Big Wave Legend Garrett McNamara On Chasing 100ft+

The Rich Roll Podcast. Imagine yourself standing before a 100-foot wave of ocean water. That's like a skyscraper. For most I'm guessing, running to safety would be the first instinct that would kick in, but for today's guest, the immediate thought is singular. Grab your board and let's go surfing. Fear is something that we choose, something we manufacture in our mind. We fully embrace the moment. Fear does

not exist. Surf. The goal is to keep surfing and has accomplished a myriad of other just absolutely insane surfing feats, like surfing waves generated by a 300-foot glacier in Alaska, surfing giant barrels breaking on shallow jagged reefs, and on massive open ocean hurricane swells. Garrett and his team are also the subjects of the hit HBO docu series you might have seen called the 100-foot wave, which

thrillingly chronicles their pursuit of the largest waves in the world. There's nothing that we can't do if we put our mind to it. Season 1 is just a must watch Emmy award-winning series. It's a real life edgy or seat filmmaking experience. And season 2, which is scheduled to debut very soon, is sure to continue that tradition. In today's conversation, we discuss carrots background, how we began

surfing. We talk about the 100-foot wave crest and the docu series that captured it all. And as an added bonus, Garrett's wife, Nicole, absolutely his partner in all things, joins the conversation at the end to enlighten us on the manifestation spiritual practice she and Garrett utilize to guide their decision making and execute on their audacious goals. It's all coming right up, but first. Okay, Garrett, Nicole,

gotta say, I really love this one. There's just something beautifully earnest and childlike about Garrett that I find very appealing. He has this sense of awe and wonder and joy that he naturally exudes. He's just, you know, he's a character for sure. And Nicole is just an absolute delight. So I'm excited for you guys to hear this one. One final note, they did bring their newborn

with them to the studio. And from time to time, you're going to hear a cry or two in the background. Do not fret all as well. And with that, I give you the one you only, Garrett, Mac D'Amera and Nicole. Awesome, man. Super nice to meet you. I'm really glad we could make this happen. I kind of feel like I know you though, because I've been

consuming so much of your content, your adventures, your experiences. Of course, the docu series, which is unbelievable. And I presume that you're in Los Angeles because the Emmys is that the main reason. That was the main reason. Yeah. You guys took the W too. Oh, yeah. I couldn't believe it. It's more than we expected from this whole mission. Right. That's got to be pretty surreal. I

mean, the arc of everything that you've endured over many years to arrive at this place where you're on the receiving end of like so much recognition. You know, it's got to be, you know, at times, a little bit destabilizing or sort of, you know, strange. Yeah, it's really a great thing. I feel like I pinched me something like it's just really happening. And but then when

we're in Portugal and Nazare, and you're walking up the cliff and there's thousands of people and they're all thank you. And then you start crying with all these cheers of joy and just gratitude. Yeah. I mean, I think that's really at the heart of what almost interests me the most about your story. You know, it reminds me of a conversation I had with Alex Haunold after

he had free soloed El Cap, but like a year before the movie came out. And through that conversation, I felt like I understood what he had accomplished. Similarly, with yourself, like I'd seen all the video clips and I kind of thought I had a sense of what you were up to out there in Portugal. But it wasn't until I saw free solo and I watched the

docu series that I had a heavy dose of like, oh, you actually didn't really understand it. At all, like there's so much more that went into this adventure than meets the eye. And it's only through like telling the story in real time with all this archival footage that you guys have that you can truly appreciate what has been accomplished here. And a big piece at the

center of it is this community that you built that you, you know, took years to construct prior to even, you know, dropping in on the huge wave that kind of made headlines around the world. Yeah. For us, it was 100% the team that we could not have done anything that we did without this amazing team. And in the beginning, we were all marching to the same

beat with the same goals and desires. And it just was so effortless and so it just every day was just so fun and enjoyable. And everybody was just happy all day every day. Yeah. Well, I mean, there was definitely some challenges here and there. There was a lot. I mean, what I took from it was that you really invested like you're like the only way this

is ever going to work is if I build a team and a network and generate community and consensus around this massive goal that I have. And that's by, you know, basically working with everyone in the community there to, you know, create a situation for success. You know, without understanding that, I'm watching the document, documentary like I would have thought, oh, you just dropped, you arrived there.

You brought your tone. You got the wave runner and you just shoot out and you just check it out. You know, it wasn't that at all. And this was a different animal due to the fact that it was just a big beach break, a big close out beach break that was deemed impossible. Like a number of people went there before we went there and had everything.

We're ready. And said, it's impossible. You can't get back out. You might be able to ride away. That jet ski comes in. It was a great thing. I don't think it was dumb luck at all. I think it was an engineering problem that you took a lot of time to try to solve and figure it out like a work around to make it work. But maybe

we should, I want to get into your backstory because it's so insane. But let's talk about Nazaree right now. For somebody who hasn't seen the docu series and maybe only knows you as a guy who surfs big waves. Like let's start at, you know, the beginning of the day. And you're seeing when you receive this email and this invitation to go to Portugal. It came in

like 2005 or seven somewhere around there. And he just, he emailed me saying, um, he's like a city commerce. He was a bodyboarder. And he worked for the, in the mayor's office. And a branch of that called Nazaree Qualifica. And he was in sports programs. And but that's not the case. As a child, he had been on that lighthouse dreaming somebody surfing big waves. And then

that dream just until he was in a position to hunt to find somebody. He actually sent an email to Laird Hamilton first. Didn't get a reply. Then he sent one to Carlos Burley. Didn't get a reply. I was third. I was a third choice on the list. And he said, he's like, he's a bad guy. I might as well reply. But it was a number of

years after. After that email before you took the first trip out there to scout it out, well, my wife doesn't like to take credit for this, but I give her all the credit because that email was sitting there in my inbox. From a while back when we met and she was going through all my emails, getting organized. And then she came across that email. And she's

like, what this? And I'm an awesome. Some guys want me to go to Portugal and see if there waves any good and any big. Though, I almost said, if can you come and test our wave and see if it's good and see if it's big. And if it's good, if it's good, if big, can you help promote our town? Right. And this little tiny fishing village.

One month after she saw the email, you were there. So other surfers had, it wasn't, it wasn't like a total secret that there was a big wave there. It's just nobody had ever had the audacity to try it or how come like it took so long for people to notice what was happening there. It was deemed impossible. And a Jose Gregorio, who's quicks over Portugal, my

wife. She's got awesome good surfers decent pilot. He tried. He'd a guy sent me pictures of all their jet skis with just blowing apart yard sale. And so they never went back. And then when I got there, toe surfing was now frowned upon. You know, there was the media and a group of surfers. And I don't know if they actually really planned it, but it really

felt like it to just kill toe surfing. And so toe surfing was dead. It was frowned upon. Unless maybe you're an Australian. You had a slab or a choco when it gets too big and you can't paddle. But even then it was like. So this is like 2008, 2009. And you get there in 2010. And it was to be very honest, there would still be nobody

there today. If we didn't actually give it a try. Right. Because nobody was going to try it. And toe surfing wasn't cool. Once Kailani got into the started promoting posting his toe surfing. Yeah. Then it was cool again. Thank you, Kai. Yeah. I mean, Larry, Larry, Larry, cool for yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get into that inflection point of view. You know, watching him do that

for the very first time. But you on a flyer, you know, you and Nicole head out to Nazaree. And that first season out there was really mostly just recon like trying to understand what was happening, watching the waves, meeting with people in the government and, you know, trying to build a team and make sense. So it was a great experience of how you could do this,

you know, quote unquote, safely or as safely as possible. Yeah, we call that the exploration here. We're just exploring and figuring out all the challenges that we might face, figure out solutions. And we were so like it was it never received that type of welcome anywhere in the world where the Portuguese Navy opens their doors opens all the charts and. I mean, everybody and anybody was

at our, you know, ready to help with whatever they, whatever information they had. We didn't have a lot of funding. I mean, there was a little restaurant, the last restaurant she gave us meals for $7 was her contribution. Yeah. Luis Sovado was a fish company. His, he's the biggest fish company in Nazaree. They gave $10,000, but other than that, we had nothing. And, um, Lino from

Nazaree Water Fund, he came in personally and just asked what we needed and whatever we needed, he made it happen. So yeah. And, and that requires, you know, a healthy dose of humility. Like you're this Hawaiian surfer guy, you have this understanding, like, look, I'm not Portuguese. I can't just come in here and pretend like I know what's going on. I have to make sure that

I have the support of the community before I even attempt to. So I'm going to do something that's going to put this town in the spotlight. Was that part of the thinking or was it just, this is your natural tendency? Like I kind of natural tendency. I assemble. We have, I don't like to call it my families around the world. Like where we assembled assembled into

heady and chilly in Peru. All over the world. We have our little family set up during my toe surfing career. So wherever I wanted to, wherever big swell was going, we would have something already in place. So we call, we're coming and boom, everything's ready. Right. But it was nothing like what happened in Portugal. You got the government. You got the town. You got, oh, actually,

the town at first did not want to know us. They were like, they're very passionate, you know, very loving. And I was the guy that was going to die tomorrow. So they didn't want to get to know me because they didn't want to be sad when I did. Right. They had this long history of all these fishermen dying. Right. As a result of this wave. And,

and what's interesting is what makes that wave. Big. So talk a little bit about like why that wave is so different and special. It's crazy because 10 miles down the road at Pinesh. It'll be six feet and in Nazari, it's 60 feet. It's, uh, there's this underwater canyon. It's 25 miles long, three, uh, three, two times, two or three times the size of the Grand Canyon,

the depth two times the size of the Grand Canyon. And it kind of bottlenecks. So it starts out really wide. And then it gets really narrow. Right. Right before the, right before the, the vast rock and the lighthouse. Right. It runs perpendicular to the shore. It actually passes the lighthouse and runs all the way to the beat there. So the energy keeps moving with all of

its full raw power without getting disrupted by a reef or a or a sand bank or a shelf in that canyon. But on the right side is this shelf, which is, um, it gets like 60 feet deep at the deepest. And over here you got a thousand. Thousand feet deep were the wave breaks. And then, um, where the wave breaks on the shelf is like 30

to 40 feet. The biggest swells we've ever had might be breaking in the 60 feet deep. Um, but these, these swells are going slower or these waves are going slower as they hit the shelf. And the same exact waves goes faster down the canyon. And then they miss each other when it gets to the where they're going to break. But then they suck. They're like, so

we're in a certain size way, right, a, a crazy wedge. And there's this, when you, when you watch video kind of zoomed out a little bit, it just looks like a massive washing machine, like we're sort of used to, when we think of big waves, we think of these, you know, beautiful clean sets on the North shore of awahu where their perfect curls and they're coming

in. And it's all kind of very, you know, pristine and tropical. And this just looks like, you know, the gods are angry. Like it's just crashing. You know, like, how do you even make sense of like where to be and where the wave is going to break? And it looks like there's another wave coming from the side, like making sense of all of that and trying

to understand, like, is this even possible to ride seems like a hefty equation to solve. I think that's what's most what we love the most about it. It's never the same twice. And there's always a challenge. There's all number one picking the wave. Like sometimes you have the biggest foe you ever saw coming at you. And you start driving for it and that cross wave cancels

it. And it doesn't even just kind of go, and there's nothing. And other times it'll be a medium size. And when it hits the perfect bigger than like 10, 20 feet bigger than you expected. And yeah, it's, it's never the same ways twice. It's always challenging. It's, it's the biggest challenge of all is right in front of the cliffs, or first peak left breaks. If you

fall right there, there is the water is so foamy and so aerated. And the whole downs are so brutal. And right in there is like a river rip tide just coming out full force. So you have this current pulling out and the wave coming in. And if you fall there, it's almost impossible to come up. When you finally do the next wave is usually right there.

There's no time to get you. And if the ski can get in there, you grab the guy and you try to go and aerate the water, you don't move. So it's like somewhere you never want to fall. We've had a few people fall there and, and they've had the worst experience, or the most challenging experience they've ever had in the water. Yeah. What was, what was

interesting was figuring out, like there's the, I want to talk about the mechanics of towing into these waves. But what the epiphany was really realizing that you needed an additional wave runner for rescuing the person in case they, they wipe out, right? And when they're in that foamy no man's land, you can't even see where they are. And the guy who dropped you off, the towing

guy can't get there, right? Like it's impossible. So the only way to make it semi safe is to have two wave runners out there, one specifically for rescue. Yeah. And one of the biggest keys to success is your eye in the sky, your spot on the cliff, who was communicating with both drivers. And even the searchers, if you have any, yeah, Nicole, what was started out

to have her for safety. But then we're saying, which way, right? So it is this huge team effort. I underappreciated the skill level required for the towing wave runner pilot. Like that's a whole thing. And, you know, the docu series does an amazing job of demonstrating like how trained up these people have to be and how in sync. Like there has to be this, you know,

connective tissue, almost a, you know, a synergy and unspoken connection between you and, and your towing pilot in order for that to work, right? And then you've got Nicole on the cliff and these other people and you guys all have walkie talkies and you're communicating the whole time. You're wearing specialized wet suits that have inflation in them. So you're not going to get caught in the

washing machine underwater for too long. Like so, so many precautions and so many team members in order to make this thing operate. Yeah, the inflation is the most important thing. The best invention and big wave surfing, what's even better is the floatation that we put into our suits. So as long as we have a little floatation in a suit, whether you pull or if it malfunctions

or if it breaks, you're still going to pop up sooner or later somewhere and we'll find you. What with the inflation is just like, yeah, you're coming up. You look like a ready for a man or like a Marvel character in those things big time, big time. And yeah, the drivers, what you were asking earlier, I mean, we have the initial toer who usually is the

guy who first responder, but then everything's run and perfect. You have one guy on the on the left and one guy on the right watching the person surf. So the driver usually gets you. If he can but he can't see usually because he is hard to get to the shoulder really fast to be able to look down. So you have the guy in the left and

the guy where actually eyeballing and you have the iron sky. So if one of them misses, then the next one comes if they were going to go left, but all the sudden last minute went right, the guy on the right guy. So yeah, there's those are the definitely the bar lifeline. Those those safety drivers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's cool. I mean, you're Irish by descent,

right? Yeah. And you got like, you got initially you have Al who's Irish men, right? Legend. And then you got Coddy who's an English man. Like none of these guys are Polynesian or Portuguese or anything like that. Like all Northern European guys like you're like an unlikely, you know, set aside the HP. either. So yeah, when I used to think in sales. Sure. Cool. Yeah. I'm

a god. Yeah. You know that's j term. Yeah.s. And all this are things that we're going to do at the Lahab and Pseida anyone who is traveling. And I'm like, I gotta change the way I want to travel from there to India, to go to check it out. What's going on. Right. Yes. You're gonna so what we're going to do, you know, let me try that.

You're a third or fourth year there, right? He's I know he's in season two. I'm not sure if he made season one. What's the season? I think he's in season one. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's good because Coddy was back home for a spell. Right? Oh, yeah, for 2012. We put me on that way. Oh, and he missed me, which he never does. It was like crazy.

The whole I and miss. So he flew off the ski. Yeah. Right. But I wouldn't change a thing. I mean, Coddy is the most selfless. In the world and then how many is just the gentle giant and the whole team? We were just and it was easy, you know, because they had a lot of. For lack of road, we had a lot of respect. They're like,

you know, kids like, what do you so they actually did whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. So I could really train them up. Yeah. And really, um, know that my desires were going to be met every time as long as they were learned and you know, train them up, right? Right. They were going to listen and train up how I'd like them to be. And you're

very specific. And like what you want and what you need. Like what is the most important, you know, sort of skill set or or capacity of the toe and pilot. Like what are you looking for? Like what do they need to have and be they have to be very in tune with the ocean. Very confident and very comfortable. And, um, you know, I've had some drivers.

I've had some drivers that I worked with for years and and they will never get it. They're basically they don't they're not in tune with the ocean or I don't know what it is, but they'll never get it. And other guys will get it like right out of the gate. Um, and we're flying in and it's like the first time that we're going to try and

come back out. And put right there. I was like, it's on. You're good. We're ready. Yeah. And when you're out there and I want to work out, but you're on the back of that sled and you don't know where you're going, but you can feel it. And he was flying in and in the biggest turn. And I was like, yeah. And Cooper describes you. He's like,

Garrett, when he's talking about these waves, he's like, imagine, you're, it's like you're, you're cruising down the side of a skyscraper. But the skyscraper is collapsing on top of you. Like, I've never met anyone like Garrett. Like, it's so animated. He is the best. Yeah. He's the best. So let's, let's work our way up to that 70 foot eight footer. Like that was, that was in

the second year. So the first year you're out there, you spend the whole winter. And it, it's really just getting everything set. And you go back. The second year. And was there a sense of possibility like, okay, now we're going to execute. We have all these pieces in place. I have the support I need. I've got the guys who have my back. They know what they're

doing. Like everything is firing on all cylinders. And we're good to go. Yeah. We, I was super confident. I visualized it. We manifest that we knew it was happening. My wife Nicole, she's like, when she wants to manifest something, it happens the next day. So we're gonna get into the manifest. And funny thing is my whole life, I had been manifesting, but I didn't really know

until I watched the secret. Like, I don't know, maybe five years after it came out or something. And I was like, Oh, that's what I've been doing this whole time. Yeah. Is it? You're a, you're a generator, manifestor, right in the human design. I'm actually a generator, generator, generator, yeah. A generator. Yeah. Of course you are. Right. Yeah. So even though you had spent that entire

first winter there, it wasn't like, like, was anybody, like in the surf world, like, Oh, Garret's out there. Was that, that was sort of dismissed. Like, who knows what he's doing out there? Actually, Kelly and I were communicating before I went there. Yeah. And he, he would go there to hide from everybody. He panishes, you know, an hour, 45 minutes away where the contest is. And

he would go to Nazareth's a lighthouse and just hide. And he served a couple of little breaks and had fun and really just enjoyed the power and just sat there and awe. And I, we talked about a month before I was going. And then before you were going the first time. Yeah. And then two weeks before I went, he was on the lighthouse. And he's like,

Garret is just big. It's gnarly. If one mistake you might not be going home, please be really careful out here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, those are wise words. You know, from a guy who knows, but you had other plans. Right. So you got the second year. And this is where everything kind of lines up. Right. And I gather that like the swells are pretty frequent.

Right. You're not waiting. You're not having to wait around too long before these big waves start rolling in. Like it's pretty on the regular. Yes. Most frequent big wave spot in the world. Just the wind has to align. But nowadays, the guys are going out no matter what it's like, even if it's all windy and choppy, they're just charging. Yeah. How long into that second season

before you catch this 78 footer? It was November 11th. What? What? November 1st. Nicole, do you have to remember when we actually were I think we it was pretty quick, wasn't it? From the day we landed till the world record wave? Yeah. It was the first while we called audience, a Codian all over and it was on, right? Right. So you drop in on this huge

wave. It gets documented. You already have like this documentary crew with you though. Like how was was the docu series already locked in and in place? Or was this just kind of amateur footage that got cobbled together later once the documentary? City Hall hired a still photographer to document what we're doing. Mm hmm. He actually had a couple go or I had GoPro's I had GoPro's.

He had a camera that HDV so you could actually film. Second I landed. We became friends and I said, please do not turn the video camera off. You just have all this footage. And he did good. Yeah. He did really good. Yeah. It's incredible how much archival footage there is from those first two years. When nobody was expecting anything. Yeah. Yeah. So you ride the 78

footer. It's a story that quickly goes around the world. Essentially, essentially the biggest wave ever served in the history of surfing. My first question is, I kind of already know the answer, but I think it would be instructive for everybody listening or watching is how do you determine the size of a wave? And I loved CJ's description in the docu series about the kind of less

than scientific, sciencey approach to calculating all of this. It's literally impossible to actually get the height of a wave just because of the. I mean, if you got the Google Earth things now and you got these watches and you got everything measured. Everything and it's still pretty much impossible because you got to be able to come out to the flat. And everybody's measuring about 20, 30

feet up from the flat. And then you got the contour. Are you actually measuring the distance of that contour or you're measuring a straight line straight up? It's super controversial. Super. The finding the top is very easy. But then in the rules, it's where the surfer is. So say it's 80 feet here, but the surfer is over here and it's 60 feet. And then the change

is a lot. It was where the surfer is on the wave under his feet there instead of the other 30 feet or 40 feet. Because the surfer is not necessarily at the bottom of the wave. Never. We're never actually at the bottom. And the wave could be getting larger as the ride goes on. Yeah. Right. And then you have to take that. So you estimate where

the bottom is. Where it's cresting at the top. And then you have to measure the size of the surfer. And the surfer is generally in some kind of crouched position. They're not standing straight up. You can't say six feet or whatever. So you have to estimate that. And then you just do multiples of that to calculate it. Like it's. There's no way that you can get

an accurate reading on this. And this is something that is completely ephemeral. Like it exists for a moment and then it's gone. And there's no way of going back in time to figure it out. And people's careers are based around it. And they said that they measured my shim bone to get the size of the 78 foot wave. And I nobody measured my shim bone. You

remember right. And then there's the political aspect of it. Right. Who's making these decisions and what are their motivations. Usually it's sponsors in control. But once in a while there's no rhyme or reason. You're just like, but it may be it's continent. They want to sell more in that country or do more. They're from that country. And then other times I think it's right on the

right on the money. The person who wins is supposed to win. But mostly it's it's politics. Most WSL manages that now. Right. So they're independent on some level. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. They're they've grown women surfing beyond. I love watching women surfing now. The level of the surfing. And at first I was like, what are they doing? They're just trying to grow. But. They tats off.

They crushed it out of the park. And with this the tour they're doing great. With the big waves. This is always a battle with the surfers and their organization. And hopefully someday everybody will see eye to eye and it'll go where it should be today. For toe surfing should be like the NASCAR of. Mm hmm. Of surf. I mean, it could be huge. You get these

teams organized. You get these garages. You get. Yeah, it could be huge. And people could really be. That could be your retiring. But right now one or two actually get paid in the rest or just. Yeah. But hanging on by a thread working, working a day job and so they can surf. Yeah. Well, I you know, I feel like that's changing though. You know, people like

yourself and layered and you know, figuring out ways of making people interested in this art form and sport is really, you know, creating a larger and larger audience for this. I mean, everybody wants to see somebody surf a gigantic wave. Right. You know, right. So you surf the 78 foot wave and the video and the photograph like quickly goes all around the world. And suddenly you

being this, you know, relatively obscure later in life. Surfer is kind of foisted into the spotlight. And there's a lot of, you know, commentary around the validity of this whole thing. Right. My sense was that the traditional surfing community was somewhat dismissive. Like, that's a mushy wave. Like, I'm going to say, I'm going to go to the beach. That wave doesn't really count. Like, who knows

what's going out in Nazaree? Like, we're, you know, there was, there was a level of dismissiveness initially. Yeah. Definitely. The whole mainly the surfing world, the rest of the world loved it. Sure. Well, we know what we know CNN pops up on CNN and you see this tiny spec you like going down this insane way that looks like, you know, a sea monster. Right. And you're

like, wow, that's unbelievable. But the main reason it was dismissed number one, they didn't know or understand, never been there. Number two, it, uh, toe surfing was dead as I shared earlier. So nobody wanted to know anything about toe surfing in the surfing world. Um, it's true though, because Mavericks was a thing by now and, you know, close the jets, they closed no more jetski. Yeah.

They turned it into a sanctuary. It still is today. I mean, couple guys go out when it's really big and their safety guys are allowed. But, um, yeah, they've closed toe surfing there. Um, but it was challenging. Yeah. To, you know, I, I call it all my friends. I was emailing everybody. I'ma come on over this wave and, and then all of a sudden, all this

like, whatever. So my wife was like, once you cross over to CNN, be ready. Yeah. Now you're in that world. Right. Uh, you bet. Are you sure you want to do that? And on my, I just wanted surf, gold is to keep surfing. So whatever, uh, it's the easiest way to keep surfing. And if we got the intention of the whole world, then the surfers will

come. They'll, they'll get it together and, and everybody embraces it now and everybody's just so supportive. And we were at Malibu yesterday, it was a dream, all the boys, and we're taking all the kids out and just felt like home. I felt, it was so special. I was, I've had a lot of good days in Malibu. I love Malibu, but yesterday was so special. Yeah, that's

cool. That's cool. And it is amazing. Because now, everybody, you know, everybody in the world who knows anything about surfing knows Nazaree, right? And there's all this energy and focus on, uh, the winter season there and what's going to happen. And it really goes back to you. You're like, you're patient zero and you created like all of that out of your imagination and a simple email

that drew you there initially. And this belief, you know, this idea that something that had not yet existed was possible. It's cool. It's really cool. Thank you. Yeah, man. So even after that happens, you go back for the third year. And it's not like, oh, suddenly, like hundreds of surfers are showing up. The only people that show up, and I can't remember whether that was the

third or the fourth winter there was the, you know, a handful of these Brazilians. Yeah. They were the only ones who said, we need to go check this out. Yeah, there was a few teams that showed up on their own. And they were all hungry and there was, yeah, it was, it was interesting to watch. It was fun to actually see somebody else ride the wave.

Yeah. It got in the cliff and actually watch for a minute. Yeah. But what was interesting to me about that was the fact that they came in and despite the fact that you had three seasons banked and all this experience, they didn't seem all that interested in tapping into that knowledge base. They were going to go and figure it out on their own terms. And they

kind of got spanked. I mean, Maya almost died. Yeah, that was as a result of that. And it was a totally unnecessary. Yeah, it was very surprising. I'm an open book. I love to share. I love everything. Everybody just succeed. I don't try and hide things to, you know, I go, I got the best board and I'm just going to not let anybody have access. I

share everything. And, and I was ready to share everything. But I didn't want to impose, you know, when you have pulled people to listen anyway. And my where we're talking with Carlos and Maya and maybe a few other. Talking about Maya, Gabara, then went on to be the, you know, the world record center for the serving the largest wave for women. She's super inspiring herself, her

story and her, her achievements and her movies coming out soon. But my wife says, look, she, where I was leaving, she grabbed me. She got to go back there and tell them that if they fall here, they don't go that way. They go that way. So I grabbed them and I told them, okay, if anybody falls, they go to the, they go south. They don't go

because you would think it would go north up the beach, but you go south into the corner. And I explained very clearly. But, then when that accident happened, they did the opposite. They went, and they didn't have a rescue wave runner. That was the big thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. I know communication, I think, was down or something. Yeah. So Maya goes down hard. She basically, not

only almost died. Like I did. She actually died for a moment. Like they had to resuscitate her. It was bad, right? And then she has like a four year period of trying to rehabilitate herself before she comes back. Yeah. She's, superhuman. That girl is, she's excelling as good or better than all the guys out there these days. Yeah. When she, when she finally broke the record,

which, what was that? 2020, I think, when she was like a 73 footer or something. Yeah. Yeah. The New York Times article about that was written by Adam Skolnik, who's my co-host here. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we've talked about. I love to have her on here. She's good. She'd be fantastic. And she's very well-spoken. Yeah. Cool. Talk to me about the relationship with

fear. I mean, this is the low hanging fruit question, right? Everybody wants to know, like, what is, you know, what is it about you that makes you uniquely suited to, you know, approach these giant waves and, you know, sort of from a perspective of enthusiasm rather than terror? Well, my trainer says my body type is perfect. For big waves. I don't know about on. Just because

why the length of the legs and arms and also and, yeah. But, um, I had surfed the glacier waves and the last of the waves there were caused by cabin glaciers. And after that day, there's fear that I, the fear that I had when that glacier came down on that first wave and let go of the rope and I'm right and just teeny little wave and

looking at the glacier thinking, oh, shit, it could fall again. And then I'm dead. It crashed. It was overwhelming. Um, and then when I went back, I was already, I'd already surf so many waves, so many big waves all over the world and got in so many good pounding. Because my, my, the way I always approach it was all or nothing get to get the ultimate

ride, the ultimate feeling. And so I would always put it, goes deep as possible if I could put it all on the line. And with that approach, you don't make 50% of your waves. And I didn't mind because I felt like ready and I could handle it. I could hold my breath long. I was strong. And, um, with that, yeah. So I had first of all

endured so many heavy poundings. And then I went into the glacier and got desensitized from fear after the glacier. It was a funny standing joke whenever I kicked out of a wave and Tahiti words, the most death define my boy boys would be in the channel. And could you get the rush? And I'm being, I really don't know. I was a little maybe not the real

deal. So after 2007, I didn't, I wasn't afraid in the ocean anymore after the glacier. I literally was not afraid. I, I enjoyed all the situations I've, I've gotten myself into after that. Yeah. The, uh, like thoroughly enjoyed them. Just to, just to paint the picture though, a little bit more thoroughly. The footage of you in Alaska, trying to surf these waves that are being created

by the calving of these glaciers is absolutely amazing. Absolutely harrowing. I mean, massive sheets of ice are just falling off the sheer cliffs of these gigantic glaciers, which are causing a tsunami that you're there to ride, right? Yeah. It is literally. Yeah. And, and you, you have to position yourself close enough to the edge of the glacier in order to catch that wave, right? And if

the, if the ice falls directly down like in a sheath, it's all good. But if it decides to tip the ice, backwards and flat and land flat like a pancake, bookshelf. Is that what they call it? It's the book. You're, you're literally getting crushed like an ants. Is that so the sense that that could be possible at any moment was, and that's one of the few

times where you're like, I'm out like that first day there. You're like, this is not okay. I always visualize a positive outcome and always work on being positive and seen success in that moment. I visualize being smashed like a tomato is what I've been. And that was just, yeah, and even brought me to my knees, even if you survive that and you're riding the wave, there's

gigantic pieces of ice everywhere, right? Like you, I mean, the prospect that you would collide with one of those pretty high. And they're literally sharp cement floating. Yeah, it would be just like creating into a brick wall. Yes. Yeah. I mean, like why? Really funny. What friends will talk you into? And yeah, be careful what those friends talk you into. Really. I don't do it that

second day. You were out there doing it. I don't think things through too much. I just think if I feel if it's a good idea or not, and then I go. And then once I get into what I've decided to do, I'm like, oh, oh, yeah. Still try to stay positive. See the positive. It's a gut read. It's a gut insu. Yeah. I'll got, you know,

us generators. Yeah. There you go. Right. This gets into trouble a little bit. Like when you, I think it was two, was it 2016 when you had spent a number of seasons at Nazare, but you're like, I want to go surf these other breaks and be part of this competition of surfing the biggest waves all over the world and kind of travel a little bit more.

That lands you back at Mavericks. And the first wave out where you took this crazy spell and end up getting severely injured. It turns you down. Like, you know, a number of years to kind of get well again, I couldn't help but think like was there a little bit of ego and hubris like I've been surfing Nazare for a number of years now. Like, what's the

big deal with Mavericks? I can go out here and do it. No problem. Like having a little bit to Cavalier of an attitude and and lacking a little bit of respect for mother nature. So I went out a couple sessions before that one and you just the most crowded day ever and I got every single wave I wanted. Everybody's always from the green. That's not in

the series. I didn't get that. But it would have been nice. But I just got every people blown or blew blown away because Nazare you don't know where it's going to break. And I've been surfing that for five years. All of a sudden I showed up in Mavericks. Pete, go and I caught every wave of people. I was like in heaven. I was like, this is

too easy. And so then I'm like, okay, I want to be getting this contest. And so I went back every time I went back two times. And the third time was that January. Just got back from Nazare. Had a sore neck going there for the wrong reasons. Not for fun. And not I mean, I was going for fun. But I was thinking about getting that contest,

getting invited. How do I get invited? I got to show a good showing. Yeah, they told you you couldn't do it unless you showed up at Mavericks. Mavericks a number of times. And I've been surfing your reps. So wrong reason going there for a contest. Instead of going there just for fun. And not my neck was really sore that day. So I blew up my inflation

vest a little bit. So I could actually rest on it while I'm passing. Like a pillow. And board was a little too flat in the tail. It should have had more rocker. I got these two. Two waves that were 60 feet. The two previous swells. And I and the Peter Mel way. You know where the Peter Mel way. If you see that thing is the best

way of ever in the Mavericks. I was searching for that for years. And for the two sessions before the wipeout, I got one of those. Paddled, started and then it doubled up. And I couldn't make it down. So I'm standing, but I get kicked out the back twice. Two different sessions. So I'm like, I'm getting a bigger board, a heavier board. I'm going back to I'm

getting that wave. That would have been a good story to tell. Bam. Yeah. Mac me down. Yeah, a little probably not as much. I have all the respect, ultimate respect. I think the no fear was a little bit. Didn't make me as focused and cautious as maybe I could be. Yeah. More just like whatever. Mm-hmm. Good score. I don't want to eat it, but take them.

Bring it on. Right. So you break your foot. You break, smash your shoulder, all kinds of stuff. Right? That really benched you for a long time. Yes. Yeah. Still today. I mean, that. Scart tissue. Oh, wow. So you can't straighten your left arm. I can, but with help. But it gets better every day. Uh-huh. Yeah. We're going to talk a little bit about the yoga and

all that kind of stuff too. Before we kind of get it out, I'm going to talk about the 100 foot wave phenomenon. Right? Like I guess I'm probably one of those people who thought you surfed a hundred foot wave. I think there's a lot of people out there. It just think of you as like, oh, that's the guy you surfed a hundred foot wave because that

iconic famous photo, probably the most iconic big wave surfing photo ever taken was you dropping in on this wave that ultimately never really broke and you kind of surf out of it on the left hand side. Yeah. But you were on it long enough for that snap that went around the world and the mainstream news outlets all reporting that you surfed a hundred foot wave. That

was that be careful. That was kind of like the pain of your existence, but also like the thing that drew a lot of attention to you. Yeah. It was the most beautiful picture I think I've ever seen. And such a special moment. I was so thankful. I was so focused. I waited in the water for two, three hours for that wave. We want is that the

big mama. That's the right that goes into the safest wave. If it's over 80 under 80, the bleat, the most dangerous wave because it goes straight on the rocks over 80 goes into the channel breaks on that 60 foot shelf. It was almost broke into 60 and then kind of came into the 40 and just kind of fizzled off into the thousand foot channel. So if

they didn't show us at the end of that wave, I think that's the most dangerous way. If I kicked out and Kaylee came to get me and missed me and flew off the ski as well, then the second rescue came in. When by Kaylee, he's like, and it went by Kaylee and got me, but I'm paddling this little six foot twig that I can barely paddle

with all this rotation and the rocks are right there. And I'm right here. And this white, the second wave was bigger. So the white water's coming at me and I push the board and I swim under. I'm in this flotation suit that is just too much flotation to swim under. And I would have landed right on the rocks. There was a GoPro footage of that that

wasn't shown either. Would have been cool. But, but that ride was very special, but I was very, I was not happy at all. When I kicked out of that wave, it was, you know, I just didn't do what I wanted it to do. Right. It wasn't a full ride. Right. And you even said, like, please don't share those images. I didn't really ride this wave. It

wasn't. Nonetheless, they leak out. They go everywhere. This creates a huge media cycle around the whole thing. Like I didn't even run. I never said it was a hundred foot away. No, no. Most of that become a thing. Most challenge apart was surfer Europe, the photographer Tomane sent it to surfer Europe and surfer Europe titles that Mac and America claims to have surfed under for it.

Right. I mean, when you look at it, like, does it, did it measure out to be a hundred foot wave or no? Depends who's measuring. But the top to the actual bottom with the curve, 100, guarantee 100 foot wave. But the from here to there, I don't know, probably like 60, 70. So why didn't you fully ride it? Why did you decide to kick out? I

just ended. Because it wasn't. It didn't break. It was one of those cross ones that don't actually break. The one behind broke. Should have waited for the second. Wow. Wow, man. It's crazy. I want to talk about your upbringing. It's so colorful and unique. I mean, you have this, you know, truly original way in which you were reared. I mean, almost feral as a child. So

talk a little bit. I mean, you were born in Massachusetts, but you really kind of grew up in Berkeley. Paint the picture of, you know, what a what a typical day was like for you and your brother. Well, we, when we showed up in Berkeley, people's park riots has just finished. And, you know, there's a lot of tension in the air, but it was just kind

of subsiding. And I was just one and a half. So I didn't really know much except, you know, there was like 20 people living in this three bedroom house. And my parents would go, leave anytime they wanted and I'd be home with some babysitter. It was not really a babysitter. Just one of the hippies who was hanging out. And, um, so this was the commune house

that your mom started. And Berkeley, it was the gathering to get the commune people. Right. The commune was in Sonoma. Right. I mean, Casadero. Yeah. So your mom like inherited some money. Yep. And that was the goal. Like I'm going to build a community. A hippie community. Exactly. And she, did really well. I mean, we had some professors and there was people studying us. And it

was a really good group of people. They were very free spirited. You know, I was running around naked, um, taking whatever drugs. They felt like taking that day and doing whatever I felt like doing on that day. And, um, it was super. Um, I really enjoyed those those times. Um, it was just we were free. And my wife always says you were basically free from one

and a half, one and a half. They found me a mile down the road. Stopper's boarding school upstate New York. They found me a mile down the dirt road, getting ready to enter the highway in my diaper. And the cops pulled over. Grab me. And they call the house. And they're like, uh, you guys missing a girl and my mom. Like, um, girl. No. And if

she looked, oh, that's my check the diaper. Oh, yeah. It was a boy. It has my gear. Bring them. I broke. I just, this is a pair. But she, you know, she was always busy and didn't really, I mean, we let her watch our kids once in a while. And if we will watch from the window and she'll be going that way. And the kids would

be like, oh, oh, yeah. There's another word for that. That's less kind. You know, I mean, it's crazy that, you know, today, child services would have been called and that might have been that between you and your mom. I mean, it's pretty neglectful situation. And I don't think she was, she wasn't neglectful. She was just very self-absorbed. Right. There's another word for that too. It's interesting.

You know, my sense is that your mom, whether it's narcissism or neglect or just being consumed with her own quest, uh, you know, find meaning in her life or find God or whatever it is, uh, you and your brother just didn't, you know, really find your way onto her priority list in a, in a healthy way. And every time you kind of characterize your childhood, because

I've listened to a number of interviews with you, you're always painting it in, in bright, colorful language. Like it was fun. And we got to do what we wanted. And, you know, it was, I have joyous memories of all of that. Um, but Nicole's like, yeah, that's, you know, there's another version of that story. Like to me, like this is, this is, this is a traumatic

experience that it seems like you found. A way to compartmentalize or to process in your own way. And maybe that comes out in, in your surfing and in your, you know, quest for adventure in these various ways. But I would imagine it was very difficult with all the, you know, adventures that you went on with your parents. Yeah. The, the, the hundredth wave shows a bit

and it's interesting. It's my favorite number three is my favorite with all that craziness. But it's nothing compared to what. We went through. There was barely scratched the surface. And then the book, the, the, how to see. This shares a little, but there's nothing to scratch the surface. So when the feature film comes out, I was going to be, uh, Is there a feature coming? I

don't know. I'm a, I'm a, you know, I'm a generator generator. So I can't go and add. But if somebody comes to me and wants to do a feature film, I'll definitely entertain it. But they don't understand what's, what's the stories and the craziness and just, I mean, it would be kind of, if we did it right, it would be like R to the max and

just whacked out. And people would blow their mind. So, so what, what is it about it that, that hasn't been told? I mean, you're, so there's this community in Berkeley. Ultimately, there's this commune in Sonoma. Um, at some point, this isn't doing it for your mom. And she wants to go to Mexico. Your dad wants to stay. You go with your mom. Your brother gets left

behind. You end up on all these crazy adventures down. You get left. Did you get, like, you got left with a family and a Mexican family, a Mexican family, a done pipa and a family. Your mom was off on her own, going to pick up money. I think she was going to get money. Or I don't know what she was doing. She was always always trying

to figure out how to pick up money from the inheritance at some bank or somewhere. And then always doing something. Um, yeah. There was a lot of time. We got left with different people. But that was by your recollection, like a staple, healthy environment, when you got left with that family. That was, it was really good. It was animals and you could have stayed there. I

loved it. They were just beautiful Mexican family that had a ranch. And so I guess she felt really safe. You know, I have to give my mom a lot of credit. She moved us to Hawaii. She gave us our free spirit. She, um, she loved us. She would play music, sing us, sing, put us up. I mean, she was, she was good overall. Um, it was

very unconventional. But yeah, she was loving and she was, you know, just, you know, my wife now is a polar opposite. She is 100% present all the time. And, uh, so I got, you know, I think that's what really attracted me to her is that I was always looking for my mama. Yeah. Well, you could have been, you know, very well ended up marrying a version

of your mom. I mean, that's what a lot of people do. They seek out that same kind of relationship again. And the pattern repeats itself. So it feels like you, of course, corrected here and found the healthy, the healthiest type of relationship that you could to kind of mend that and, you know, sort of arrest the repetition of that unhealthy cycle. I just had the podcast

that just went up this week is with this guy, Dr. Gabbo Marte. I don't know if you've heard of him or followed any of his work, but he does sound familiar. He's, uh, he, he, he, he became prominent for his work around addiction and recovery. And this thesis that he has that most addicts or addictions can be traced back to unresolved or unhealed childhood trauma. And

he's sort of more currently extrapolated on that thesis to say that so much of what ails us, whether it's physical or mental can be traced back to unknown. And that discussion around trauma and how it manifests in our lives and later in life in terms of like behaviors that we perpetuate or relationships that we can involved in. I think is, is, is really profound. And one

of the things that he helped me reckon with is this idea of separating, like when you look at how you were parented, right? Like, I love my mom and my dad or whatever. And I don't want to say anything bad about them. But he was able to help me out. And I don't want to understand like, you're not vilifying them. Like they did the best that

they could. It doesn't mean that they're bad people. But that also doesn't mean that you didn't incur trauma because of decisions that they made about how they parented you. And I feel like you're protecting your mom. And maybe there's an opportunity, a growth opportunity for you to really get into some of what transpired when you were younger in a way that you can make peace with

it that would make you feel more whole. It was just, you know, work on being positive. And but there was definitely things I held onto. And I did a 3.3 gram mushroom medicine. Right. I did four days in the mountains doing the medicine wheel. It's a book where you go through and work on all these different things that apply to mostly your past. And then you

go to the, the mushroom, the medicine isn't, you know, isn't required or necessary. If you do the book, you can do it in your living room better to go to the mountains and away from everybody. That's what I did. But then I did a 3.3 gram journey. I let go of everything. Said, thank you to it all. It's like, yeah, I'm so feel so light and

so good. And I'm good. And none of it is holding me back or taking me down or weighing on me. It's all I've had a nice, uh, conversation. Thank you. Not serving me anymore. Love you. That's great. Good for you, man. Did you do that under supervision or just read this book and decided to do a DIY trip? A good friend of mine, Eric Nice. He

shared the book with me. And then he flew over and guided the journey. Right. Wow. How long ago was that three months ago? What? Three or four months? I was recent. Wow. Wow. But that was a breakthrough for you. Oh, visiting all these things that are just stuck. Let it them go. Loving that choosing the love them all was the key. Mm-hmm. Choosing the love all

those situations, all those challenging moments, all those life experiences that you might categorize as, like, I love you. Thank you. Right. You got me where I am today. I love you. Thank you. I wouldn't be right here now. That's true. Thank you. All these experiences are so here to create, you know, this, this incredible hero's journey that you've been on. We're brought to you today by

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Liam comes, but your brother is back in the picture, right? Like you and your mom and your brother all go together. Yeah. To the North Shore. Yep. Cause she hooked up with some other dude or there's a stepdad involved or what was happening. Musician, a black musician, his name was Darryl. And we tried to go to Florida, like two or three times. First, when we jump

in the car, you place an ad and somebody, okay, yeah, jump drive with me. Some whack job, like weirdo. We jump out quick. We have a lot of them out on the road. I think it's happened twice, going to Florida. And then we're going to Hawaii. They're all of our friends. Throw this big party for us. Oh, sorry, we can't go. Finally Darryl actually gets us

to Hawaii through Darryl. We got to Hawaii. And we end up on the North Shore. And probably the, I mean, we're in Hawaii on the North Shore, but we're in the least desired spot called cement city. Right. So it's kind of like a affordable housing project type apartment buildings. Yes. And we were, you know, Darryl was a musician. And he actually worked with Don Holt's daughter.

And he was, he was good. And then he left us as soon as we got there. He's my mom. So then we're on welfare and government assistance and this, and my mom was just depressed. And you're like, what? 11 11. I went to first year of elementary was, oh, the only white boy in the class and all Filipinos and Hawaiians. And, and you basically didn't really

go to school, though, right? Like you'd go on the front door and out the back door. That was during elementary in, in California. Oh, wow. So I never went to school. We would go to UC Berkeley every day and hang on the campus from five to, no, from like, we know, like six or seven to 11. You never went to school. We would literally go climb

the fire escape of these buildings and go and pull all the marijuana plants and go home and roll fat. You know, we're going 10 years old. So you're rolling fat joints. 10. Oh my God. We ate peyote up there and the, and the, and the, I ate peyote was about five. Was that because your dad was running a vegetarian restaurant. He was serving it at the

restaurant. Is that true? He wasn't serving pot. He, but he had a, it was mob goodness cafe on the Shaddakin Ashby. Uh-huh. Oh, right in the thick of it. Yeah. And we were on Emerson to two block street. Mm. It was right back from Shaddakin, one block back from Shaddakin Ashby. Uh-huh. Holy Foods was on the corner. I don't know if it turned into Whole Foods

was Holy Foods. Uh, yeah. So, yeah, we were wild and we were free. And we did whatever we wanted. We would stay out till 12 to whatever from seven to 11. We were free. There was a, the serial killer was on like, killing right in our down and we're out there and told that was that Zodiac era. I think so. I don't know which one it

was, but we were out when he was out. Uh-huh. And we weren't supposed to be. It's total insanity. It reminds me of, uh, I now imagine the, the, put that into a, yeah. I mean, yeah. Have you read Fleas book, acid for the children? I would just look in at that. Yeah. I have it right over there. You should read that book. I mean, it's pretty

similar. I mean, he was a feral kid and he had, you know, kind of a chaotic, you know, family situation. But he was just running wild on the streets of LA at a very young age. You know, it's, it's a, it's a version of your story and in some, yeah, we skimmed the surface on. I mean, you paint those pictures of killers over there on the

left and you're over here on the right shooting off rockets that you stole the date that day. Right. All right. So you're in Hawaii elementary school. So at some point, a surfboard gets introduced to you. I mean, you're on the North Shore. It's almost inevitable that you're going to end up in the waves. We were super lucky. Normally, a howdy who enters a school. You're going

to get beat and it's not going to be fun. I got super lucky. First day I'd go out of fight with this one guy and got him good. And then the Nardist guys in the school came and we were best friends and we made a gang. We had our leather jackets. I, we, we, yeah, it was funny. And then the principal calls in your office and

says, up, no gangs in my school takes our leather jackets. But I'm sorry, the question, where were we going? Surfboard. Surfboard. Mom goes to a garage sale and buys a board for 15 bucks and brings it home. And that was our board. It was like 12 feet long, about 50, 60 pounds. And thinking the book, it says, we found it in the bushes. Yeah, there's a

lot of different. My brother said, my brother remembers everything. My brother, Liam. And it was like a love at first sight type of deal. Or what, how did the, you know, relationship with surfing kind of flourish from there? Well, the first encounter was with our best friend, butchie boy and his dad had a bunch of knee boards. These beautiful artwork on these knee boards on the

wall. And then it was his birthday and he said, oh, come, we'll go surfing. My dad's knee boards and we went out. We were going to go over and about to go on the east. So we went straight to our feet, fell in love. That was that nothing mattered on the land. Whatever was going on the land disappeared during the water. You had shorts, warm water,

surfboard. You're just in heaven. It was too good. It consumed us and became our passion, became our love, became my everything. It was a bit, took Liam a few more years. He loved baseball. And he was already being scouted by the UH of scouting him. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I didn't realize that initially, he's the surf star. Oh, for 10 years, he made the guy, like

he was a big deal. Big, he made as much or more money than anybody for about 10 years. And he made money for at least a whole of 20, maybe 25 years. Good money. Right. Easier younger brother. Yeah. Yeah. And so he's getting all these accolades. He's on the cover of all the magazines. He's taking home prize money. But ultimately, like he, he becomes a victim

of his own character defects, right? Like he's a hothead. And ultimately ends up like making a lot of enemies. At least that's the way the narrative is spun in the docu series. He was, he didn't back down. He ruled Rocky point and did his best to rule pipeline. His best to rule both those spots. Those two spots were the most photographed spots in the world. He

got more waves than anybody guaranteed for 10 years. So he had a really good career just based on pipe and Rockies. We loved going to Japan. We go to Australia. I would kind of be in his shadow. Get to go along once in a while and try and surf in the contest. I never did any good. He would always kind of, he would do, you know,

he was a fierce competitor. He was going to beat you. You have to get three waves in 20 minutes. He's going to pal around you and take that. He's not going to let you get any way to forget the etiquette and the decorum. But there was none when it came to those heats. All the boys, all the surfers. It was doggy dog. And you're not friends

once you get that heat. Nowadays, it's a little different. They're a little more friendly until the end of the priority. It's just there's real rules now with the priority. So, but back then it was, if you're a Hawaiian or you're from Hawaii, you had an edge because all the surfers around the world want to go to Hawaii. And if you're a bad ass and you're out,

you're hung with the boys, you're one of the boys. When they come to Hawaii, they're going to get sent home if they mess with you anywhere else. So even in these heats in Japan, he's being rewarded for that behavior. Until the magazines blackballed him and the judges started giving him .5 less always. If he was going to win a heat, he had to really win it.

Like, there was a pipe master's that he, I think he won. I'd like to watch the tapes again, but they scored Kelly Stader .5 higher on each wave and scored him a .5 lower on each wave. And ultimately, at some point, you start catching up to him. So what was going on? How were you able to no longer be the older brother in the wake of

his younger brother and surpass him? It's funny because I'm still. I'm really no longer in the wake. But once in a while, I'll meet somebody who knows Liam or knows of Liam and didn't know me. And they're like, whoa, you guys are totally opposite. But. Toe surfing. I started to surfing to get away from all the crowds. There's so many crowds and layered and fuzzy and

Derek show up with their jet. So the act and I saw it. So I ran home. I got my board. I'm sitting at sunset with my 10 foot board. And I'm about to paddle out there to ask them to to me into one. And this was the first very very first experiment with this. Busy curve box and yeah, that original OG. And crew. And I sat

on the beach with my jaw. They bait you know, they're old cartoon characters for the job. Drops of the ground and didn't move me and Johnny boy gums and we're just watching. And then I from then on, I was obsessed. I bought a Zodiac, pinnigiant shark mouth on it tried to do it. My Zodiac. It was and then my friends got a C2 jet boat, Charlie

Walker and Doss and Jones got this pontoon. So jet ski with a pontoon basically. And they brought me in. And that was it. That was it. So it went from I'm never going to be a big wave surfer. That wasn't cool to it's all about big waves now. Well, no, I actually was from till 16. I was scared to death. The big waves. I was not

going to surf over 10 feet, 10 feet face. And then after 16, I fell in love with big waves. A friend made me go out when I did not want to and gave me the right board, gave me the right advice. And I got every wave I want is I live for big waves from that day forward. But it was a my career was based around

Japanese sponsors pretty much a couple USA sponsors. And then I loved big waves. But there wasn't much there for a big wave surfer. You know, there wasn't really these soul surfers or free surfers. But I like all this old surfer. But I made a little money like five or no month, maybe 1500 the most for all these years. I had to rent rooms to pay for

the pay the bills and in my house. And then toe surfing was to get away from everybody. And all of a sudden it became this cool sport that actually everybody was interested in. Because you know, all of us have had an experience in the water as a traumatic experience in the water, whether it's a bathtub, a lake, a river, an ocean. Sometimes throughout our life, most

all humans have had a traumatic. We have utmost respect for waves and then big waves. Like how? And so they're just captivated and interested. So all the sudden this. I was energy around this thing. Yeah. You had been into just for the pure joy of it. Not because like, oh, there's a way to be pro and a way to support myself doing this. So you become

the guy who's working to live, right? Like it's just I got a major thing. I'm like, enough money so that I can go surf the waves. I want to surf. The money was more for the family. When I got the job, but I got to so it was just kind of like kids or just to stay home and take care of the kids and hopefully take

them all on the trip. Right. So you open up this store on the North Shore. Was it a surf shop? Yeah, it was called Epic Sports. And it was a surf shop, but it was a there was a little bit of MMA stuff in there. Bad boy was my partner and sponsor. And that's between how are you during this period of 35. Yeah, I think about

35 is when I actually, oh wait, was 35 was when I closed the store was 30 to 32 to 35. Right. So for three years, okay, you know, I'm not going to go work in a cubicle. I'm going to be a little bit of a small business entrepreneur. At least I can control. I was created Epic Empire. It was not going to be so really huge

worldwide. Right. So this is franchises of this store all over the world surfing these MMA. Yeah, Epic Sports. All right. But you know, quickly you become a bit of a working stiff, right? Who's like driving by the waves on the way to work and you know, kind of living this life of quiet resignation. Yeah, gave up on my passion, opened that store and quiet was the

word and you're doing what you need to do to support your family, the bills and, you know, be responsible adults. That's what I thought. But it definitely brought me to become somewhat depressed. Yeah, it's just because I would drive by these perfect waves every day going to work. And I'd be like, I'm going to work in a way. Yeah, I see. I mean, I've got a

lot of myself in this story. I mean, the facts of my, you know, narrative are quite different. But you know, I had my version of that. Like at at 40 this existential kind of crisis about what I was doing, how I was spending my time. The choices that I had made about how to make a living and just being deeply unhappy with all of that. But

also feeling very confused about how to resolve that, right? So walk me, you know, in your version of of this story, like what was the most important thing that I was doing? Was the tipping point or what, you know, what, what occurred to lead you to this place of saying, I can't do this anymore. Like there's something else, something bigger, something better out there for me.

If you don't mind, I'd like to know your tipping point. Well, I got to give you this book. But I had, I mean, mine was, you know, mine came in the form of a little bit of a hell scare that coincided with this, you know, kind of low grade depression about, you know, where I was in my life. And that created a little bit of a

perfect storm. And my resolution began with just changing my relationship to myself, first through food and then through movement. And that very slowly kind of led me in a new direction. So it was a, it wasn't like a, like a lightning bolt kind of thing where everything changed quickly. It was a very gradual shift. Interesting. I'm going to get that book. Yeah. I got a few

side in it. I'll tell you about you, bro. Okay. So. Going driving to the store, perfect waves, got to go work. That was where it was like, and I started drinking coffee at 35, but 33. When I open the store, the first time I started drinking coffee, and meaning like for the first time in your life, you needed something external exogenous to excite you or get

you energy. Yep. Whereas prior to that, you never needed that. No. And so we get to the store. And I remember, okay. I'm going to tell you about that. And I'm going to get to the store. And I remember, okay. I wrote a business plan for this store. I got that business plan for dummy's book and it made a business plan for the store. And I'm

like, oh, let's see if we can do that to keep surfing. So I put on the keep surfing, the goals, when the Eddie, when the jaws, how do I do that? I eat very, you know, the eating program, the training program, the manifesting visualizing. And did that for from that day. And since I wrote that plan and focused so much time and I had put it

on the refrigerator, I put it in the car, I put it in the bathroom mirror, the map, the blueprint to achieve these goals. And... So there was clarity though. You knew, okay, I got to get back to surfing. How am I going to do that? I've got a family, I've got bills. Well, jaws, Eddie, those are contests with prize money, right? So the quickest way to

put money in the bank account is to win one of those. How am I going to win one of those in the short term? And then long term, it becomes about sponsors and all of that, right? So is that what the business plan looked like? I'm interested in like, what were the line items in the business plan? And how did those translate into sticky notes with

specific goals or mantras that we're going to lead you in that direction? It was the winning was everything. Because with that would come the sponsors and the partners. And did you have a history of winning competitions where you knew that that was a feasible possibility or was that more like a pipe dream to win a big contest? I've been surfing, why man more than anybody up

to the store. I had been towing. I was real confident that I was going to win. I knew that Eddie, I was winning. There was no doubt in my mind. The jaws, I thought I could win that as well until I went there after writing my goals. I went there for the first time. They called the contest on and it was windy and small. So they

cancel it, but we went out and told it for the first time. And it was terrifying. So powerful. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm winning. I'm winning Eddie. I just want to come home and Maui had that jaws. I just want to come home. Right. So for people that don't know, jaws is the huge wave on Maui. It's the one that layered kind of made

fans. And this was layered and derrick and buzzing. And this was at the time when there was, it was all about jaws, right? Because layered was there. And that was, that was the naza ray of that moment. Yes. Yeah. And Eddie is North Shore Oahu. So that's your backyard. That's literally my, I could see it from my friend. So it would make sense. Well, Eddie is

probably the better opportunity for you because you know it so well. Contest day arrives. They call both of them on. Same day. They don't have, we don't have the computers looking at the booze. You have to call every hour to see where the booze are at. Because that's how you know how big the waves are going to be. And I'm literally calling every hour. Checking the

booze, checking the booze all the way. I sleep a little bit call sleep a little call. So four a.m. I was still undecided. I have my partner, Drudry Gorsende, my teammate on Maui waiting. And I was in the Eddie. The previous year, I'm the only surfer in history that I was number nine alternate. And number nine didn't come. And I'm paddling out. Elijah Young didn't show.

This is it. Eddie. I'm paddling out in the Eddie. I get out there. Elijah makes that paddles out. Garrett, you got to paddle in. Meaning you're out. You can't compete. Right. Devastated beyond. But okay. But the universe has another plan for you, Garrett. Right. So I'm still. And now I'm seventh alternate, not night. And yeah, I just couldn't see myself sitting on that beach. Not knowing

if I could surf or not. And the main thing is I had my teammate waiting for me. So at four a.m. I rushed to the airport, got on the plane. And went to get over to Maui. Yeah. Right. And said, let's drop in here. What was the difference in prize money between Eddie and jaws? Who Eddie was, I don't know, like 20 grand or something like

that. Oh, maybe 50. It was. It was. The Eddie was could have been kind of high back. But Eddie was kind of the more. Most prestige out. It's. Yeah. That's his last name. Right. Eddie. I honor of this legendary surfer. And that was like the prestigious one to win. Eddie, I count invitational. The one we all big wave surfers dreamed. To be in is like the

pinnacle. Uh-huh. And uh, but the jaws are the first of its jaws are the first of its kind. But they had $70,000. Prize money. More prize money. But you're less experienced on this wave. You would never surf this wave before. And my partner get this. He's never told before. So he shows up on a Wahoo. This is not looking good. He shows up on a Wahoo.

And I tell okay, let's go practice. So I take him over to this little wave. It's called. Police Beach. And it's this little teeny wave that's about, it just tall, maybe a little bigger. But it breaks just like jaws. A nice right to go in the channel. Left. It's kind of gnarly. And I tell him just put me on that right. And it's this big. And

he puts me exactly on the way. Perfect. And I'm like, oh, we got this. Don't worry. He's like, what the fuck are you talking about? We got. I'm going to go. We got to don't worry. Because I, I mean, I had my plan. I knew how to win. I knew what to do. And I shared with him. And I said, we focused and we didn't train

that much. And, but I knew that he just had to put me on the wave. The rescue guys will pick me up. So he would put me on the wave. The rest of you guys will get me. And he was like a shark. He was a badass. Like he was so into, you know, I was sharing some people will never learn and other people learn quick.

I was a slow learn. I took me a while to get good. This guy was good instantly. So, and he surf better than every, he was more focused than any big wave surfer at that time for paddling. And I was like, you know, you go to jaws and you feel confident. But it wasn't like there was an expectation that you were going to win this competition,

right? Who were the, who were the people that were expected to win? Oh, they were all there. I pieced Parsons and Gerlach and all the Maui boys. I mean, yeah, it was, those, those are really good solid showing. Uh-huh. But yeah, they definitely none of them were probably thinking about me and Rodriguez. And you're held 30, 35, 35, right? You're the first time of your physical

career as a professional athlete. Okay. What are you talking about? I know we're going to get to that part. Like, it's all love. Garrett. Listen. Listen. You know, I didn't, I didn't start getting into my athletic stuff into my 40. So, oh, wow. All right. So long story short. You end up winning this competition. Like when you think back on that, I mean, two questions. First,

what was it that you did that allowed you to win? Like what was the secret sauce in that victory? More importantly, like what do you, what do you make of that in retrospect looking back, you know, at the arc of your story and kind of everything that's transpired as a result? Because that, this is another huge inflection point that sets up the ability for you to

have a life as a surfer and go on to do all these other things. First of all, we had a magic seven to brewer and from Laird and then, you know, working with Dick, they made what was the best at that time. And I was lucky enough to tap into that specific four jaws. Yes. But didn't everybody have that border now? They all had versions, their

own version, but seven, too. That was long. We're on six O's now. It was still dinosaur. Right. And everybody had dinosaurs, but they all had the similar dinosaurs compared to what we're on now. But so I sat down. I said, look, we're, you know, he went first for, I think it was like 45 minutes, 30, 30, 30, 45 minutes. And then I, we had half, half

of the heat was me happy. It was him. I put, I said, look, we're making you make three waves, no matter what. I'm putting you in a safe enough spot. So you can make the waves. I'm, I'm really a driver already. So I put him in a safe zone. So he can make the waves. He made a three or after you make three waves, you can

then we'll get barreled. That was the goal. Then pull in, but until you make three waves, don't even think about pulling in. So he made a three waves, fourth wave, he pulled in. It got, he kind of clamped on the top. And he got, and I went in to pick him up. And he jumps on the sled and this wave is coming. It's all foaming. The

ski's not going like stuck in mud. And this massive wave is coming. And then the selfless guy that he is, he looked, he, and he was already beat from that first one. He was tired. He pushes the sled. As the wave catches us. And then the ski goes up 10, 50, maybe 20 feet higher. I'm up there. And I'm just like, there's done. There's no way

you can come out of this. But I, I got my feet in these footstraps. I got my hand on how much, and my number one first sponsor ever. It was his, I got my hand on how much. And my number one first sponsor ever, it was his jet ski by chance. He lavish use it. And I'm about to bail, but I just kept holding it. Flooming

out in front, landed. I mean, that was the hand of God. If there ever was a hand of God, that was it. So basically what you're saying is he put you by hooker, by crook. And the most unlikely situation you ended up exactly where you needed to be to get this wave and have this ride of your life. Well, him, he got the way he got

the way he got the way he got the three good waves. So the way it works is you alternate surfing and towing with your partner. Right. So it's a two man gig. Yes. And you're getting scored as, you know, how you kind of do collectively as a team. So those three waves each. Right. And then the purse you split. Persons or depends on what you do.

I won't ask you whatever that was. Absolutely. And ultimately you end up becoming victorious in this, in this event, in an unlikely way. I'm sure people were surprised like this 35 year old guy who had seemingly retired, suddenly is back. What did the surfing world make of that at the time? Not much. No. They swept up out of the rug. It kind of made like Parsons

girl like Williams brother had kind of a thing, but like we don't need to pay too much attention to that. Well, I'm gonna him further. Yeah. But Parsons got the best way for the contest is crazy wave and made it. And they just really pumped that up and all the surf media in Brazil was a big thing. Just Brazil, me and Rodrigo ones, studio mega, it

was a sponsor, global TV, the biggest network. It's going on prime time. So we, I was huge in Brazil. The rest of the surfing world still didn't really know much. And the sponsors didn't start flying in. And I thought to myself, okay, well, now I'm going to Heaty. And I'm gonna go get something big there. And we went and I got a cover on surfer. And

then of course I won the contest. They knew of the word. Oh, but nobody. Oh, well, who is this then I go to Heaty get this frickin incredible wave that graces the cover of all kinds of magazines all over the world. And then I'm going to care. So I was watching. The boys at jobs and I'm just like, what the hell are they doing on my

end? The end of barrel. And then I went there that first time. I was like, Oh, now I know why they're not the barrel. This wave is, it's jobs. It's trying to eat you. And it's not nothing to play around with. And now I know why. But I, I understood why, but I still wanted to go get barrel there. So I went that next winner, 2003.

God, the barrel. So now I get to the first guy to get barrel to jobs. I don't know about the frickin barrel. But I got a really good one. And so I got the win. Then I got to Heaty. Then I got the barrel. The funny thing about the barrel is they put on the cover. It's me. But it says layered and company. So I get

it's like, so I could only imagine people going, how's that barrel? And he's going, oh, yeah. It was, it was to trip. Right. Yeah. So then, but the sponsors started coming. I got on a I was working with Red Bull a little bit since I had the store. And they were coming all in. And then Then I had a manager came in right then made me

a website. And then we got, I was with Excel. The managers screwed that deal. Yeah, things work. I had this manager who wasn't in surf. He was a senior vice friend of time Warner and marketing and production. And he retired and then took me on as his main project. So I learned everything. I knew nothing. I mean, I was a surfer that did not want his

face, did not want his name, did not want anything. Don't want to talk about what I just did. Just, and he's like, he got to make a poster. Gary McNamary. Gonna do this. Go to that. Well, it was a, there's a convergence of a couple things happening here. I mean, first of all, culturally within surfing, it's not cool to promote yourself. It never had been. It

was, you know, the punk rock of it all was to just go out and surf ways for the joy of it. If anybody's paying attention fine, but you're not going to be the guy out there throwing stuff up on social media. But that's because social media didn't exist. And also, you know, carving out a career outside of the very narrow scope of what it meant to

be a pro conservative surfer was starting to change. And with, with the advent of these new surfing technologies and toe in surfing and all the experimentation that was kind of being led by layered in his cohort of, of surf renegades, yeah, suddenly. And, and then with social media, kind of being layered on top of that, there was this sense of possibility. Like you could craft or

carve out a career that lived outside of those traditional notions of how to make a living. But that meant that you had to be not necessarily shameless, but you had to be in control of your own kind of promotional engine. And responsible for getting the word out about what you were doing. Because, you know, ultimately, you, you, you have the responsibility to shoulder like getting sponsors

and all of that manager or no manager. And layered was the OG, the guru, the guy who broke out of the surfing and went to the rest of the world. And I really watched and learn and really embraced how he did things. And, and, and, you know, I'm really, I'm really looking forward to seeing how he could do that. So when this senior vice president guy

is telling me, I'll just have the other thing. I'm like, okay, okay, okay. Not what I want to do, but that's what they're doing. So we'll do it. But so. And that's what, yeah, it was from there. You'll be the doors to soap and they started knocking on my door. I didn't have to knock on doors. It was, it was amazing. It was the first time

in my life. I wasn't. Hey, he sponsored me. Right. But the business plans working. It was kind of work. Yeah. You are, you're manifesting, you're generating. It's all happening. You're able to pay the bills. It's all about that goal. And that blueprint. It works. But you know what? The number one thing in, in all of our sports or careers or whatever is carving out a niche.

Because a niche has longevity. You, you might not be the best for more than a year or two. But if you have a little niche, you're the, just, you're the yogi. Of this or you're the Jack Johnson or you're the photographer. You're still in the world. You're still in surfing. But by carelessly through the niche that you carved out. So you were conscious of that. And

what, what, how would you define the niche that you were carving out or attempting to carve out at that time? I was just the guy who would just put it all the line bullet, I mean, my friend would call me bulletproof and I felt bulletproof. And I had a little flotation that nobody else had. So I was a little innovation. They didn't realize they didn't, they're,

what do you do with that? They're laughing and going, and I'm going to, but anyway, please come pound me. No problem. I'm coming up. Uh-huh. And so they thought I was kind of crazy. They didn't realize it was calculated crazy. And at what point? I mean, you're, your first marriage ends up sort of dissolving, right? Around this time. Yep. What was going on? There. Uh-huh. Lack

of support, um, lack of trust. And rightfully so I wasn't in the best place. Yeah. Um, and you got, you, that first, I mean, you got married really young. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and what's your relationship to like drugs and alcohol and all of that? I mean, you had this crazy childhood where it seemed like it was, um, omnipresent, but did you grow out of that?

Or was that still part of your world at that time? I smoked pot from 12 to 22. Uh-huh. Yeah. Sopt in 89, um, never really liked the taste of alcohol, but loved a good party, loved, uh, you know, a couple with corons with lime, tastes good and with some tequila and then you're having a great Irish. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then you have a great time. Uh,

to be honest, cocaine was something that we played with a little bit when we're really young. We, my brother and I got into it and then I went to Japan. I was 19 and saw that I could have a career. And then that's when I put pot, put everything and then got my brother to and, um, I slowly got sucked back into cocaine a bit and

it wasn't, wasn't pretty to be honest at all. It wasn't a party anymore. It was just like dark and. Is that when you were depressed, getting depressed. Yeah. When you had the store. Yeah. Yeah. There was things that led up to it. I mean, if I went back probably some childhood things, but more things that happened in my relationship with my wife that really depressed made

me bummed out about our relationship because of things that she did. So I would probably, that was probably what really, I mean, I can't blame anybody. I take four responsibility. I chose to, you know, I chose it. I, I, so it was all me. Um, was there things that definitely weighed on me. With that, I let weigh on me. Yeah. Now I'm choosing not to let

anything wear me love it all. Mm hmm. Yeah. So it sounds like a lot of the use was kind of situational. Or environmental, like when you make these, made these decisions at different times to, like, walk away from it, you were able to do that. So you never went down some, like rampant addiction, rapid hole or anything like that. You were able to kind of put

it in the rear view when you needed to or need to funny because I would. On my birthday August 10th, I would have one last big party and then I would train and until I accomplished something really huge and then I might go for the rest of the. Uh-huh. I'm telling myself my birthday, I can't, is that still going on or you know, no, I've been

since I'm at Nicole. I've been just. Well, let's talk about Nicole. Like that's the other huge inflection points. So the inflection points that, that, like I'm trying to, like, like map it out. Like you have, you know, moving to Hawaii, of course. And then, you know, there's winning jaws, like these kind of pivotal moments in your life. But certainly I don't, I don't see any more

important or monumental pivotal moments. And then the pandemic, and you're like, Oh, I don't see any important moments in your life. That, uh, exceeds meeting Nicole and kind of how. The impact that that she has had in the this relationship has had on on like how you are not just on your surfing, but like how you are as a man and and you know what you

value and what you're, you know, choosing to invest your time in et cetera. So talk a little bit about meeting her and kind of what this well, it's funny. You know, the cartoon character I was when I saw layered in them with my jaw on the floor and when I saw her, it was like the cartoon character that gets levitates and drags across by his toes.

It was just love at first sight. And it was, um, yeah, I was just captivated by her, her beauty, her, her present, just being in her, you know, you're full. She's so present and so inspiring and so, uh, everything that I've dreamed, but everything that I dreamed of him in a, in a partner, a life partner, it was, she was right there in front of me.

You guys met in Costa Rica. Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico. Had a surf or ceiling, Uncle Ezi Pasquit. So I was supporting his, um, surf or ceiling event in Puerto Rico. And she was there at the charity dinner. The night before helping with the flower arrangements through her dad's friend who was doing the flower arrangement. She was there for a race. She's a badass paddler. She's like,

and, um, we met and that was it. It was, it was nothing that could stop it. Eight or something like that. How long? 10 or 10 10 10. So shortly after you guys met that you ended up in Nazare, then I didn't realize that timeline was so compressed. Yeah. Wow. Wow. She comes into your life and then suddenly, because I was in a surfs Portugal. Oh,

we went on the most amazing journey ever. We lived out of a suitcase for three years. Uh-huh. And it was the best time of our life. Our life is still like too good. I'm like pinch me. I can't even believe where we're right now. But that was the most, um, we were just present and together. And I mean, as she says, I held on to her

every word. I would said, you know, anything and everything she wanted at all time. And the same thing for me and how's before the kids? I think, you know, like I can't help but like try to compare your story to my story. And I don't want to make it about me. But, you know, I have a similar, I've had a very similar experience in many ways.

And there's something about my relationship with my wife, who's very different from me that creates a certain kind of powerful alchemy. And I see that in your relationship. Like the sum of the two of you together is much greater. And then the sum of its parts, right? Because of this partnership and what you each bring to this equation, you've been able to, you know, accomplish things

and manifest things that, you know, I'm sure exceed what you would have thought possible for yourself. Yeah. Literally since we've joined forces, we literally strongly without a doubt feel that we can pretty much do anything we want. Like anything. There's nothing that we can't do. If we want, if we put our mind to it. Yeah. And where does that come from? It comes from, well, you

know, that's secret. And then I've read, I've been into Deepak Chopra, Seven Spiritual Laws success. But it really comes from, she's very organized. And I think most of all, it's because all of our, the things that we focus on are more selfless and somehow we want to get back with whatever we're doing. When you have that aspect to it all, you really can't fail. I mean,

you know that you get the goal, you get the plan, you get the roadmap, but you have a selfless approach to it. That's the secret sauce and everything. If you're in a mindset and have a plan to be giving more than you're receiving or looking to receive for me, that's always been a recipe for you. Manifesting things even larger than what you imagined. I like that.

I have to, yes. Yeah. You're the doer and you're the dreamer. Nicole is very much the structure and the feedback loop and the accountability piece is a projector project. Projectors. He's bad ass. He does it. Like he has a lot of things. He's a line of people that want it so bad and cool, but he, yeah, I've very rarely does one. I love it. He's really

good. But I want to, I want to like kind of double click on this and really try to deconstruct this process for, for people that are listening or watching. You know, everybody has a dream or something they're trying to accomplish or a goal that feels a little bit out of reach and it's easy to make excuses or to construct reasons why it's not rational or reasonable

or possible. So help me to better understand like the mechanics of your goal setting process, the mantras, the manifestations, like what does that look like in terms of, you know, how you're going about your day? Well, the mantras loving kind and helpful. And if we're loving kind and helpful all day long, I mean, you're going to feel great because everybody around is going to be feel

great and everything's going to unfold as it should. I've been up, you know, I like to get up really early and do my little meditation and, and, and when we're really on point, like in the first, I'd say, five years, maybe even longer, we would wake up together every morning. We would do our little meditation. And we'd write down what we want to work on personal

growth and what we want to work on career. And then we would actually manifest. Yeah, together a specific answer to those respective questions. Yeah, right. The actual conversation, the actual outcome, see yourself where you where that goal leads you. Mm hmm. Live in that reality, feel it, right, to your bones, because you can't experience it. If you're not visualizing it, then how is it going to

be possible, right? That's the idea. And don't be too rigid, the attach to the end game, let it more if it wants to let it go this way or that way. Don't be too rigidly attached to the outcome. So this is a daily practice. You do this in the morning at night. Morning, we were doing the morning just morning to it and I did it sometimes.

We were really wanting to create a web. What's morning and night morning and night or morning and so twice a day. We haven't done it since we had the kids. That's eight years now. Right. I invited Nicole to sit in on this. I'm thinking that's the better thing to do. I can go get her over here and she didn't want to do it. No, she is

the best. You want to come in for this part? Yeah, come on in. Bring to me. As long as a baby is okay. Come on. That baby's a dream. Sit there. Shut up the extra mic really quick. I knew we needed to have Nicole on, right? I'm so glad you're joining us. Thank you for having me. The dinner is sweet. So I think this is like,

this is the juice. This is the best part of the podcast. I want to get deep on the mindset, techniques and the manifesting and the dream weaving, all the mystical energy that gets injected into, you know, what's, what's required to like, chase an audacious goal, especially when it feels like the world is lined up against you. It's true. It's a good stuff. Magic. And it is

a little bit of magic. I think you have to have that belief that, and you have to believe that anything is possible. You know, and today's, today's world, it's almost like they don't want us to accomplish our dreams. You know, they fill our days with distractions and, and I'm also maybe a disbelief in that you have to be a certain way to be successful. And that's

just not true. And that's the beauty about human design, which we've mentioned a couple of times, is that, you know, human design is all about deconditioning yourself back to your authentic being. So that you can really your energetic aura can be inviting the universe to send you what you are really meant to have. And you can be fully expressed in what you're naturally inclined to do.

Right. You don't have to wake up at 5 a.m. If that's not what you're meant to do to be successful, you can still be successful without being exhausted. Wait, right? You don't wake up at 5 a.m.? Well, you're a generator. You're meant to. Right. That's the thing. All these like, here's the morning routine. Right. Right. Successful. Well, like, first, understand thyself. Like, how are you wired?

Not everybody is wired the same. Like, exactly. It's super important. My family is, is, is all generators except our youngest is a, I can't remember whether he's a projector or a reflector, but in either case, it's a totally different energy. Totally different. This is somebody who needs a lot of alone time can go out in the world, but then has to go decompress. It's really important.

And, you know, has to be invited into things and as opposed to going out and chasing things. And it's just a different wiring. And like, understanding that allows us as parents to figure out a better means to support that type of energetic system. It really changes the parenting game. Yeah. Absolutely. And another thing is also, I think, it's super important who you surround yourself with. When

you have these dreams and these goals, you know, your, your team and your team is everyone you surround yourself with. It's not just your team. It's, you know, your friends. It's your family. It's anyone you choose to surround yourself with, you know, they're, they're part of your journey. And, you have to be with people who really believe in you. And when you have these goals with

these road map, and I, or what, what do we call it, road map or a blueprint, a blueprint. It's really important to understand that every second of every day that you spend not on what's on that map, it will take you further away from your goal. Right. It's knowing that every word we speak as a choice, everything we consume in our, on our phones, on the

TV, on our computers, and our body, our food is bringing us closer. Right. Or farther away. There is nothing static. Right. Everything is in flux. So every decision that you make, every interaction that you have, every thought that you entertain, every word that comes out of your mouth is moving you towards the thing that you aspire to achieve or be or away from that. And when

you can root yourself in the moment, and really appreciate that, it really helps drive a better decision tree and helps you to say no to the things that aren't serving you, et cetera. But you have to overcome all your kind of default programming. For sure, there's a lot of work to be done. You know, like all this other noise that gets in the way. Right. And

we like to say that we are by no means the best that that, but we're always working on it. And we're always working to better ourselves in our lives and in our team and in the world. But going back to real tools that you can do. It's, you know, so here you are wanting every choice you make throughout the day to be bringing you closer to

these goals you have. So what really helps is, you know, you're making this blueprint. Up here's my goal. This is what I need to do. And as Garrett said, you know, he put it everywhere. So if you walk into our bathroom on the mirror, expo marker, you know, you have your mantras written, you have your goal written, you get in your car, have a little sticky

note, like a great way to do it is take your blueprint, take a picture of it, and make it your, your home screen on your phone, which you look at a million times exactly. So it, the more you see it, the more you're feeling it, and plus the easier it'll be to make the decisions that are getting you closer. Yeah. So Garrett, I know that you've

said that you're not an adrenaline junkie. But clearly you have a certain kind of unique relationship with risk and adventure. And I know Nicole has said that like the the riskiest thing you've ever done is get involved with this guy character, right? Like your relationship with risk is different. Maybe on a relationship level, like you have a high risk, you know, sort of no tolerance because

you, well, you got involved with him. So you know, you're gone on some crazy adventure. You didn't meet her father. Well, I saw it. Well, I saw him. Like that guy looks like a character. He is a character. That's the only way to describe him as a character. But I really, you had the most beautiful description of our relationship that I've ever heard is that, you

know, the alchemy of it. And, you know, I, I always say, you know, that we were brought together for a reason. Like it's really clear that we're together because we can do great, you know, help the world a little bit. And when we started the documentary, you know, I told them I was like, look, we'll do this. But there is no way that I'm making a

surf movie. Like if you guys have any desire to make a movie, you know, I'm going to do a surf movie. I'm going to make a surf movie where out of here, the only way I'm doing this and us putting our time in it is it's inspiring. Like I want people to walk away knowing that it truly is. It's like never too early and never too

late to follow your dreams. And on top of that, when people say, you can't do it, like the doctor said, you're probably never going to surf again. Your arms never going to work again. Like that's a big thing to mentally overcome. And, you know, people are going to face adversity every day of people who don't think they can do it. Because people don't want them to

do it because then that means they're going to have to go do it. You know, it's like comfort puts you right in your face. Like if you if this guy. So when you surf the 78 footer, that was 2011. Right. We're the same age. I think we're the same age. So that makes you a 44 43. Okay. Right. So I love that. Like that's that's that

same year is kind of when I was hitting my peak as an athlete and doing things. I didn't think was possible. And that's a story that's inspiring to other people. But what people don't get or realize or appreciate is in the lead up to that when you're doing the reps and the work to get to that point. Not a lot of support. Like a lot of

people are because it's challenge. Like, oh, if you're doing that, that that means that maybe I should be deconstructing how I'm living. And that's scary for a lot of people. Understandable reasons. Right. So you can't expect that kind of support, which means you're nucleus like the people that you surround yourself with. Are super important. And this bond that you guys have is really the key to,

you know, everything. It is like the the nuclear power generator for all of what is transpired. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. And so I am interested in like when when did the the documentary. Like when did these guys approach? I mean, Chris Smith is not going to make a surf documentary. Like he's a super experiment. He's going to he's going to tell really interesting nuance. I go.

Okay. Yeah. He's like, yeah, it's like this guy knows what he's doing. He's not like a surf documentary. Yeah. He wants to tell a story. She doesn't like to take credit for us going to Nazare because she answered the email and got us there. Even though we wouldn't have went if she didn't get on the email chain. But this documenting 100% would never have happened without

her. And because she's a projector, she's very organized. And she's very wrote a little treatment that was just super inspiring. Everything's possible. And well, it was really, it was really going to focus on Garrett, Coddy and CJ because CJ broke his back. Coddy broke his back. He is your brother. And Garrett's shoulder injury. So it was really about how the human spirit is limitless. And we're

all limitless and inspirational one hour documentary. And I was. Yeah. I was going to do it. We were going to do it ourselves, you know, like gorilla. And my cousin is married to Joe Lewis, the producer. So I had called just for advice. And he's like, oh, this is really good. And you know, it just worked out that he's like, oh, you know, I'll do it

if you want. So I knew in that agreement that I was pretty much giving away creative direction. So he came on board as the producer. And the first thing he did was get Chris Smith. But it's really funny when talking to Chris. You ask Chris, he'll be like, yeah, when Joe said, surface, like no way, I have no interest, but I'll, but I'll talk to Garrett.

For Joe. Yeah. So we had this zoom call. And Chris says the only reason I did is because Garrett's just so interesting. A Joe did it because he said this is going to win an Oscar. But then one and a half hour version. Yeah. So what was the decision to make it a series as opposed to. Well, I guess. They somehow got missed that we had

archival footage from a lot of time ago. So we sent him just literally a suitcase full of hard drives full. And when they, when they saw how much they had, they, they're like, this has to be a doc. You see, right? Yeah. And the call was crushed. She was like, my Oscar. But you'll say, don't wait. We'll get an Emmy. I'm like, all right. And then,

and now we have season two, which you must have already been sharing. Yes. So it's really hard. Yes. It's hard to believe. But season two is better than season one. When is that going to premiere? Oh, probably January, January. I was coming up quick. Wow. So I mean, congrats. That's, thank you. Thank you. Nicole, when you, I'm sure you've gotten asked this before. But, you know,

when, when Chris is like, Garrett is so interesting, like, what is that quality in Garrett that makes them different or capable of surfing these big waves? Like, how do you think about that? Like, what is his secret sauce in, in that recipe of uniqueness? Well, it's interesting. And I'm going to take it back to human. You know, it's funny. That interesting word. I use that instead

of saying. It's not a major. Instead of things. Plus so interesting. Instead of saying something negative a lot. For you. For people who want to be able to see something, I'm sure you've got a lot of questions. People that are just listening and not watching on YouTube, like he's making Google. Right. Right. Right. I mean, you're very animated and like, you're your own character. You know,

like, you're a cartoon character of your soul. Yeah. Right. I'm not saying that. But you're the way I got like in a very, you know, endearing way. So. And there's an earnestness to you. You know, you're charismatic. It's there's a, there's a key. But it's not performative charisma. It's who we really is. Exactly. Yeah. And that's why I take it back to human design. So generators

are meant to have these just super open or as that just attract everything to them, because they're just so glowing and fun and light and and genuine. And what happens is we become conditioned our whole life to shut that down. And as much as I will say that Garrett's childhood was completely disturbing. He didn't really get conditioned, you know, his authentic like cares. Yeah. Yeah. Open

or a beginner's mind. Yeah. And innocence. Yeah. Yeah. There's an innocence to him that makes him just, you know, he's a lover. Yeah. He has just a super loving heart at the end of the day. He's really a gentle, gentle person. How does that translate? How does it come to the parenting? Oh, let's make a couple. That's a whole other. Well, it's funny. When you try

to parent, I'm like, where you, like, do you have scientific? You have, you have no. Right. Exactly. That's what I say is an example. Exactly. So I'm, like, so how do you know that this is working? Have you read a book if you've read a book and you have some research to back in? I have something to be said for that. There is day and age.

Like, and I'm sure there's a lot of that in your, very lucky that they're very open to letting the kids experience things. Yeah. Are you capable of disciplining your kids? I mean, definitely not physically. I would probably grab there here and pull them. Can you set a boundary here? Do you know how to set a boundary? Like with your kids? It's set time. It depends on

what you don't have. You never have. Yeah. It's like, so he goes, I don't know. He always says what he has. The kids. He's like, I don't know. It was so easy. I'm like, yeah, because you let him do whatever they wanted to do and gave him whatever they wanted. But you as a, as a professional athlete who's done things and nobody else has done, there

is a certain. You have a capacity for discipline and rigor in your life. Like you weren't taught that. That wasn't part of your rearing, right? But you've learned that for yourself. And you've kind of shoulder the responsibility of creating that structure so that you could accomplish these goals. And I'm sure, I'm sure Nicole is helpful in that regard. But like, it's like an unlikely story that

you would become somebody who could, you know, parent some children. Well, parent yourself. Like you had to parent yourself. Right. So you had to learn these things outside of the household. But I'm interested in like, you know, the discipline, the rigor, the accountability piece, all of that, you know, as a professional athlete. Like how did you figure that out? I don't know. I was always into

health, eating healthy, whether I did it all the time or not. I was aware from a, from young. Yeah, because we've been vegetarians. And I, you know, we grew so many different vegetables and fruit trees. So they used to call me Luther Burbank of world renowned botanist. You might have heard. But just because we're not going to be able to do that. Maybe from lack wanting

to achieve figuring out how to actually achieve, how to succeed. And then just, I don't know how I actually, that was a business plan for dummies was definitely the catalyst for the end for what where I am now. And after 35 right in the in the in the context of being an athlete, being a high performance athlete. Like what is the training look like? Like how

do you prepare mentally? Emotionally, physically, spiritually to drop in on a wave of that gravitas? I love training. And I love working out with a group of people. But I also like working out with just by myself with a trainer. And back in the day, I would, I had my gym. So I would do my weights. And I would ride my bike up Pupacay Hill. And

then I would go to the track at the sunset beach and run this quarter mile track where there was benches every on one leg of it. And I would do hope. And I would do my breath exercises there. And that was enough. I credit my all my all the experience I've had under water were enjoyable because I did my hold my breath exercises. Today there's so

much more. There's so many different. There's so much breath work. You know, ice man, we go, whim Hof. We got all these free diver. I mean, there's so many different tools now that we can access through social media through friends. The breath work thing was really interesting. You brought in a free diver to teach you guys, you know, how to do static breath holds. And Nicole,

you got to like three and a half minutes or something like that. Like doing that. But like that was so cool that you're like, let's. We need to learn this. Yeah. We're going to be on these waves. Like this is going to be a key thing to understand. And then the. There's so many good trainers. I was just in Austin, Texas training with all these trainers.

I love to have a personal trainer. Hawaii Sherry Gunn away, who's a god send. She is just. So hands on and she actually does the body work, which is the best in the world that I've ever experienced. And I've had it all treatments all over the world. And she's also like a psychic and I mean, just yeah. Yeah. And you know, I've trained with Kyborg, a

functional fitness gym and then down your Bachman up at sunset. And then Portugal, there's a gym right in Nazar. There's two or three gyms in Nazare. But that's more I work do that on my own. I like working with the crew. Right. I like working with somebody or a few people and talk to me about the yoga piece. So this forest yoga is like a big.

Have you ever have you ever. No, no, no. She's never want to do yoga. Forest yoga is by far the best we've ever experienced. And we've. Well, I love it because it's really, you know, yoga now nowadays. What does it actually mean? Right. And today it's just, you know, I don't think it is what it is today is not what it's meant to be. And that's

why I really love forest yoga. Because it kind of takes it back to what it should be. Well, I shouldn't even say should, but what it, you know, what it is. And I love the ceremony part aspect of it too, which they didn't show much of that in the series. But, you know, every, every class starts out with a ceremony. Like this deep ceremony of gratitude

and the land. And our ancestors and. And then it's also about really how you were saying the guy you had on your podcast last week. It's, you know, we hold our trauma in our body. And it's using the postures to move that trauma out of the body. And that's why I thought it would be really great for Garrett, you know, not only from his childhood traumas,

but also physical traumas and the scar tissue and for all three of them. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Yoga's yoga. I hate saying yoga, but yeah. You know, it's, it's super important. For your mental and physical. Right. Yeah. And your, your spiritual girl. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. You know, so forest yoga. It's not forest like trees. It's anaphyrus. What was the name of the book that she

was. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Good job. She's just. Mm hmm. She's fierce. Oh, powerful. Um, she's a wizard. Yeah. Beyond that. Like, so, all right. So you have the weights and you have the breath holds and you have the breathing techniques, the cold bass, like all that kind of stuff. Like what else is part of, like I feel like. Because big waves surfing is still pretty

new, right? Like figuring out, like how do you prepare for something like this? Like what is the best methodology to get you, right? Like you have to be physically sound and strong, of course. And there's techniques for accomplishing that. But like how do you. So, you know, mentally and emotionally get your head in the right place to tackle, you know, that kind of fear inducing, you

know. For me, being physically prepared. Strength and stamina. Breath. Then I mentally, I haven't been back to where I was before I got hurt physically. So I'm still stuck challenged with the mental a little bit. Always wondering if I'm actually going to enjoy it still. As I always enjoyed it. Didn't know what was going on. And now I'm kind of feeling, and I can you get

back. Yeah. And the breath work is so important. Leading up, you know, for two weeks, minimum, a month or two, better. And then on your way out. And while engaging breath work, like on your way out, you breathe up. So you're hyper oxygenated. Then you're sitting there, waiting for a while. Okay, keep doing your breathing. You're getting ready to take that way. Make sure you were

high. You know, oxygenate. And so when you actually, if you don't make the wave, the beat down will be enjoyable. If you're not ready, it'll be super stressful. And you could end up passing out. But then your body has to be able to hold together. But. The breath work, I think, is the most important. No spoiler alerts. But season two, you know, CJ has a situation

where he says like if it wasn't for all my breath work, you probably. You're a part of it. We would have found him. Okay. But yeah, it's I think because along with the breath work, depending which kind of you practice, you know, a lot of the breath work practices these days, also, you know, touch on the spiritual and the emotional part. And, you know, you can

go to places through breath work that, you know, you can reach some traumas and heal. You can heal through breath work. You can have a medicine experience from the, what is it? The whole of trauma. I've gone. Yeah. Like who needs, who needs medicine right here? Breath. My wife takes groups of people through those experiences. And then we all get together and share. And it's crazy.

What happens to people? Yeah. They have insane emotional breakthroughs. They go to different places and are like, it's just the breath, inhabiting the bodies of animals and like, it's like, yes, wilder than any kind of psychedelic experience. It's very, very powerful. And I think we're just at the beginning. And I think we're just at the beginning of truly learning and understanding the power of breath and

how to harness it for all manner of things, beyond just for respiration. You know, it's super interesting. In the, in the kind of context of your story, I mean, it's super inspiring. To see somebody blossom and really find their, their, their power. Like later in life, you know, I feel like so many people feel like the story of their life is written at 25. This is

who I am. This is my career. This is where I live. These are my people. And this is just going to be my thing, right? And, you know, I've experienced a, a later in life kind of transition or, you know, kind of different kind of trajectory for my life. And I see kinship and what, in what you've done in a different way, you know, doing it

later in life. And so I think it would be instructive to share a little bit about, you know, what that has been like. Like you could have stayed running that store. You could have stayed doing what you were. Always doing and kind of succumbing to the, the pressures of just this is what life is supposed to be like as an adult. And, you know, it takes

a lot of courage to break free of that and to take a risk and try something different, especially when you're in your late 30s or 40s. And you, you know, kind of doing what you're doing now into your 50s, like with no end in sight. I think it helps really, it helps people raise the ceiling on their perception. And I'm kind of what's possible for themselves,

definitely. What was it? What was it? Yeah. What made you at 35 to side this, you know, I know this isn't what I want for my life. So I'm going to go for it instead of because most people would just, I know I don't like this. But this is what I'm supposed to do. I just wanted to keep surfing. Yeah. But I think what it is.

Nicole goes to something you said earlier, which is, is because Garrett had this unique childhood experience where he wasn't conditioned in the way most of us were. Yeah. He's been able to maintain a connection with his childlike sensibilities and what, what gives and gave him joy. Right. Like you've talked about, like if you're struggling to figure out what that is, like go back to when you

were three years old, right. But we have so much conditioning and programming to prevent us from looking in the rear view in that way and connecting. Deeply emotionally with those very pure kind of primal impulses that we had as young people, right. But I feel like you've, you, what's unique about you is like that connective tissue was never ruptured. I feel like in this world, we're

conditioned to settle and to just do what we're supposed to do. And somehow through my childhood and all of my life, I was not doing what you're saying. I was really not doing what you're supposed to be. Besides that one point in time when I had the store and it just didn't feel right. And I mean, just like in my marriage, I didn't want it. You

know, I settled. And at the end of the day, I moved on. And I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't. Yeah. I really work on not having any regrets. Whether you felt it was a bad decision or not, I work on not having any regrets. And through that journey, I really wanted to have released any regrets that I may have had or any,

oh, yeah, I don't know. So for somebody who's maybe grappling with their own discontentment, what is the recommendation or the advice that you could give to that person to help them kind of connect with something deeper that might help them reckon with it? That's easy. Figure out what you love doing. Figure out what you're doing. That's hard. That's hard. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's what I said,

go back to when you were three. Yeah. Or the, I think the medicine, the beauty way, the medicine wheel really helped you the book. I mean, the book is great because it, it they. This is. No, no, this is the medicine wheel. I don't know. It's amazing. Yeah, but it's great because it's really simplified it so that people can do the exercises in their living room

if they want. They don't have to go into the forest for four days with no food and water. I mean, they could. It's helpful. But the book is set it up to really, you know, kind of look at the things that are causing the pain and holding you back and how to work through it. Right. Well, figure out what you think you like doing or better

to love doing it. And then I'm figure out how to make that your life and what the goal is. Okay. I love doing this. How do I make that a career? And then I'm going to do that. You make the roadmap, you make the blueprint and you follow it and you'll be doing it. And now they said, don't stay rigidly attached. If it morphs to another

direction, go check that out. If you achieve it and you're really here and you're like, oh, this isn't what I thought it was going to be. Then go, go at it again. Yeah, I think that idea of holding it loosely is important because if you are too rigid, then you're, you're short circuiting your ability to be available for the miracle. Yeah. Because the miracle doesn't show

up in a pre-packaged way on time as predicted. It doesn't work that way, right? It's a meandering path. And you kind of have to have that North Star that's driving you, but also be kind of available and open to the turns in the road along the way. Because sometimes when those are, those are the messages that actually like lead you towards the greater opportunity that didn't

even occur to you. Yeah. Yeah. The one path leads you to the path that you're going to be able to do. It leads to a totally new path you never thought even existed. Yeah. She's getting antsy. Don't worry. We're going to wrap it up here. I mean, maybe that... I do think, I know you asked him about fear. I do think he was some key. Yeah,

well, that's... There is fear is something that we choose, something we manufacture in our mind. And it's when we're thinking about the past or thinking about the future. And those two things do not exist. So if we fully embrace the moment and just think about where we are in that moment and do our best in that moment, fear does not exist. It can't live in the

present moment. It doesn't. Yeah, that's powerful. We had a great guy, Kent. You know, he taught us PCP, just BPCP. And you know, that's what he does out of water. Present. Present. And so when you're fully present, then you're connected to source, to spirit. And then you're going to be protected. So present, connected, protected. PCP, baby. Not what you're thinking. Different kind of... Yeah. The other

PCP... Can't thank you. Maybe not so present or connected. Definitely not protected. No. All right. Well, what's on the... What are on all the sticky notes now? Like what's on the... The screen saver on the iPhone. Like what is the dream? The goal. We have a picture over here. I don't know. It's on the fridge. The latest one. It's been morphing lately. We're... Be conscious parents.

No. Contrist parenting. Definitely at the top. There's a few projects in the pipeline. You don't... You might remember some of it. That's important. What are the goals right now that... Love your wife. There you go. You just sticky note for that. Come on. I just tell her like if you just love me, then I'll do everything else. Because I'll be so watered and blossoming and I'll

just want to do everything. So... Yeah. Cool. All right. And you guys... You guys... Are you... So you split your time between Hawaii and Nazarena, right? Like you have a home there and you live in Portugal half the year. Yeah. Yeah. We love Portugal. We love Hawaii. We love LA. We have really good quality friends here. And we're really... You know, like you're saying, it's all

about who you surround yourself with. And the funny one is... Do you want to hang out on the ground and with the chickens and eat worms? Or you want to soar with the eagles? So we've been really focusing on quality friends. And another one for lack of a better... What are your expanders? People that you look up to or aspire to be like or really inspire

you. And they don't have to be wealthy or anything. Just inspirational people that have goodness. Nothing about wealth. Yeah. That's good place. Health is wealth. Number one is health above all. There you go, buddy. Cool. Well, I feel like we just touched the surface on what I could talk to you guys about. But I think we can wrap it up for today. That was amazing. Thank

you. Thank you. I'm really inspired by the journey that the two of you guys are on. And I can't wait to see season two, man. It's exciting. You guys are Emmy award winners now. It's crazy. You got season two coming up in January. And I want to see all your goals manifest my friends. So consider me a resource if there's anything I can do to help

either of you. Thank you. And you, I'll say as well for you, whenever you come to Hawaii or Portugal, let us know. Cool. So obviously, everybody should check out 100 foot wave on HBO HBO Max. Where else should people go to learn more about you guys? Your Mac Instagram Mac, Numera underscore ass. And that's for our family. And then we've got and yours is like Mama.

Yeah, Mama unearthed. Right. That's good. Like the philosopher. Yeah. No stone unturned. Right. Um, no, nothing your essence. Yeah. On earth. You're asking. 100% under her. All right. Right. Um, cool. Come back and share with me again sometime. Peace. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation to learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today. Visit the

episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as podcast merch. My books, finding ultra voicing change and the plant power way as well as the plant power meal. And then we'll talk about the planter at meals.ritroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts

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on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camillo with additional audio engineering by kale Curtis. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis with assistance by our creative director Dan Drake portraits by David Greenberg, graphic and social media assets courtesy of Daniel Lease, Dan Drake and AJ Akpoteata. Thank you Georgia Waley for copywriting and website

management. And of course our theme music was created by Tyler Piot, Trapper Piot and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace, plants. Namaste.