Chris Christie makes a guess about McCarthy's comments on Trump

Governor, thanks for joining us here tonight. Thanks, Caitlin. I don't think that we've gotten your real reaction to the audio that CNN got this week of Trump talking about classified documen with people who didn't have security clearan What went through your mind as you listened to that two minute or so clip? Sounds just like him. I mean, the thing that struck me the most was that

that is what Donald Trump is lik most of the time, constantly rationalizing his own bad behavior, justifying what he's doing at the very mome that he's doing it, even when he knows it's wrong and showing off. He's the consummate showoff. And I think that's what that tape was, him showing off. People ask me going all the way back to the time of the raid last year

of Mar a Lago. Why would he keep these document people like? Is he going to give in to a foreign government or sell them to somebody or blac People like you don't understand Donald Trump. It's just to show off. He wants to continue to act like he's president. He can't live with the fact that he's not And so that's why he kept those documents. It seems

childish and stupid and But that's the reason why in my view, he's always kept You've compared it to a child sticking their hand into a cooki Yeah. I mean, look, he knows it's wron And he acknowledged that on the on the tape that you all got, you know, he says, like, look, this is classified. It's s You know, I could have declassified when I was president,

but I didn And now I can't you know, I can't have this. I can't show it to you. Well, you know, he knows these things are wrong, but he is like that child who te the parent constantly, you know, and that is what is just so maddening about this. None of this had to happen if he tries to play victim now. Caitlyn Oh, poor me. They're

going after me. They tried for 18 months, quietl privately, to get him to return the documen from February of 20, 21 through to August of 20, 20 to they wrote, they called, they met with lawyers. They ultimately served a grand jury subpoena. They did everything they could u and not including a raid. He would not give them the docum back. And in fact, according to the

indictment now and I have no reason to beli that's not true. You know, he even hid documents from his own lawyers when they were trying to comply with the subpoena in order to ke And this isn't new, Caitlin, the boxes thing. You know, when I was when I was with him in 2016 his bodyguard at the time, he Schiller used to carry a banker's box of

that came from Trump Tower and we would get on Trump's plan And the first thing that would h when he sat down is Keith would go and get that b and put it in the seat next to T And Trump would open the box and he would start going through the papers where they call him, you know, his Beautiful Mind box The staff called them. I

knew exactly what they meant. It was like a security blanket f That you're saying it wasn't som where, oh, he just had all the stuff with h and he didn't really know what was in there. It was just random boxes. You're saying he he knew and kept track of these, but he knew exactly what it was and he would talk to you as he was going

through papers i I said, Oh, this is about this d or This is a story about this. Or it would be a combination of, you know, paperwork and articles and magazines. As he said, that's the kind of stuff that was in there, except once you become president you have access to classified do and top secret documents and CIA documents, which are the most secret docume And

that's what's often keep with him at the White House Did you ever see him dealing with classified informat in front of people who didn't have security clearan or anything that you remember? I didn't. I didn't the only the only thing that he ever show which I think he showed to lots people, were the letters that he got from Kim Jong un. He was very proud of

those. Yeah But of course, what he's alleged to have taken out is so much more serious, much more serious Social Security secrets. He's had a litany of excuses for why he had these documents. This is just a culmination of some of them. You can declassify just by saying it's declassified, even by thinking about it. I didn't have a document per se. Did you ever show those

classified documents to an Not really. Copies of different plans, copies of stories having to do with many, many sub Why do you think his excuses keep changing for why he had these documents? Because he's getting cornered. He's getting quarter to he'll lie about anything. I think the latest lie is the one that he said just yesterday. Right where he said I was really I think it

He said it wasn't a document per Well, that but he also the bigger problem he has, Kaitlan, is that he admi he had the documents. He knew about the grand jury sub but he was too busy to go through the boxes to see what was classified and what wasn't. And he didn't want to just turn the boxes over because he had golf shirts and golf pants

in there. I mean, come on. There's nobody in America who believes that story. Does the bravado excuse remind you of when the Access Hollywood tape came out? And he his dismissal was it's just locker room talk it's whenever he feels cornered, he makes up a story. Reminds me more particularly of when he didn't want to turn over his tax return and he all of a sudden

came up with a story that he was getting legal advice saying that as long as he was under audit, that he couldn't turn them over. And that was a completely made u as well. You're a former federal prosecut How damaging is a tape like that at trial? Well, it's always great to have evidence, e audio or videotape of the person in their own words saying something

as opposed to a witness saying that someone said this. The tape is always the best having you, whether it's audio or audio and because the jury then knows they don't have to rely upon any for the truth of what's being said in there. They can see it and hear it for themselves. So the tape is an incredibly imp part of it. But it's not the only

important piece of evidence that they have I suspect that they will introdu at the time at trial most Caitlin, most of these indi when I did it for seven years, we usually put a third to a half of the amount of evidence that we actually had in the indi and saved stuff for later. So you think there's more? I do. Rudy Giuliani was interviewed in last

week, I believe, by Jack Smith's inves who are investigating January six and the efforts to overturn the election. What does it say to you that he voluntarily sat down with them with Jackson and Steve? Does that mean, do you think, that he's trying to get some kind of agreement? I think that's Rudy's personalit Remember, Rudy was a U.S. attorney also, and he was the U. attorney

in the most important d in the country, in Manhattan, in the southern district of New So I don't think even if Rudy got legal advice not to sit down. My guess is knowing Rudy, that he feels like he could deal with whatever questions are going to be asked. And that's given his background, his experience. And I'm sure he's convinced he did nothing wrong. So I think

with Rudy, it's not an indication that there's a deal being made, which it might be with other peo I think it's more that Rudy has this incredible self-confidence that he could sit down with a pr and he will not be, you know, knocked off. How much risk do you think he's facing in this investigatio And Trump himself on the January six side of thing Look, it's

hard to tell everything that went on that day. I actually tried to talk to the president that day and he wouldn't take the calls to urge him to speak out and to get people out of the Cap So I don't know what everybody's role was. But look, this what we know for It was an awful day in American We know that Donald Trump played a large

role in encouraging it, not just on the day, but in ever he did from election night forward to January 6th, because he continued to spread t that the election was stolen And we know that's not true and there's no evidence to suppo It is. He knew that, too. But his ego wouldn't permit him that he lost to Joe Biden and be If I lost the Joe

Biden, I'd be pretty hurt, too. But the fact is, when it happens, it happens. And I don't think that Jack Smith would be my guess. It's not just looking at the speech on January or what happened on January six. He's looking at everything that from election night forward. Yeah, fundraising. We know all the fake electors. Do you have concerns on how Trump would use his pardo

if he became president again? Well, I don't like a lot of the he used it when he had it the fi Yeah. Because he pardoned Charles Kush Sure. So and then for other people, I don't think he should have pardoned, but nonetheless. Sure. That would not be my top concern if he were to become president. Again, but it would be on a list You haven't said

whether or not you'd rule out pardoning him if you became pres I think I don't think it's respo to say it violent. But what? Because having had the pardon power befo I will tell you what my inclinat I don't think if he gets a fair that there's going to be any gro to pardon him. And so my inclination is I don't think I would pardon him

if I thought that he got an unfa if I thought there were things that happened that led to an unfair result. And that's a different story. But based on what I know today, the answer is no. But having had the pardon power as a governor, and how seriously I took it. What I'm telling you is that you got to watch to see how the trial goes

to because that's part of it. The last thing I'd say and the r why I don't think if I'm president that I'll ever confront this is to get a pardon. You must also accept responsibil for your conduct. Donald Trump will never accept responsibility for his conduct. And so he won't even be able to a pardon if one were offered. Of course, one thing you know, we're

talking about the primary, the pull that he has on your par that was on full display this we when House Speaker Kevin McCarthy did an interview where he questioned Trump's stre as a candidate, saying, is he the best candidate? I'm not so sure. He quickly backtracked on that. What does that say to you about how dependent Kevin McCarthy is on a Donald Tr Well, I think

that Kevin's in a particularly difficult positio because he needs to count the 21 every day. Every day, given the rules that he's operating under. So it's not an excuse for Kevin, but it's an explanation as to what he's up to. He's trying to get things done in the house of Representatives. He's managing a very difficult c and a very slim majority. And so I think that's

why he mor My guess is that's why he did what he did But I think his first statement is what he really believes, which is that he doesn't think Donald Trump is the strongest candidate to be president.