Orca's Milan Patel Explains GamiFi

Hi, my name is Antito. This is CryptoKid Podcast. I'm going to be talking to you guys about blockchain technology and cryptocurrency. Welcome to CryptoKid Podcast. Today I have a special guest from Orca. And go ahead, man. Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got involved with the company. Hey, thanks for having me on. Yeah, my name is Milan. And I lead this development

for Orca. I've been doing crypto for quite a few years now, but I got into Salana in 2020 and was working on validated infrastructure. So setting up a lot of difference and then basically being the backend for a bunch of these chains while working there. Salana was one of the more interesting projects I found and and new utaro from when I was getting into crypto and

Utah is one of the co founders of Orca. So we were chatting and network as a great project. So as a personal personally, I was using it since they launched and thought it was wonderful. So opportunity to join and kind of help build up the ecosystem for and Salana more broadly, thought of a good and so far. Yeah, it's been been a lot of fun building

in terms of inside of Salana and with all the other folks that are in the ecosystem. It's really interesting because I hear a lot of good things about Salana, the blockchain and everything right. And I was doing a little bit of research on your YouTube and I'm kind of I'm a little bit confused and hopefully you can clarify that for me. Now you guys have like

pools and and ways to earn money. And then it's also gaming too. So how do you how do you put that together? Yeah. So Orca is part of D5. So it's decentralized finance. So it's a protocol built on top of a blockchain and unlike a centralized exchange, which is pretty much running all the transactions. So as I said, as a server, this is actually running more

contract that runs on top of that blockchain in this case, it's Salana. So yet, there's a lot of different things that you can do in D5, whether it's for pools or assets with other D5 protocols. One aspect of that is for games that are want to integrate Web 3 and crypto into their game. Yeah, so as an AMM, it allows you to swap any two assets

from each other. So one vertical within Orca can help you. So that's what I'm talking about. It's game five and basically types of games. So an example of that would be if you ever play the devil or age of empires, even like settlers of cotton, you might have some wood, some gold, some iron, and a bunch of different assets that you know game. And orca would

actually just be the centralized infrastructure provider for popping between those different assets. Given that we've seen a lot of game developers have interest, especially within the Salana ecosystem, the place that Orca then would basically be allowing to help power the economic engine. Behind the game so that they can focus on building what they love to build, which is the game itself and not necessarily the D5

infrastructure. Okay, okay, so how is Orca collaborating to the game fight environment though? Yeah, so I think earlier this year, if you were to step in, the game that you would be essentially walking around earning some in game currency. Orca was providing the pools behind the scenes for that one. So yeah, anyone who wanted to swap between like the currencies that they're earning could use Orca

and very strictly what they used was they basically created a pool on their own. So they create a pool, they have these two assets and then our SDK with support. Now these additional pools and they can integrate into their application, whether it's mobile or desktop, but I suppose it's kind of the more interest play, I guess personally, but yeah, so for the application, you would just

integrate our SDK and there's a few simple function there like swap asset A for asset B or add liquidity to this pool and essentially you can just do that natively in the app then. So one example and there's some other games that I'm doing. Yes, games that are kind of doing similarly for applications or even the desktop. All right, so it's not like your own game.

It's if you guys are collaborating with other games in the industry, like maybe like, for example, like, Meniverse, like come to us or. We'll go more one more of that was more familiar like Fortnite was say. Yep. Yeah, yeah, I actually. Exactly. So Orca is not a game developer. It's a protocol and I think our position for games is essentially twofold one to provide infrastructure. That's

really south. You wanted to use defying your game. So that's a smart contracts that allow you to pool and then use the pools. I think the other angle, which is probably what you see more from us more publicly education around like what makes a good pool. How do you build the liquidity and that pool and then how do you actually use that. So I think we'll

focus more on the education piece. So I think we're working with games studios that actually want to build the game itself. But yeah, Orca has no plans to go kind of its own game. Can you share any games that you're working with. There's one call of yes, no that just launched. I didn't try to but I do know that this integrated work into the application. I

think defyland is all which is probably more familiar with. Defyland is kind of this gamified farming platform and they also use kind of sobs behind the scenes other currencies. There's probably a few more, but they might not be public yet. Okay. All right. Now are you are you working with the maneuvers and NFTs to like are you applying that to Orca? Yeah, so. In so there's

unique and gamified compared to your competitors. Yes, I think essentially the game studios main goal is to make a fun. Game that people want to play and then have users on top of it and have a live users that can play with each other. Orcas main goal is just to have really secure and reliable. Defy infrastructure. So that's pretty much the main thing that we're offering

teams that if you don't want to learn everything about spark contract your own decentralized exchange. Yeah, essentially you don't want to all of that component, which is a big component. Orca kind of takes on the expertise and we audit. Our smart contract codes we have two audits from like Neodym and Kudelski. We stay on top of all the different changes at the base layer. So I

want to change this with transactions or or whatever other smaller optimizations they change we can basically be the ones that have the expertise to go ahead and implement that. Say I think it's just more security and the light is always just number one. And then beyond that we're building out all this tooling so our sd. SDK is definitely one big one, which is a lot of

things that you can see to tap into the pool without actually having to. You can but use all your knowledge from web to and the same coding and TypeScript or whatever else you want to tap into it. So definitely SDK. And then the third one, which we haven't started yet would be education. So like there's a lot to learn when you're building a game and especially

a game that incorporates crypto. So I think as Orca given me a lot of expertise there we can do education just to bring them up to see faster. Excellent, excellent. I like it. Now I know people are concerned about the how gas fees and ecosystem. So how do you how do you satisfy those hippies. Yeah, I mean that's one of the advantages of Salana reasons why

we built on Salana that you don't actually as a user have to calculate any gas fees. Otherwise as a every three music before. It was always interesting UX and UI or by itself and having like a very friendly user interface and an easy way to interact with the pools and basically that's like as a user. So if you're on the UI or even as a developer

with the SDK there's two different interfaces. So there's a bunch of tooling around it that definitely helps game game projects that are developing. What is the next big narrative. You're looking forward to and the future of game by. Let's see. Do you have any questions. Do you like I might have a couple but I'd be curious since I think you even more tapped into kind of

game by and NFT side. Me okay. So for the NFT side. What I like the most is that people are going to start using it for take a sales like concert venues. Place we have we yellow heart for example is really pushing. That that concept and working with the men of us and allowing people to go to concerts in the men of us. So it's kind

of it's kind of cool when it's interesting in the way and then they just have a bunch of other stuff going on right now they're going to be going to. Was it Miami D central here on the 27th through 28th. So I'm really and the way I got that ticket was through their app and NFT sales. So. I was able to. I was able to utilize

it and be almost almost the first person to use it compared to others whoever has. I can download it. But yeah that's that's what I'm most excited about the NFTs in the universe. Awesome. Yeah I definitely agree with with that like I think it would be really cool that if you got a ticket from. Ten years ago and just like some player win. Win in the

NBA you always hold on to that ticket. You know there's a fair battle. Very cool. I think there's a couple other areas in the NFT side which are on the speculation but basically credentialing. So for example you do a podcast you have a lot of expertise within Game Try and then community building like I imagine that other communities we could have given. You. Hey that might

say that you are an expert and it's like one credential from one. So you can rebuild your LinkedIn profile using NFTs basically. And it's like. The proof that you are an expert on all of these areas. Definitely cool. I think I'm sorry. The one that as a gamer personally. It's more unlocked value that all of these users are putting in every game that you've played whether

it's a skin or not you've gotten from some randomization. There's no way to take that that. So I remember as a kid we would trade on different forums like you would get this item in devil and then you would be trading it on a forum but there was no trustless way to trade that it was more. Yeah it was you were actually a trust person to

send you that item if you were to give it to them. So I think one you unlock a lot of value game by just giving the users the actual ownership. And then I think because of that you can have a lot more. To activity within the game especially on the inside. So every game has a gameplay and then have these several markets around it. And I

think in Web 2 very hard to tap into that market and then I actually use it but if you built it around crypto knowledge blue. Yeah you can essentially. You can allow a lot of people to unlock all the game assets. The hard work over the years to accumulate. Yeah and they become collectibles too. Absolutely. And also another thing that I wanted to point out about

that is I'm in the music and I feel like honestly I feel like artists are getting ripped off by their record labels. So and Travis Scott he launched NFT. But it failed. But it's just. It's it's it's guessable rolling and guess people's. Gear towards that that future and I think gamify is. Gearing towards the future and the way that the whole world is going to be

able to use Web 3 technology is just going to be something that. That happened like in the 90s with the internet like no one really understand it. But once we started getting it. It just it just took off from there just like boom and then you got like all these. And then we got like a major stocks. Most of them are technology companies like Microsoft Apple.

Some of the big ones Amazon. Google. So that that's all based on the internet. Yep. I hundred percent what you're saying here that basically we've just. Keep bringing the value back to users. And away from centralized institutions. So I think default example where it's like a centralized institution. And then we're going to capture a lot of stuff in finance. Defy brings it back to users. I

think in music as well. Like it's better than it was before probably. But because it gives you a lot more discovery around artists. So for example Spotify for a small artist maybe you have a better. Then 20 years ago. But still now you have some positions that. So in the context you basically just decrease and the trust needed but a lot of it is the cause

of maintaining this infrastructure. Whereas Spotify would need a really large team to maintain an app like Spotify. Or even YouTube. So if you can rebuild this and just take out a lot of the underlying costs. You can return a lot of the value back to where it was creating it. The creators community itself. So yeah, definitely agree with you on that spot on. Right, right. And

then basically blockchain was created. So I think it's a very important thing to do to give users control. Instead of instead of having a centralized to take over it. So. That's really that's really unique about blockchain technology. And Salon is case two and there's going to be plenty of more coming out. And it's just a matter of see who's going to be at the top in

the future. My personal opinion. I'm going to go to cryptocurrency. I don't think Bitcoin is going to stay at the top forever. But. Yeah, let's start with the cons. I think the cond and I love it. It's like much harder to build and it's this entire new. Expertise set that you need in order to incorporate it well. Whether it's how you build a game economy before

you could change around the rules a lot. In terms of this is how often we drop the site on if you've thought the stake you can kind of change it on later. I think it's a bit harder to do in three in crypto. Just harder to build and then there is no roadmap for what works well when you incorporate these markets into your game. So I

think like early on in the games like people probably made a bunch of this in terms of how they do it. Designed a game economy and the same thing will probably happen again in crypto and web theory. But then also a few years people will learn and make better and then they will become the core integral part of game fire. So I think those are the

cons. I think the pros we've kind of chatted about basically user control. So I who wants to build the who wants to thousands of dollars into a game like Fortnite and buy skins and then there's really no way to exit any of those skins. Like you always have told them on this one account. You can't transfer it over a friend and you want to give them

a skin like some games allow it and some games don't. And same thing with items. So I think it just opens up the and these are the things that we do now that we're kind of translating in and think it'll be better and more efficient in this game fire world. There's a whole bunch of new things that could come out as well. Yeah, which which we

probably haven't thought about yet. So one could be like how do you entangle different items. So I think you've probably seen a bunch of NFT projects that allow you to burn your NFT to get this new design on your NFT. So I think four to eight versus the version that they made or D gods versus dead gods. So there's a bunch of things that are that

are quite interesting. So you never know maybe it's like these four different items in a game. You get this super item. But people I think like Sparrow and build it out. But yeah, there's probably about just things that people make that we have no idea that they they can't. That's even possible. Yeah. Now with those cons and the I'm guessing that your team is facing those

kind of problems. How are you how are you encouraging them into being integrated and able to stay on focus and not get discouraged by by the naysayers by media by anybody that's opposed to this type of technology that are basically just not ready for it yet. So I think the hopes that these cryptocurrencies came out was that a group of people felt strong enough that the

financial wasn't serving the world. So they went out and build this like financial system. And then every wave or every few years as new people come in. That's like a new set of people that face problem and couldn't really get it. So they got the solution and they found this kind of alternative solution. So I think the same thing will kind of happen and probably the

artists too. So like the artists that have adopted NFTs and Web 3 and the physics protocols. They face the problem where they're like I'm not getting enough revenue from my streaming. I can't tap into my community well. And whichever portion of artists felt that problem significantly enough. Moving over and learning about Web 3. Probably some games studios like whichever ones have the problems. And field them

strongly will take the effort to go learn it. And then and then they won't want to go back because they see that it actually solves a bunch of the things that they faced in the past. I think it just takes you to acutely feel a problem and go in the solution and then you never really want to go back. Like if I asked you to write

a bunch of email or letters on camp on it, you would say that this is very inefficient. But 40 years ago, you wouldn't say it. But now yeah, it would look ridiculous. I have to be sending an email. Exactly. And exactly. It's just. So it's much faster if you need to get if you need to get something right away. So how are you dealing with regulations

and the locality of your company? That is interesting and probably outside of my purview. So given I do more business development work because system projects don't really focus too much and kind of the structure. But as a decentralized protocol. The end goal is always to be community on and be more of a public. It's not going to be a good. So it should be. Let's see

if there's any good projects that are done as well. It is kind of early. Like it's very hard to build a trust community in a couple of years, but. A unit is a good one. So if you're on Ethereum, like the unisob community compared to ago is much more dispersed, much more built out. Or Ethereum is all like Ethereum years ago was very centralized. And now

you see that there isn't really one sector that can influence it. And it is just governed by the holders of Ethereum. So I think that took seven years to get to the stage where people feel comfortable that it is getting a lot more decentralized. And I think everything else is all like it will just take on and getting more individuals and distributing control across. Yeah, a

community of people. And also everybody starts from somewhere you just I listened to what is it Alex Tate and he's he was I was a small one of his podcasts earlier. He was just saying. Start a business first. He's like, forget about getting a registered. Forget about getting an accountant. Make sure you actually have money coming in first before you go deal with all that other.

Basically, BS. So that's that's a smart move that what you guys are doing. And I'm definitely excited to see where you guys are going to be out in the future. And is there going to be any big moves before you close anything you want to share. Any community would be really interested in that maybe they haven't heard before. Or anything that we didn't cover that might

have seen. Are you talking are you asking me. Yeah, asking you. Are you can you repeat the question. I'm sorry you were kind of. Is there anything that we didn't cover or that you think like would be quite interesting even outside of or or an a tease or. Game try. But within crypto. Yes, actually, yes, I'm glad you asked that question. Thank you. So what do

you think about what do you think about the market winter and how and how everybody is just demonizing crypto currencies and say, I'm pointing the finger like, you lost all your money. Uh huh. Like how do you know, like. How do I say. What can you what can you say to encourage people that are in it right now to stay involved and to look forward to

the future. Yep. Yep. Um, yeah, first, I guess this week is a particularly interesting one and it sucks that a lot of these people lost their money. I would say that. The more of crypto is always trustless self custody. And having having your ability to manage your finances as you wish and not having the ability that someone else can censor it. For example, in this case,

kind of take it and use it for purposes elsewhere. And throughout history, we face this problem many times. So like in banking, especially you can see. Thanks as a power over and over again in different ways. We're seeing it in a different flavor in crypto in terms of like exchanges here. But. It's more of proof of the point of why you need crypto and you need.

Centralization, what's occurred in this past week, then proof that you don't need it. So like you will, I would essentially like purpose, why this happened would not be actually possible on. Or curve many decentralized protocols, where you are always if your funds, you can withdraw whenever you want. Everything is transparently laid out on top of a blockchain. And you can see all that data. Yeah, so

it sucks in the short, but in the long term. I can't really think of much better. Proof you would need beyond like a 2008 kind of financial system crisis of why you need these kind of decentralized systems. And it will a long time to get trust in that. Meaning, say a lot less people trust the Ethereum than they do now. But because it's functioned, it's functioned

for that long period of time. You build trust over time. And you know that that protocol is not breaking any rules because it's run based on code and the code executes as it as it does. There's no human intervention. And no, single party or no, like even group of 20 people could come in and try and change that. That's kind of the crux. Like it's always

sex in the middle, but long term, it is proof that decentralized systems will probably keep growing and more and more people will trust them. And long term, maybe they're the ones that run the majority of kind of markets across the world. A bunch of other things. Exactly. Just working on building the reputation. Now the biggest question I get is how can I support something that's not,

how can I support cryptocurrency that's not backed by anything? Like for, let me give you an example. I live in Florida. I just went through a couple hurricanes. How is out for about a week or two. And for those people that didn't have cash on hand, they couldn't even go to the ATM because the power grid was out to get cash. So like everybody was panicking.

And luckily I was prepared. I grew up here all my life. I've been through Hurricane Charlie back in 2004. And I just, I just knew what to expect. So just like fill up the gas tank, get plenty of cash, get plenty of water, get plenty of food. But there was people that were not prepared for that. And they're just like see if we go to cryptocurrency,

it's all electricity. It's all based on the power grid. So we're not going to be able to do anything. And then there would be a real pain. And if there was like a digital world and finances, if you know what I mean. Yep. I can't, I can't see what you're saying. It is true. And money and finance is a little bit tricky. But there is no

better alternative. Meaning like technology, basically, because you have the internet and you brought and technology have turned out to be a lot of money. And you're like, you're able to create the solution. That's all Bitcoin. And it takes away a lot of the concerns with money. It doesn't take away all of them. But it paired to everywhere else and kind of try getting the same properties.

And there's not many good alternatives. So for now, it's the best that there is. And it's a market improvement over what's been done historically. But I'm sure as this ecosystem continues growing similar to this country's economies. And if you're going to grow or banking systems grow, there's new ones as you get to more and more scale. We're seeing one of them this week with FTX where

new problems came out now that the centralized entity has a lot of scale. So yeah, I don't think I much else say I think if you look around, this is the newest one that technology has enabled. In general, usually technology pushes things in a positive direction or there are scenarios where it doesn't. But yeah, there's not too many better alternatives and money systems that. Better, better

on the property you would want for money and or even like. Anything you want to do in Web 3. So Spotify better than before. Pretty big. In the future, you can imagine that we knew problems with like a decentralized high. It will probably solve a bunch of the current big problems. And it will prepare for a lot of users and creators on that platform. I'm glad

you shared that I'm glad you share them and then I just want to point out to like. The people that had that had solar power, they were pretty much good. You know, they had their houses run. So I was like, you see like you all were talking trash about solar and now look what happened. You all are. Are suffering and. And our neighbors are doing great.

So that's that's kind of. That's a really good example because literally what you do when you put solar power on your house is you're exiting decentralized grid for electricity. You've created your own little decentralized bubble, which is your house as its own subsufficient power. So I hear we're talking about like self sufficient creation of music. Ownership of your money for your value. Yeah, so there are

when you put solar in your house, maybe this sort of panels break. It's better than the alternative where you just got cut off from the central is. And you still have communication with whoever. With people across the country or across the world and let your family know it. Yeah, let your family members know that your friends know. And so this is this is very exciting times

and we're just in the early days, man. And I think we covered everything. If you have something please let me know if you want some leaks for me to put down. I'll be more than happy to do that. Um, no, no, nothing else to cover. Thank you for the good questions. And yeah, thank you for doing education on crypto. I think there's a lot of. Misconceptions

around it. And it's. It's always good to just keep educating people more and more people come in, but hopefully they know. So that they can protect themselves from. From all the exist. So yeah, always appreciate what you do education and do a lot. So thank you. No problem, do no problem. And for those who are. Are trying to learn about cryptocurrency. It's just it's a never

any process. There's always something coming out like defi gain. Phi. DAOs, DOAs. I'm not a tech just. And every time I turn my head around, it's just there's always something to be learning. But once you go on the rabbit hole, I promise you you will not regret it because you'll be the ones teaching others about blockchain technology and cryptocurrency. So hey man, thanks for coming on

the show. And I hope to chat with you soon again in the future. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm like. No problem. Bye, everyone. Bye. We all want to feel connected to brands we buy from. What a better way to humanize a brand than through sharing your story on a podcast. Kidcaster is a podcast booking agency that's been. And it's been a very specializing

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