Buffalo. And that was a big, big addition to what we already had. We had heard a scary couple of big rookies in Albany. They had to turn out to be rookie, the year, Ricky Sobers. We very quietly were making our own run in the second half of that season. So we were building momentum. And

we beat Seattle in that first series. Then we play the defending world champions. And we beat them in some game at their place. And that was very, very exciting. I remember a clay year in the game where Albin Adams intercepted a guard guard desk and went in for a flying dunk. He was a leaper. He really was six nine, 215, 18 pounds center playing against all

the big giants in the NBA. But rebound could run the block shot. It had a nice shot. But that wasn't as straight as Sarah. But he made the interception without for a flying dunk. And I do that we were in the finals. And when we got back to Phoenix later, there were 10,000 people at the airport waiting for us, which again, illustrates what a team can

do in a community when they get all excited. Teams have a chance to bring communities together. And I've experienced that a number of times with the various teams I've had. Going to Boston was a thrill to participate in the finals. The old Austin Garden was an incredible place. They did everything they could to make life miserable for you. A lot of rules with the heat with

the cold water. It was really kind of funny when you get down to it. What wasn't funny was what happened in game five. We should have won that game. We really should have with the triple overtime. Our herd needed shot, put it into triple overtime, which is called the shot hurt around the world. And that game has been looked upon as maybe the greatest game of

all time in the history of the league. If it wasn't the first or the best, it had to be second. It had to be right there at the top. Richie powers a good official in the NBA refuse to make a call that would have cost Boston game. Paul Silas called time out when they didn't have any time outs. And Richie just turned the said that avoided

yet rather than getting free toals and walking off the floor as a winner. We didn't get that. We lose the game. We lost the triple overtime and come back to Phoenix and we lose. That was a great experience. And my open anticipation was we were going to be back quite a bit in often and soon. Tip 17 years for us to get back into the finals.

That's how tough it is in the NBA. What was your vantage point for that game five? How close to the court were you sitting and did you actually see that that was not a bad non-coal that Richie powers might at the time? Yes, I did. I was sitting basically a mid court red. Our block was City the section next to me. But it was only like

six or eight feet away. Right in the court. So I had a great vantage point. Saw it all. All hell broke loose in the building. There was like a big fight that took place. It's like a hundred degrees in the building. There was surreal is what it was. The end of the second overtime. He was involved in a fight of sorts on the court with a

fan before the game even resumed. Right. There was a great documentary that was put together by I believe. Palm Leander called Sunderra la Sons, which followed that 1976. Phoenix team. You mentioned scenes at the airport. I think it was called Sky Harbor. Sky over. Correct. There was some terrific footage that shows up in that documentary of just how obsessed the fan base was in Phoenix. The

whole team. So I shared with the team was just traded like rock stars. You almost like the Beatles walking through that airport. What was it like at that time? Just to return back to Phoenix and to see how invested the fans were in your franchise? Well, it was exciting. Look, we were all young guys. There was an exciting time. But personally, I was so happy for

the fans. It's an interesting. They caught me here when you look at the attitude of fans and all people jump on the bedwagon when the team is winning. And now they jump off when they're losing. Well, it's because people could be pretty frustrated with their lot in life. If a team is winning, they want to identify what that winning product. Conversely, if they're losing or if

they're a big loser, that's why people drop off. And they're not following the team that much wealth. That's understandable. So we've had tremendous support in Phoenix for the Phoenix Sons. No question about it. They can thin. The good news is they haven't been ready down years for the Sons in May 40 years with the Sons. Now, due to time constraints, we simply can't cover all your

incredible history with the Sons. The team made the postseason every year from 1978 through 1985. However, in the mid 1980s, the franchise did hit near rock bottom with a number of allegations that were made against some current and former players. Add to that as well. There was the tragic death of 1985 draft pick Nick Vell. The Sons were in deep trouble. You managed to steer them

back and going forwards, turned it into an incredible winner. Do you mind just quickly talking about dealing with that adversity in the mid 1980s and how you steer the ship and corrective the course there, Jerry? At the AGM and the involvement I have with Grand Canyon University, I give advice to a lot of young people. And that story among others is one that I use as

an example of that is life is full of adversity. Not that it may come. You will have adversity in life. Are you deal with the adversity is the key. So I had an option to buy the team something I had negotiated, even when I was 28, 29 and it would take some adversity where ownership was ready to art company with the team. That all happened because

of that investigation, which really went nowhere by the way in terms of players being indicted or anything like that or addicted to anything. But the ownership had decided they were ready to move on. I had six weeks to put it you'll gather. I was able to do it. I paid $44 million for the franchise. The highest price ever paid for a team at that time was

$32.5. The media afterward said to be, Jerry, why would you do that? You paid so much money for this team. Why would you pay that much? And I said, well, I believe in this city. I believe in this market. That's number one. Number two, I believe in the NBA. In the future, the NBA. In number three, I believe in myself. And they have this opportunity to

do this. I know it's going to work out. Well, that was 1987 in 2004 when I sold the team. It was for over 400 million. And it was the highest price ever paid. And the state that way for seven years until the Warriors sold for about 60 million more than that. So we got above market by five. So, in my opinion for the idea of getting

us to this global market that we will be taking us to buyers and to buyers, right? So, we'll be making sales. I really can't trust that we are not solely for our peoples. But at the moment I kind of believe that in February, that mucha market culture in the end of May 2011 was popular, a very dynamic journey. In 1988, you made another difficult decision when

you traded away fan favorite Larry Nance to the Cleveland Cavaliers. In return, the sons received a rookie Kevin Johnson. You got guys like Mark West, Tyrone Corbin, and a non-en88 draft pick which became Dan Mali. Do you mind just talking through that massive deal and the impact that it had on the franchise in the years to come? Well, we decided that the best way to turn

things around was to take the best asset and see what you did get for your best asset. And Larry was that. Larry was, I thought, a terrific player. He had size 610 and a half, the grunt, jump, block some shots, we came up a score, but he was our best player and he had a great future. You mentioned all the people we got for him in

a draft pick. Well, that's why we did it because we felt we could end up with something. But I was unfinished. There was a player when the pre-agency was announced. A new piece of free agency which was unrestricted for agency. I remember being told that at the NBA owners meeting. And I kind of looked at Seattle's owner at the time. And I was thinking Tom Chambers,

well we were told what the new explanation was for unrestricted free agency. In my mind, I said, you just lost Tom Chambers. In my mind, I didn't say that to him. On the evening, admittedly that night when you could reach out. Otherwise, before that's tampering, I was on the phone. And hours later, I was in Los Angeles. And a couple hours later, I had Tom Chambers.

He was there with his agent. We struck first. I asked his agent, what do you want? He gave me the number. I said, no, here's what I'm willing to do. You got 10 minutes to give me an answer. And he responded within the 10 minutes and said, you got yourself a forward. Now another turnaround, the biggest turnaround ever from 28 wins, the 55 wins in the

conference finals. Because Chambers, Kevin Johnson, Wes Corbin, the other players that we had Marley became a great band favorite. And that was a great run with that players until we acquired Charles Whitlett. In June of 1992, you helped engineer that deal that brought Barclay from the 76s to Phoenix. Where does that rank on? Your list of achievements? I don't really think I think it was a

very big move. I think it worked out extremely well. I hated to lose Jeff Hornets. By the way, he was a second round pick in that draft. And he was a last player picked on the second row. Everyone in the NBA passed on Jeff twice. Therefore, he came in. We changed his shot. He became a terrific shooter and an excellent player. Every time you make the

deal, though, you don't ever think you're going to steal it. It usually costs you something that you really want. And you want to keep. And I didn't want to lose him. I didn't, but was willing to at the end, because we thought Barclay could get us over the home. And winning a championship, we were playing in the conference finals. We were doing well. So on and

so forth. But Barclay, we thought that we did missing peace. We didn't get there. We had a great year. That next year, we lost two. Chicago and in the finals. The next two years, I thought we could have won. Should have won. Used to knock this up two years at a roll. They were the championships. We didn't. And that was to be our best run where

we could have made me want two or three in a roll with the group that we had. Very close. You got to the press up as there and didn't quite get the win. You had the home court for the 1993 finals. So the games one and two were in Phoenix. Unfortunately, you dropped a boat. But then you went back to Chicago and won two out of

three in Chicago before that game six back in Phoenix. What was the lights of return to Chicago? 25 years or so on from when you left being an early employee of the team and just watching the finals unfold? Well, first of all, board and raise their never felt 100% that I ever left. These people in Chicago always made me feel that I was there. That I

was coming all the never over there. So. It was exciting to be playing Chicago for the championship. And there were two teams that I get versed to on the court at the same time. It was very thrilling. I'm sorry. We couldn't get the win in terms of the championship. But it wasn't meant to be. Child is partly paid tribute to you at the non a 93

old star game in Utah. By wearing the number 23. I wasn't aware of the links to it until I started researching again for this chat today. When did you become aware that he was planning to do that? And can you? Explain to our listener the importance of number 23, adding back to your playing dice. It's just the number that I love. And I always had it

as long as I was playing basketball. It was a shocker when Charles decided to do that. So he bought me totally by surprise. If you get to know Charles over the years, he's always doing things that surprise you. Okay. So you can't be prepared. No way you get a lot to quickly talk about Paul Westville. He was named the head coach of the sons for that

non a 93 season. He's links, of course, to Fendi's go back decades to the mid-90s. He played for the team for six seasons. Do you mind talking about the impact that he had on the team, particularly that non a 93 season that iconic press conference he had when you were down to the LA Lakers in the playoffs. And sadly, Paul passed away earlier this year. What

sort of impact did he have on that team and a new personally Jerry? Well, first of all, I want to go back to the trade where we traded Charlie. I was a guy for Paul Westville, Paul came to Phoenix. And for the next four or five years, he was as dominant a player at the guard position as there was in the NBA. He was first team

all NBA. I think three times. And also, 17 whites. There weren't many better guards that Paul Westville during that run. That's just something I'll never forget. He was as good as they were at that time. I did hire him. The coach we gave him an assistant coach before he came to hit coach. His first year was that first year with Barclay. We led the NBA, as

I said earlier, with the best record the entire season. And we played the Lakers one seat versus an AC in the Pita's twice. So we're down home to go into LA for the next two games. So Paul at the press conference said, we're going to go to LA. And we're going to win. We're going to come back. We're going to win here. And then we're going

to move on to the next round. He predicted that we were going to come back and win. And he stood by it. He never backed off. We all was lost in game three. I remember that. Ending of game three in LA when right down to the wire out of adversity. There's always opportunity back to what I said. You were earlier. It's still hard to believe we

lost two games in Chicago in the championship series at home. You play all year to get the whole court advantage. And again, it wasn't there to be in the finals. Five of the six games were won by the road team. So it was a really strange series in respect to that as well. Just around that time of 1993, you also underwent a complete rebrand of the

Sun's logo design new uniforms. Fantastic uniforms, which are iconic to this day. A former guest on my show, Tom O'Grady worked with you to help come up with the designs. Do you remember the rebrand process? And you also moved into a American West of Rainer as well, one of the side of the auto rain is at the time. It was as faded the arena at the

time. And we were very proud of what we were able to create architects did a great job. We wanted to build the most intimate arena ever designed. And that was referring to proximity to the floor to the port to the players. And we got it in space. Our success that year on the board and off the port was astounding. We were in the 15th market place.

We used to be in the country, citywide, size, and eyeball wise for television. And yet we lend the NBA and revenues, which was an amazing accomplishment. But it happened that one time. And then others caught up real quick to see how we did it. And larger markets had the advantage, etc. And it reminds me of an old story from the old neighborhood. It was an immigrant

by the name of Mike Kalachi. Uneducated. But wise. Took young guys under his weight, including me. And one night in front of the three star liquor store, as I grew up two doors away from that place in the Butchie ball court, how profound is that? I never forgot that. So again, advice to the old people. Reach for the stars. Reach for it. When people say, you

can't show them how you can, they will reach for the star. It's better to be there one day than they're every good there. That's a great anecdote. I love that. You were inducted into the basketball Hall of Fame in 2004. You represented by four Hall of Famers. You had Bobby Knight, Pete Newell, Wayne Emory, and the aforementioned Connie Hawkins in that speech. You mentioned that you

coached two Hall of Famers, coached against 35 Hall of Famers. And you played against 13 players and coaches who are in the Hall of Fame. How fondly do you look back on? That induction in 2004 and just overall your life in amongst basketball, Jerry? Well, let me start off with this. When I was seven, someone added me a ball and I smelled the letter smelled. And

that was the beginning of a love affair. That's last my entire lifetime. Still not over. But that's how much basketball impacted me and it's made an incredible life for me and my family. So the people I selected, you need to have a Hall of Famers. I'm not going to represent you or as many as you wish. Wayne Emory was a contemporary of mine. I wanted him.

Connie Hawkins was the player that we described before Pete Newell probably had a sputchute back that the basketball wise at wisdom. He was a coach of an Olympic team. He was a coach of a team that won the NCAA's hit. Great. And he was a great player for his wisdom. Bobby Knight was at contemporary. We played against each other. He was at Ohio State when I

was at Illinois competitors. And contemporaries as we kind of moved on after our college careers. He was coaching. He took me a little while to get into the NBA. But we were very close. Each of the people that I had had an influence on my life. And I wanted to be part of it for all of us. Your stories about the football team. The speeches that

are made at the Hall of Famers. You don't forget where you started. You don't forget where you came from. Thank the people who helped you get to where you bat. Not that anyone is looking to go to the Hall of Fame. You don't think about anything like that. You do the best job you can as a player, as a coach, as a contributor. There are many

ways to contribute to the game and success. I love the Hall of Fame. I'm still chairman of the Hall of Fame. I'm proud of what we've done with the reliability and new technology. It's gamebusters. It's a beautiful place to make forage. People that go to Springfield, Massachusetts. They ever get the opportunity and sit. In 2005, you were named the managing director of USA Basketball. Though we

don't have the time now to cover your romantic contributions to Team USA. I will link to a great podcast episode where you talked about that incredible rebuild that you were responsible for. What do you think about the world before and bringing the USI back to the middle of the wings? Is there anything you would like to touch on from that period with the USI basketball before

we wrap things up, Jerry? Well, you could do a lot of things represented your city, your state. But when you're representing the country. I was asked to do it. I loved every second of it. We won some world championships along the way also. I'm very proud of all the players who made it possible. Is there a five at my my my goal from those? Tom's that

you've mentioned with USI basketball. Can you narrow down to one? Well, every one of those Olympics were different. The first one in08. We were the redeemed team after a badly. They had performed in 04. Athens, Greece, the moment where the medals were being awarded. The flag was being raised. The star spangled banner was being played for all of us. Here's what through my mind. Very few

people have an opportunity to have a dream. Watch it. For Phil and get to the desired result. All in that happened. All in that moment. And it was a great moment. Incredible memories there. I will link to that podcast episode where you're going to write depth about how to kind of Bayer's fascinating. Listen, just on the back of that previous question, basketball digest had a regular

feature, which was called the game. I'll never forget. Now, is there a game from your career, either as a player, a coach, an executive that stands out more than any other? Well, it has to be game five and me and buster the triple over time game. How could I pick any other game when it's considered being the greatest game of all time? Now, Jerry, thank you

so much for making yourself available today. And I want to quickly thank a great friend of the show, Fat Leaver, who helped me connect with you. And also another Associate of yours, Jennifer Gray, who helped us connect with you today as well. Thanks for your time. And I wish you continued success and good health. We welcome you at a radio. Thanks for listening. I welcome your

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This podcast is a must listen for basketball junkies like me. I can't get enough of the behind the scenes stories from NBA insiders. Each new episode is eagerly anticipated. Great job as usual. Adam Cheers. Thank you, Michael. I really appreciate the support and thanks for leaving that review. Worldwide, the show has 185 ratings on Apple podcasts with an average of 4.9 stars with 100. Yes, 100

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