Danny Manning: NCAA Champion, NBA All-Star and Six

dunk the basketball, the whole goal would just shake. And just shake her for the next five minutes if you're sitting on the back of the goal. And I thought that was a pretty cool, weird experience, so to speak. Like, well, I'm not saying it, but you realize, well, he's bringing that much force and that much power through the rim. It was a lot of fun to

look back on it. Then you are in our spirit right now. You're talking in the ABA basketball. You're talking great teams, you're talking great individual players. Takes it off and there's number 23 and of course Johnny goes nuts. I just tried to go up there and play my game. I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't like anybody. I'm not a deep person. Grant,

you made the pass. Yes. You catch the ball. Yes. All the stars are aligned and all the muscles fall at the right time. And I was able to get off the ground and throw one damn. I was saving that as a surprise for you. And now introducing your host for in all airness at a Ryan. Welcome to Episode 115. Thanks for joining me. We decided to

welcome NCAA champion, multiple all star and NBA six man of the year, Danny Manning to the show. This is a wide ranging conversation about Danny's life in basketball. We cover lots of topics including his formative years of playing hoops and his family's move to Kansas where he starred in college and ultimately was selected. First overall pick of the 1988 NBA draft. We even venture briefly into

dessert food and body art of all things. Plus I quiz Danny on one play from his career to see how quickly he can recall it. It's an insightful discussion covering his remarkable journey of perseverance, determination and achievement. A big thanks also to Justin Bowman for making this chat happen. The conversation was recorded just before Christmas 2020. Towards the end of the episode, I'll share another great

podcast review. If you can spare a moment or two, please add your review via your listening app. If you're interested in watching this video, please subscribe to my channel. Maybe most appreciated. Show notes for this episode and access to a huge archive of past episodes are available at inallannis.com. Now onto the show. My guests today was one of the most highly touted freshmen to play at

Kansas since none other than Wilk Chamberlain. He led the J hooks to the NCAA Championship in 1988 before being selected number one pick of that year's NBA draft. He's a two time all star and won the NCAA championship. I'm the six man of the year award in 1998. Danny Manning, thanks for joining me. Thank you for having me. Looking forward to visiting. Thanks again for making

time to speak with me today. I just love to briefly start off by talking about your late father, Ed Manning. He was drafted out of Jackson State University and played for nine seasons in the pros for which were the NBA and five in the ABA. I read that you regularly attended your dad's practices and games when you're a youngster. What are a few memories you do

have from those formative years? Danny. For me, the memories I have on my father played professional basketball. I remember him when he played for the New York Nets and the ABA, the Red, White and Blue Ball and Julius Irving was one of the main stays on that particular team and going to practices and sitting on the backstop. And this is before they had the breakaway rims.

And so when Dr. J would dunk the basketball, the whole goal would just shake and just shake her for the next five minutes if you're sitting on the back of the goal. And I thought that was a great idea. It was a pretty cool, weird experience, so to speak. Like, well, I'm not saying, but you realize, well, he's bringing that much force and that much power

through the rim. It was a lot of fun to look back on it. For me, I had a lot of autographs going up. The ABA did a great job of marketing and they always had some type of item to be cybers of basketball or programs and things of that nature. And I remember going and getting autographs from Billy Cunningham, Matt Calvin, Julius Irving, Super John. I

was a Williams and just a dumb kid. I don't know what I did with those. I remember I used to take the basketballs out and play with them because I wanted to go shoot hooks and I was playing off an autograph ball that Julius Irving, Dr. J, his autograph, fought it. And I just didn't register for me. For me, it was those moments. And it kind

of comes back full circle for me as a player because once I got to the NBA, whenever there was an all-star game or there was an NBA function, I would always be able to cross pass with somebody who, Danny, I remember you when you were this tall, you had no interest in the game of basketball. And to see those guys and to hear them talk about

seeing me when I was a youngster, it's kind of cool. So those are the memories that I had. I'm probably the biggest, most fond memory I have was Team barbecue with the Nets team and all the kids were lining up to take all the players and their food. And somehow I got tasked with giving Dr. J his plate of food. So that was kind of cool.

I got to deliver Dr. J's barbecue to him and our team get together. That's fantastic. I'd be probably too nervous. I'd have the plate and I'd be shaking. I'm handing the plate. I'm sure I was. I'm sure I was. Just in terms of your dad's run with Carolina Cougars in two of his three seasons. He was coached by future Hall of Famer Larry Brown. And that's

a gentleman who's known. Obviously had strong links to your family for many decades since then. Do you recall when you first met Larry as a youngster and obviously you'd reconnect in your high school years and I'll get to that shortly? I was coached Brown, the best coach I've ever played for, made me a better person, made me a better player. But he was still doing things

when he coached the Cougars that he was doing when he coached us at Kansas. And he was doing when he was coaching an NBA. He's a teacher. He's showing you how to hold the ball. He's showing you how to pass the ball when you're a certain age or you're really young. He's telling you the different things that you need to be able to do to make

yourself a better player. And so for me, he was always a teacher. Because he helped prepare me not only for life, but for basketball after we left Kansas. Coach Brown is somebody that when he got to coach and job at Kansas reached out to my father and hired my dad as an assistant coach. At the time, my father had recently retired from the NBA was driving

a truck, was doing some construction work. And it was also a part time assistant at North Carolina, A and T with Jean Little's who played with my dad on the Carolina Cougars as well. And so Coach Brown offered my dad a great opportunity. And so I was really impressed with history. It was a challenging move because we moved days before the start of my senior year

in high school. But once I got to Lawrence Kansas, the people were wonderful. I consider that home now, especially that area. And met my wife. Have great teammates in college. You want a championship? We graduated. Our kids graduated from Kansas as well. Taylor and Evan. And so for me, it's. It's been a very special place and very grateful to have those experience. I didn't know a

lot about your high school career. I knew you're an outstanding talent at a young age. But in the end, I was a little bit more mature. I was a little bit more mature. I was a little bit more mature. I was a little bit mature. I was a little bit mature. I was a little bit mature. I was a little bit mature. I was a little

bit mature. I was a little bit mature. I was a little bit mature. I was a little bit mature. I was a little bit mature in 1983 as a junior. You led your page pirates to an undefeated 26 and O season. And won the class for a high school title. Entering that final from what I've read you, average almost 20 points, 10 rebounds, four assists and

four blocks per game. And you had nine end points in the championship game. That was apparently in front of more than 10,000 fans at Greensboro Coliseum. How did it feel to win that high school title playing in what I believe would have been the same arena that your dad played? It was a surreal feeling. It was a lot of fun. Our page pirates team, we were

really good. We have guys that play college basketball. Mike Foster went to South Carolina. John Newman went to James Madison. We have guys that were great football players. Hey, with Jeffries went to NC State and played in NFL for a long time with the Houston Oilers. Todd Ellis was a big time quarterback. Stafford Moser was big time quarterbacks in those guys went to South Carolina and

Wake Forest. And we had a really, really talented team. We had a bunch of guys that got along who liked each other. And my 12 more year, we didn't fare as well as we wanted. There was kind of a factor of bond made with guys coming back. So we're going to make sure we do whatever we can to give ourselves a chance to be successful and

pay high school at that time. And still presently, we're a sports joker, not just to be honest with you. When so our football team was playing for the State Champions League. We were going to be a big time. We were having a good partnership with the coaches and we didn't have everybody in our roster. We were still able to win games because our talent was so

good. We had a lot of guys that bond green who didn't start for us. was probably our 6 men, Churchill Brown, David Brockman. we had a bunch of guys that got really good basketball players that we were able to hold out in the Ford until our football players joined us. with the J-Hawks at a press conference inside Kansas as Alan Fieldhouse in September. Was the press

conference rather low key or was there overwhelming celebration for the fact that you'd signed on to play with Kansas? I don't even remember that. I don't even remember that. I didn't know anything about the history of Kansas. Once my father started working there, he was bringing back different books and programs and media guides. I started reading and it's like, we'll Chamberlain, Georgia White, Wantsley. These guys'

names that I knew of because I followed them professionally to know that they played there. You talk about Fog Allen. The list goes on and on. I fell in love with the history and tradition of the program first and foremost. From there, I go into those games of the senior in high school and seeing a support and walking into Alan Fieldhouse and feeling the energy, feeling

the youth. The uniqueness of that facility, of that venue, was something that I wanted to be a part of. I've got the ability to access some newspaper archives to see what I could find. I found some fascinating tidbits about your career and some of the things I hope to ask you about as we chat today. So it might be testing your memory banks down here. I'm

not sure how we're going. I'm sorry if I can't go back that far. No, no, not at all. We'll see how we go. I just read this morning just before we connected today that your first game with Lawrence High School, you had an outstanding performance. That was 25 points, 11 rebounds, nine blocks, six deals and two assists. Do you remember the first time you laced it

up when you played at Lawrence High School? I don't remember that, but I remember losing. I think our second game of the year to wine doubt high school, who was a perennial powerhouse in Kansas, who eventually we lost them again in the state championship my senior year. For me, moving from North Carolina to Kansas, told you it was kind of a traumatic experience, kind of a

bang, bang. This is what's going on. This was best for our family. This is the decision that we made. So for me, getting on the court was just therapy. We've gone through our preseason conditioning and did all of our drills and going to the rec center and the community building is what they call it the Lawrence Kansas and playing pickup basketball with the older guys in

town, trying to help get the Lawrence High School team together because at that time we only had one high school in the town. So there was a lot of pride in more time from former players and former alumni. And so for me, just being able to get back on up the court was something I was very thankful for and really enjoyed. And the crowd support was

tremendous. Now I'll hope you did touch on a few topics that you don't often get asked about. One particularly I'm fascinated in in early April of 1984. You were just one of two high school players along with Delray Brooks to get invites from Indiana Housiast coach Bob Knight to participate in the US Olympic trials. You joined I think 70 other college players all playing for a

spot on that 12-man roster at Team Europe. I was a for the games in Los Angeles. How important was that experience in terms of developing your game and what was it like to mix with a who's who of college talent at that time? I knew it was a unique opportunity. Going into it Delray Brooks and I were only two high school kids invited to the tryouts

and Delray was going to be an incoming freshman at Indiana with coach Knight. And so for me, I just wanted to go out and play. And Charlotte was deserving of an in-bite, not necessarily making the team because my first couple of days, I don't think I did very well. I think I picked it up after that, but it'll be out on the court and you look

out there and for me, I was playing a lot of different positions. And so I could match up with Michael Jordan. And then the next game is Charles Barkley. And then the next game is Carl Malone. Then the next game is Vern Fleming. Then the next game is Joe Klein or John Conquette. And it's just like, wow, these are guys that I'm following. I'm following in

the papers reading their box scores. See how many points they scored, how many rebounds they get and seeing how beloved they are for their respective universities. And so for me, it was it was a fun experience in that regard. Disappointing I didn't make the team, but I didn't deserve to make that team. Nonetheless, I thought it was a great experience for me and it helped prepare

me for basketball down the line. Just an incredible array of talent of guys that you were playing with at that time that went on to obviously be your contemporary. When it got to the next level in college and obviously the NBA, incredible. Speaking of your college seasons, your freshman year, your average almost 15 points of game. And you were named the big eight new camera of

the year, steering the J hooks to 26 and eight record. And you progress to the second round of the 1985 NCAA tournament. What do you remember most about that freshman season and your first trip to the big dance? My freshman year at Kansas was a lot of fun. I just want to go play. I just want to go help my team. I wanted to obviously you

want to have a level of success, but I also wanted to make sure that I was doing things and make my teammates better. In that team, my freshman year, we had some upperclassmen, Calvin Thompson, Ron Kellogg, Tad Boyle, those guys were the elder statesmen of that team. And Mark Turgeon was on that team as well, who's coaching at Maryland. And I was like, well, for me,

it was just to come in and try to fit in. We had a really unselfish team. I think at one point, all of our starters might have had close to 100 assists throughout the year. I mean, it's because we shared the basketball. It was just a good group to be around. And we're really balanced. And, you know, that was probably one of the first teams that

Coach Brown had that had his markings all over it in terms of recruitment and guys being in the system and playing for him and understanding what he wanted. You talk about sharing the ball there. And getting instilled into your game, you're such an unselfish player throughout your whole career when you really could have dominated and been an offensive force just yourself. But you always about getting

players involved. Where do you think that tricers back to in terms of when you were learning the game? For me, learning the past, the basketball was a right of passage in growing up and playing with older players. When you play with older players, they bring you on. The older guys get all the shots. You can bring it up the court. You pass them. You're not supposed

to shoot. So I had a bunch of older guys that I was playing with that made sure I understood that. And then also for me, I got a chance to see my father play professional basketball. My father was not a a start, if you will. He was a gentleman. He was a glue guy. He had to do all the little things to maintain his spot on

the roster where there's playing defense, getting rebound, setting pick, diving on the floor, getting the ball to the right guys at the right time. And so I started to appreciate and have a value for that type of mentality at a very early age. And that's how my father taught me how to play the game. And so from there, it just trickled down. I mean, I had

great coaches in high school, coach Johnson, who coached me in junior, one of my junior highs, coached mentally, coached me another junior high. I mean, I get the high school and I get coached by the legendary Mac Morris and North Carolina that I moved to Kansas and get coached by a great man and terrific guy in Ted Juno. And I was very lucky in the sense

that they all preach the same thing. They all preach being unselfish. And what can you do to make your team make? I think that's a great way to make your team reach the highest point. And so for me, I look back on all those times and I realized that I was very fortunate with the coaches that I had growing up once I started playing school ball.

So I second team all American and you're named the big eight player of the year. So a tremendous season. What's maybe the most memorable moment from that second year in college if one stands out? The moments for me that stand out the most my sophomore year in 1986. Obviously going to the final four was something that all players want to be a part of. And so

very fortunate to have that experience. But for me, it was more of a motivating factor moving forward. Because I played terrible. I didn't have a good game when we lost to Duke. Now all that credit goes to Duke. I mean, they they were much more mature physical team. And they took me out of the ballgame. Mark Allery, Jay Billis, those older, older guys put it on

me. So to speak in terms of good aggressive physical style of play and did not let me get comfortable. And I didn't play well in my mind. We didn't win the game because I didn't play well. And so that was motivation for me moving forward. As a college basketball player, Johnny Dawkins had I think 24 points in that game for Duke. Yeah, she did. Your J

Hawks only lost by four points. The game prior to that when you beat North Carolina State, the great Jim Valvano had a fantastic quote, which was, it would be better if we could play without 17,000 people yelling rock chalk, J Hawke, whatever that means. I still don't know what the hell it means, but it works is what his quote was. We'll get to the 88 championship

and that run shortly. But what what's your favorite thing about that? That's what it brings to mind when you think about the the vocal support that the J Hawks enjoyed and still do to this day. As former players plan at Kansas, we're all spoiled by the amount of love and support that we get playing for the J Hawks, particularly when you play at home, it's special.

It's unique. And everybody can say about their own venue, but there's something a little bit different about walking into Allen Fieldhouse on a Saturday afternoon. And I've got to go and just he say it's more like it's just what you guys are getting into and think like, you're just making my scoring point. I was like, what is your goal? You're like, what you take it with,

but just that some of the folks that were playing coaches and players, we don't always feel that way. I was looking at your record during the 1987 NCAA tournament. And in a second round game, it was a four point win against Missouri State. You had a career high 42 points, 16 of 26 from the field. How did it feel to score that many points in such

a vital game? You'd go on to meet Georgetown and some future NBA players, including Reggie Williams for one, who had a fantastic game time later in the tournament. Playing up against Missouri State, I mean, there was a level of familiarity with them just because they're in a neighboring state. And Kansas didn't like Missouri. There's no love loss there between those two states. But I remember my

teammates doing a terrific job with getting me the basketball. I called a hot hand and they continued to come to me. It was just a lot of fun. I believe was coach Spoon hours team. And coach Spoon hours was a terrific coach and one of the better coaches in college. He was basketball and he believed in hard-nosed man-to-man type of defense. And that was primarily, I

think, the type of defense that we faced against them, the majority of that game. And my teammates, I consider a great job of finding me in spots. And I call a hot hand and was fortunate to make a few shots. Just a few. Now, something I wasn't familiar with was the 1987 Pan American Games that were held in Indianapolis. This is just prior to your senior

season. You were coached by Louisville. Louisville's Denny Crumb and your teammates included none other than David Robinson, who was the number one pick in the 87 draft. You had guys like Purpose Allison, Poo Richardson, Willie Anderson and Rex Chapman to name just a handful. You won the first six games of the tournament by more than 25 points, a contest. And then you ended up meeting Brazil

in the goal medal game. And they stunned the US and won by five points. The great Oscar Smith, torched the US with 46 points. You led the US in scoring at almost 15 a game. How difficult was it to deal with that loss given that Team USA were overwhelming favourites, but also at the same time, how was the experience of playing for Team USA on home

soil? It was really ambitious. That was well coached and they had the best player on the court. Oscar Smith, he was the best player on the court and he willed his team to win. And they were mature. They had some experience about them. They had a rugged quality about them as well. The majority of us were college kids that were still trying to figure it out.

Thought we still should have won, but we didn't. But the reason we didn't win is because Brazil was better and Oscar Smith was the best player on the court. I mean, he had to say one guy dominated the game, but you look at the box score and you go back and watch that game. That's exactly what he did. That's why he's the Hall of Famer. I

think you guys were leading at the half, but Brazil came back and he caught fire and made an incredible number of three points shots. Let's talk about some more happier times. Are your senior season in Kansas? How about that? It was one for the ages. And I'll just quickly set the scene for our listener, just indulge me for a moment. You open the season with two

losses and then one six straight. You lost one and then one three in a row. You then dropped five straight games before you reordered off five game win streak. And then you ended the regular season with two losses and three wins. So you were 17 and 10 overall. You then lost to Kansas State in the semifinals of the big eight tournament, which meant that you were

actually waiting for an at large bid to make and play in the tournament to begin with. You're also plagued with some injuries throughout that season. So quite tumultuous, some ups and downs. How confident would you be? I'm worried that the J-OX would be invited to the big dance, not winning the actual conference tournament. Well, we were hoping we found question that we were going to get

a bid in 1988 backtrack for us. We started the season out and there was some publication that had as a preseason number one team. And then we have some injuries. We have some players that coach Brown didn't feel fit on our team. And so those guys were removed from the team. We added a couple football players and Clip Noir who was in all state player in

Kansas, in high school, in Marvin Maddox. He was in all state player in California. We came in and gave us some some toughness and some more depth on our team. And thing just started to click for us. We were losing close games or getting beat pretty handily. And coach Brown would come in the locker room. He would be upset. He would be disappointed. But there was

always this glimmer of we're right there. We just got to tighten up a couple of things. And if we do that, then we're going to take off. And he can do that. We continue to preach that message to us and the guys on the team. We we bought into that. We believe that we didn't care who received the attention. We just wanted to be successful and

win games. You didn't want to let your teammates down. We weren't the most talented team. But we were the best team because we played well together. We sacrificed for one another and things worked out well for us at the end. You had a remarkable tournament. You scored no less than 20 points per game on the weight of the championship. And in order you disposed of Xavier

Murray State Vanderbilt, Kay State, Duke, and ultimately Oklahoma. And in that final game, you saved the best for last 31 points, 18 rebounds, five steals and two blocks. And you also made some clutch free throws in the final moments of the game. As you held on for an 83 to 79 win against Oklahoma, that closed out your college career. Oklahoma actually defeated you twice during the

regular season. So all that said, what do you remember most fondly about that final game? And do you often? Light it back up and check it out on TV and just really leave some of those moments. I've only watched that game, Paul V. In its entirety, maybe two times. One time was with my team, Maysaid of reunion. For me, looking back, playing Oklahoma, they were coached

by the late great Billy Thompson. He had talented teams, Stacy King, Mookie Blaylock, Harvey Grant. Those were the guys that led the way for that team, but they were so talented throughout the rest of their roster. And the level of familiarity we have of Oklahoma was comforting for us from the standpoint of that we played them in the championship game. The game before that, we played

Duke and Duke at Beatness earlier in the year. To get to the final four, we had to beat Kay State, who beatness, who snapped our home court winning streak that year. So there were a lot of levels of comfort that we had playing up against those teams. In the sense of when the game was over, we'd always go back in the coach rounds office the next

day and watch the game. And he would break the game. It would be tedious and it would be frustrating and it would be long. It could be embarrassing because of how you play. It was sort of things that you did, but we got better for him. And so each time that we lost the game, we played a game. We were watching tape and say, well, how

can we get better? And we knew if we corrected some mistakes and did a better job of taking care of the basketball, executing, contesting shots and making multiple effort plays that will give ourselves a chance to be successful against anybody that we played up against. And that was kind of how the run ended for us. But for us, I mean, we got a chance to play

for the national championship 30 minutes away from our campus. The open practice, the days leading up to that. There was jam packed for an open practice. We're just going to run up and down the court and get up from shots and get a feel for the venue. So that was one of the best experiences we probably ever had as basketball players in college when you talk

about playing for a national championship on the stage of the final four 30 minutes away from the campus. You're hearing you talk about it. So I can only imagine how it must feel for you. You are also named the most outstanding player. You are the college player of the year in 1988. You left the J Hawks with averages of 20.1 points, 8.1 rebounds, 2.3 assists, almost

two steals a more than one block per game. I looked at the Kansas record books yesterday. You started all but one of your 147 games. And you rank first all-time in career scoring at almost 3000 points. And you lead the school in rebounding overall. So just some remarkable stats there to exit the school. At this stage in 1988, the NBA draft was less than three months

away. How were you preparing for the transition to the next level? Well, it's also taking into account that the Olympics in Seoul were not too far removed either. Well, for us, the 1988 season ended for me. It was kind of a whirlwind. There's a lot of attention and notoriety placed on your team. When you went a national championship, we were thankful to have and enjoyed those

opportunities. But also, NBA was probably a distant thought process away to be honest with you. Because we were playing for Coach John Thompson during the Olympics. Olympic trials and things of that nature. And so that was where your mind was at. Now, there were some teammates of mine on the Olympic team that throughout the course of our time together representing USA on the Olympic team playing

for Coach Thompson that some of these guys started starting their NBA contracts. I didn't have that luxury. The owner of the clippers at the time was Donald Sterling. And he was for lack of agitiv. I'll just say he was a unique individual. And so we didn't come to a contract agreement actually until the day before the start of the NBA season and the NBA commissioner's turn

had to step in and make it happen. Going back to the Olympic team, that was our focus. He was getting prepared to go represent our country and want to go metal. And little did we know that we would be able to do that. And it would be the last amateur team to represent the US because we got beat by a very, very talented team that had

subonus. Not a completely healthy subonus, but a really good subonus. Marshall onus and they had vocal and they had some really talented players. So we got beat by a much more experienced team, if you will. I really appreciate you opening up. And now some of these topics out ones that you'd like to reflect on for too long and Donald Sterling, probably the less. Just quickly on

those Olympics, it was in late September of 88, you stormed to a six and I record before being upset by the Soviet Union team. But rather than focus on that loss, I'll change things up a bit. Your final game at the Olympics was against my home country of Australia. You held on for a tight 29 point win over the Aussies. And took over the bronze medals.

I'm curious. How did the late great John Thompson help you and the team put that disappointment of bronze into perspective there? And what sort of impact did John Thompson have on your career at that time and even your life going forwards? You know, Coach Thompson displayed great deal leadership. You know, obviously we were disappointed that we weren't competing for the gold medal or winning the gold

medal. But after the game, we go back to our dorms or head quarters, if you will. And it's okay, we have to turn the page. What are we going to do? We have an opportunity to represent our country in one day, win a medal. It's not the medal we want it, but we can definitely. Add to the medal total for our country. That was a thought

process and that was a mindset and going out into that game. We were disappointed. We were mad. We were pissed. There were a lot of different emotions that we're running through us. But the only thing that we could do with that point in time was whatever we could to help our team be successful playing against Australians. We bounced back enough to get a win and win

the bronze medal at the Olympics. And that's not the gold at hand. We were disappointed with that. But we were also proud to represent our country in one of metal. There's very few people that can say they have an Olympic medal of any gold silver or bronze. And still a fantastic achievement for a team comprised fully of amateurs as well. It must be said to you're

playing against professional players across the world at that time. We like to say we paved the way for dream team. That's what we did. The 88 Olympic team paved the way for the dream team. What was the like to play with a young David Robinson. Obviously he out to serve his his Navy tenure. And then came into the NBA a few years after. But the impact

he had, the incredible skill set he had like yourself, about a dribble the ball and be agile up and down the court. Can you just describe for a moment being alongside the admiral at that time of his career? David, but his commitment to the military and honoring that commitment and know his body. I mean, if you go back and you look at David's body, seems like

he was doing push-ups all the time. He was chiseled. He could run. He could jump. He could shoot. He could pass. And I was just really impressed with what he was able to do out on the court. The size that he was. He was a seven footer. But David had a narrow frame on him at the time. And to still be able to hold post-possisting. Let's

just go on. And then the first quarter was and how developed he was physically. The things that he could do. The timing on blocking shots or catching logs or step down the perimeter and make it shots or dribble moves on the perimeter. And then of course his footwork in the post. He was phenomenal basketball player. And if you're really lucky and fortunate to have the opportunity

of playing with him and calling a team at one point. Great to hear you talk about it. What was likely going through your mind from the moment that Commissioner Stern called your name until you walked up on stage and was shaking his hand? Do you remember the emotions that were going through you? That do remember the emotions that I was experiencing the night of the draft.

Before the draft, though, during the lottery process, when the clippers won the lottery, they held up a man named Jersey. We assumed that I was going to be their pick. You don't know when to actually hear your name. And so for me, that was a moment in time where I'm looking back on it. And I go to New York. I didn't want anybody to go with

me. I didn't take my parents. I didn't take my at the time girlfriend who's now my wife. I just went with my agent. And I just wanted to have a me moment. We sit in a green room and they call your name out and fortunate and blessed to have that experience. And then we would get a nice dinner. And that was just kind of a moment

of wow. I've been very fortunate. I've been very blessed to get to this point. And I know that moving forward, there's a target on your back. We're here to number one pick, so to speak. But I realize that. Not just me, but everybody on the Olympic team had a target on their back because our exhibition games were against NBA teams, NBA all-star teams that they put

together to different parts of the country that we would play. And so we got challenged physically by a lot of different players. They wanted to see what we were about as players. And we were able to answer the call. And with those guys know that I know I'm a rookie. I know I'm a young kid, but I want to compete. I'm going to compete. And so

that was a great experience for a Seagway and into our professional career. Because we bumped heads with some of the best players in the NBA three, four months ago, getting ready for the Olympics. That night for me was something I'm very proud of. I'm very fortunate. A lot of gratitude towards my teammates. Coach Brown. Obviously, my father for introducing me to the game and all the

people that helped push me, helped prod me to get there. Whether it was a teacher, whether it was a coach, whether it was a baseball coach or a football coach, or an administrator of a principal, or a guidance counselor or a library. Just the moment of being able to in my own way say thank you. I really appreciate what you did to help push and pull

me along the way. It's great to hear your library on this, Danny. Thanks so much for sharing your memories. You mentioned I was pretty Olympian. I was going to be exhibition games there. I wasn't going to touch on them because I thought you can't cover everything you've done throughout your career. But I know that you play a game in Charlotte, I believe, versus the NBA guys.

And obviously being in North Carolina from where you want, once playing back in your earlier days in high school, etc. What was that like to go back and take them on in Charlotte, for example. That game was a lot of fun from the standpoint of this. We moved to Lawrence, Kansas. They didn't have Krispy Kreme donuts in Lawrence, Kansas or in Kansas City. And so I

was like, I'm going to go back to the NBA. We going back to Charlotte. It's been a while now. So I get a chance to get some Krispy Kreme donuts. I was all excited about that. That was one of the biggest, biggest highlights of going back to Charlotte for me was, hey, Krispy Kreme donuts. You know, I'm looking forward to this. It was also, I believe

that was the game where they opened up their new arena. And the scoreboard fell earlier in the day. You know, that was kind of a, whoa, one of those, woo, we that could have been disastrous. But that just goes into the memory bank. But it was a lot of fun to go back and to play in North Carolina. And it actually helped prepare me for my

college career, going back and playing NC State and Greensboro and playing at NC State. It was a good experience for me. You mentioned that scoreboard collapse there. There's some incredible photos of that in some of the newspapers I actually had a look at ahead about chat today. And I've had Kelly Chappucca on the show quite a few years ago. And he was a Charlotte Hornet original

member. I did ask him briefly about that exhibition series. He was playing for the NBA team quite scary that earlier in the day that that happened. And thank goodness. No one was actually on the court at the time could have been obviously very, very serious. Just in relation to your NBA career, you played five full seasons with the LA Clippers. How jarring was it to transition

from living in Kansas to your new way of life as a number one? And draft pick living in Los Angeles of all places? The transition from going from a college player to a pro player, going from Lawrence, Kansas to LA was extremely terrifying. Just a terrifying experience. Just in the sense of life, the different things that you get a chance to experience. Now LA is one

of my favorite cities ever to this day. But moving out there, not knowing what was going on, not knowing how to navigate, not knowing how to get to places. There was terrible. And then on top of that, I'm at a point where I'm comfortably being able to live and have some money in my pocket. And so having to make decisions on what type of house to

buy, what type of card to buy. How do you invest your money? How do you? There were so many different things. I'm very thankful. I had a great agent when I started out. His name was Ron Grinker, who passed away. But Ron represented my father. And so Ron was family. I knew Ron all my life. And so having him help navigate the NBA wardage was something

that was extremely beneficial to me and very thankful for. I did not know that he had links going back that far. Ron Grinker. That's incredible. I actually had a question I've planned to ask you about Ron a bit later. Now in your rookie season, the Clippers went 21 and 61. This is the non-in-89 campaign. You missed the first four games of the season negotiating your contract.

Your NBA debut was the team's home opener against the Phoenix Suns. And in that game, you had 12 points. It was an overtime win over the Suns. Eddie Johnson went off and scored 45. And he scored those on me. Eddie's a former guest of the show. He did talk about that particular performance, if Mary Sturfs. What do you remember of your pro debut finally getting to

play and actually just stepping on the court for the Clippers? I remember. I think Charles Smith, we were teammates on the Olympic team through me and Aliyu, but I stuck in between the backboard in the room. One of my first shot attempts in the NBA. You could just hear the fans like, what's going on here? And then trying to guard Eddie Johnson. I mean, he had

guys, Mark West, great guy, long time NBA center, huge dude in college. You can navigate screen from some of the big guys a little bit better than I could at that professional level. But they weren't as big and strong as some of those guys. And so Eddie Johnson is one of the better scores ever playing the NBA, especially doing that arrow. We were there. And he

was just, I call it bedding. He vetted me. If I went, I would have been a big fan of him. I'm trying to get over the pick. He, he would bump fade and fall out to the corner. If I ran his footsteps, he would type curl. And so it was just a learning experience. I'm saying myself, I can't guard this guy. What's going on? I got

to get better. This, this is what the NBA is like every night. Oh my gosh. I'm in trouble. So I was about waking me to the NBA and just trying to, from that point forward, you want to become a student of the game. You want to have a, a book in your head of all the guys that you play up against that you compete. Up against.

And that was my moment of saying, Hey, we got to figure some things out to be able to compete at this level. I love this story. Thanks so much for sharing them with us. Unfortunately, your world, we turned upside down barely two months later. When you suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament in your right knee, you know, early January of 1989, it was a game at

Milwaukee. Initially, it was thought to be a hyper extension. However, the worst fears were soon realized. And you were operated on about 10 days later. At the time, injuries like that were considered to be career threatening to say the least, what advice did your doctor, who I believe was Steven Lombardo, what did he offer in terms of the rehab that was ahead and your chances of

returning to as close to, if not 100% health on court again. Before we get to Dr. Lombardo, for me, going through that injury, I've been had a chance to visit with a lot of different doctors. And the word was career threatening. And that was kind of a traumatic piece. And so for me, my, the conversation with Dr. Lombardo was not like any other conversation that haven't

finished the doctors. Dr. Lombardo told me, Danny, this is what I can do. This is how I can repair the graph. The graph will be strong. The graph will be better than ever. But this is what you have to do to be able to get back out on the court and play. And it doesn't matter how well of a surgery, I perform, if you're not going

to be dedicated and committed to this rehab, there'll be a hard for you to play again. And so for me, when, when, when, when I heard that from him, it was like, well, you do your part and I'm going to do my part. And for me, Dr. Lombardo is a God sin. I blew my knee out three times throughout the course of my NBA career. And

he did every surgery. And I mean, that's one of the things that I'm most proud about of my NBA career has been able to bounce back from three ACLs during a 15 year NBA career. Very fortunate, very blessed. But I have Dr. Lombardo, like I mentioned, Clive Brewster was a master therapist, Johnny Doyle, Thomas Archie, Carl Holton, and Clive Bore, who became my personal trainer and

therapist. So I had a lot of great people in my corner, along with my family waking up every day, my wife was their support of my kids. As I got to the second and third ACL were around and just being around them every day, provided great inspiration and motivation. Incredibly tough times and it's a person here and pushed through and forwards the career that you did.

Fantastic stuff to say the least. Just for some context on that short and rookie season that you had in the five games before the injury, you are able to do it. So I was averaging 21 points, eight rebounds and three assist a game. So some really great numbers. Just prior to that terrible injury taking place. Two weeks after you were injured or they're about the coach

at the time, Gene Xu was replaced by Don Casey, who's another former guest of the show Don Casey. How is your relationship with Don as you were recovering from surgery and eventually I'm a return to the court later that year? But that point time going through that surgery, the medical advances. I was isolated from the team from time to time. I would show up on game

days. That's right. I got to a point of being comfortable walking and my therapist released me to be able to go and visit and see the games. And so for me, I was kind of quarantined a little bit if you will during my early stages of rehab. But coach Casey was somebody that he was there. When I first got there and I liked him. I thought

he was really creative. He has a nickname of having to do a lot of things. Zone defenses. So creative in that aspect. But I'm going to give you a little tidbit on Gene Xu. Sure. Gene Xu was my father's first coach and NBA as well. And he was my first coach. Wow. I didn't ask you pick up on that. That first practice. We've been a play

my first game. Then the next day we practice. I get introduced to the NBA. This is my first practice. So I asked one of the guys on the team. Hey, what do I do on this particular play coach called? He tells me what to do. Coach calls us play. We go out there. And I do what I got. And I told me and it was completely

wrong. So coaches like, man, and what are you doing at that point in time? You're saying, my bad coach, I got to learn the plays. I got to get better. I'm sorry. Come back to the side. And I go, man, why'd you tell me to do that? If you know when right. The guy looks at me because I'm trying to make the team. And I'm saying

to myself, wow, this is how this works. All right. Let me let me figure this out now. So that was that was my first practice in the NBA. And then from there, you understand that it's it's a business. You know, you run across a lot of great owners and great coaches. And great personnel, but you also run across some people that are in a way selfish

because of things that they say, how they express themselves, but they're also just trying to provide for their families also. I don't want to throw the person out of the bus. But do you remember who the player was? We're not going to throw them under the bus. Fair enough. He got cut later though. Yeah, okay. That's some terrific insight to hear something like that. I do

appreciate you sharing it. You mentioned your agent there. Ron Grinker, another friend of the show, dare I say Jim McElvone. Yes. There's a Grinker. He talked about the close knit relationship that Grinker had with these clients just in terms of the impact. Obviously, it seems that Ron had on your life and going back as far as being associated with your father. He helped set you up

for a great pro career and and beyond after the retirement came to be. Absolutely. I grew up knowing Ron. I grew up going to Cincinnati in the summers to go to the Xavier basketball camp. The University of Cincinnati basketball camp. He was a Ohio State basketball camp and spent two to three weeks with Ron and and and and hit Marsha and his family. Taren and Melissa.

And so I would sit in his office and I would hear how he conducted business. I would hear different things that he educated his former players on. I had a chance to reflect back when my father was still playing. He would have my father and other players come to Cincinnati and he had what he called his own workout or boot camp or training camp, if you

will. And he was still doing that when I played with him. I played my first years in NBA and we would show up at Cincinnati. The veteran clients of his would put everyone through a training camp. We go twice a day. We would live. We would do aerobic types activities. We would do a lot of different things to prepare ourselves mentally and physically for training camp.

And those were some of the most beneficial workouts I ever had going into NBA training camp because I knew I was ready and prepared. This sounds like a terrific person. And it was fantastic at what he did as well. Thanks for sharing. I was actually fascinated to read that sometimes during that first rehab from the ACL that you worked out with Clippers J.M. at the time,

the legendary Aljambai. What stands out about some of those interactions that you had with Aljamb, early in your time with the Clippers and what impact would he have on your time there and beyond. Well, Aljambai. His name is up in the Raptors at the Nell Staples Center before that the form Hall of Famer. And so for him to to be a mentor in the community, if

you will, was something that it took me a lot to appreciate because at times it was, this is the GM for the Clippers. That was the mindset. That was a business mindset. And then Aljambai was so much more than that. He would pull guys to the side. He come out there and shoot some and rebound with you and talk to you. And then Aljambai went through

his fair share of injuries as well. So some of the conversations were, Hey, you're just going to have to persevere through some of this. There's going to be discomfort. There's going to be times when you struggle. But you got to continue to chop wood and stay after it and then it will all make it worthwhile and the long run. And so for me, that was, you

know, somebody I became comfortable with and been able to go up in his office and chop it up. I was from about ball or about life. And then his wife Elaine, they were, they were very beneficial to me early on in my career. Great stories and memories for you. Thank you. I don't want to focus too much on your ACL. But I know you said it's

one of the proudest moments of your career is to be able to fight through three different recoveries. Given the similar nature of your injuries, did you actually speak with the future Hall of Fame, a Bernard King during your recovery, given that back in about nine out of five at Kansas City, actually, Bernard suffered that terrible injury. He himself and had to fight back through and eventually

became an oyster. But I was my inspiration coming back from the injury. Bernard and the college teammate by name Archie Marshall, who tore his ACL two times in college and battle back to play. So I knew it was possible. But the talk of Bernard was coming back from the ACL injury was something that I, I definitely honed in on and realized that it was possible. You

have to work hard. And so every time that, you know, I got a chance to see him as a player. It made me appreciate his game and made me appreciate the grind that he went through to get back to that level. And the confidence and the peace of mind of people been able to say, well, Bernard King came back from that injury. It is possible. Because

before that, it was a great thing to do. It was not career threatening. It was career ending. That was a mindset. I set down one doctor's office and told me I never play again before I had the surgery. And it was just like, well, give me my crutches. You will not be doing my surgery. I read directly somewhere along the way in my research. You wore

a wristband with the number 23 written on it. Was it 23? His college number? Yes. To honor him. He heard himself in the final four against Juke in 86 perhaps. And then late, 97 ended up doing the same injury again. Archie was, he was my roommate at times from a room college. You know, we still stay in touch probably not as much as we probably like

to but life happens. You know, he was inspiration for me as well. He was just a way of having him out there on the court with us. He was on the bench. He was a part of practices. He was traveling with us. He was part of everything. But that was just an idea that came about facilitated by one of our managers and Bill Pope who later

went on to be a college coach. And now has been a long time NBA guy who came up with that idea. So it was something just to honor him and to let them know that we appreciate them. And he was with us every step of the way. Very nice. Just. Your NBA return was in late November of 89. He missed 63 games and you were off

court for almost 11 months. I noticed that your comeback game was actually a home game against Milwaukee. The same team you injured your knee against earlier that year. What emotions were you experiencing in the build up to that return. You scored 21 points in just 20 minutes. And you made your first six shots. There are even some welcome back down. He tells that we're handed out

to fans before the game. I was floating in my mind and my space mentally. I was just happy to be able to play basketball again to have something taken away from you that you love. But you don't know how much you love it. That you don't know how much you appreciate it until all of a sudden it's gone. And you realize that wow. I got to

carry myself in a much more grateful way as a person. And so we be able to get back out on that court. The combination of a lot of hard work. A lot of people helped me and my rehab and to get back out there. And I did a lot of my rehab in the sports arena. In the off season when the court was still up. I

became friends with the guys working there. I had a lot of friends that would come play pickup with me. Play one on one to play two on two with me in that venue. There was a lot of comfort there in that gym for me. And to step out on the court was one thing. But to make your first few shots. And then to look at the

stat sheet when it's all said and done. It felt very rewarding to see that type of product. And then I got to do a lot of action after everything that you go through on the rehab side of it. And so for me it was a proud moment. Not something you brag about. But just a proud moment of saying wow put in the work and this is

the outcome. Now in order to continue to have these types of outcome. I got to continue to work because you don't come back from ACL injury. And stop doing the things you did to make it back to the ACL injury. You rehab that injury every day forward for that point for the rest of your career. And so understanding that. It took me a little bit to

understand because I thought when I got back okay I'm good. I don't have to do any of this rehab stuff anymore. I just get the ball. I get to who. And then I realized wow I don't have the burst. I don't have the spring. I don't have the movement that I want. The therapist talk to you. To doctor talk to you. And it's a fine line

of you playing games. But how much can you actually work out. But you still got practices on the strengthening part. It was a fine line. It took me a while to find that balance. I think we did because of my great doctors and therapists. I love how you said that you had made friends with people at the arena. And you're going on the court in your

own time and keeping working on your game. Two weeks before your on court, return. Algebra sent Redy Williams and the rights to Danny ferry to Cleveland. And he returned high flyer Ron Harper. And some future picks came to the clippers in 28 games with the clips Harper averaged 23 points and almost six rebounds five assists two and a half steals per game. And you'd won six

of your last nine games. Eight of which were on the road. However, on the same day that he was named the NBA player of the week. And scored 33 points against the Hornets. He suffered a season ending injury eerily similar to yours. He tore his ACL and cartilage in his right knee. What were your immediate thoughts on learning the news of Ron's injury. And and what

was he like as a teammate and a friend during your time on the clippers because you had some terrific players on those squads. But struggled due to obviously the lack of being able to be all together at the same time through all kinds of varied injuries. Very thankful and blessed to have Ron Harper as a friend as a teammate. As a confidate. We went through a

lot of similar emotions. A lot of similar situations coming back from the ACL to have somebody that you could look at and knew exactly what you were going through was priceless for me at that point in time. And I was like, I'm going to have a lot of fun. And then hopefully I was that for him. I played more games with him than anybody in my

NBA career. And throughout the course of my career, he's the best friend I ever had in NBA. And I've had some really good friends. So the time we spent together was a guide sin because we had a good feel for one another and what we were going through and what we wanted to get back to in terms of level and be able to compete. Well, jump

ahead a little bit. I'm wary of your time. You've been so generous thus far, Danny in 1992. That was probably a season that defined you and the team at that stage with the Clippers. You were a starter and played all 82 games for the first time. And it was also your best seasons statistically to date. You're almost 20 points, seven boards for a sister game. And

you're also reunited with Larry Brown, who signed as a Clippers coach just before the all star weekend in Orlando. How did you react to news that Larry was set to take over from the interim head coach at the time, Matt Culver, the gentleman who you mentioned earlier on at the start of our chat, who were just replaced, Mike Schuller. Coach Brown, before he walks in the

door, you know he's going to make you a better player. He's got to make you a better person. And so for me, I knew those were things that were going to happen, but also your young man, the four or five years into my career. And I don't want to be treated like a college kid anymore, right? I'm not saying that was his intentions, but we had

some some differences, if you will, just because I thought, hey, this isn't college anymore in my mind. But at the end of the day, Coach Brown is still a teacher when he was still going to teach. Challenge and make us better. And I knew walking in, he was going to make our team better. I knew walking in, he was going to get us to play. And

that was the only thing that we cared about at that point in time, because at that point in our careers, we came in as young guys together. You know, you go back and you look at the class before me with the Clippers, Reggie Williams, Ken Norman, Joe Wolf. Those are the guys that are there. We walk into the door. We had Charles Smith, Gary Grant, Tom

Garrett in myself. We got a strong young nucleus. And it took us a while to figure out how to win, how to be successful, how to put guys in situations to benefit from team play. That's where we're at. So Coach Brown came in at a great time to add his two lich to add his expertise. And we were ready and chomping at the bit to be

a team that you had to reckon with. And he got us to that point. You had some great players on those teams over the years. And your Clippers teams were really fun to watch, particularly when it came to those playoff appearances in 92 and 93. You mentioned the 90. I was the first time the Clippers franchise had made the playoffs since moving to LA. And after

two double digit losses in Utah, you returned home for game three. And you led the Clippers to a win with 17 points. Now game four was actually scheduled for April the 30th of 92. However, it was postponed and eventually played at the Anaheim Convention Center three days later on May the 3rd due to the the LA riots that took place in the wake of the Rodney

King verdict. A lot of historical moment in California and USA history. I read that your team was practicing, I think, at Loyola Murrow Mount University in the days prior while the game was postponed and eventually rescheduled. How did you and your teammates deal with those days of unrest as violence was erupting around the sports arena where you were meant to be playing. And of course, LA

was basically burning to the ground at that stage. Well, I remember the day the verdict came down. I was an Inglewood at a one of my best friends, Tony Harvey was out visiting me. We were eating at a restaurant. And the first verdict comes out and not guilty. And I kind of look at him like, we got to go. He's looking to be like, huh, we

got to go. And so by the time we we get in the car and we get home. Then it was full on riots. But for us, it was, it was a traumatic experience. Not just as a basketball player, but as people to see that type of behavior. And there was no repercussions for that was tough to swallow. And then there were a point in time where

we had to go back to the sports arena to get our gear. Because it was still a mockery, the game shoes and whatever else. And so you walk into the arena. And at that point in time, the military had taken over the sports arena and it become command central. So we're walking down on the concourse, get ready to go down the steps escalator, whatever. And you

see guys just walking around with rifles on their shoulders and just geared up ready for war. And it was just like, whoa, wow. So you're walking through navigate and getting your stuff and getting out of there. But I remember going back to Hanahun, that building was jumping. That was so much fun. Um, crazy thing about it. This last year, my weight team, we played there. Oh,

really? And so, yeah, I remember you get there. You got to go downstairs to the locker room. It's a little bit dingy, a little bit musty in that venue. But that's the history and tradition of it. And so I remember and it was, it was fun to play in that venue. Obviously, we were like to be on our true home court, but we were able to

come away for a couple of wins and push it back to Utah, where we eventually lost to the jazz. Thank you for elaborating on that period of time. It seems insignificant. I guess the game itself, when all that was happening, but speaking of that incredible game for I watched it a few days ago, just to remind myself of how crazy the crowd was. It's on YouTube.

Game for took place at the convention center there in Hanahun. It was a frenzied fan base. And I actually read that the clippers moved the actual home court from sports arena and reassembled it on the court in Anaheim, which was unbelievable. When I asked you first, learnt that. So you played on your home court in another venue, which is quite remarkable. But even though calm alone,

had an unstoppable game. He had 44 points, you scored 33 points and had 10 rebounds. Ronnie Harbour had 26 points, and you had Doc Rivers, Charles Smith, Ken the snake Norman. They all had double figures as you want a really tense game, 115 to 107. As you said, forced that fifth game back in Utah. What stands out most about that unique situation, playing in front of

a pack to our sea, even though it was maybe half the capacity of the sports arena, your fans were just going absolutely wild. And it was probably one of the most underrated and great games that most people haven't even seen throughout the whole 90s. We thought we belong. We had a lot of guys that were talented and we've come to understanding a certain way that we

needed to play to be successful. And that's what we're able to do in Anaheim in the crowd support was tremendous. Anytime you plan to play out, that's a different level from a physical standpoint, a middle standpoint, an energy and enthusiasm from the crowd. There's nothing like playoff basketball in the NBA. And that was a good run for us at that particular time. Now you were named

an All Star for the first time in 9 and 93. You had 10 points and four rebounds in 18 minutes off the bench. And you're well. You had a Western Conference team held on for a 135 to 132 win in overtime. How did you describe the feeling of being named an All Star given that you've recovered from the ACL tear? And always your experience like in

Utah, Danny. It was a great experience to be named an All Star. But like teammates put me in position to make that happen on a personal note, being able to come back from the ACL and make the All Star team was something that I was extremely proud of. And I'm planning that first All Star game. It was fun. The only thing that was missing was my

wife at the time because she was pregnant and she couldn't go. All right. That must have been difficult. That was challenging in itself. It was a good, good moment. Just in terms of to be recognized as one of the best in the game in the best league in the world. I'm a felt very fortunate. In the 93 playoffs to spreefly your clippers again forced to decide

in game five in the first round. This time I was against the Houston Rockets and the Kema Liger on. Obviously the following two seasons they'd win the NBA. So that was great to take them to a fifth game. It was your second taste of the postseason. But following the 93 season coach, Larry Brown was replaced by Bob Weiss. You chose to sign a one year deal

with the clippers rather than a long term contract. Would anything have actually kept you playing for more than that one season with the clippers or were you just biting your time for greener pastures after some up and down seasons in the first five four years with the clips. I was looking forward to. Making the decision of where I got to play and I was not opposed

at all to signing back with the clippers, but also knew that the history and tradition that the clippers owner had of not resigning certain players. And I didn't want to come back to a clipper team that didn't have the nucleus that we were playing with at that current time. For me, it was. Okay, let's let's see some commitments being made to our other free agents or

other guys that are about to be free agents. And then I'm. Okay, with being here, I like it. I want to be continued to be a part of the bill. So to speak, but that didn't happen. I was traded to Atlanta for Dominique Wilkins, which is a completely different experience all in itself. But yeah, I was not opposed to resigning with the clippers, but you know,

I wanted some reassurances from the clipper organization that we were going to continue to move in a certain direction and move in a certain way. You're again named an all star in 1994 and the game was held in Minnesota. It was 11 days later that the clippers sent you to the Hawks for Dominique. You were averaging a career height, the time almost 24 points a game.

And you'd finished a regular season with a 19 and seven record in those games. You played with Atlanta and you won the Central Division title. How did you adjust from LA to Atlanta, given that you had the unenviable task of replacing an icon like the human highlight film Dominique Wilkins. It was eye opening to get traded for Dominique Wilkins, the amount of. Respect and love that

Nick has in the state of Georgia in the city of Atlanta. It's unreal. He he will go down as one of the most beloved sports icons in the state of Georgia and the city of Atlanta without question. And so for me, I go into it. Wow. This team really wants me. They wanted me to be a part of what they're doing to get in a duke.

I didn't play the first game. I was there. There was certain amount of time that had to collapse before the trade was made and you have to take your physicals and get all this type of paperwork done. So I didn't. I didn't play, but I got introduced. And so they introduced me and I walk out there to have court. I got the cheerleaders kind of walk

you out there and I got booed. And I'm saying, I said, what the hell, I'm a part of this team now. And so for that to happen, it was one of those deals. It was like, wow, Dominique was really beloved in this area. And they're going to miss him. And at that point, it was, I have to do everything and my power to keep our team

being successful because I'm not going to be Dominique. I knew that I wasn't the athlete. I was not dynamic and explosive. But I knew I could help our team continue to win games. And that was my mindset. And so for me to get treated and be a part of a team that won the Central Division Championship and not have any real fall off when Nick Lepin,

I joined the team was something that as a player, I felt really happy to be a part of. And then, you know, I got a chance to play for a Hall of Famer, Lenny Wilkins as well. In that non in 94 playoffs, you'd end up being eliminated by Indiana in the second round. But in the last year or so, footage is emerged of the round one

fight in game two between the Hawks and the Heat, Dwayne Farrell and Grant Long got into it, no confrontation. And then that spilled across the court and mayhem ensued. Do you mind just talking about your experience from what you observed in that game? I did more than observe. I contributed to the melee. You don't give up layups and postseason play. Nothing's easy. You got to go

to the free throw line. And so I committed a couple with a call of flagrant fouls protecting the rim, not letting guys shoot layups. That at that time was not an ejection. And so for us, I kind of set the tone for what the playoffs were all about. And then, you know, we get into that melee and it goes from one end of the court down

to the other. It was looking back on it, dangerous. But at the time that you're in it, you don't know, you just want to protect your team, make it have your teammates back and make sure that they're doing okay. And so that's kind of how I look at it. I've had players that I've coached in the past pull up those clips and go, hey, coach, you're

a little wild back then. What was going on? What all that? It happens. It happens. You mentioned Lonnie Wilkins. I think he was writing amongst it trying to separate you. You're very good friend. Craig yellow was also involved. You're watching on the floor to try and protect him. And but yeah, it was it was wild. And I was curious on your thoughts on it. So thank

you for entertaining the answer there. In early September of 94, you saw it as an unrestricted free agent, I believe. And you played for five seasons in the valley of the sun. Unfortunately, only 46 games into your tenure there. You adult another huge setback. Suffering a torn ligament in your left knee this time at a practice session that America, West Arena, you might have bumped into

Joe Klein. How did you react to that incident? The previous four games before you did that. You were averaging 23 points and almost nine rebounds of game for Phoenix. But I blew my knee out the second time in practice on the practice. I was a tough court, it was a tough situation for a lot of different reasons. But more so, because I finally thought I was

back at a level of play that I was really happy with. And so then to see that all banish and go, Okay, I got to do it again. In terms of the rehab. The rehab didn't bother me because I've done it before. I knew it. Okay. I got this. I know what I got to do. But I did have a pity party one night for myself.

It was it was upset. It was troubling. To know that I got to go back to the all star level and how I've going through another ACL. That was a moment. Had a bad night one night. And then the next day it was okay. On to the next. Let's get better. I know what I had to do. I've done it before. It'll just be a matter

of time for him back out there again was my mindset. I read numerous newspaper articles and clearly president Jerry Kylangelo and the sons franchise were very supportive of you in the wake of that terrible injury again. How crucial was that support? Obviously the following seasons that you applied with the sons as your tenure with them continued. Extremely important. Jerry Kylangelo was the reason that I chose

Phoenix. He was an owner that had a great reputation. My agent Ron Grinker knew of him knew him well. And it was kind of a role of the dice, if you will, because I'd been offered multi year deals by Atlanta and by the clippers. And I just didn't feel that they were fair marks. I was a market value for where I was at in my career.

And so I signed a one year deal to go to Phoenix. And we were playing really well. We had one of the best records in the NBA at that point in time. I'm Kevin Johnson and Charles Barkley, of course, and Dan Marley and the rest of the crew. And sort of blow my knee out there. I'm sitting on the training table in the training room. And

I'm like, I signed a one year deal. I signed a one year deal. I signed a one year deal. I was like, well, what was I thinking? So in the midst of that mindset, closing my eyes and reminiscing about how it happened. The guys were all around me. It's a training table. And then they got quiet and got a little eerie. And over my eyes. I

didn't see anybody. And then Jerry Kylangelo appeared. He touched me. It said, hey, I won't forget that you made to us. And at that point, it's just like, that's great to hear. But what does that mean? And so for me, Jerry Kylangelo, I'm not sure if I'm right, but I'm sure I'm right. He was a God sent. He's someone to have a tremendous amount of respect

for because in the midst of my comeback. From that ACL. After he saw me and the. The team saw me in training camp. They were signed me to a long term contract extension. And so I was something I'm very happy grateful and thankful for. So Jerry Kylangelo in my book always be on the best owner. That I've ever had a chance to deal with. So I'm

really pleased to hear that. And that's a fantastic story. In February of 96 you returned to the court and you played out the season. Your sons were knocked out in round one of the playoffs by the Spurs in 97. It was a season of transition for the sons. You started 0 and 8. And after that, Danny Ains replaced cotton, Fitz Simmons as coach. And then you

ended the year 40 and 42 losing in the first round of the playoffs to the Sonics. But 9 and 98 is the one I'd love to talk about as a testament to your perseverance. You were named NBA six men of the year. It was bittersweet. However, the first time I was coming coming off the bench in 59 of your 70 regular season games. You average almost

14 points six boards to assist and one steal per game. It was only six games before the playoffs were about to start. And then you were struck down by a third ACL injury. This time it was in your original knee, the right knee. How did it feel to be recognized as the leagues best sixth man, Danny. Well, I was happy. But during that season coaching staff

came to me and Dan Marley, we were starting and said, I think you guys will be better for our team coming off the bench. And so that was a role that we weren't crazy about, but we accepted. So for me to be named six men of the year, that was a goal. That was a pie in the sky. Well, I want to be the best at

what I do. So if I'm going to be coming off the bench, I want to be the best bench player there is. And that was a mindset. But I knew a lot of things had to work out well for me, but I had great on self as teammates and it kind of worked out. So that was the goal. Certainly a moment that I'm fond of as

well in terms of my accomplishments in the NBA. I read somewhere that you had a panther tattoo on your right ankle as a reminder of what you didn't do it throughout your career and some of the trials and tribulations that you've had. Every time I blew my knee out, when I would come back, I got a different tattoo. I got one. Right. Yeah. One was a

Panther. I wanted to kind of have that mentality out on the court. I thought it was my first time as a basketball. So I had such a tremendous sleek, aggressive animal. The second time I got a shark. Same reason. And then the last time I got a tattoo. Kind of a made up symbol or logo. And for me, it means the heart to ball. So it's

a letter. D to a heart and a basketball. It looks terrible now. But it beat not a lot of significance for me as a player. That was kind of my, in my own way, my right of passage of making it back to that level. Great to hear your elaborate on this. Thank you so much. How did your medical treatment in 1998 compare to your first ACL

injury back in 89? You're perfectly touched on it. What were the adventures like in the almost 10 years between the first and third one? Progress in terms of a lot more aggressive than the rehab going through it the first time in 1989, 1990. It was, you know, we're going to take it real slow. We're going to find all the book and we follow the book and

all of our rehab protocols, but the need that was pushed a little bit more, the technology of how you take care of your body, the modalities that you can put on to help strengthen your leg, where things had changed quite a bit. And so for me, when I went through my second ACL, let me go back a little bit. I built a weight room at my

house, a free standing building behind my house. And that's why I did all my rehab with my therapist, Carl Horn. So we had every unit imaginable that we needed to rehab an ACL and maintain the previous injury ACL. And so for me, that investment was something that I'm so happy that I made because it gave me a chance to play 15 years. And so when I

blew it out the third time, it was, okay, this is all had. I've done this before. It sucks. You got to go through it again, but I know what I got to do. So let's get after. I love this test memory on one specific ply for me or career. I'll make it in a few words and see if you can pick up on which ply I'm

referring to. Is that McNeckles Arena? No, he has. I got it. I got it. You got it. I got it. Antonio McDice. That's a one. He made a dice made me look pretty good. There was a fast break. I don't know if Rex Chapman threw the outlet past to me. It took off on me. Now I wouldn't run into fast as Rex thought I was. And

so I'm trying to catch up to the basketball. And by the time I get to the basketball, I can't come to a stop. But for some reason I look over corner by shoulder and I see dice trailing. So I actually just kind of flip it up over my head around the rim. And Tony, I'm a dice was a tremendous athlete. Jump run shooting. I mean, he

was he was so good. And he just bounces up in the air and makes a terrific athletic play and slams it home. That was probably my favorite assist. I was thinking about it by the rim and he did all the work. Oh, man. It's not an incredible play. And one that sticks in my mind from seeing it on NBA action back in 9 and 98. It

was the number one assist of the year. I'm so glad that you picked up on that almost immediately. I'll just quickly fast forward. The final years of your career, you completed rehab again and played every game with a lockout shot and 99 season. Crowd moment to play in all those games because we had a couple back to back to that. Yeah, that's right. So you played

all 50 regular season games. You played the three. Playoff games after coming back from your third ICL yet incredible that you can just get back and get it straight into it again. The following season. The lockout year for me was beneficial in the sense that a game. Me more time to rehab my injury. That rehab. Like I said, the advancements medically. You're a little bit more

aggressive. But it was still a game. Your chance to come back around the 11 month mark, which is what I did the first two surgeries to probably could have come back. No, I wouldn't have been able to come back a little bit sooner. I'm going to be able to do it. I was really proud of not missing any games that year. Yeah, I was really impressed

when I looked back at basketball reference and looked at your game log 50 games or 50 regular season and played the three playoff games. So just remarkable staying power really in early August of 99 fanics traded you. And some future picks to Orlando for Penny Hardaway, which I'd completely overlooked in my memory. And then a few weeks later you were dealt with Dale Alice, another friend

of the show, shameless self promotion there. Timil was in return for Chris Gattling and Arm and Gilliam. Was there ever a possibility that you were going to be staying in Orlando or was the deal sort of set in place to then send you straight on to Milwaukee once the pieces fell into place? I was traded. I was on vacation with my family. We were in the

Bahamas. We were at the Atlanta's Resort and see we get traded. Get a phone call. We need you to come to Orlando for the press conference. So I ended up cutting my vacation. I day short my wife and my kid stayed the duration. And I get to Orlando and Doc Rivers is the coach there in the midst of conversation. He goes, we need you to come

in for the press conference. But we're going to trade you before the season starts. And I'm like, for them, you could have told me that. I'm going to stay on vacation. I mean, I need to come here for them just to press conference. We can eventually have that. But anyways, so no, I knew I was not going to be in Orlando. I didn't know where I

was going to get traded. Then Della and I got traded to Milwaukee. That was a different experience for me because my first five years LA happened season at Atlanta. Five years Phoenix. And then we go to the frozen tundra of Wisconsin. That took some getting used to. I was in Milwaukee in 1994 in January with some Australian guys on the NBA tour just watching games. And

it was brutally cold. I've never experienced cold like it. I don't think. Yeah, that was the first time I experienced it too. The water coming off that lake. After my tentative there was up in a year. I really started to enjoy Milwaukee because I would go back in recruiting because that great events there. And I really liked it. You know, I like to sit in Milwaukee.

But I was not ready for the LA Atlanta Phoenix transition to Milwaukee. I was not ready for that. I had to change up my gear. I had to go get some real winter clothes. And so we're really wearing a boot. And yeah, make sure I had samples in my driveway to try to be able to get out if I needed to. You played for George Carl's

Bucks in that 2000 season. You saw him does a free agent with Jerry Sloan and the jazz in 2001. And you played every game again. That season before you joined as a free agent with Don Nelson and the Mavericks in 2002, your final season was with the Detroit Pistons in 2003. The team led by Rick Carlisle. Just one season later, Larry Brown returned to Detroit. And

the Pistons would win the title in 2004. Was there ever a possibility that you could have been part of the team in that season? Or that wasn't even on your radar? I had an opportunity to go back to the Pistons at that point in time. And I mean, I was going to be a little bit more confident. I had to decide not to, obviously regretted and

kick of myself because I would have had a world championship ring because I wanted the championship to fall in year. But for me, it came down to my family. My son and my daughter were at a point where we wanted to give them more stability. My son was in fourth grade and had not been in the same school for a whole year. And so for me,

that kind of weighed out for me. And so I retired. And he had a chance to get comfortable. And my daughter also had finished up junior high and high school before being uprooted again. That was definitely part of the thinking, but also knowing that an opportunity to win a championship creeps in my mind from time to time. It'd be a part of a championship team is

something I do think about. Very quick overview of your post playing days. You joined your alma mater, Kansas, and spent four years in a student athlete development and a team management role. And then you joined Coach Bill Self as an assistant with the J hooks. You won an NCAA title in 2008 as an assistant. In 2012, you accepted a head coaching position at Tulsa. And you

were named the conference USA coach of the year in 2014. Then later that same year, took over as head coach at Wake Forest and parted Waisers with the school after six seasons earlier this year. Do you hope to return to the coaching ranks in college or perhaps at the NBA level one day? What plans are you looking at in the years to come, Danny? I'm going

to go at Wake Forest this year. I've had a lot of wonderful friends reach out to me and offer me positions, a few at the collegiate level and one professionally. I wanted to put myself in a situation where I continued to grow and develop. And I would have done all those things in any of those situations. But I thought I want to be involved in the

game of basketball. And I want to share my passion and what little insight I do have with the basketball community. And so for me, that would lead to the decision of what I'm doing now, which is being a college basketball analyst on ESPN, which I'm really enjoying. And to answer your question, I don't know what the future holds, but I do know I want to be

involved with the game of basketball on some type of level. You've definitely got more than a little insight. I can tell you that much as experience over the last 90 minutes, you've been so generous with the time. How's it been working in front of the camera in a role where you're analyzing the game? And talking about the game you love, rather than being on the sidelines,

directing the team and also obviously prior to that, being the main person running the teams on the court. It's been a lot of fun. It's been challenging because we're not prepared to go into the studio and talk basketball as a coach. It's just this team right here. Sorry, I'll point it. We'll break them down one of everything that we can find out about them and have

a good feel for as an analyst. It's 15 games, maybe that you got to have some type of knowledge of because you don't know what game is going to kick off into something special. You don't know what game where a player is going to have a career night. So you have to have a level of familiarity with all of them. And so that's probably been the

most challenging thing is making sure that and it's still hard. The pronunciations of a name to certain guys that you come across. But I enjoy it. I mean, I've been with some great host. Dallin Cup has been really good to me, Matt Berry, VC. These guys have been really good. And then Sean Farton has been my partner every day that I've been on. He's helping educate

me. He actually showed me how to put on my makeup. Because I shine a little bit. I'm probably shining now. But yeah, Sean, Sean showed me how to put on my makeup. So those guys, the ESPN have been terrific and the support staff, the producers have made it easy for me. I'm a rookie in this profession. And so I just want to learn as much as

I can and share my insight. That's great. I wish you every success going forwards with your media role too. Just two final things I love to ask guests when they appear on the show. Basketball Digest had a really great regular feature, which was called the game I'll never forget. We may have covered it already, but from your immense career in basketball, either as a player coach,

is there one particular game that stands out above all others. Now, there are a few games to be honest with you. Every game that I was able to come back from the ACL and playing that first game back was special. But I'm actually playing in a national championship game in college was special. Playing in NBA all-star games was something that I hold great value in and

very proud of. The career scoring, the career nights that you had, that's nice. Don't get me wrong. But I think the other things made a little bit more. I have one triple double in my NBA career. So that'd probably be the game. I felt like I was the most complete. Your career high scoring in the NBA was maybe 43. I think you might have dropped on

the balls in the 93 94 season as a member of the Clippers. I was going to ask you about that. That's a fantastic effort. Do you have any particular significance in the jersey? What's the number that you wore throughout your career? It was 25 in high school and it can't. Before the injury with the Clippers, you wore 25 and then transitioned to number five. You also

had number five in Atlanta, 15 at Phoenix, 25 with the Bucks, 15 in Utah, six at Dallas and number five, I believe, with the pistons. Bit of a theme there with the digit five. Yes, there is growing up. 25 was a number I had in college. And so I got that my rookie year in the year. I was in the NBA and then when I blew

my knee out, I kind of had to reinvent yourself. And so I went with number five. And I was that number, go to Atlanta. I'm still number five. And then everything else was just kind of a, I couldn't get five. So I had like 15, you know, before I can't get that 25, I go back to my number number six in Dallas was just a play

on 15. And so that was kind of kind of the mindset. And then my last year playing with the pistons five was the only number that I liked that was available. Gotcha. Thank you very much. Danny, it's been absolutely fantastic to have you on the show today. I really appreciate the time you've afforded me. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. Even half as much as I

did chatting to you. Thanks so much for being on the show. And I hope maybe one day again, we can chat some more old school basketball. I appreciate you having me on. I enjoyed it. Enjoy going down memory lane with you. And so thank you very much and wish you continued success. Take care, man. Thanks for listening. Welcome your interaction with the show. You can suggest

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