Untitled episode

In the beginning, there was TV and it was good. There was no color, there were very few channels, there was no videotape, but it was astounding. Then came networks, and then cable, and then prestige, and then streaming, and then, chaos. Now, you watch TV on your phone, or you look at your phone while watching TV. And yet my colleagues and I decided we could try to

make a late night TV show about money and power, and we could try to make it good. So I read this thing in Businessweek about Disney and its CEO becoming symbols of everything that's wrong with corporate entertainment. One of their biggest problems, the TV industry. What do audiences want and why are such big companies having such a hard time giving it to them? This is the

Businessweek Show. This is our Screentime episode. You are having your screen time right now, and we are gonna try to figure out Screentime together, tonight. It's The Businessweek Show The most important member of the Businessweek Show's audience is my mom, Patty. After we debuted, she called me and she said she had just never seen someone on TV so charming, so tall, so handsome, so appealing. Two

of the reasons that I know she was fibbing are sitting with me at this table. Jonathan and Drew Scott, who are known as the Property Brothers, have built a reality TV and a brand empire, not by renovating and flipping houses, but by being approachable and pleasant and humble and goofy. They are here now to tell us what's real, what's unreal and what's in between. Brothers, welcome.

You know, one thing that is real, your mom Patty and I would go way back and she said that we are like her other sons. She said we're the sons she wished she had. It was weird when she said that. I thought, "This is strange, 'cause Max is a great guy." Yeah, okay, that hurts my feelings. And this interview is over. It's over. So how does

spending so much time in like what's essentially a kind of a semi real world in front of just millions and millions of people, how does that change the way you experience just the real world? Well, I can't go to Home Depot anymore because people will literally hear my voice and come two aisles over and ask me to plan their kitchen for them. But in reality, it's

given us this incredible platform because one of the mandates of our company, we manufacture about 10 and a half thousand products. And all of these new green products that are coming into the marketplace are incredible and the technology is revolutionary. It's where the future of the home build will be. But they're so expensive. So one of our biggest mandates is to make these technologies more affordable

for everybody. And so by having this platform, by having this audience, by being in 160 countries, we now have leverage where we can actually pass policy, create nonprofits, do things that are gonna really move the needle so that people can live happier at home. Well, what I like though is this big platform that we have, we're a household name. People see us on the street, they

feel like they know us. We don't consider ourselves celebrities, but we're not a celebrity brand that's built on drama or anything like that. We just love to support people and help families live a safe, happy, healthy life. So whenever we meet people and the way it's expanded our brand, it actually just makes it so that people are more welcoming with us no matter where we are,

and I love that. I was gonna ask about the success you have in TV, an industry that's just completely upside-down and kind of inside-out right now. But instead, I wanna ask about real estate, which was my first beat in journalism. I was a real estate reporter at the old New York Observer for a couple years. You both, I think, have realtor licenses. I mean- Well, he

used to. You no longer do, but you once did. The industry here in the U.S., it's kind of a mess. There was a cover story in Businessweek. It was basically like called this, I think, "The least affordable housing market" since I think I was born, like the 1980s. And it talks about sales approaching record lows, homeowners with cheap loans. They don't wanna get rid of their

cheap loans, so they're basically not selling. And the people who don't own homes can't afford to buy is what the story said. I'm just curious, like, what should be done? It seems like such a thorny mess. So a big part of what we do is we invest in new innovation that is changing the home. Affordability for families is very important to us. Decarbonizing the home, electrifying,

sustainability is important to us. The more we focus in on family and what we can do to help make a difference from our perspective, and we see a lot of others are doing the same, the more interest there is in some of these new products, it'll make it more affordable. And which is funny too. Real estate needs to be a long-term game. Even with the blips,

2008, all the recessions happen, it always trends up. So you only lose money when you're desperate to sell. And so don't over-leverage. Don't be afraid of leveraging, 'cause borrowed money is not a bad thing. But that's the thing that really gets me is if you look at it as a long-term plan, you're gonna be far better off. I even saw a video, it was a news

broadcast from the '80s where somebody said, "Can you believe housing prices are up over $70,000? There's no way it can continue." Of course it's gonna continue. In fact, we'll look 20 years from now and think, "Holy crow, there were such deals back in 2023." I'm sure that some of the people who reach out to you, like there's got to be some group of them just like

want fame, wanna be on TV. But I'm also betting though that there's just a lot of other people who they can't afford home renovations and they look to TV as a way to get what they can't otherwise afford. I'm wondering how being on the receiving end of something along the lines of like, I guess sort of desperation or something along that word, how it makes you

see inequality differently in this country. Yeah, I mean, there are so many people that they're not reaching out to us for some crazy idea. Like this legitimately will help them at home. This will help their lives, make life easier. We do 40 houses a year on our shows. We help 40 families a year. In fact, we're almost at, what, 650 families on our shows, episodes of

our shows that we've done. Yeah, and I think when you're thinking of inequality, and sometimes people will reach out and if we're talking about solar or renewable for your house, sometimes people will lash out on us on social media a little bit about, you're talking about something that's for the rich, and we will never have the opportunity. We never take that as an attack, because we

know some people, if they're in a situation that feels unfair to them or if they're in a situation where right now, they don't have these opportunities or the financial means to get this, we sometimes, we like to have that dialogue, or we'd like to share our side of the story where we we hear you, and that's why we do a lot of the work that we

like rely on like two charming Canadian brothers to make things better. Will you talk about some of the policy changes you're beginning to get involved in, what you'd like to see? I know you're Canadian, but what you'd like to see happen here? I'll actually argue that because I do think you need the people who the average person can look to, because we don't expect the average

homeowner to be an expert in home construction, in design, and all these things. So, whether they have somebody that they read in a magazine or in a paper or whether they see someone on TV, they need that inspiration but also that guidance to figure out what to do. Along the lines of basketball players being told to shut up and dribble, stick to your knitting, do you

worry that you can't be as political as you want to be because you have a really big and wide audience that expects something very specific from you? Absolutely. We have people who have said that to us, like just shut up and build houses sort of a thing. And in reality, with us, the one thing that has been special is that we have fans on both sides

of the fence, right? We have a large audience that's conservative. Same with the liberal side. And we don't focus in on trigger. We're not trying to trigger people with words like climate. Like a lot of people think that climate talk and sustainability is a liberal agenda. That's not what we focus on. We focus on families. That is what's important to us. Every single family deserves to

be in a home where they feel safe, they feel healthy, a home they can afford. And if we just keep honing in on that, you're speaking a language that speaks to everybody. Everyone lives somewhere, and what's most important to them, their family and where they are. So they see that we're actually trying to help there. That kind of breaks down a lot of that butting of

heads because I don't care about that landscape. I care about you and your family. I really enjoyed having you guys here. Thank you so much. This has been a lot of fun. Thanks, Max. I enjoyed it. Tell Patty she did a good job. I certainly will, thank you so much. Let's say you're a man with a social media account and you post a video where you

say something misogynistic or fatphobic or racist, or somehow, just all three at once. There is a chance that you will be hearing from my next guest. Drew Afualo has made some of the most popular videos on TikTok by, as our magazine has put it, roasting dudes online. In fact, if anything goes wrong right now, there is a chance she will mock me in front of her

audience of eight million TikTok users, which is about the population of New York City. She's here to talk to us about the rise of influencers and new media. And I'm so glad she is. Drew, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Social media has made it so much easier for so many people to act so badly on such a big scale. How

did you realize that you could steal the weapons of chauvinists and bullies, like confrontation, scorn, humiliation? Yeah. And that you could like, you could use them and turn it against them. I don't think it was like an epiphany, really, that I had. I think I just, that's how I've always dealt with men who were awful in real life. So I just decided to record myself doing

it one day. And turns out, a lot of people found it entertaining, so it worked out. But that's just I think a tactic I've implemented throughout my adult years in dealing with men. Yeah, that's just kind of my shtick now, but- One of the things that's genuinely new about new media is the way that influencers get paid. How they make money, how the professional landscape is

shaped. I'd love like just sort of an overview of like what you imagine your finances might look like next year. Hopefully, great. Hopefully, they look good and they look like well-funded and they look awesome and they look comfortable. I have different kinds of projects that are in the more traditional media realms. And then I also have social media brand deals and then you get paid from

things like views off things like TikTok. As far as what my funds are gonna look like, not entirely sure, honestly. I know Forbes printed a number. If that's the real number, let me know where it's at. Success, whether it comes from making money or getting clicks, Drew, it has like a kind of magnetic force. I feel like once you've done something that works, it's so tempting

to like kind of just try to keep repeating it. How do you manage to stay true to yourself without just like leaning into what you know the algorithm just wants from you? The jokes I make, obviously, I think they're hilarious, but I think I can only make fun of a dude who says the exact same thing over and over again so many times. And I think

when I hit that wall, it was 'cause I started getting bored. Like I got bored looking at a dude say the exact same thing I saw 20 times earlier that year. So I actually tried to shift my content and also use other platforms in order to showcase other parts of my life. So my Instagram is more my lifestyle-based stuff. Sometimes, if I'm on like threads or

something, I'll do more silly things, like silly thoughts or isms that come across my brain that aren't necessarily tied to making fun of men. You have a kind of genius, I think, is a fair word for calling other people out. Thank you. But last year, you were criticized for a partnership with Shein, multi-billion dollar Chinese retail giant. Shein's clothing in particular has been made with cotton

from the region in China where the State Department says their people face horrific abuses. Yeah. Could you have done anything differently or what could you have done differently? I think what I could have done differently was more research, to be quite honest with you. What I will say about that deal is the reason why I did it at the time was because that particular capsule that

I platformed was by small female black and brown designers. That was the reason why I did it, because as a woman of color, I wanted to platform other women of color, right? And I wanted to be able to uplift them and empower them. And that's what my line of thinking was at the time. Looking back, would I have done it? No. Looking forward, will I ever

do it again? No. And so I think if you don't grow and you don't change, then you're probably a robot. But I feel like making a mistake in the spotlight was bound to happen. That happened to me, happened really early on. Thankfully, I learned. And now, we're in a much better position now, which is a good thing. One very, very simplified way of thinking about just

like the entire history of American mass media is that radio dominated until network TV. And then network TV dominated until cable TV, which dominated until big tech platforms and user-generated content. Is AI content gonna be, it's gonna be the thing that's dominating us next? I mean, either way, are you like sort of scared of what's to come? As far as whether or not it's going to

replace any sort of existing media, one of my good friends, ER Fightmaster, when they were on my show, they were explaining, the catch twenty-two about AI is that it pulls from human experience. So it has nothing to generate if it doesn't pull from the human experience. So if it's an AI, if it's an existing non-tangible thing, it cannot experience life through a human's eyes, which means

it can't create anything beautiful from the human experience. So it doesn't exist without humans. And so it's kind of a chicken-egg thing, I guess. But I don't think it's the future. It shouldn't be. We should take lessons from Age of Ultron. It's going to overrun us. But on top but on a more serious note, I just don't think the future of media exists without the human

experience, with the human brain. Drew, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. It was an honor. It was an honor. Krusty the Clown, Ralph Wiggum, Sideshow Bob, he wrote episodes that introduced 'em to the world, and he is coming up next. Sometimes, television is good, amusing, comforting, informative. Sometimes, television is bad, mean, cruel, full of that kind of like winking self-reference

that adds up to just absolutely nothing. And that's why when television is really great, it's worth celebrating. And my guest at this table has made television that is as great as just about anything ever made. Mike Reiss has been a writer, a showrunner, and executive producer at "The Simpsons." He co-created "The Critic," a cult classic and a favorite of mine. He co-wrote "The Simpsons" movie and

he has done much more. Mike Reiss, welcome. Wow, thank you. Nice to be here. What is the secret to making great television so that me and my colleagues can- Boy, I don't know. I don't know. How's that first start to the interview? It's very honest, but what might it be? But I was thinking about "The Simpsons," how it started up and I got offered the job

there because everyone else had turned it down. No one on that original writing staff had ever written a half hour script before. All our voice actors, except for Nancy Cartwright, the voice of Bart had never done voice acting or cartoon work before. So none of us knew what we were doing, and we just sort of plowed in there and said, "Well, let's have fun and let's

make a good show." And part of it is the idea that I think we really thought no one was gonna watch it. We thought no one was gonna watch it. And we said, "Let's just amuse ourselves." There are good versions and bad versions of almost everything. Tables, books, interviewers. What is it about "The Simpsons" that's made it just so good for so long? Partly, I think

the show is sort of rooted in human stupidity. As long as people are doing dumb things in the world, we have material and that's it. Our canvas is so wide, and people just kind of get dumber and dumber. And every once in a while, the world gets okay. It's on an even keel. Let's say points of the Obama administration where American was just humming along and

the show started to suck. It just wouldn't be as good because everybody was happy and complacent. And then someone like Trump comes into office, and wow, the show gets great again. Okay, I wanna talk about your writing about your travels. Travels, yes. So the truth is, Mike, it's not just willing to make fun of all kinds of people. You're writing about world travels. But it's kind

of predicated on it. It's kind of based on making fun of people around the world. And you have this line in your memoir, where you say you believe a joke is only in bad taste if it's not funny. Correct. Is that really true? I think so. I think so. Joan Rivers used to make jokes, racial jokes, gay jokes, but she was just so funny. The jokes

were funny. Her delivery was funny. Where other people would say, make the same sentiment and get canceled, people would be offended. It's okay if it's funny. People understand that. In Joan River's case though, maybe if she was making jokes about women, that that would be more acceptable. She's acceptable because she's a woman. Is there maybe something besides funny that a joke has to be in order

to be acceptable? Because of course, that would mean that there's kind of like no line that could be crossed. Like as long as something's funny, everything's acceptable, and I feel like that's not possible. I don't know. I don't think that's true. There's always the idea, the old saw, there's very few things that are really true about comedy, but one is tragedy plus time equals comedy, and

that's it. Anything can be funny if you wait long enough. You left "The Simpsons" after helping to run it. Yeah. Then you came back and you've written, I think, you've written now for years, but for a long time in this era. "The Simpsons" is not just like, I think, the longest running sitcom in American history. I mean, I think it's the longest running by like a

lot, right? Yeah. It's the longest running TV series by 15 years. Crazy. Apart from what anyone on the internet or anybody, any fan thinks about things going uphill or things going downhill, when you watch "The Simpsons" now, how do you feel about it? I really like it. I really like it. There are times where I go, I wouldn't do that joke. There's been a real influx

just recently of new writers and they're diverse. The show really is not a bunch of old white guys anymore. And it doesn't matter. They're great and the show can grow and change, and I'm glad I'm not making the decisions anymore. I want you to know that I brought you something, free of charge. My gift to you here. This is my Lisa Simpson Pez dispenser. And it

occurs to me honestly that very, very few people would want this because Lisa is so smart and she's so kind, but she's not the funniest character. This is all yours, enjoy. Thank you. You sure you wanna get, this may be worth something. Mike, who to you, besides Lisa over there, who to you is the most underrated Simpson's character? Oh, that's a good question. I don't know,

I don't know. Lisa, when you just said she's not that funny, I go, oh gee, that strikes me, 'cause all the writers on the show were Lisa as kids. I was Lisa - too smart, not many friends, wanted to play along but really believed in her principles. We were all Lisas and then we all became Homer. We just woke up one day and we're fat and

bald and angry. So I don't know. I liked Apu. I really loved Apu. He's the only person in Springfield who works hard at his job. And we worked so hard at our job, I always respected that. Mike Reiss, thank you so much for being here. It was a pleasure and I got a Pez dispenser out of it. We all win. Here I am, the host, and

there you are, the audience. I'm looking right at you. Where are we? We're on the set of the Businessweek Show. And what time is it? It's the end of the episode. So what am I doing? I'm giving us a conclusion. Tonight, we heard from guests who are trying to give you, the audience, what you want by being helpful or radical or funny and by being sincere.

So let me try to be sincere too. Here on the show, we are just beginning to figure out what you, the audience, wants and how we can try to give it to you by being true to ourselves and the guests who are coming on the show. Thank you so much for watching the first 10 episodes. We really hope we'll see you again soon. Who's the most

stubborn? Boom. But I'm also better looking. What, no. I would say who influences me the most would definitely be my older sister, Deison, my Mom, and Beyonce. They just inspire me in so many different ways. Homer Simpson, what makes him a real pleasure to write for is the fact that he embodies all seven deadly sins. He's full of sloth and lust and gluttony and anger, whatever

the other ones are. Who's the most honest, clearly coming right off that question? I am the most honest. Yeah, whether you like it or not, I will be honest with you. Don't ask me if I look good in these jeans.