Show #479: Kris and Brad from Talking Chop

You're listening to Atlanta baseball talk, your weekly podcast for all things at Atlanta Braves. Welcome to Atlanta baseball talk, show number 479. Today is Tuesday, September 2, 2020. My name is Steve. No hammy and Kurt tonight. Before we start, folks, please help out the show by telling your friends, sharing links and writing reviews. We've got a lot of podcasts and blog community for many years. We've

of course become huge fans of many others out there. And we want to talk to those folks before we hang it up. And we're going to begin with Talking Chop by welcoming in Chris Willis, the managing editor and Brad Roland, podcast host and writer at Talking Chop. But first, a quick break. So Chris and Brad, welcome to the show. How are you guys doing tonight? Yeah,

absolutely. Thanks for what it's beyond here. Yeah, we're seriously, we are big fans of you guys. And as I started to have this idea, I knew that I wanted to start with you guys. So look, we'll talk about the braids a little bit later in the show, but I want to start with Talking Chop and some of the origins. And I know I don't know all

the story. But what I do know is that back in March, 2010, we had Martin Candy on who was talking Chop at the time. He had just written a book, the Talking Chop 2010 annual. So, will you guys draw a line between Martin's Talking Chop and the one that exists today? Well, that's a good question. I don't know that I know all of the back story

is far back. I do, I never do that. I don't think Brad did either. I don't think either of us actually worked under Martin. Although I know Scott did. But they, Martin, I can't remember exactly what year he left, but there was a couple of site managers between he and I. So, you know, somewhere, I think I came on somewhere around 2000, the end of 2014.

And maybe took over the site sometime in 2015. I think Brad might even actually beat me there. I did some braids work. Aspenation Atlanta along with Scott as well. So, but I think Martin, Martin started his own site. He found a Talking Chop. Did a great job. I thought we thought it was one of the best braids sites on the network. And then started on his

own site. And I would really always really enjoy that. But, you know, it is a, it is a historical site. I mean, it is one of the aspenations oldest baseball sites. And, you know, that was a great question. That was one of the things that always intrigued me about it. So, you said SB Atlanta. Was there something different before, or aspenation Atlanta? Was there something before

Talking Chop joined SB Nation? No. Talking Chop was actually there. And the Atlanta sites was talking Chop, the Falkaholic, of course, for the Falkins and then Peach Tree Hoops for the Atlanta Hops. So, Brad and I both wrote and Brad still runs that site. And that's where I met Brad, actually. But there was an aspenation toyed with some regional sites. They were bigger sites, but we

covered everything. Everything at Atlanta, you know, everything from Georgia, football to Georgia Tech to the Halks Basketball. There was some overlap there. But a lot of the same people worked it for the smaller team sites. And on the regionals as well. So, you know, we kind of all got familiar with each other. I had a few weeks stand as the Braze Rider at Aspen Nation at

Atlanta while I was also running Peach Tree Hoops. And I enjoyed it. And I always kind of stuck that back in the back of my mind. That, you know, that was something that I'd like to do one day if ever got the opportunity. And, you know, eventually Talking Chop did open up. And, you know, and I jumped at it. So, but yeah, it's kind of a,

it's kind of a, it's kind of a, you know, cool history. When you really look at it, I just hold the site in high regard because Martin did such a great, great job with it. And, you know, I think it's got a lot of historical value to Aspen Nation in particular. And so, Brad, you were at Peach Tree Hoops. And that's where you met some of

these other guys. Yeah. In fact, Chris hired me at Peach Tree Hoops to replace someone that I'd left. Boy, several, several, several years ago. I was like, this is a point in time. I got my foot in the door hawks wise. I think I actually did start Talking Chop before Chris did only, only, but only barely. And I have never been in a leadership role at

Talking Chop. I'm just a fill in guy. And then I took over the podcast basically started the podcast, I suppose. But it's, yeah, I was sort of a long, a line of your road. I still, I still probably do more Atlanta hawks stuff than Bravestop overall. But I fell in love with the podcast. Really have enjoyed the community, of course. And yeah, kind of an interesting

fraternity around here. Basically, just been following Chris around all this time. And you also host, what is it locked on hawks? Is that right, Brad? Yeah. And that's a, it's a more closer to a daily show, of course, on that locked on podcast network. But yeah, I actually founded that podcast on the hawks side in addition to running Peach Tree Hoops. It's pretty busy for me

sometimes. But yes, I am very busy on that hawks podcast and try to not let it bother my, my bravest followers too much. I know I am often yelled at for tweeting too much about the hawks. For instance, but I try to keep it balanced, whatever possible. So you guys, you guys churn out a ton of content like, you know, a show every night after playoff

games and one to podcasts a week. And of course, all the really great written stuff at the show or at the show at the site. You guys have day jobs as well. Or is this what you do? No, we both, we both have very real day jobs. Yeah. I, I, I, I joking all the time, Brad, Brad's actually a machine. You know, I, I, I absolutely,

I need sleep. I have to have some sleep every now and then. But Brad doesn't need any. That's, that's his superpower really. But it is, it is a labor of love. And a lot of times it, it slides more towards the labor at that, at times, but it's fun. And I think I speak, I'm not speaking. I don't want to speak for Brad. But you know,

one of, I've always promised myself, I started doing this in 2010. And I always promised myself that when it wasn't fun anymore, I'd, I'd quit, you know, no matter what. And I'm still having fun. So, you know, that's kind of where we're at. Yeah. Yeah. I would echo that. Definitely, definitely day job life. Still, I, I do, uh, dabble in several different part time sports things.

But I have not been able to get rid of the day job just yet. Yeah. And, you know, none of us here at ABT were ever able to do that. And frankly, could as long as we've been doing it, it could never really get to like, you know, clear out family time and kid time and all that stuff to do more than one a week. So,

um, seriously hats off to you guys for all that you put out. I mean, it's really good. Um, so how's your relationship with the team? Like Chris, it seems like you have, like you're on the, you know, anthropologists, you know, conference calls and that kind of stuff. Is that accurate? Yes. Uh, that was something new. They've been really, really good. There wasn't a whole lot of

contact early on. But over the last few years, they've, uh, they've opened the doors to us a little bit. We've actually covered some games last season in, in person, um, which I'm not sure that that I don't know that that's ever happened before or not. You know, we were just grateful for the opportunity. Uh, and I've been able to get on a lot of the Zoom

calls. Um, this year. So, uh, you know, it's helped our coverage. Uh, I think that's a great thing. Um, tremendously, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's another layer that, uh, you know, we previously didn't have, um, but, uh, you know, it wasn't always like that. Uh, you know, so we're really grateful for the access. They've allowed us over the last couple of years. Yeah. That's awesome.

You know, like in. So just because like we kind of knew somebody that knew somebody in Oh nine, we started getting press passes. And, you know, so once or twice a year, we would be in the, in the, um, in the clubhouse and sit in the, in the press box for the games. And, you know, I don't know that there was anyone else around. Back then,

but they slowly started to take that away from us. I think it was sort of one. Um, you know, it was during, I, you know, it was during the Frank ran years, for sure. Um, you know, 2013, 2014. Um, I think it was a great thing. Um, and we just sort of walked away from that at that point, but that, that's awesome. I mean, they've really

opened it up. Uh, that you're on the Zoom calls and that kind of thing. That's cool. Yeah. Brad and I both, uh, you know, we, I, I, I always, I always brag on the Atlanta OX because, uh, they were very accommodating to us early on, especially, um, I think they were one of the franchise. This professional franchise. It was most friendly, uh, to the blog, blog

world, or, you know, whatever you want. It, it, it want to call a site like ours. Um, and, you know, it kind of spoiled us a little bit. I know it did me, um, because, you know, if, I remember the first time I reached out to the braids, you know, I just got a pretty, I mean, it took about, uh, maybe two minutes for me to

get a reply back. And it was, you know, I'm pretty infatic. No, and, you know, and we just kept kept asking, kept working hard, you know, kept trying to do things the right way as best we could. And, you know, I, they, they took notice and, and eventually, you know, we got that door cracked a little bit. Um, you know, it's something, we definitely don't take,

or try not to take for granted. Um, you know, we try the best we can with it. It, it's a little frustrating sometimes because there is more we could do, uh, but we do have real jobs, you know, and, and it limits our time sometimes. But, uh, you know, it's, it's a, it's a different world. And it's, uh, you know, it really helps when you can,

it adds some legitimacy, I think, to you, to your side, when you, you can get that, you can get that kind of contact. Yeah, no doubt. Um, how do you guys like or do you feel influenced by your interaction with your fans, whether it's on Twitter or otherwise? Like, Brad, you know, I was, I listened to your last podcast where you and Eric were talking about

the, um, you were talking about the trade deadline, you know, at the end, you were talking about, look, this is not the kind of show that we typically do. And there was a lot of, and, and I, I sort of glommed onto it because I, we do the same thing of like, um, you know, a lot of parenthetical look, we're not trying to be negative or

look, we're not trying to, you know, carry water for the team or whatever, because like, we will catch a lot of shit. Um, uh, so I assume that happens with you guys and it kind of, it kind of plays, it kind of gets in your hand. Is that accurate? Yeah. I think so. I mean, I, you know, going back to what Chris said, it's a little

different with the braids and that we're not always, uh, in the clubhouse, we're not always in the press box. But, you know, when I cover the hawks, I'm essentially just a, almost a pseudo full time beat writer. And I'm trying to play it down the middle as much as possible. Um, on the, on the bra, on the braids side, you know, I'm, I'm definitely more root

for the team on that side than I am just a straight down the middle person. I am often accused of being too negative because I'm not just going to be blindly supportive and, uh, you know, say the most positive thing all the time. And I, I will hesitate to criticize people, but at the same time, I also kind of draw that line going back where I'm

not going to just blast them over the top either. And you represent last podcast. It's kind of out of character for us to really kind of go as hard as we did. Um, and I, and I don't do that on purpose. I don't do that all that often. But certainly you hear from people. And I think, uh, especially I, I, I want to be for Chris,

but especially my own, I'm not sure if reputations, the right word. It's just people's. See me as sort of negative because I'm trying to be unbiased and not everyone likes that, which I totally understand. So it's really an approach thing. Um, I don't think that I, uh, I mean, no one can eliminate all their biases. But in general, if you're doing a team podcast, you're writing

about a team. A lot of people want to hear positive things. And I try to balance it out. But you know, if it's not all sunshine and rainbows all the time, people don't always love that. It's interesting, right? I mean, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,

I'm not I'm the, I'm cast as the Homer on our show, um, you know, and Kurt is more the negative guy. And, you know, but I honestly think we are just, like, have sort of sober, you know, um, analysis about what the team is doing. And sometimes what the team does is really good. And sometimes what the team does is head scratching and bad. Um, the

fan base is so interesting. There is such a, there is such a large contingent of. If you don't love everything the team did and if you don't love Chip and Jeff, like, you're a monster. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It can be for sure. And I mean, I've seen, I'm not near as active on, on Twitter as Brad has been. But I've tried to be, I've tried to,

you know, as we've gotten access, I've tried to be more, more vocal there as well. But, you know, I've definitely, as that follower accounts went up, I've definitely, uh, you know, felt a lot of that too. And, you know, I think, you know, we, we all can be disappointed. I mean, I don't, I don't know that there was a braze fan anywhere Monday that wasn't a

little disappointed. But, you know, I think it's also important for us. We, we try to, we try to understand what's going on. Try to, you know, well, why, why did they do this? You know, what, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to us. But, you know, order the reasons. And I think it's important. We, you know, we kind of come, you try to come

around that, um, you know, I was thinking, Brad will remember this, uh, but, you know, a great example was a, Andrew and C. R. T. I mean, he's everybody's whipping boy. You can't tweet out the line up right now without getting the question. Mark, why is it Christian Pache playing? Yeah. Um, but Eric, I mean, Brad will remember this, uh, you know, the year he had

the 200 hits. I mean, I cheered him as hard as anything because that team just wasn't very much. There wasn't very, very much to root for in that, you know, and Andrew, I enjoyed watching him and whatnot. But you also have to remember at the time, you know, I think he was a league, I think by numbers, he was a league average hitter. Brad used to

get a lot of flak for pointing this out a lot. But, uh, you know, and I can remember, you know, right after that, uh, we rift off of a Keith Law Post that said, Brad should trade him because his value will never be any higher than it was that day. And I mean, it was a glorious meltdown. You know, I mean, you know, you can't trade

him. How can you trade him? Can't we have anything? You know, and then you flash forward just this short time after that. And now, you know, if he, if he even gets in the plate, I think all of our mentions lie to you. So you're right. The fan base is fascinating. And especially coming from, you know, from writing about the Hawk to, you know, it's very

much more of a niche. You know, there's a lot of great Hawks fans out there. But, you know, when you, you can get a little shell shot when you start talking braves just because this fan base is so, so large and so vocal. Yeah, I was going to say that. I mean, not to cut you off. I was going to say a thing before I, before

I get to say it, but I think it really comes down to you guys know this. But the braves fan base is so big. And we all know that. It's a national fan base. It's just, it's, and there are pockets of it that are just very different. And that's regional. It's also, you know, age or approach or there's a lot of lots of new age analytical

fans. There's lots of old school guys who want batting average and that kind of stuff. And it's, it's really interesting to kind of go through and see because it almost doesn't matter what you say. If you say it in public either on the podcast or on Twitter, someone's not going to like it in one of the pockets of the fan base. And you kind of have

to just know that going in. And there's nothing wrong with it. It's good to have that discussion as long as it's respectful. But it is really interesting to kind of track how opinion changes or how certain parts of the braves fan base react to certain things. Because there really is no consensus, which is, it can be fun. It can also be frustrating. And you have to

kind of know what you're getting into. Yeah, it's, it's fascinating watching the. Just sort of watching the interaction of the fans about the other podcasts like you guys, like you guys often get cast as the. It's all super analytics. And that's all they talk about, which is not true. No, it's not true at all. I know it's not. But like that's how you guys get cast,

you know, and it's just, it's just interesting. I don't even have a point so much other than it's just fascinating. It's, it's, you know, it's. It's the old school versus new school, like you said, right? It's kind of like the polarizing nature of Marquaykis, which I think there's a number of reasons for. But in, in a simple way, it's old school, new school. I agree with

that. Really. I agree with that. I agree with that 100%. I mean, and the analytics is a perfect example, because when I came on board, I had no idea. But I've kind of, you know, read that site and, and reading. And some of the work, you know, of guys we've got on the site, you know, I've, I've become enamored with it. And, you know, I try

to read as much of it as I can. I've learned as much as I could about it over the last five years. So, you know, before we stray too far, though, I, you know, we talked about Twitter and everything. I think it's also worth pointing out about talking shop is we have a very large community on, on the site in the comment session. And though they

don't always reflect what you say. So, you know, social media, I like to say it's for the most part. I mean, it's a pretty good, it's a good smart community. Now, they can get, you know, they're like any other part of this thing. You know, Monday, they weren't happy. But I know that was the thing that took me back the most is just when you, you

ride something and you look up there and you see 600 comments or 300 comments. It's a little, it's a little intimidating, you know, when you've, you come, you're not used to that. So, you know, that's a lot of things. That was another thing about talking shop. It was just the comment counts was always just crazy at times. And it's a passionate group. And it's amazing. When

you, you read in through there and they're like, well, I don't have a Twitter. I'm not on Twitter or anything. But it's like it's on our own little section. You know, that we have that, you know, I don't think a lot of other side. I think that's one of the big things that makes us a little bit different and espination a little bit different in general.

Yeah, that's awesome. That's great. You know, we were talking about Ender. It made me think, I mean, I'm going to get the numbers wrong a little bit. I want to say was 2018. It was 18 or 17. Where, and I think it was like April, where he rattled off like four or six home runs in the month. You remember, and like, he had a couple in

Florida. Like, and like, we, we were talking, we were like over under on Ender's homers this year, 20, you know, and of course, then he hit like three more of the rest of the year. I don't know. It's again, not a big point there, but just the Mercurial Ender and CRTA. For sure. Yeah. Um, all right guys. So let's, let's talk. Let's, let's move on to

the team. I want to talk about the trade deadline. And I want to start with this. Like, I can squint real hard. You know, and go along with the front office. Jacked up for Pache in every trade conversation or that Lance Lynn wasn't offered or that they, like, legitimately, didn't think that Mike Minor or my God Ross kind of, but if they keep trotting out Irland

and Tomlin, and they've already announced Tomlin for the weekend, then I don't even know what, what they're doing. Like, what's the plan? I don't know, Brad, I know you got you and Eric talked about this. Um, on, on your show a couple of days ago. But I really had high hopes that, you know, it wasn't going to be Irland tonight. We're doing this one tonight. And

that surely we wouldn't see Tomlin, right? So maybe it was Irland tonight because, you know, they're not, they're not, um, getting guys on planes last minute to keep travel down and that kind of thing. So okay. But that they've announced Tomlin this weekend. I mean, are they really just going to keep trotting these guys out? You know, I, it really, it leaves me somewhat speechless. It

would appear so. Uh, I had, I had sort of the same reaction like you just referenced on the show this week. But yeah, I mean, that, I mean, I'm not going to be able to do that. But my, the, the confluence of events that doesn't land for me is that you are, they're seemingly unwilling to, uh, I'm not sure if it's more even more of the

future. They're seemingly unwilling to use their prospects in a splash year, even non splash year moved at pitching. But then they won't, it's sort of a mixed message because they won't allow the young guys to fail. That's kind of what it comes down to is that they have a really short leash. This has been the case for a long time, frankly, on young guys. Um, and

no one in the right mind is telling you that that Kyle Wright and Tookie Tucson, especially had been good this year because they haven't been, but, uh, those guys or, you know, even the younger guys who haven't went up yet are Tucker Davidson or even guys like Fulti and Newcombe have higher upside, almost certainly than Robbie Irland in particular. I'm not trying to, I'm not trying

to pile on Robbie Irland by any means. It's not his fault. But it's one of those things where it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, given that the division, I mean, maybe not the division, but at least the playoffs are all but assured based on all of the projections that they wouldn't start swinging. And I'm trying to be a little bit for upside. Um,

are we still looking for the future? They have sort of a month now and, and a bizarre scenario. They have a month to kind of play around and try to find their best playoff alignment. And to keep rolling out Irland and Tomlin's been good in his role, but it's not a starter and the modern alignment of what they want. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

And like you, I was sort of rolling my eyes when I saw those two guys back to back days again. Just because it's, it's time to start getting a little bit weird as the way that I would put it in the best way. Start experimenting. Aiming for upside and very clear with those guys do not present the upside that you're looking for in the playoffs. Well,

it doesn't seem like you're really trying to win. And again, we can, you know, we can accept whatever we can accept that they didn't make any moves. But you're not going far with Irland and Tomlin, right? I mean, honestly, they would have had a much better chance to, you know, strike lightning in a bottle with a change of scenery. If they had, I was predicting Kevin

Gossman for the last time. Last couple of weeks. Right. But if, you know, if they went out and got Gossman and he was your number three and Malone was your number four, like, you know, some crazy things could happen. And maybe, you know, something, you know, you could, you could get past, not only the first round, but another round. But it's not going to happen with

Irland and Tomlin. Yeah. I mean, they are. The front office scene. And they seem so married to major league experience, right? When they finally had to call someone up, they called up Bryce Wilson, right? We didn't know who was going to be. And ended up being Bryce Wilson. They didn't even start him, of course. And to your point about the short leash, leash after that appearance

in New York, they, you know, they sent them back down. But all the Irland and Tomlin is like, we just want the major league guys. That's the major league experience is what's going to carry us. And we're going to have to go through this through here. But the results don't really back it up, you know. Yeah. I mean, I think you're, you're dead own. And I

think you described as heckly what we were feeling Monday. You know, I took a little breath after, after the deadline was up. And finally wrote an article and just said the same thing. If you're not going to, if you're not going to trade these guys, then you need to, you need to, you need to have them up there pitching. I don't see what the difference in

Cal write getting pulled. Two and a third in a, in a, in a, two and a third in and into a game is then a guy like Robbie Irland, except it's doing right. A lot more good probably. I will say this though. Yeah. I do think the reason Irland started tonight. I think you nailed it is because they're not, they're not traveling these guys. Yeah. I

was saying Alice had a lot of good things to say about right the other day. I certainly came out of that call thinking that we're going to see him now. I mean, I think the other thing was they said they would give him one more adding outing at Gwyneth. They didn't say what day that was. So I have no idea, you know, you have no idea

when he was scheduled to pitch there. I came out of that feeling like, okay, there's a good chance. We may see him this next, you know, next time through the rotation. But, you know, I mean, we really have no, I really have no way of knowing. You know, I don't, I don't understand the plan. I mean, when they, when they did fade, Faulty, I felt like

that was probably it. But, you know, there's some, you know, I don't know. Somebody mentioned the me today, well, you know, over like Brad mentioned too is over the slag next month, you know, if he's back up, if he's back in the low 90s, low to mid 90s, you know, wouldn't it be whove yourself to see if he's got anything left because, you know, this guy's

went out and pitched in the postseason and pitched well before, you know, game five, notwithstanding. So, you know, I, I've like you guys, I feel like they need to be turning over every rock. They can turn over now that we're past the day. They're going to be a little dead line because they got to find the guys that can, that can help them win. You know,

thank goodness this bullpen's as deep as it is. And I kind of still marvel every time I look at the standings when you, when you sat down and write down everything that's went wrong in the 60 game season, it's, it's pretty amazing that they're where they're at. And, you know, I don't, you know, I mean, the expanded playoffs make it even more of a flip of

the coin necessarily. But, you know, I mean, I don't know. You know, you just, you don't feel like they're stocked up to make a deep postseason run. But then again, you know, you know, they've done a lot of this heavy lifting without Aussie Albies and turning over half of their rotation and are more than half of their rotation. And, you know, I still don't understand really

how they, how they pulled it off. You know, the flip side of that Chris though is the bullpen is so strong. And the offense, you know, with, with God dance me and Riley, I could just watch dance me and Riley just back. And then I'll just, you know, I'm going to do that one right after another. And, and just have them be the starting nine. But,

you know, the, with the guy stepping up with, with Aussie out and Akunya out and the bullpen, the other side of the argument is, have they picked up a couple of number fours or number fives, they go much farther in the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, I agree with that. You know, I think it just wonder, I wonder sometimes if, and I've said this something. You know,

I think they feel like they're in house pictures or better than some of the ones they could have acquired. Certainly, not a mite clevenger or, or a lance lean, but you know, those other guys like the Ross drippling or something, you know, one of those guys that, that also moved. But then again, you know, if you fill that way, then you've got to get those guys

in the majors. And you've got to get them some minutes. So, you know, I don't know, you know, I, it's been really, it's been really tough. I mean, I don't understand. I mean, I don't know. I'm just going to say that I can't tell you that there's a lot of people going to the point of the game that I'm going to be able to get at

the point of getting at like a second. I mean, I'm going to be like, Oh, you know, I'm going to be like, I'm going to be like, everything that's going on. I mean, doesn't, it's on one hand, it makes sense. But then on another, it doesn't. And, you know, I think just trying to find that out. But, you know, if we, if we get to the

end of September, and this rotation still got the same five guys in it, then I don't know what we're doing. You know, I just be honest with that. Even some creativity would be good to like, you know, maybe, maybe an actual piggyback, take advantage of what your guys can and can't do, you know, Josh Tomman's been pretty darn good. A timer to do through the order

in various roles, but he's not a guy that's going to be able to go three times through the order. So why not, why not plan for that? Why not put him with Colorado? Do something like that. Try, try some things other than just hoping you can get five out of Robby, or on Josh Tomman twice a week. That's, it's just too much to ask. And again,

the upsides of weird word for it. But eventually you get into playoff series. Even if Enerson turns out to be the guy that he looks to be hopefully, you still need another spotter to fill with someone who is able to win you a playoff game or multiple playoff games if you want to get where you want to go. And that's not the look that they have

right now. So you might as well try to aim for something swing for the fences. Whichever metaphor you want to put out there to try to just figure this whole thing out before October. It's happening right now. I'm looking at, I'm looking at the box score right now. It's, it's bottom of the fifth. And he's started through third time of the lineup. And Verducos on and

Devres is on and Bogart is up, right? I mean, the first two guys, third time through the lineup are on. And yeah, I mean, he, yeah, I mean, Snickers not going to do it. I mean, I think the interesting thing is is, you know, the media talks about the piggyback. And you know, we heard that all the way through. Summer camp and it never materialized. We've

heard about bull pin games, but I pointed this out. I can't remember who is talking to on staff the other day. But, you know, they've had what we call bullfin games, but they haven't approached it like they've had an opener. You know, I consider an opener of the way Tampa Bay uses it. Where it goes through the order one time, maybe two at the moment. You

know, they're starting guys like Tomlin and Erlin and them and saying, get me as many outs as you can get. And, you know, that's kind of counterfeit. And I think we all love what Josh Tomlin's done. Been able to do, especially as a reliever, especially in, I mean, he's pitched in all kinds of situations. But, you know, I mean, when you're asking him to get a

turn line up over three times, you're not, you're not playing to your strengths. Right. So, you know, Alice in that long reliever role, the first, whatever, how many weeks it was. Right. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, it's just like you said, I mean, what they've talked about the piggyback. And they've talked about, you know, possibly using openers and bullfin games, but they're not really, not

really sticking to it. And I'm not bred. You know, we're going to have to think outside the box or, and with these expanded rosters, you've got the luxury of doing that. And, you know, I hope that, you know, starting out this homestand where you're going to have, you know, access to your alternate side. You're going to hope that you got to hope that, you know, that

starts to materialize. So, we've talked a lot. And I think that's the most exciting story of the year for us. And, you know, we are of the mind that like, you know, the work that Dan Speed did with Chipper last year. And now that he's been healthy, we're seeing that all come together. And it's for real. And Riley, who at every level has struggled and then

figured it out and then excelled, we're seeing that play out in front of us. Like we've been believing both of those guys that this is who they're going to be. Where are you guys on Dan's being, Riley? It's interesting. I've always kind of bought Dan's B in a way that, you know, there was, there was, there was a lot of wavering, I would say, in and

around the fan base anyway, about Dan's B after the last couple of years, where he'd have these streaks where he looked great. And then you have, you know, he has injuries and the overall performance was not incredible. I'm not sure I believe there, especially because of the defense. But, you know, for the guy with his pedigree, I think people were getting a little bit frustrated at

times. I've always kind of bought it, but with a caveat that he had to stay healthy for one and be a little bit more consistent. Rally, I think I've earned the rep of being a little bit lower on. Then most people have been. And until the last, you know, 10 days or so, I was feeling pretty good about that. But I hope that I hope I

hope to be wrong. And frankly, it wasn't, you know, he's a very talented guy. And I think speaking of upside from before, he has it. And I think they know that, which is one of the reasons why you want to keep rolling him out there. He's, he has a really talented guy. I'm just a little bit always skeptical of prospects. At least that are not super

elite prospects that have not proven it. That's kind of my mo is that I always keep my guard up on prospects. I know he came in and raked for that first couple of weeks when he first came up. But then the bottom fell out in the hurry. And I'm not going to be fooled by a hot streak here. But he does look very, very good. He

looks like he's rounding into form as a more complete hitter, you know, plate cover stuff without getting too deep into it. I'm buying it a little bit more now, but I have to keep my guard up until he just does it for a lot, does it for longer? That's not my only thing on Riley. But overall, you know, both those guys look good. They're both young.

They're both talented. And there's every reason to believe to believe in them both as guys who could help you. Yeah, one of the most interesting things about Riley, for me this year is last year, right? He, he crushed fastballs and struggled with off speed stuff. And he was actually, and it's evening out a little bit now. I think, but he was, he was actually hitting better

against off speed stuff, right? As if his, as if he had sort of overcompensated as he was trying to adjust. But that makes me even more sort of bullish on him. Because we know he can hit fastballs. Like, you know, that stuff will come back. Not in every night. It's just like two hits. Yeah, for sure. And I mean, and I think he's made a lot

of adjustments at the play. And you know, that was one thing, the one thing on him. At every level, you know, he would, he would have some struggles. And then he would always have a big second half. You know, I don't think we really talked about that, that knee injury last year enough with him. So when 90, 90 plus games, it's hard to stick with a

guy like that too. But I was really adamant. I wanted him to get a shot to be the third baseman this time. And I'm glad to see that he's kind of coming around now because there, those first, first month or so was, it was kind of rough. But he, yeah, but going back to Danesby, I mean, people forget how good he was last year in the

first half. I mean, he hit all those home runs. I wasn't sure that those home runs. I wasn't sure, you know, that he was going to be a guy that could hit 20,000. Five or 30 home runs every season. You know, I think the rabbit ball had a little bit to do with that. But, you know, the way he had changed his approach and what not

was very impressive. And then I just think that he will injury was a lot worse than, you know, what the team was saying early on. He ended up missing a lot of time. And it seemed like he didn't get it all back until the division series where he was pretty good again. So really happy for him. I just, I feel like a lot of the angst

with the fan base with him was just goes back to him. And then he got it and called up probably a little bit earlier than he should have. And being plastered everywhere as the savior. And, you know, he's just not, he, he never should have been, you know, marketed as such. He's a good player. I think he can be a solid player on a great team.

But, you know, he's not, he's not wrong with Kune, but I think he's really, really good. And as much as he's went through, man, you got to be happy for him. Yeah, there is no doubt. Um, I think he's going to be a good player. So last question, guys, Marcel. Do you buy, do you buy Marcel? Do you, you know, assuming the D H is here

to stay? Do you offer him a few more years? It depends on the number. Obviously, I have always liked that signing. I loved it when it happened. I thought it was a great piece of business from the front office with very little risk. He's a guy who's always hit. Um, I'm not sure he's as good as he's been this year every single time because that's a

tough ask. But especially with the D H, like you said, I, you know, I think all indications are the D H is probably here to stay. Um, so if you assume that and you, you got to, you, you got to know that I think I was a little bit skeptical that he was actually his bad defense as he actually is, but he is, he is that

bad on defense. I was wrong. I was actually wrong about that. Um, so bad. Especially after the injury to, you know, what I was unaware of, uh, can't only I messed this up was, uh, I didn't know how bad the arm was and the arm is just really good. Really bad. Um, anyway, but yeah, I, I would certainly be interested in bringing him back, um, at

he seems to be fitting in quite well. Um, he's hitting the ball very, very well. They could use that bat in the middle of the order. They certainly have needed him to this point in the sea. And so, uh, you know, unless the price gets out of control, absolutely, we shouldn't bring him back. I've always liked him and he said that's how it's going to, again,

that's, that's, that's, that's not it. Looks like a jam at the building. It really does. But God, if you didn't like, uh, if you didn't like Marcel and left field, Marcel and right field. Um, yep. Those couple games really amazing. Um, hey guys, uh, I really enjoyed it. I really appreciate you guys coming on. Um, you know, keep, keep, keep doing it. I'm doing the great

work at, at a talking shop. Uh, it was really great to talk to you. I really appreciate it. Uh, yeah. Steve, thank you. Thank you so much. Uh, like I said, uh, you guys, I've always told you this. Y'all were, you guys are the gold standard. We launched our podcast. We looked around and they're just wasn't that many praise podcasts, you know, and, and you, but

you guys were there and, you know, you kind of, you kind of showed us the way. And we just appreciate all the hard work you guys have done. You guys have been through some of the ups and, ups and downs for sure along the way. So, you know, I'm hoping that you can go out on a, on a strong, good note. Thanks. Yeah. It would be,

it would be fun to actually win a playoff series in our last year. Um, all right. So Chris Willis, Brad Roland, everybody, uh, go to talking shop, listen to the podcast, uh, locked on Hawks. Chris, your podcast, right? Three flags flying. Three flags flying. Yes, that's great. Um, so yeah, everybody, please check all that stuff out. And that is our show. Uh, remember, you can find

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