Trans panic in kids' sports w/Prof. Travers | Edge of Sports

Dave Zirin: Now's the part of the show that we call Class Matters, where we talk to a sports scholar about their area of research. Our first sports scholar is Travers, a professor at Simon Fraser University and a sports trailblazer in their own right. We will talk about that. Travers, how are you? Professor Travers: I'm great, Dave. Great to see you. Dave Zirin: I'm so thrilled that

you're on the show. First and foremost, what sport and what angle on that sport is your primary area of sports scholarship? Professor Travers: I have to say it's baseball because I'm obsessed with baseball, but I write, generally, about sports and social justice with special emphasis on gender and race. Dave Zirin: Now, you've also become somewhat of an expert on an issue that's been roiling the US,

which is the issue of whether trans kids will have access to sports. You've been called upon to be an expert on this issue in many spheres, and your voice is so welcome, given the level of attacks. What do you have to say about the hundreds of bans? I think it's almost 500 now in legislative state Houses that have been put forward aimed at trans kids to

stop them from playing sports with an emphasis, of course, on trans girls and young women. Professor Travers: It's horrifying. It shows the extent to which the Christian right is willing to go to consolidate a power base. But I try to be a little bit optimistic, which is difficult in this context, in that if trans social movements and our supporters had not been so successful in creating

more space for trans people of all ages, this would not be happening. There's a concerted effort by right-wing organizations to push us back out of public space, and sports is one of the areas they seem to be having the most success. Dave Zirin: And what do you say to people who are generally on the side of angels when it comes to issues about social justice? I'm

sure you've met people like this. They even say they support trans rights, but when it comes to sports, they say, now, now, now, I don't know. It's important we keep things the way they are and not make space for trans kids. What do you say to them? Because I'm sure you've come across that type of person in your time. Professor Travers: I have. And ignorance about

the history of sports and the way in which sports normalize gender inequality needs to be attended to. The idea that there are only two sexes and that there is a neat dividing line between those sexes, that's an ideology rather than a scientific fact. Sports is one of the key cultural arenas that normalizes the idea that men and women and boys and girls are fundamentally different and

that men are superior at sports. When people raise issues around trans participation, particularly the participation of trans girls and women, people don't have the information or the viewpoint to understand these issues from a critical context, which is why education is so important. Dave Zirin: Now, I mentioned at the start that you are a sports trailblazer. So you're not just somebody who teaches about these issues. You're

out there in the mix. I'm hoping you could speak about what trail you have blazed in the world of sports. Since it's baseball, a sport that you love, in a lot of ways for me as an observer, it makes it all the sweeter that you've found a place there. How are you a sports trailblazer? Professor Travers: Well, I've been coaching baseball since my daughter was in

Little League. She's now 18. I coached my son from age 9 all the way up to 12, but last year, I was made head coach of an 18U AAA baseball team, and I am sure that I am the first non-man to head coach at that level in Canada, if not the US. I have yet to hear of somebody who has been head coach at that level.

So as you can imagine, it's challenging to be the first, but I love baseball so much, and to be able to coach a team with players who can play well, it's very exciting. Dave Zirin: What is the greatest challenge in doing this work as a non-man? Professor Travers: Well, if I were to show up white, bearded, with a beer gut, everybody would assume that I knew

what I was doing, whereas I have to show that I do. So there's an incredible pressure to prove my competence rather than prove my incompetence, which is typically what men have the opportunity to do. They're assumed to be competent until proven otherwise, whereas I make a mistake and it's like, whoa. The thing is, I am going to make mistakes. We all make mistakes because we're learning,

and if we're in our best environment, we're at the edge of our abilities. So if I make a mistake, I feel like the consequences are so heavy, whereas my male assistant coach, he doesn't have to. It's a real challenge because I'm carrying so much pressure, and yet you want to be relaxed and you want to be present with players. So those two things sometimes go against

each other, but this is my second year. I learned so much in the first year, but at times, I do come home and I shake my head and I think, why am I doing this? It's so hard. But the pull for me with baseball and with coaching is so strong and I love it so much that I do keep going. Dave Zirin: Absolutely. It's love that's

at the root of your burden. What do you love about baseball? Professor Travers: I love the strategy. I love the base running game. I love a good defense. I've got a $10 bill in the clipboard of my team's lineup that goes to the next person who lays out and makes a play. We got it up to $30 last weekend because after every series of games, another

$10 goes on it and it was cool to see a player who He's a really good player, but he wasn't being aggressive enough in the outfield so we've been working with him on that He laid out. He made the play. It was an incredible play, really instrumental in winning that game, and I handed the money over. Those moments are fantastic. Or having a pitcher who's been

having trouble attacking the zone, sending him in and watching him do it and standing next to my assistant coach going, I want this so much for him. And then seeing him do it and the look on his face when he came off the field, it's hard not to love. Dave Zirin: Wow. Now, I want to finish up by asking you a question that I gave you

no prep for. In advance, I do apologize. I wanted to know if you could recommend one book, at this intersection of sports and scholarship, that you think people should read? Before you answer This is me vamping a little bit to give you a second to think about it Hearing you talk makes me think about a book that's near and dear to my heart called Stolen Bases:

Why American Girls Don't Play Baseball which is an incredible book about the socialization of softball and the original players of baseball who numbered women among them, and there was this tradition that got hijacked. I recommend that book by Jennifer Ring, Stolen Bases: Why American Girls Don't Play Baseball. The ball is in your court, which I think is a mixed sports metaphor, Travers. What is your book

of choice? Professor Travers: Well, I might have mentioned Stolen Bases because that is an outstanding Dave Zirin: Oh, I did that to help. Professor Travers: As somebody who teaches sports and society courses, I would recommend Tony Collins' 2013 book, [Sport in Capitalist Society: A Short History]. I believe that's the title. You can get it as a free PDF, which I also love. But what it does

is it situates the emergence of modern sports with the emergence of capitalism, and makes the argument that you don't have one without the other, the way they develop synergistically. Certainly, some of the material is out-of-date because it was published in 2013, but the historical emergence of modern sports and the relationship between gambling, et cetera, and why sports developed the way it did, it's really helpful for

us to understand sports in its current context. And I love that you can get it as a PDF. So, Tony Collins, [Sport in Capitalist Society: A Short History] I believe, or something like that. That's a good one. Dave Zirin: For Google purposes, is that T-O-N-I or T-O-N-Y? Professor Travers: T-O-N-Y. Dave Zirin: Okay, gotcha. Wow. As we said earlier in the program, pro sports, it's bigger than

US Steel. We better have an analysis of it that takes in questions of capitalism or we're not there. Professor Travers: Exactly. Dave Zirin: Wow. Travers, Professor Travers, thank you so much for joining us here on The Edge of Sports. Professor Travers: It's my pleasure, Dave. Dave Zirin: Thank you so much, Travers