Making the Most of the Bodies We Have

Okay, I am going to go for a run. It is a beautiful day. It's slightly cloudy, 74 degrees. That's me outside of my house last month as I was getting ready to start one of my favorite exercises. Just put it on my shoes here. I've been running for a long time, I love it. It makes me feel like I have some control in my life. And

yes, it makes me feel like I'm doing something good for my body. My love for running is not diminished as I've gotten older. In fact, I started to tradition many years ago. You know, while I get checked out by my doctors, I also wanted to check in on myself in my own personal way. I wanted to keep track of how my body was holding up over

the years. So I run a mile every year on my birthday. My typical run is four to six miles, but I run one mile, same route. Every year on my birthday, I've been doing that for the last 15 years roughly. And I am proud to say that I certainly have not gotten any slower, but in fact, may have gotten a little bit faster. People measure age

in all kinds of ways. Most of us start with a number of years. But as I've started to discover on this season of the podcast, that doesn't really tell me the whole story. The way that I look at it is by checking in on myself, how am I doing? If I can run a little bit faster this year than the year before, I feel like I'm

doing something great. All right. Here we go. My pace, just in case you're curious. And this is good for me, not as good for other people. It was about seven minutes, 15 seconds, a mile. But now I'm going to shut up, settle in, and just run. Okay. Just finished up. Let's see here about four miles, 29 minutes. So what is that? Four miles, seven minutes, 15

seconds, just hey, I'm not getting any younger, but I'm maybe not getting that much older either. Talking to my own parents in our last episode, really did shift my perspective on what getting older can look like. They seem to be quite literally living their best lives. And they're in their late 70s and early 80s. They're enjoying their free time. They have relatively few health issues. And

honestly, it was surprising. I mean, even if you have a positive attitude, when it comes to aging, I guess there's no denying that our bodies do go through some changes. But I kept hearing it over and over again. Aging is not linear. It's not that another year equals another year of decline. Instead, we have these bursts of aging. And even they don't necessarily slow us down

or get in the way of living life to the fullest. So on today's episode, you're in for a treat. I'm going to have a conversation with one of the people I admire the most. Someone who truly embodies the phrase age is just a number. She is the person I conjure up in my mind when things are tough, when I have to dig deep. I get those

thousand burpees done twice a week. So who cares? Nobody. I just do it for me because I like being in that kind of shape. Nearly 10 years ago, Diana Nia did what everyone thought was impossible. She swam from Cuba to Florida at the age of 64, 110 miles, days and days without stopping. Now, she's going to tell us what her 70s look like. Spoiler alert, she

hasn't slowed down much. Plus a strength and conditioning coach is going to tell me why my long runs could actually be doing more harm than good for my body, especially as I get older. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's chief medical correspondent. And this is Chasing Life. I want to take you back to September 2nd, 2013. Diana Nia made history today, becoming the first person to swim

way. Just a remarkable fee. One of the doctors that we were talking to describe this as a race against her own body. Her journey to that moment of triumph was anything but straightforward. This was her fifth attempt. At the age of 64, the odds were certainly against her. In her first four tries, she was attacked by jellyfish, suffered an asthma attack at stuck in a lightning

storm. Nia at first attempted the swim in 1978 at the age of 29. Back then, she didn't even make it halfway. Then she actually stepped away from marathon swimming altogether. In fact, she stopped swimming for 30 years. But there's a funny thing about dreams. Even if they dim, they never disappear. And the goal of completing that swimmer Diana was always there in the back of her

mind. So more than three decades later, she's now in her late 50s, Nia had got back in the water to try again. Now her second attempt didn't go much better than the first. She tried twice more. And twice more, she did not succeed. But here's the thing. As her body was aging, her grip was growing. And finally, on that September day in 2013, Diana Nia finally

made it. And again, I just want to underline this. Diana was 64 years old at the time. Think about that. In fact, four of her five attempts came after she turned 60. I wouldn't get up because I can't. Did you just come down from this? Yes, I did. Life in the family. Just hours after Diana emerged from the water, face and lips all swollen. I sat

down with her for an interview. Now as you listen to this, remember, you are hearing from a woman who just finished swimming without stopping 110 miles more than 53 hours through that scorching heat and complete darkness. This is your fifth attempt. How are you physically? You know, now? I'm a flower. It's an incredible task. And I'll share with you. And you know, my mom, I mean,

she's one of your biggest fans. Ronnie. Ronnie. She was emailing me all day today. And my kids. But obviously, I think for people who are in their 60s, they look at you and they say, I can do anything. Is that a message? Oh, absolutely. I don't wake up gay or even female or 64. I just wake up like a... Get me out of another day, you

know? So it's not vanity, but it's more like kind of fitness and youth. I think that I'm just the youngest 64-year-old living. And I go by a store window sometimes and catch my son at me on the day. Oh no. You're right on 64, especially with the son of the agent of the lab. So now nearly 10 years later, after that amazing swim, I sat down

with Diana again. Do you feel that way about yourself at 73? Are you the youngest 73-year-old? You know, I do. I think I would sort of now a little more humble as I get older, Sanjay. I would leave off in the world. You said whoever lived. You said who ever lived. It's yeah, not just in the world today, but who ever lived. Yeah. I'm going to

come off that a little bit and just say that I'm 73 and I feel pretty damn good. We've kept in touch since our historic swim, but we have not sat down for a conversation like this in a long time. And now that I am also 10 years older, closer to 60 myself, I wanted to find out how she had approached the training and preparation for such

a grueling swim when she was in her 60s. How much did your body change? Could you get a sense of how much your body had changed between over those 30 years, roughly? Yeah. I think clearly because, you know, as an athlete, you have measurements, you know, even if they're not empirical measurements, you have your own feelings of your body. And truthfully, and I would say that

today, we're now sitting here 10 years. I did that swim at age 64. I'll be 74 in a month or two. And I think that the one thing that was clearly lesser when I was in my 60s and my 20s was speed. But all the rest of it, we can start with the physical. The actual power of the shoulders, ability to recuperate after a very different,

like a long 16 hour swim in very rough seas. I recuperated better in my 60s than I did in my 20s. Much better. And yeah, much better. And the mind, I know for me, it had to do with gratitude and appreciation. One thing I remember about you as well, like those times when you were when you're doing these long swims, just swim. And you would simply,

you would create music, for example, or you'd sing songs. And I think if I remember correctly, me and Bobby McGee, 2000 times was eight hours and 45 minutes. Am I right about that? 1000 times, 9 hours and 45 minutes. And you'd sing it and count. Yeah. And then do it again. And then. Yeah. Yeah. I'm out there. And you know, I take my own version. It

really is Janice Joplin's voice in my ears. In this sport, you're not allowed to wear headphones. I would take Janice Joplin's Bobby McGee. And I know that song very well from the first note to the last, but in order to get it to 1000 versus I curtailed it somewhat, I took a couple of stanzas out. So I'd be, you know, left arm starting with the flood

and bad news. Waiting for the train. Feeling about as faded as my jeans won't. Bobby found a diesel down. I was in it. I was, I was here and I was I could be dancing if I could. I'm hearing Janice Joplin's voice. I'm in the rhythm. And I'm feeling every word, even a thousand times into it. You know, right to the end. Hey, Bob in the

gear. That was 622. Let's go. Busted, flattened, bad news. So yeah, that got me through a lot of hours. Beyond the mental strength, it must have taken to stay focused on that swim stroke after stroke. What I was especially struck by was what Diana said about recuperating faster in her 60s than she did in her 20s. In fact, it echoed something my parents said in the

last episode of the podcast. Remember now there in their late 70s early 80s, but they told me they don't really have many aches and pains. They are not constantly stiff and sore. And that really flies in the face of what I think many of us anticipate about getting older, that we are doomed to a life lived in slow motion. Now every person's situation is different. For

sure, but Diana also said it doesn't have to be that way. You know, for instance, I was at a gathering, a talk and we had a little Q&A afterwards. And one woman stands up, the microphone. And she says, you know, Diana, I'm exactly your age. And you know how it is at our age, you get up. And you're just stiff. Your knees and your shoulders. And

I said, you know, with all due respect, you have to speak for yourself. Don't go around saying, all people our age are feeling this. I feel no stiffness whatsoever. I wake up in the morning and I found out a bed loose and limber and ready to go. And I do think that at the bottom of that, besides mental attitude and genetics, I think the bottom is

just movement. If you're just up in your active, you decide you live in a house with a second floor and you decide, Oh, you know, I forgot. I forgot I got to get up. But I'm going to wait. I don't want to walk upstairs and then have to do it. But again, later, I'll wait until I need three things from upstairs. No, just go upstairs and

come back downstairs. Get out and walk and get your newspaper. Get to know your neighborhood. Go walk for your coffee. You know, just if you keep it all moving, chances are, it's going to all stay a little bit, you know, more limber. And I have taken, I built a cold plunge in my house outside. And I keep it at 38 degrees. So just like those football

players who are in the ice tubs and you know, we look through history. You know, soldiers have used ice, you know, to recuperate and inflammation and stiffness to recover from all that. When I get in that cold plunge and the longest I ever stayed is six, six minutes. When I get in for two, three, four, five, six minutes, when I get out, every little bit of

stiffness of the ankles, the knees, the hips, the shoulders, the neck, it's gone. There has been a lot of interest in cold plunges lately. While they aren't for everyone and they can cause a sudden increase in heart rate and blood pressure, proponent say they can also stimulate your immune system, reduce inflammation and force fluid through your lymph nodes, decreasing swelling and puffiness. But more studies obviously

are still needed. You obviously are moving a lot. You talked about these cold plunges. But if you look at your overall fitness routine now compared to, let's say before 63 before 64 when you did the swim before you were 64, how is your fitness routine changed over the last decade? You know, I like a lot of people I rotate into things. And now that I'm through

with the Cuba swim, of course, I'm not training like that. And we that takes your entire day, your entire life. So I can't do that. And I do swim and I do play tennis. But Sanjay also I'm, I'm still in that that kind of extreme endurance thing. And I don't care if anybody knows about it. I go in my garage two days a week. I work

out every day. But two days a week, usually Monday and Thursday, I go in my garage and I get ready. I'm hydrated. I like get up for it. Like it's a, you know, like it's a big deal almost race. And I do a thousand burpees. Now I don't do the pushup. I'm not going to do a thousand, you know, with with the pushup. And I do

a thousand. And every hundred, I stop for about 30 seconds. You just walk around, drink a little bit. And I'm starting to sweat by the end. I'm trembling. But that thousand takes me two hours and 50 minutes approximately each time. And that workout is important to me. If I'm in a hotel room and traveling, I save the time for it. I don't go out to dinner.

I get those thousand burpees done twice a week. So who cares? Nobody. I just do it for me. Cause I like being in that kind of shape. Is there advice that you would give to people who are getting into there, maybe into their 60s or 70s? You're not scared of aging. Are you? Yeah. I'm not. I mean, you know, what I'm scared of is regrets. I

don't want to get to the last breath and feel like there was just, of course, it's always short. All of us, you know, I would say virtually all of us when we reached the last breath, we say, we wish there was more time. And we could have done more, help more people, gone more places, et cetera. So, you know, that's just a big broad sort of,

you know, view of it. But I think that what, what, what is really crucial besides movement as we get older, our goals, you know, it's sort of like when people look to retirement and fair enough, if someone's worked since the day they got out of college or graduate school and they've worked until they know, they don't work anymore, 66 or 70 or 74, whatever it is,

they feel like they deserve just doing nothing. Just go and look at the sunset and walk your dogs on the beach and, you know, just just make it up moment by moment during the day. But I personally think that the, the human condition is to, is to, I guess we'll get back to the world we used in the very beginning is to seek. And we often

keep going on with your potential, so you may be older and running a marathon is not your thing. But what if you took a look and said, you know, the Chicago Marathon's in October. I've been walking almost 10 miles a day. Could I walk 26.2 miles? Wouldn't that be a kicking the pants? I'm gonna finish way behind almost all the field, but wouldn't that be a

kick in the pants and give me something, gosh, wake up for every day. Along with going to the sunrise and walking your dog. That it's part of, it's part of human nature to have goals. And I think it keeps you younger, keeps you motivated, keeps your system excited. I think that is such a valuable takeaway. Life is short, but that doesn't mean it can't be filled

with so many rich experiences. Diana makes this point about having the courage to fail. You're never going to discover your full potential if you don't put yourself out there and just try something new. Even if you fail at first, it can unlock something in you that you didn't even know was there. I think that's exactly what Diana has done throughout her life. She has had the

courage to fail. And she did fail multiple times before she accomplished what many thought was impossible. You know, over the years, I've often thought to myself someone should make a movie about her life. Well, turns out they are. In fact, it's due out later this year. And that bending plays Diana. And Jody Foster will play Bonnie Stoll. Having a movie made about your life is a

real wow moment for anyone. Even someone as amazing as Diana. That's the best word. That's the most articular word about it all. And you know, they're calling the movie Nyan. So I could just close my eyes and go to sleep after this thing comes out. It's just it's honestly it's almost beyond belief. Well, I'm lucky to know you. I'm lucky to know you. I'm lucky to

know you. I take great pride and I you know, I talk about you all the time and Diana and I at know her. Oh yeah, no, I know her. I think we might even she might even call me a friend. I'm not sure, you know, but I think you can be sure. Okay. You can be sure you are my good friend, Sanjay. Now look, most of

us are not doing a thousand burpees twice a week like Diana. And remember again, she's 73. But you also don't have to be an elite athlete to feel good about your body. Maybe you just lift weights from time to time. You go for a bike ride, just walk around the neighborhood. And as you heard at the start of the episode, I myself like a good run.

But also as we get older, should our fitness routines change as well. It's my belief that endurance training does more harm than good when it comes to aging. An exercise expert is going to set me straight right after the break. And now back to chasing life. If you're comfortable answering how old you are and how old do you feel? I'm 60. And he's also the founder

of Age Performance, a Salt Lake city based gym that cater specifically to older bodies. Paul says Fitness and Exercise has been a passion of his ever since he was in high school. I was too kind of getting shaped for, I think it was for football coming up in the summertime. And after my run, I finished and I felt so good. I literally said to myself, I

will do this the rest of my life. But it wasn't until he was a student at the University of Utah doing some research on strength training for older adults that this connection between exercise and aging really came into focus for him. At the same time, I went to visit my uncle in a extended care facility. And as I was walking out, I just had this thought,

I thought, what would happen if you did really aggressive strength training with these older adults in this extended care facility? I thought, either kill them or make them better. And it was just a thought. Then in 1994, the findings from major study were published in the New England Journal of Medicine. The experiment looked like this. Dr. Maria Fiatarone of Tufts University took 100 very elderly, very

frail Boston area nursing home residents and did something that really hadn't been done before. She brought about half of them to the gym and put them through a workout program. And a tough one at that. For 10 weeks, they were subjected to a regular routine of high intensity knee and hip exercises. At the end of the trial, the researchers compared results in areas like muscle strength,

walking speed and stair climbing ability to the group who hadn't done the exercises. What they found was improvements across the board, only among those who did the high intensity workouts. Paul became so intrigued by the results, he felt he had to get in on it. And so I called up and asked if I could do my internship there. And they said, sure. Dr. Fiatarone asked if

I would go down there and work with these older adults. Now these were this. This was about a year after the study, but they were still working with them. But she sent me down and she said this. She said, don't baby them. She basically said, you know, work them hard. So when you started to do this sort of training with with older adults. And I guess

maybe we're talking seniors here, people at least 65 years old. What did you find? How did those older people respond to that very intense activity? Very favorably. Now if you look at the results from that study in 1994, it was absolutely remarkable. Now the average age of the people in this extended care facility was 87. They improved their strength over 110%. They improved their ability to

climb stairs, 28%. And then their walking speed improved, I believe, half mile an hour. But what also happened that they weren't really looking for is they became more social. They beat their social activities became more prominent. They were able to go do more things. And that was something that I was going to say. And Paul said the experience of training those older adults fundamentally reshaped the

way he thinks about exercise as we age. In fact, for a moment, just think about how the exercise industry has marketed working out to past generations, like my parents. Whether it's Jane Fonda and her popular workout videos. Steve pre-fondane and Nike. There was a culture and the culture was of running aerobics classes and constant motion. Even now in 2023, if you walk by a gym, you're

likely to see a good chunk of people on the treadmill or the elliptical. And Paul said, we need to pump the brakes on that a bit. I think there really needs to be a shift here on how or what we think about endurance exercise. Of course, it's important to work the heart and lungs. But we also know that high intensity interval training is beneficial for the

heart and lungs. And if you're engaged in that, you're most likely going to be working your fast twitch muscle fiber. And I sometimes talk on the extrinsic. But it's my belief that endurance training does more harm than good when it comes to aging. I know that's a, right? That's a strong statement. But sometimes when I go and do presentations, I say that to kind of get

our thinking back on the other side of the pendulum. Paul's right. That is a strong statement. And it's basically the opposite of what Diana NIET continues to practice into her 70s. She's all about endurance. But before we get to the point, we're going to talk about how to do this, but I'll say. I want to decode some of the exercise lingo we're talking about here. You're

going to hear the term high intensity interval training or hit. This is really short but intense bursts of fast action with periods of rest in between. That is different from endurance or aerobic exercises like jogging or rowing or even dancing. You do those over a longer period of time at a steadier pace. There's also resistance training using weights and bands or even pushing against the weight

of your own body to build muscle mass. Now here's where it all comes together. As we age, you got to think about what's really happening to your body. Because those changes not only impact what kind of exercise we may want to try, but they also impact the way that we move our bodies through the world. Holbrook says there are many changes to consider. There's a lot.

There's lots of balance. There's lots of bone density. There's lots of muscle. And to me, that's the fascinating part because there's two types of muscle fibers, right? Type one muscle fiber is muscle that allows us to do endurance kinds of activities, whether that's sitting for a long period of time, standing for a long period of time, walking, running marathons. The fast twitch muscle fiber is fiber

we have that allows us to do quick, fast things, throwing, jumping, sprinting, recovering from a stumble. That's the critical part because as we get older, research has shown that we lose the fast twitch muscle fiber faster than the slow twitch muscle fiber. So no wonder why we move slower when we get older. You have a lot of people who they do their power walks. They may

go for jobs. They have what is called the steady state cardio workout. Compared to the slow twitch muscle fiber, you can see that there's a lot of muscle fiber that's going to be a lot of muscle fiber. So I think I know where you stand on this, but is there is there enough to say at this point that one is better than the other as you

age? Yes, there's no reason to do the long endurance work in terms of aging. There is just absolutely no reason because studies have shown that high intensity interval training is a very effective way to exercise the hard lungs. And the endurance work, I believe, impedes with our ability to move quickly. And here's the thing, working on speed work or hit training will improve endurance. But endurance

work is not going to improve your speed. Here's what I'm going to get if I do hit training or speed and power training. I'm going to get to be a faster moving person. I'm going to increase my strength, by the way. So it's not like I'm in a minimize much. I am going to get stronger. And I'm going to improve my balance. Now I'm not advocating

people to go out there and sprint because I take some training and being adaptable to that kind of training to do that. So there is more risk involved, but there's other things you can do to work fast twitch muscle fiber rather than sprinting. I really hope people are paying attention because I think that the idea that if you're going to create a routine for your self

that like you say walking is okay. It doesn't seem to interfere with the fast twitch desirable fast twitch muscles. And then making sure you're doing resistance training on whatever it is every other day or every number of days a week. But running or jogging, you're saying could interfere with that. So your ideal workout plan would be more walking on certain days and resistance training on other

days. Yes. Yes. In a nutshell. You know, I got to say that one of the biggest concerns that I have for my own parents and maybe you've had this concern for either your parents or your clients. Biggest concern is falls. And I was trying to explain this to my dad the other day that you take 40 years of risk mitigation. You know, cholesterol, lowering medications, blood

pressure medications, all these things. And you know, it can work really well. If you have a fall in your in your 80s, it's essentially like consolidating all of that risk. 40 years worth of risk into a split second or you know, a minute. And it really worries me, Paul. And I think part of the reason I got so interested in your work is this idea that.

Okay, we're doing the aerobic activity to try and ward off heart disease, decrease weight, which could, you know, ward off diabetes, things like that. But if you don't have the fast twitch, if you don't have the balance, if you don't have the strength, then you're more likely to have a fall. And that, that's a problem. That's a real problem. So let me, let me give you

an example of one of our clients in relation to what you're saying about falls. In his home, he was carrying some things up his stairs in his home. And he fell down the stairs and broke his neck. Yes. And so right, we know what happens when somebody falls and breaks a hip or a neck or whatever at that age, he went through. We have. And then

I think it was nine months later, a year later, he was back in our facility, working out. He still is. The fact he's there right now, working out with his trainer. He's back in the game. He's back in his home. He's peaceful. He's functional. Of course he has neck issues, but he's even getting better at that. So because he did all that training beforehand, I believe

that's what really literally saved his life. Fast twitch versus slow twitch strength versus aerobic. If you think about it again, as Paul said, if you're doing the high intensity interval training, if you're doing the resistance exercises, you're really getting both. You're getting the strength. You're getting the motor movement and you're getting the balance. So important as we think about it, think about those falls in someone

who is elderly, a fall can be deadly. So if you're going to exercise and you should think about improving the fast twitch muscle fibers, which gives you that balance and that strength to prevent those falls, as well as giving you cardiovascular benefit as well. So with all that in mind, I wanted to get some examples of relatively simple exercises that I could try at home, that

you could try at home to really activate some of those fast twitch muscles that Paul's been talking about. And as you listen to these, keep in mind, these can be done at any age. For example, going to some stairs and just running a step at a time, like just four of them, like one, two, three, four. And then walk back down, rest for 20 seconds, 30

and do that again. But as fast as you can safely. So just doing four quick steps, one, two, three, four. Back at your own and then walk back down, rest for a little bit. To recover enough, to make the next set really effective, real quality work and just do three or four of them. That's it. My parents are in their 80s, who I guarantee you are

listening right now. Can they start this sort of program? Do you think? I mean, is there an age where it becomes prohibitive? I don't think so. So one thing they can do, I love this exercise is simply sitting in a chair that has arms. To it so that you can use your arms to push off on the arms of the chair and get up as quickly

as you can. Well, we would think normally we would think, well, that's cheating. You can't use your arms. You can, you can use your leg strength. Hey, not really. Your body is your body. Your body works as one unit. Go ahead and get up out of that chair as fast as you can using arms legs, anything, anything you have. And then slowly sit back down. Do

it again, slowly and do just do five of them. Rest, maybe do another set of five. Another thing you people can do is to get down on the floor on their back if they can. And then quickly get up from the floor. Now be careful that you don't get dizzy when you stand up fast. So you need to test yourself and start out slowly. But getting

up from the floor quickly is another great exercise. No one should should have a complaint about not having enough time either. Because that is something I hear from people a lot. I don't have time to exercise, but this is quick what you're describing. It is. You know, we have to make time to do this. We have to make it a priority because it's that important. Remember

at the start of the episode when I was talking about my birthday miles. Now after hearing Paul say how he believes endurance training does more harm than good when it comes to aging, I started to wonder if it was something that I should keep doing. I got to tell you something that I do every year on my birthday. And I'm not sure if you're going to

like this or not, but I run a mile on my birthday every year. I run, I do run other times of the year as well. But part of my goal is, and I run fast. I run as basically as fast as I can for that mile. And I'm trying to see. Am I, am I getting slower? Am I getting faster? And I take great pride in

the fact that over the last few years now, I've been getting faster. My times have gone down in terms of that. Bad idea. That's phenomenal. That really, really is. I love it. And I kind of don't know what to say about it. You know, um, okay. I'll go into my little, um, my belief system here. Um, so why not do one lap and see how fast

you can do one lap. We're born with the ability to move quickly. And an early age and in grade school, middle school, high school. We probably are doing a lot of fast, quick movements. It's just that when we hit college and we start to go into the workforce, we stop doing fast movements. But it's, I truly believe that if we keep those fast movements up, we

won't lose the ability to do them. I find that deeply inspiring. And I think there's this, there's this notion that's preordained that as you get older, you're going to get significantly weaker, significantly slower, significantly slumped over significantly, imbalanced, whatever it may be. And that's not necessarily the case. You're, you're an example of that. You're not old. You're 60, but I've traveled the places around the world

where you do see people in their 90s, people who are sentinarians, and they're walking upright, they're driving, they will do intense activity. You know, it's, that, they show you what is possible. I think it starts there. People come in all the time. And as we get older, we often talk about things that are happening to our bodies, things that are not so favorable. Oh, our through

got this. Our flight is going. I've got shoulder pain. I've got neuropathy. And that's okay to acknowledge those things, because it's important. That's what helps us make sense of the aging process. But how often do we ask ourselves, what are the possibilities? And I tell my clients this all the time, ask yourself every day, what is the best shape you can get into it, whatever age

you are? And doesn't mean you have to have an answer, but just having that curiosity is really important. What is possible? What is possible? That is so inspiring. And I think Paul and Diana and I are such great examples of that idea. They really embody it. Age, and even the physical condition of your body, do not have to be stop signs when it comes to accomplishing

what you want to accomplish, or just doing the activities you enjoy doing. I think we can all benefit from that. I know I have. One thing I've learned through this podcast season is this idea of adding some higher intensity as you get older. In fact, after I talked to Paul Holbrook, I decided to take his advice about changing up my running routine just to see what

my body was willing to give me. So what I started doing is adding some wind sprints to the middle of my run. Not bad. For a 53 year old guy. So, got a massive hill. How about to sprint up it? I've also learned that activities like exercise can be a lot more fulfilling if you get to do that with people you care about. In fact, more

importantly, I think it's a good idea to learn how to do it. Multiple studies have found that having a workout buddy can have multiple health benefits, including increased motivation, as well as a lower risk of cognitive impairment. In fact, look, relationships in general, they're so important to our health. And I'm not just talking about romantic ones. So in our next episode, we're going to talk about

why friendship is so important as we get older. How hard is it do you think for adults to make friends? I actually think it's harder now than it's been in human history. You're also going to get a chance to hear from my best friend. And one quick note before we go, the team is going to be taking off next week for the July 4th holiday, but

we'll be back with a brand new episode in two weeks. Talk to you then. Chasing life is a production of CNN audio. Our podcast is produced by David Rind, Xavier Larkin, Lopez, and Grace Walker. Our senior producer and showrunner is Felicia Patincan. Andrea Cain is our medical writer and Tommy Bizarreon is our engineer. Dan Dejula is our technical director and the executive producer of CNN audio

is Steve Licktai. Also a special thanks to Ben Tinker, Amanda Cili, and Nadia Kunang of CNN Health.