Financial Markets Price Meltdown [2020] - Bitcoin

Welcome everyone, it's the CryptoLark. Super excited to have back on the show Alex from Nuggets News. Alex, how's it going? Very good, thanks a lot. Hey everyone at home, thanks for having me on. Absolutely, I'm always super excited to chat to you. And today we're going to be talking all about global markets. So it's going to be a great chat. Make sure you stick around for

it. We're going to be talking about what's happening with the Federal Reserve. We're going to be talking about what's happening with COVID. We're going to be talking about what's to happen on stock markets today, oil and gold and silver. And of course, yes, Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. So make sure you stick around. It's going to be a great, great chat. Now I think the logical place to

start off our little discussion is going to be what happened with the stock market. I was blown away. Hit the hit the circuit breakers within three minutes of opening. So that's wild. I know. I mean, this has been something that's been so fascinating to me for 10 years now, like, and it all started off after the last financial crisis when I lost the heap of money

and went down that rabbit hole. And to see it playing out so aggressively, I think in a lot of ways, it's sort of like, it's already worse than the last financial crisis in terms of the velocity that's started. So last week, we were joking about when to do this interview and sort of saying it's probably going to get worse on Monday at that open. And sure

enough, we hit those circuit breakers in the dows down 13% or 3000 points. So I think why it's been so nasty is because markets and healthcare professionals. And they didn't price this in correctly. So as you know, I'm a farm system. I was doing that video a month ago. I was talking to a guy about how the virus is quite contagious. It's like they've spread and

the only way to stop it will be locked down so you sort of forecast that in your mind and say, well, that's going to be pretty bad. If they have to shut down the economy, but even what I couldn't have predicted it was going to be this bad. And we're at this point now where it's still not reality for a lot of people in Australia, particularly

the elderly and the immunocompromised, we all have to take these seriously. And that's not happening. And stock markets are the outro and a price that in. The problem with those kind of attitudes too is that it prolongs the pain because if you have people continuing the infection process, then lockdowns last longer. Right. The very people who might be quite, you know, are you going to do

whatever I want, right. Those are the guys, well, you're in a couple weeks, you're going to be out of a job. Right. And then you can do whatever you want. Right. Great. Now you've got no job either. So you have no money to do the things that you want. And this process will continue for longer. And it's just this cyclical process of more and more pain

unless people take things seriously. Yeah, I should probably add, it's not just elderly people. We're now getting a lot of reports that there's been healthy pay people and even athletes. There was a basketball player in America the other day who wasn't taking it seriously. And I think he kissed all the microphones or touched all the microphones at the conference. And then he came down with coronavirus

a couple of days later. Reports that it is also attacking other organs. So we've seen some people going to heart failure that are healthy individuals. So we have to take this seriously. Until you eradicate it from everyone, as you say, if only 90% of people quarantine and 10% keep spreading. They're taking it around it has this sort of boom or anger effect where it could bounce

back. So we've got to stamp it out. That's right. And obviously that the markets have just been getting wrecked by this. So overall, and I look at COVID as the match that lit the house. The cards on fire. Right. It's yes. It is a major catalyst for the current economic event that we're seeing. But part of the reason why the economic event side of it is

so bad is because the financial situation really we just plastered over the cracks in the wall from 2008. We never really fixed anything. We know that record amounts of debt, zombie companies, low interest rates, everything was just so fake and had to come back down to reality. And this is why it's hurting so much because reality was so far from where we got to. That's a

really good point that we really over did things quite a bit with all this just. Yeah, the rate cuts the free money, all this stuff to just kept going and going and going and going and going for such a long time. And actually we take it back to last year. I remember when they announced the extra money for the repo markets. And that's really why I

thought like, oh man, where it's something bad's going on. And it's going to happen probably in the next few months. And you know, it took about six months from that point. But that really started to show that we had this massive liquidity crisis happening in the markets. And at the time I were all the markets are great. Everything's great. The markets were not great. Obviously. Now

JP Morgan in particular, they've just become such a behemoth. That was so important to the markets because they would let us end out their excess dollars into the market for those people that needed it to shore up their books and then liquidity and whatnot. And they stopped doing that. A lot of other banks thought that the better use of their money is to speculate or particularly

go into bonds. And we saw how how bonds really took off and everyone wanted to get into the safety of bonds. But now the Fed have got this headache where they're printing all this money. But everyone, a lot of the new rules require you to have bonds and other sort of collateral to shore up your books. And I think that's really the reason why I think

it's a good point. How much money they're printing, it's not going to where it's actually needed. So it's stuck in this system where banks stew aren't lending to each other because they're I think they're fearful. And there's a real chance now that there's some hedge funds or banks that are in solvent. And if you lend to someone else, then they crash. You don't get that position

back obviously. That's why there's so much fear in the markets and they're freezing up in the Fed are basically powerless. They've said, we're going to do it started off at 500 then it was a trillion then it was unlimited. But it's not enough because that's not really the problem. Yeah, it's we are going to see insolvencies. I am a big believer in that. And that's that's

in and out of the traditional markets. By the way, I'd like for everyone to understand that. Yeah, we're going to see banks go under we're going to see capital controls put in a banks because banks don't have enough money. They're not able to get their hands on enough money. Right. All the money is going to the wrong places. They're providing up unlimited money for. You know,

the guys on Wall Street, right. So all these giant banks and stuff. Yeah, they're getting money. But then they're just putting it. They're keeping it. They're not they're not they're not putting it out there. It's not it's not having the impact that they want to have. So we can see smaller banks go under we can even see some big banks go under. Lots of companies are

at massive risk. I mean, Aaron is dealing for example, the cut 85% of their long haul flights. No one's going anywhere. Airlines are going to get hit hard. I don't know how I earn a zine will do. But I mean just that as an example like airlines going to hit hard train companies will get get hit hard restaurants cafes all this stuff. So I mean from

small businesses right up to the big guys. We're going to see a lot of that happen. I think also in the crypto industry, you know, I think this is some of the people aren't taking enough notice of either is that we probably will see some insolvence in the crypto industry as well. Yeah, crypto is an interesting one because it's almost like it's working out favor that

some of these products don't have any real world customers yet. So there's no demand that can drop off in a lot of ways we're in this building stage. And a lot of that happens from home on computers. So I think that's something that can actually really favor the crypto industry compared to a lot of others. But. In I think in the US, the foot traffic's already

dropped off significantly in restaurants, but that's in a place where they haven't really had any lockdown yet. So I think we're going to see a 90% plus drop off in in foot traffic for retail restaurants. That just puts for businesses in such a hard position. The Australian government and some of the state local governments have announced some handouts to support small business in terms of payroll

tax and stimulus. But into the day, these are all just bands. These are trillion trillion dollar problems. You're talking about the GDP of countries dropping 20, 30, 50% if everyone goes into lockdown for months and months. There's no way you can pay every business as expenses for that. You know, that is just multi trillion dollar stuff we're talking about. So that's why all these little bonuses

and packages that the Prime Minister in Australia is probably going to roll up again today and you know talk about how it's going to do 20 billion dollars of stimulus. But it's just it's nothing in this game of things. This is exactly right. The problem is so big, right? All the money that are throwing at us, not really having much of an effect because it's nowhere

near the sum of money that the actual problem is, right? So we've seen, you know, the Federal Reserve say, well, they're going to put up 1.5 trillion dollars and 700 billion in quantitative easing and they've cut the interest rates and all this stuff and none of its working that that that was that was announced over the weekend. And then on Monday, the stock markets hit we're

going to hit super hard. All the money in the world didn't stop to stock markets from crashing again. Yeah. I think in the US, they're not they're not even targeting like in Australia, we saw a little bit of sort of business targeting and support fiscal sort of spending. In America, I don't certainly. There's been that much talk of that yet. It's still all that saving Wall

Street stopping the credit markets freezing. How do we stop the banks from going under? Let's rescue the bond market. There's no talk of every day Americans getting support. I think we're going to see a situation here. In the coming months where we are likely to start seeing potentially quite tough negative rates in a lot more places places where people never thought they would happen. We've seen

this emergency rate cut by the Fed down to 0%. Seeing negative rates, if as things continue to get worse, right? We might be looking at a situation where the majority of the US gets locked down. I mean, negative bank rates is a very real possibility. What are your thoughts? You think we're going to see negative rates coming all over the world? Yeah. I think it was

literally a month. I'll go in Australia when they're talking about interest rates won't go too low. I think a year ago, they're talking about how they're going to start raising rates. There was the same in the US. We're going to raise rates. Everything is going to be great. We're projecting all this growth. And they're all denying the fact that QE was going to be a reality

in Australia. And then a couple of weeks ago, New Zealand sort of floated the idea that this might be coming in Australia and that is saying, it's still really unlikely in this country. And then last week, New Zealand came out and said that, yeah, we're probably going to be looking at low or negative rates. And if that happens, we're going to have to change the laws

around cash because people would try and hold cash out of the banks. So we'd have to change the laws. So that basically proved all the conspiracy theorists right about negative interest rates. And that's still something in Australia that they're trying to pass through and calling it a conspiracy theory. So yes, America emergency cuts down to zero. I think every country goes to zero. And then you

either go negative or they keep printing money. That's the only thing they really know how to do. At that point, if you've been a preparer with your Gold Silver or you've got your cash or you've spent it and you've got some stable coins Bitcoin, whatever, you're pretty happy. If you're outside the system once all these drug honey and laws come in where they're not going to

let you take out money, we're already hearing that literally this week in Australia, people telling us that they've been to the banks and then a lot of it draw cash. And the individual branches make these excuses or whatnot. There you go. It's happening already guys. That's the thing to keep in mind is that it's such a vicious cycle when you actually put it all together. So

if we have negative rates, you're going to be punished for keeping money in the bank. Right. At the same time, you're going to have massive inflation happening. So you're actual not only are you going to lose two or three percent of your deposit, thanks to negative rates. And those are being passed on to customers. You're already proved that they're very willing to pass these negative rates

on to customers. And it might get to the point where they hit all accounts, not just big account holders. So you're going to lose money, thanks to negative rates, you're going to be losing purchasing power via massive inflation as they keep printing money like crazy to try to stop this problem. And you have to keep your money in the criminal banks. If you take your money

out of the bank, you're going to get flagged. You're going to get put on a list. They're not even going to let you take the money out of the bank. The fact that you came in and asked for cash is going to make you a suspect. And if you actually have cash, that's going to make you a criminal. We've seen this criminalization of cash, which is,

you know, Bitcoin, man, Bitcoin, holy cow. Yeah. And that's why it's been, I guess, a bit frustrating watching Bitcoin sort of fail in the short term, I guess you'd say, where if it was ever going to have some sort of safe haven status, or even just an uncorrelated status, I would have taken over and said, that's a huge win when markets are crashing. But it's basically

been highly correlated to stock markets and sold off. Now, there's been glimpses last week. We had a bit of a rally when stocks went down today. Stocks have had a really bad day. And Bitcoin sort of holding up okay. If we're looking at the start, so hopefully if Bitcoin can detach from that, make itself known as this separate system. And in this world, where we're now

going to be printing trillions of dollars in every currency and negative rates. And that is just that environment. We're Bitcoin is going to. I just can't see how you can't be bullish meeting to longer term, but short term. Hey, it looks like it's going to be a rocky ride. Yeah, absolutely. I absolutely agree. Now, one thing that I've been talking a bit about. And I've seen

that. And I think that's really something I've seen. A couple big VC guys comment on Twitter as well as a lot of the sell off that we've seen is really people de-risking from their assets. And not just people. Really, I'm talking about hedge funds, fidelity customers, people like this. They're real traditional investor types who did go and get one, two, three percent of their portfolio in

the Bitcoin. And as soon as the crap started hitting the fan, these guys were, I'm going to cash. And they just dumped Bitcoin basically. Bitcoin made it. We got a big investors on board. And then they were first ones to rush for the exits when things started getting tough. What do you think about this theory? You're hearing mixed reports. I mean, like some of them, Mike

Novigratch is the world is saying that institution investors are scared. And it said, it said everything back 12 months, which, look, maybe a lot of that on-chain data still says that there hasn't really been that many selling from the old hands and that the top whale accounts and whatnot. So I think a lot of people that are getting margin calls, they have to sell everything. Golden

Silver's gone down as well as Bitcoin. A lot of the crypto crowd, hopefully, isn't as exposed to stocks. They're kind of the cipher punks that they haven't got all their money in stocks. They won't be believers in that world. So hopefully there's less force selling from the crypto community than the force selling of guys in the stock world that are happy to sell their ETFs and

whatnot. But the other thing is that if, no matter how bad this gets, if Bitcoin can sort of prove that it's a liquid market. So they're having to intervene in the stock market, in bond markets, in interest rate markets. If Bitcoin can have no intervention and no one come and save it and sort of survive this biggest crash in modern times, then it gets a bit

more of a reputation for itself that, yeah, if it's actually quite liquid, if you do need to sell. And next time round when Bitcoin's $100,000 a coin, it has this reputation where it's almost as liquid as US dollar. Whenever I want to go on a dollar or bonds, they know they can get in and out. So hopefully we get this reputation as, yeah, it's a global

liquid market. No matter what currency you're in, the moment is kind of, I don't like the fact that we're getting price discovery from BitMex. And we had that cascade of crash the other day. But all these signs of the honey budget, the anti fragility that makes Bitcoin stronger. Yeah, that BitMex situation was absolutely crazy. It's a good thing that they went to do. Regency meetings when

they get the cascade really started coming down. But you make a great point about the liquidity of Bitcoin. And also there's this, I think really Bitcoin's one of the freest markets in the world. What do you think about it? Because there's not actually anyone who can step in and save the crypto markets, right? If it's going to go to zero, that's what the market has decided.

Not that it's going to go to zero. But there's no federal reserve to step in and say, let's shore up the Bitcoin markets. Doesn't work like that, right? This is this is free markets, deciding the value of these assets. And that's very exciting in a way. I'm sure some people say that, you know, Tether or print Tether out of thin air and come save the markets

and whatnot. But no, I think Bitcoin certainly has its manipulators in terms of the whales, the push it round and leverage trading. But in terms of who's going to save the market, the Federal Reserve aren't coming to save Bitcoin anytime soon. Now we've seen our golden silver also getting hit pretty hard today. So it's interesting to think. I mean, there's not really any safe place to

go with them. You can go into cash, but then you're looking at negative rates, potential capital controls and obviously inflation on those dollars, which may be less painful than some of the drops we're seeing in different equities and golden silver and stuff like that. But what do you think behind the big golden silver drop that we've seen? Yeah, it's quite funny when Peter shifts out there

saying that Bitcoin's father's test and it's not safe haven and then gold like absolutely tank silver is down like 35, 40%. So, it's got an 80's own words and that's why I hate it when gold silver crowds fight. As you know, like I'm pretty bullish on both of them. So it's going through exactly what everything is going through at the moment in that sell off. But

what I think has really changed this week, we've heard lines out the door. It bullion dealers all around Australia. So there is huge demand and stories of shortages across the US as well in the physical markets. So what's collapsing is the paper price and it's not that difference of the BitMix situation. Where all these leverage futures traders, a lot of them were long as well. So

it was that cascade of liquidations and the paper price is getting absolutely crushed. But man, oh man, you can imagine the lines out the door to buy $12 silver at bullion dealers today. They're going to be told there's our six weeks weight this battle the other. So I think it's just maybe the paper markets and the derivative markets breaking, which is what a lot of people

have wanted to see for years. Yeah, this is actually really, really good point. The underlying assets from themselves are very different from the paper markets. Right now if we think about, yeah, all the margin calls that happen. I think a lot of people got margin calls over the last couple of days who never thought they were going to get margin called on their on their plays.

You know, if you take BitMix as an example, if you went two or three X long on Bitcoin from like, I don't know, let's say seven K or something like that. That's fine. It's never going to get a margin call for $3,800. That's ridiculous. And then it happened, right? People got caught with their pants down basically by how much pain came into the market. Yeah, and

all exchanges froze as well. So I think that's another learning lesson for people that it's so important to have the majority of your coins in your huddle stack long term and trading is good fun. But you've just got to be prepared. There are going to be days where every exchange was down the other day, you know, Binance, BitMix had a nightmare of a time. A lot

of exchanges were affected. People were trying to get money into the system, but they're scrambling, oh, how do I get this exchange into deposit? And by the time the money gets in, the price is going back up all there. They're trying to send Bitcoin to an exchange and the network gets clogged again or Ethereum gas prices went up when when maker and all these adapts and

Dex's were using up all the gas. So you've got to have a plan ahead of time. And I know the other day, for example, my plan was using Litecoin to go between exchanges when I was trading and whatnot. So guys, you gotta think about all those things. Yeah, that's clever. That's clever. Now all of this crazy is happening, right? With little markets and interest rates. And

all this stuff at the exact time that really, you know, we're getting hitting Pete crazy Saudi Arabia, Russia and the United States decide to go into a massive price war over oil. This is craziness of all times. Of course, of course, they do it now, obviously. But how do you think the what's what we're seeing in the oil markets is going to really just affect everything.

Because obviously oil is, you know, the old oil, right? We always say dad is the new oil, but no, oil is still oil for the global economy. Yeah. So when you think about everything, we've spoken today that hit the stock markets in a perfect storm when they were already overvalued. We had this sort of the climate change. We're going to save you from that, that argument

put forward. And then we had this. Yeah, we're going to invest in all the renewables. And that was sort of a new theme that was coming out of it all. Then we had, you know, the bushfires in Australia that you'd asked and now coronavirus. But now we've got the oil market and the energy sector is one of the most important in the world. Russia have got

to this position where they've got all this gold, 100 billion dollars of reserves that's selling down to their US treasuries. But what is going to happen if they can pump oil and Saudi Arabia can pump oil at these low prices and they can survive $10 a barrel if they have to for years. What it does is it puts out a business all these US shale Canadian

tar sands producers that have a $50 per barrel cost. And all those companies, they're not like Saudi Arabia where they're, you know, they go long history. They've got all these reserves and whatnot. They've got debts and they've borrowed a heap of money to do all these. They've issued all these junk bonds or some of them at the level above junk. And again, this is what's going

to cause the cascade house of cards collapse of the US bond markets junk bond markets and energy sector, which is part of the stock market. So that they probably don't have more than a few weeks, three months that they could survive before these stuffs to just break. You know, the political implications of what's going on the oil markets are also really, really fascinating because in a

lot of ways, I think Russia is pretty well, you know, positioned to be able to ride such a situation. Now you mentioned, you know, they've been, they've been mad stockpiling gold for the last couple of years, but really in 2019, they added a lot of gold to their, to their treasury, which is, you know, very, very clever. And brush also no debt, right? So where we

see this big opposition to a country like America, which has like 23 dollars in debt, just on a magical mountain to debt. And yeah, country like Russia, which is, you know, not in debt like that. It's a very stark difference. In fact, they have all this savings in terms of gold and for currency reserves. And they've got the ability to produce oil quite cheaply and to

stay in the game when it comes to that. So and also I think all the sanctions we've seen happening with, with Russia has also really seen a renaissance of domestic industries. I've seen for example, a lot of new Russian food companies coming onto the market, which previously there was a saw everything Russians bad. And you got to get all your food out of Europe and stuff

like this is where they make all the good stuff. From now with all the sanctions, there's been a big renaissance of really self dependence or, yeah, you know, being independent from all these other sources. So it's pretty interesting to see how that's going to play out a thing long term as well. That's very interesting. And again, with India banning medicines exports to other countries, when China

wins, it's a complete lockdown for a month. People will like, whoa, we didn't realize we're so dependent on China for all our antibiotics or for all this manufacturing. So I think it's shaking up this globalization talk. But Saudi Arabia and Russia pumping that oil. You can say it's a political war. You can say they're just doing what's right for them. But the fact is it is

going to really hurt the US. Yeah, absolutely. It's going to probably kill the US oil markets, at least, you know, short term, potentially, you know, terminally long term. So now, let's talk a little bit more about Bitcoin here. Do you think that the pain is largely over for Bitcoin? Do you think that maybe 3,800 could have been a almost the bottom for Bitcoin? Or do you

think we're, you know, there's, you see people out there are gone for $2,000 Bitcoin, the column for $1,000 Bitcoin, you know, there are some very, very bearish people out there. And I think this happens every time we get, you know, bearish sentiment in the market. People go super, super bearish. But what's your, what's your thought on it? Yeah, I think we lost a lot of important

levels. So there's been a little bit of, like, technical damage you can say on the charts. But again, a part of me says that BitMex came out with that report that they were attacked the other day and the liquidation cascade. I just feel that price really got hammered lower than what it would have been if we didn't have these 100 extra-rivity markets in terms of amount

of people that would have sold. But then that changes people's sentiment. People say, well, cheese Bitcoin really isn't holding up well in these times. They see $4,000 instead of maybe it would have sold down to say six and they say, oh, that's not too bad. So we need to take all that into account. I just think that you need to zoom out and look at that

weekly chart, because day to day, I don't think that's going to spend very long down here. We could have a good weekly close again. Look, if we don't, and there's a lot of volume down here, then we've got to start looking at those lower levels. But for the time being, it's just a pretty big week on the chart that was dragged down by, by BitMex. So

we're hearing stories of the huge OTC demand in China again, whether or not you believe that. But anyone with free capital at the moment, I know personally, I've been saying to put some of my super dollar cost averaging here at these prizes. I just think people believe the Bitcoin narrative. It's got stronger with all the QE and everything. If you get to $2,000 Bitcoin, it's going

to be a lot of people that want to put that in there. They're super or they're hardware, well, that's it. That's it. I think actually it's really open the door for a lot of people who might be able to buy the Bitcoin. It might have been on the sidelines and looking at Bitcoin at $10,000. I feel like I missed the boat on that. Now it's back

down to $5,000 or $4,800, whatever it happens to be a time of recording this. And they're thinking, hmm, that seems to have sold off a lot harder than a lot of other things. Maybe now is an interesting time to get back into this, especially considering all the stuff that's going on. Of course, they understand the value propositions of Bitcoin. Yeah, I just, you couldn't make up

a more bullish narrative. You know, years ago, when people were going to Bitcoin, because of, there's all these debts and there's inflation and whatnot. We didn't have negative interest rates, QE, repo markets, talks of cash bands. I mean, I tweeted that list the other day of more than a dozen things. And it is scary. Yesterday, there were like 12 announcements every hour. There was more coming

out. So if this is starting to snowball now, it's never been more clear that this system has failed. And there's just this perfect digital system seeing there. That's just waiting for more people to utilize it. Well, you know, maybe one, one bonus of all the self isolations, people will have more time to, you know, stay at home, watch YouTube videos, hit the like button for the

YouTube algorithm, all that fun kind of stuff, you know, and actually just learn about, you know, Bitcoin and cryptocurrency. Hopefully they don't just spend all their time watching cat videos. No, I mean, that's where it's important for people like ourselves to give people that education and information. And I completely agree. People are going to be at home and they're going to be asking questions. That video

we did the other day with Rowe. That's really taken off people want to know what is happening. And they turn on the news. We're in Australia. The prime minister's telling them that he's going to the foot of this weekend and tweeting that it's just a bad flu. Our central bank is telling people that QE is unlikely. Literally 38 days later, they're saying we're going to do

QE. Like it's just complete trust and faith in our leaders is gone. And people, you see it in our comments. I'm sure you do too. You know, people are so glad that we are giving them accurate and up to that information because they just can't get it. So like in my opinion, people are saying more people are going to go down the rabbit hole when they

lose their job and they seem to find what's going on. That's it. By the way, for anyone who hasn't seen that interview that Alex did with Rowe, that's cool. What you got to go check it. I'll leave the link to that down below in the description. So do go check that out. Of course, make sure you subscribe to none of this news if you guys aren't

subscribed. You're even doing some amazing work over there on your channel, maybe without a doubt. Now one thing, the final topic for you for us today. I want to talk a little bit about we've talked about Bitcoin, but what about Ethereum? What are your thoughts on Ethereum right now? We saw gas fees just go through the roof the other day during the height of the crisis.

It really I think kind of underlined that Ethereum at 15 to 17 transactions per second is struggling in times of high demand. Yeah. Again, I think that Bitcoin and Ethereum aren't competitors at all. There's never been a more bullish case for a decentralized world than what we are seeing right now. People working from home remotely, blah, blah, blah. That case is getting stronger. In terms of

the scaling, we've seen a lot of breakthroughs lately. ZK roll ups, optimistic roll ups, loop ring have rolled out their decks. They'll know they're tweeting about, hey guys, if you had been using us, this is how much lower gas fees would have been. God's unchained have solved the scaling problem with the number of transactions that they are doing. So all the solutions are there. It's just

a matter of implementing them and rolling them out. And that's going to take a bit of time and the switch to proof of stake. So I'm very, very excited. I don't know what we've probably seen. A bit of a short term failure in terms of defying flash loans and a lot of learning lessons from what's going on there. But again, when I look at that from

the outside looking here, these guys that are so text smart, they don't have the finance side of things really. And they're like, oh geez, we didn't have a lot of liquidity there. If that order book gets pushed down, someone can arbitrage that we didn't think of that. So that's kind of this world where these teams need business-minded people, finance-minded people. Because at the moment, it's all

the tech guys. Because they're just building it out and they're going, oh, this works in theory. We didn't think about the game theory of this. That's a really, really good point. We're still so early right now with decentralized finance applications. In particular, I have a look at some of the other things being built on Ethereum. They're all different value proposition when it comes to collectible cards

or something like that. But we actually look at these DeFi applications with the different exchanges and protocols. There's a lot of risk that remains right now because this is, you hit the nail on the head. You have nerds making cool code and stuff that works. But then you have other people who have that more economic mind. They come in and say, I can game this. I

can game this and make lots, lots of money. We've seen that happen. We'll see it happen again. Yeah. I think Chainlink got integrated into the BZX to prevent that happening. And they were using Kiber as a price feed. And Kiber was saying, guys, where are DeX? Like, we're not a price feed. So already, that's just an instance of the community coming together and integrating different protocols,

the ligots together and they've already solved that problem, hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Awesome. Alex, thank you so much for coming on to have a chat with me today about everything that's going on the market. We could go on for hours. There's so much going on. It's absolutely crazy. And again, everyone out there. That link down below. Check out the RELA. We'll pull Paul video and also

make sure to subscribe to Nugget's new great channel with lots of great information. Alex, thank you so much. Thanks so much for having me on like. You're doing great work as well. I know we're both going to be very busy with everything happening. So I have to catch up again soon. Absolutely. Thank you. Cheers, guys.