What Wagner chief was really planning, according to report

New reporting today that Wagner leader Yevgeny Prigozhin had some big plans, even bigger plans, before calling off his brief revolt. Western officials telling The Wall Street Journal that the Wagner leader plan to capture two of Putin's top ranking military leaders, the defense minister and the chief of Russia's general staff Officials also say that Prigozhin sped up his plans after the Kremlin was tipped off. We have

CNN's Nic Robertson with us now on this story. A fascinating development here. What can you tell us, Nic? Yes, Sergei Shoigu, the defense minister, Valery Grass, some of the army chief of staff. These were the two men who Prigozhin had been ranting against publicly for months in advance of this situation. So there's context and history to the allegation or the supposition of the intelligence services that

he was going to try to capture them. When Prigozhin went to Rostov on Don, that big Russian military headquarters with all his troops He said that that evening at 9 p.m. that evening, that Sergei Shoigu, the defense minister, had fled Rostov on Don. We'll learning other details from other Russian security chiefs. The Zoloft of the head of the National Guard said that they had got wind

So this picture that's being painted that Prigozhin was not just putting it was not just going to try to challenge the authority he was actually going to capture and kidnap, it appears. We don't know to do what with with the defense minister and the army chief of staff. It's quite a staggeringly brazen plot. But apparently people in his camp leaked to the Russian government what was

happening. How is the Russian military situation destabilized at this point with this New York Times reporting that Sergei Sorokin had advance knowledge of last weekend's mutiny? Assuming that is true, it's hard to know and whether or not it's true, because, of course, this is a time when Western intelligence agencies would love to loot low put seeds of doubt in the minds of of the Russian government,

and particularly in the minds of people in President Putin's mind right now. So so, Rob, can you Prigozhin, they worked together in Syria, both Prigozhin for his mercenary group, Sorokin as a general. So Ralph killed last year, had been put in charge of the Russian forces in Ukraine. And it actually stood up to President Putin. It's understood that he was the one that said you have

to pull out of the Harrison region and Prigozhin liked Sorokin. He said he was the only Russian general worth a star. Now, it's not clear if that like mutual like it's not clear if that was a mutual situation that Sorokin actually like Prigozhin. But there's perhaps evidence that at least Prigozhin thought perhaps he could trust Sorokin. We really don't know. But it appears when you sort

of analyze what happened on the ground, whether or not had put some faith in Sorokin or other generals, his ability to move into Rostov on Don, take control of the military headquarters, his ability to move troops further north raises that very pertinent question. How many other military generals had wind of this were actually on Prigozhin side but in the case of Sorokin, he very quickly, when

this began to unfold, came out in a video telling Prigozhin to back down, and it was noticeable that he actually had a Kalashnikov on his lap when he made that statement, which is which is sort of bizarre. Bizarre in itself. Yeah. Really, really interesting. Sort of Game of Thrones playing out as we see there in the Russian military. Nick, thank you for the report for us.

Let's expand the conversation now with retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. He's a former commanding general for the US Army, Europe and the Seventh Army general. Great to share an afternoon with you. Thanks for being with us. First on President Biden describing Vladimir Putin as being weakened by this attempted coup. What is the biggest threat right now to his grip on power in Russia? You know, there's

there's a lot more of this. I'll just use Nick's words. It best describes it bizarre. You know, the last couple of years, I was in the service in Europe. There were daily intelligence reports coming across about Russia. And it was always speculation Russian leaning toward confirmation bias, internal military rumors about what was going on in the Russian military from different channels. Kremlin power plays. And you

mix that all with the deception operations. The so-called Moscow rock that the Russians do all the time would always be confusing But that is now on steroids because of the actions over the past weekend. You have the personalities of Shoigu Putin. Prigozhin served weekend is, as Nick just mentioned, gruesome off the chief of of the equivalent of the chairman of the Joint Staff. You also have

another guy that hasn't been mentioned all that much a guy named Zala Toff, who is the Russian National Guard commander, who's a Kremlin insider, all throwing out these rumors of how bad things are. But I got to tell you, Boris, this is more of an understanding that Russian military and their government is a proverbial nesting doll of dysfunction, but it is gone on steroids right now

in terms of all the craziness that's happening. And yes, Putin is weakened by all that. You can tell by the the effects he's had over the last couple of days and what he's been doing to try and thwart the rumors that are swirling around his government and his military Yeah, that kind of speculation rampant, the sort of Kremlinology of who's doing what. There's always intrigue around

Putin and his generals. But on that note, you mentioned the confusion. How does that play out on the battlefield in Ukraine? Well, there's already reports now coming from inside of Russia. And these are rumors, again, not been verified. But Sir Boykin has been put in jail. So if the commander on the front is now in jail, not may not be true, then that would cause more

dysfunction, because that boils down to the troop level. What's going on in the foxhole and what we're seeing, too, combined with the potential for Ukraine's forces generating increasing momentum over the last several weeks and admitting they haven't even started the major counteroffensive yet, they're still conducting shaping operation that would probably give the Russian soldiers on the front line a little bit more pause and cause an

even decreased morale on the front. And Russian morale has not been very good since the beginning 16 months ago of this operation, this invasion. So it can only get worse. It can't get better. We have looked into or we are, I should say, looking into reports of the arrests that you mentioned. CNN is working to confirm them. So obviously, we will bring that news as it

comes out. But should we anticipate a purge by Putin of some of his top officials, especially if he considers them threats that that could be a course of action, Boris. But truthfully, you know, I think there is a problem with that because Russia is currently in a defensive state. They have their defensive operations ongoing against an increase, like I said, an increasing Ukrainian momentum on the

front. So now is not the time you want to purge. You want to do a purge during peacetime when you can quickly replace commanders in the field. Now, we may see more replacements of Russian generals Russian colonels on the front. But truthfully, Boris, we've been seeing that since the beginning. The number of replacements due to ineffectiveness, inefficiencies and death and casualties on the front line of

senior leaders has just been remarkable in this campaign. It's a lot has occurred on the Russian side. We may see a purge. I wouldn't bet on that, but you could certainly see a lot of high ranking officials replaced. I'm watching very closely grab some up and show you and what happens to them. Everyone seems to be focused on and what I'd like to see is what's

happening inside of the Kremlin. And that could also affect this guys. All the top the National Guard commander, because he is the true Kremlin insider. He he's a general that's been inside that the Kremlin, much like a lot of our military or inside the Pentagon for a very long time, doesn't have the field savvy, but he's very close to Putin, a nesting doll of dysfunction. Quite

an assessment from General Mark Hertling. Thanks so much for being with us today.