SBR Vault - Conversations with Erik Spoelstra, Pet

Sports Business Radio launched in 2004. Brian Berger has interviewed the biggest names in sports and business. Let's step into the Sports Business Radio Vault and look back on some of our favorite conversations. This week we look back on some of our favorite conversations with head coaches. Eric Spulstra, Pete Carroll and Eric Musselman. Now, enter the Sports Business Radio Vault. Now, here's Brian's interview with Eric Spulstra

from October 2018. My guest is Eric Spulstra. He is the head coach of the Miami Heat. A long time friend as well. Eric, we're here at Heat Headquarters. Thank you for having us. Yeah, Brian, this is fun. We've been through a lot. We've been to the Philippines, but it's good to get on a couple of mics together and chop it up. So you recently became a

new dad. Congratulations. How has fatherhood changed your perspective? You know, I get that question all the time. I know what everybody's searching for because I think people have set up a workaholic and all that. You know, so much of that is exaggerated. But the thing about obviously being a parent that all parents know regardless of what you're doing, your life will adjust whether you want it

to or not, whether you need balance or don't need balance, you're going to find it. And it's going to force it way in, which has been such an awesome blessing for my wife and I were thrilled to have had our first son and it's been a great summer. You know, we're eliminated in the playoffs. It felt like months ago. And he was only three weeks old.

So just how much he's changed from when the season ended to now. We had a team barbecue and I brought him around and the players were couldn't believe how big he was. And it's just he. He's been such a blessing and I'm thrilled about it. I'm sure he's not being spoiled by grandparents and and anti right. Yeah, grandparents are coming to town this weekend. I've got

to catch a couple games. Yeah, I asked him. My parents live in the same house. I grew up in this tough to get them to leave Portland. Really? So I can think still go to Maui. Still go to Hawaii. We do that every year. But the last few years getting them to come to Miami. You know, connecting. Yeah. It's not easy. Right. So they already have

two trips booked already this year. This trip to see a couple of games. Really, not going to see the games obviously, but also over the holidays. So it'll be pretty cool. Well, congratulations again. That's great. What about when you're on the road? I know that you've gotten better at you do yoga and you're doing some things to keep yourself fit. You're very fit. But this is

a high stress job. So how do you deal with? And a lot of people listening to this are CEOs and people who have high stress jobs. How do you deal with the stress? Well, I've made a lot of mistakes along the way. So I think that's been the best teacher for me. You know, I think probably especially early on my first few years. I was such

a fear based coach. And I've really been mindful of trying to change that approach and to more of gratitude and of service and how I can help this organization. How I can help this team. How I can help players. How I can help my bosses. You know, they hired me to do a job and to focus on all of the positive opportunities that I have with

this. So part of that is getting to a place where I can be healthy in the mind. And that's probably a challenge for a lot of head coaches out there. You get so consumed. It's very easy to get to dark places. I've had problems with that over my career. So for me, it's helped staying disciplined to a physical fitness routine. Working on my not only my

physical well-being, but my mental and emotional well-being. And a little bit of meditation is helped with that. My nutrition is helped with that. Either or not. And yoga. There's a natural thing because it incorporates both. So without me even knowing it, I was doing it a lot of times just for the physical part of it. And I felt good after it. But the emotional benefits that

I found after that, once I've started learning the science, were really, really cool to experience. And having a sister that, you know, was a nutritionist. Yeah. She stays on me about that as well. And I have a better relationship with, uh, with wine now. I used to be more of a self-medication type thing after losses. But now I can actually enjoy, you know, a glass or

two, uh, instead of it being such a dark thing. And you're from Oregon, where they have great wines. You could probably just have some nice bottles shipped out. Pretty easy to get gifts to the spulster family. My wife and I for the holidays. But my family, that's pretty much a go to. They send a good wine from out there. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, I'm going to

be a good guy. I have a coaching tree now. David Fisdale, our mutual friend, is now the coach of New York Knicks. He was coaching in Memphis before. Uh, what does it feel like to have your own coaching tree and see someone who learned under you, like you learned under Pat Riley? Yeah, I still look at it as, uh, as the Miami Heat tree. Um, because

we, we both have benefited so much from just this organization, the culture. Uh, but it is surreal. Uh, just both of us having an opportunity to be with you. I mean, I think one of the 30 head coaches in this league, neither one of us take it for granted. I know. Cause Fisdale and I talk about that. We're both, uh, WCC, not even great WCC players.

I mean, it's not like we were burning it up at the college level. Um, but, uh, to be able to have an opportunity to work your way up, learn from some of the best people in the business here, uh, particularly Coach Riley. Uh, and then, uh, and now Fis is, uh, one of the, you know, he's one of my, uh, dear friends, uh, and we both

worked in the video room together, but it's crazy when he called me and said, Hey, uh, you know, there might have a couple of different opportunities. The Knicks are one. What do you think? The next, uh, like they haven't been good. And it's really hard to coach in New York. Uh, I just let him, you know, talk a little bit. And I said, because you listening

to what you're talking about. Come on. This is the New York Knicks. The, the historic franchises. Uh, who would you ever have thought at any day that you would be the head coach. You know, um, you know, for one of the storied franchises. Um, and such a great opportunity if you can turn it around. And just to have the experience of coaching in New York, what

a, what a great experience, uh, just to go through all of it is probably is going to be crazy. Uh, probably all the above. Uh, but to go through that in 35 years from now. What are you going to be doing? Talking about, right. It would be a pretty cool thing. So part of coaching obviously is coaching, but the other part is doing things like this,

dealing with the media. In New York, that's a big deal. Obviously, it's a big deal here for you, because you've won championships. I know way back when, you know, that was a part of the job that that we discussed. Yeah. Have you become more comfortable with that part of the job? Do you know that it's just like, Hey, something I got to do? And, and, and

probably just I have a, a healthier view and lens of, of what it is. And there's parts of it that I don't agree with. And I don't like. Uh, there's parts of it that are totally natural and fine. And particularly, uh, you know, today's day and age, it's information. And yes, the information gets spit out there quicker. Uh, but for fans, they, they love it. And,

uh, I think that's a big deal. And they like access and they want more information. They're consuming more and more. Uh, so, uh, I don't, uh, look at it nearly as negatively as I used to. Um, I wouldn't necessarily say I'm embracing all of it and loving it. You know, but I, I don't get turned off about as much. And, uh, I remember being, you know,

early on in my career stressed out about storylines and narratives that are out there. I think it probably helped going through that. Um, our first thing is, uh, first year of the pick three, uh, you know, it's getting booed all the time and articles were being written every, seem like every hour about how I needed to be fired. And finally, I just got to a place

where, you know, that didn't. Bob the man, I was able to just focus, see it for what it was. Um, and, and just focus and compartmentalize on, on my job and doing my job the best that I can, regardless of what the narratives are out there. Once you're in this swirl, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, all the time, uh, you just see how it's a quick news cycle. And your day is coming no matter what. Right. You know, at some point, yeah, you have a target on

your back. And if you can just, you don't get to a place where you can weather it, uh, it'll pass. And it'll be somebody else's day. And then in my position, can I help somebody else get through that day because our players go through that all the time. And we went through that with a song last year. And I was able to have a very candid

conversation with them and, and speak from experience. That it actually can help you grow. Uh, if you can get past the discomfort and, um, and, uh, and see the other side. And the more you, I mean, I, I look at you as someone who is cooperative with the media. And I think the more you cooperate, the more if you do have any kind of a misstep

or even if you're just losing games, they're gonna go a little easier on you because they go, hey, you know, here's a guy who's helped us do our job over the years. Yeah, I, look, everybody's got a tough job. In this business. And I, I try to be, uh, as accessible as reasonably can be, um, you know, I might not go totally out of my way.

And there are certain things that make me uncomfortable. And there's also, you know, a part of it because a new cycle goes so fast. There's an absurdity to it. Yeah. And if you can just step back and view it for what it is and not take offense to it. Uh, then yeah, I am trying to help. Guys out there trying to do their job. But I,

you know, if I can make their life a little bit easier, I'm not doing it with the intention that, okay, you're gonna ease up on me or say something nice about me. I just, just, uh, profession respect to another profession. Right. Um, that's, that's basically it. So you are now the windiness coach in heat franchise history, I think. And, you know, I know you have high

standards for yourself. Have you had a chance to reflect on what you've accomplished so far in the championships? You want, or is that something that? Till you're sitting on the beach and value and you're old and retired, you won't look back on? No, because that's not my why. That's not why I'm in this business. Um, and certainly not what, not what I'm trying to accomplish for

Mickey Ererson and Pat Riley. I take it very seriously. The responsibility and the opportunity that they've given. And me. And the fact of the matter is I had an opportunity to coach. I have some incredible talent. Uh, and in a lot of other places, if you're not working for the right people, I say it all the time. And Pat always gets mad at me. But it's,

he's like, you don't need to say that. But it's true. If I was in other organizations, I would have been fired. You know, three or four times. Um, and I'm not saying that for somebody to say, Oh, no, you know, I'm not fishing for any. No, that's the reality. That is this business. You know, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know,

I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm good. I know. You know, when you get a run at a sort of three, maybe four years, we're different. Our owner believes in continuity. And when he says family, you know, he means it. Uh,

uh, coach Riley believes in the same thing. He likes consistency. Right. And I, I've just happened to be working for the right organization. Uh, where it could have been a lot different. Some of the, the coaches that I've come into this business with, we are video coordinators at the time. They're already on their fourth or fifth team. That's the landscape. And that's why I'm very grateful

to work for the people that I work for and why I want to do such a good job, you know, for them. Uh, you know, it is a major responsibility that I take, uh, take very seriously. Do you ever look ahead or are you so focused on the now? Do you ever look ahead and say, well, here's life when I'm not coaching or I would love

a role in the front office someday. And I don't have to be on the road all the time. Do you ever think about that? Well, what Andy Ellesberg always says, uh, quotes to get the movie, the Godfather. This is the life we chose. Yes. I almost don't know any other life. Hmm. I know that it is very extreme when I explain it to the people on

the outside. But I don't know any other life other than traveling during the winter. Yeah. Yeah. We don't have four and five nights anymore. But being on the road for 41 games. Uh, and then there's nothing to complain about in the summer. Yeah. The summer's beat anybody else's certainly the other pro sports teams and whatever profession you're in our summers are the best. Uh, so I

don't really look ahead to that. I'd like to be in the business. Obviously as long as I can. I feel like I'm extremely young. Still it's funny. Uh, you mentioned that because my friend brought up to me. He's like, man, I remember when you were the youngest coach, but it's been a long time since I've been there. Quite a few guys that are, that are younger.

They're younger than me. You have the second longest tenure in the entire NBA. Pop. Yeah. I just think that's a horrible statement on, on this profession. Yeah. There's so many other coaches with the right, the right leadership. Uh, and the rights, the ability to be able to weather the, the things that are going to happen. Uh, there's going to be some tough patches every, every season.

Heck, two years. We were 11 and 30, you know, going into the second half of the season. Coaches get fired before you make it that far. And then we went 30 and 11 and the second half. Um, so it, you know, things, things can change. All coaches, including myself. We always think we're on borrowed time. Um, but, um, but it is a great situation that that

we have here and, um, we can keep it going. Hopefully we can do a little bit better than we have. You've dealt with the big three of the superstars, but you've also done a really good job of developing younger players. Very different experience. I would imagine with the superstars and the guys who are just trying to stay on the roster and, and develop. How do you

do it? That's what I love about this profession is every year. It's a different team. Maybe you bring back, say, 10, 12 guys. Right. It doesn't matter that the season is going to feel totally different. It'll play out, uh, differently. There'll be different challenges and things that come up. Um, but that's what I love about this profession and hopefully looking back on it, you know, when

I'm, you know, 30 years from now that I will have had. Um, you know, an incredible. Uh, resume of experiences. Uh, and not to put on a resume. Just to be able to experience different players, different dynamics, building different kinds of, uh, different kinds of teams, uh, developing them in different way. That's, that's why we get into this profession. And, um, it's exciting when it's different.

Um, and it's new. I get to start. I mean, I think a lot of people out there in their current job, whatever it is, if you're an accountant lawyer or a doctor, uh, that every year that they could almost start with a clean slate and a new set of challenges that keep you fresh. Um, I love it. I love the job. With different kinds of teams,

um, I know, I'm not why that way to think like, Oh, you, I just need a championship ready team. I look at that as a blessing. Um, that I even had an opportunity to coach a group like that. But arguably my, my favorite year coaching was two years ago, the team that I just mentioned. Yeah, um, what a, a group that created some magic, I have

nothing, and at the end of the year, we really created some, you know, if some of the things to be done, uh, you have no. Some deep relationships, uh, that was fun. That was something I wanted all the guys to build the experience. And I'm very grateful that I was able to experience it with the guys. Yeah, that team showed a lot of backbone. And I

know that has a lot to do with you. Do you still, uh, give the guys books to read? I know that's something that you used to do. Yeah, I do. Um, yeah, every year. It's funny. You remember that these guys have everything in their lives, uh, as well, they, they should be afforded. Uh, all these great things that we get from this profession. Um, so if

I, if I can give them a thought or something, um, with a book, uh, a lot of them, and I don't take offense to it. And even as I give it out, I, I tell them a lot of you probably won't read this book. But even if you just get something, one thing, uh, out of it, uh, it's something that you don't necessarily, you can't get

with a car. Right. Another car, you know, another, uh, uh, piece of clothing or, uh, whatever, it is, um, and then, you know, every once in a while, guys will mention when they get to other teams and three years later, somebody don't say, you know what, that, that book you gave me, I finally read it on a flight. And there's just one thing you mentioned, you

know, uh, that I would catch one thing out of the book and I did. And they, you know, well, well, tell me, what's the book for this year? I don't know yet. Uh, when do you give it out, being in the season, I should give it over the holidays, but even during the year, like if, if something, uh, yeah, I've given it the same book for

everyone. Or do you? Yeah. Different books to different. But if I'm giving an individual book, and I read something, and I just think it resonates with, with a particular player. Uh, you know, I'll do that. You know, Dwayne Wade final season. I know you guys have a special relationship. I think it's so cool that he gets to take a bow and really be recognized for what

he's meant to the game on and off the court. It's got to be pretty special for you. Yeah, it is. Because when he was in, uh, those other uniforms, uh, it just didn't look right. Right. Feel right. I tell Texan that all the time. I don't think that's, uh, tampering or anything, but we'd play them as like, dude, that just, it doesn't look right. Even in

a Chicago Bulls uniform. Come on, get out of here. Um, so we always stayed in touch, uh, but, uh, I never really let my mind go there to think whether you'd have an opportunity to coach him again or not. Um, and then it just happened very quickly. So I, I think it's, it's just the right timing. And, and it's what was meant to be. It should

end this way. He should be in a Miami Heat uniform. I don't care what he's ever done in another uniform. He looks and performs just, he comes alive in a different way in a Miami Heat uniform. Uh, and, and he can handle this. Uh, I don't know if, you know, I'll put it in the back. Players can handle it where you know when the end is

going to be. And then it becomes about all the things that it shouldn't be about. It's still about the right things with Dwayne. And it just speaks to his, his character. He's such a, uh, quality human being. Uh, and he's a given guy. That's why he's always going to be successful. It, whatever he decides to do after this. Uh, you know, he has all of his

businesses and his endorsements. Uh, but the reason all of it works is, yes, because he's a brilliant Hall of Fame basketball player. And he's a serving person. And, and in this scenario, you have somebody that's been the face of our franchise going to be a first ticket Hall of Famer, going to have his jersey up there before he's even taken, taken it off to walk out

the final time. And the statue, all this stuff. And yet this year, uh, he wants other guys to step up and get the ball. He's talking about, like, a Josh Richardson or Justice Winslow, and he tells him all the time, look, I've had my time. This is your time. Stop deferring to me. And that's incredible. I mean, what a confidence boost. That would be for a

young player to have Hall of Famer, tell you that all the time. And be sincere about it. And that's what makes him so. One of the things that makes make some so special. You mentioned earlier, uh, we went to the Philippines together. I think it was 2009. Yeah. By the way, I don't know if I ever told you this, but. And then I left you guys

in LA and was going from LA to Portland. Yeah. We had sushi, I think in Tokyo. Eric, I got so sick. That was like the sickest I have not. That was 2009. I have not eaten on a plane since 2009 due to that sushi. And I don't think it was on the plane. I think it was at the airport, but oh, that was what's funny about

those. I still tell people this day, hey, man, the best sushi you'll ever have is in Japan. Well, but not at the airport. Right. I can attest. I still thought it was good. Yeah. Well, gosh, I thought I ate the same sushi, but I just, uh, it wasn't good. But what a great trip that was. Yeah. You've gone back since. What do you still want to

do in the Philippines? Yeah. I still have family over there. Uh, I haven't gone now for probably three or four years. Um, but I fully intend on going back. And it's just a give back. I'm a, uh, I mean, obviously the Philippines and my heritage is very dear to me. Uh, and that's the number one sport there. And I tell people all the time, unless you've

actually been over there and experienced it when people say, yeah, it's the number one sport. I mean, it's the equivalent of what soccer would be to a South American country or in Europe. Uh, it's really almost a religion over there. And if that's the case, and that is my duty, you know, is one of my life duties is to go back there and give, uh, because

it's such an impactful, uh, game and sport over there that there's so many lessons that you can help with. And even if I'm only going over there for 10 days, right. Um, you know, that's something that that I'm going to do that I'll continue doing them when my little guy gets a little bit older, hopefully he'll become over there with us. And I'm going to be

able to do that. And doing that house special, you are a rock star when we went over there. I mean, I think just in observer, seeing you go over there for the first time in many years. Uh, you had to have been blown away by the reception that you got. And just how many people watched Miami Heat basketball. Yeah, that's, that's been the really cool part

of it is. Uh, wait. Now everybody over there in the 80s and 90s were Boston Celtics and LA Lakers fans. Uh, because those, those were only games around the world. I mean, yeah, for me, um, football. Yeah. I said there wasn't only the first time that I'd been able to be in the community right now, and I know there was someone everyone who got lost was

actually covering it. I mean, it was in the 90s, what I saw in my long term, um, that I play with some professional athlete in the world because they had to probably like be unlucky. That was an early period of. When I, maybe, I mean, I called up a guy, like here, on that guy, I'm able to have some some really life changing memorable trips. Uh,

NBA has been outstanding, uh, with that facilitating that and helping us put together the trips and my staff usually had bring a different person each time. And they've had, uh, I hope, you know, I'm sure a life memory out of it. Um, then hopefully we can continue it. I think most people know this, but you've grown up around basketball. Your dad, obviously, a very successful executive

in the NBA. Um, do you hope to show, you know, this kind of path for your son? I mean, I know you've grown up around it. And, uh, you were a ballboy for the Blazers with a ball, how long the owner and when you were, okay, yeah, let's talk about that in a minute. But, um, it's been in your blood, your entire life. Yeah. You know,

it was interesting about that. Those, my, my dad didn't force it. Um, at all. Um, or maybe some people, I'm the outside who could look at it. Like, no, it's not force for you. They're all. Yeah. But that was, uh, you know, that generations of that generation of parents, that's how you, you babysat. You brought your pride to wherever you were working and everybody else would

just watch over. Right. And there wasn't helicopter parenting back then. Like there is now. Right. So my dad would pick me up from school. And we, you know, he was going to the game. So I would go to the right. Uh, and just hang out while he worked. Um, but, um, but, you know, to be, to be honest, he didn't, he didn't force it. And it

was never an intent for me to be a my coach. Like, that was the furthest thing from it. When I finally did tell him I wanted to get into this side of it, he tried to talk me out of it because he had seen, you know, how emotionally draining. Yeah. Um, um, coaching can be, thought coaches are crazy. He really did. And, uh, you know, the,

will we be that way with, uh, with our son, I have no idea. I know that, um, you know, I definitely won't force basketball. Right. On him. Uh, be excited to see which direction he goes. But, uh, you know, again, being, uh, somebody that grew up in an NBA family, uh, I look at that now. And I just think of so many fun times that our

family was able to experience together because of the blazers. And, uh, I feel grateful that I grew up in that environment. It probably seemed extreme. Maybe to, to other people that felt very normal, uh, to me and, uh, the car rides were a lot of fun. Just talking hoops and, and talking shop. Yeah. So he was doing like a Jedi mind trick on you. You didn't

know it. But he was, he was getting you into basketball. Yeah. You know what he forced me to do is all the other sports. And there's all the ones that I quit. Ah, yeah. So what football, baseball and all of them. Yeah. Wow. He was really well. You know, we come from a baseball fan. Yeah. Grandfather was a beat ready for the Detroit Tigers for a

long time, uh, for almost 40 years. Right. So, uh, my, my dad was a big Tigers fan, a big baseball fan. As much of a baseball fan as he was an NBA fan. And yeah, you could maybe make a case and he was trying to get me to be a baseball player. Uh, but I wasn't having that. That's funny. Um, I listened to a podcast with

Steve Nash recently. And he said the number one determining factor. To success in his opinion is resilience. Agreed. Disagree. If it's not resilience, you coach a lot of players. I'm sure you can see. These are the ones that are going to succeed. These are the ones that are going to have a tougher time. I know it's hard to pin just one determining factor. But for you,

when you look at a player. And you say this guy's going to make it or not make it. What's the factor that you look at? Hey, look, that's one of the books that I gave out. Angela Duckworth talks about that in her book. Uh, bestselling book, uh, grit. Uh, I would, uh, I would probably agree with that. Uh, because there's 450 NBA players. There are over

hundreds of maybe 200 that you could consider that are in the G league program. Uh, and then each year, you have 60 draft eligible players. Okay. This is a very small number. Right. But there is not much difference between the players that maybe are playing in Europe. Players that have been drafted. That washed out of the league. Players that are playing in the G league. Uh,

but there's this intangible quality of, uh, yeah, I would agree with that. That there has to be a level of, of persistence when things are not going your way. And to, to find a way to overcome. When most people would, or some people even nowadays would quit. You can't even say most people. Um, but I mean, the whole culture of, of everything. Everything is, is changing.

Uh, and even now, if you talk to college coaches, just seeing the staggering Lee amount, a high number of transfers every year. Yeah. Uh, look, when we went to college, you would never think about transferring. If you weren't playing or getting that, you know, you freshman year, you weren't getting the shots that you wanted to. You would just work a little bit harder and, and, uh,

and find a way, you know, to overcome it. Now, if you don't like it, you change teams. Right. And that's happening even at the youth level, high school level. Now, uh, it seems like every city now has open enrollment and the transfer. You know, three or four times as a high school student, that was unthinkable. Um, now 25 years ago. Uh, so there's some built in

layers of teaching where you have to teach young players how to develop some of that, that create and it's a foreign language. Uh, even, even bring that up and, and challenging players to do it. But it's something that we still believe in here. At the Miami Heat is something that you can develop. There's some that are a little bit stronger with it naturally. Um, just like

they would be with athleticism. Um, or emotional stability, whatever it may be. Um, but we're going to try to help and, and develop that, that aspect of it. Paul Allen. I know you were a ballboy for the blazers. When he was the owner of the team, he passed away recently. I know you probably didn't spend a ton of time with him, but just from a far,

uh, and it's someone who was an NBA owner and you're from Portland, your thoughts on him and what he meant. Yeah. It's a very sad day. Uh, not just for people in Portland or, or trailblazer fans, uh, you know, because he did bring something, um, that became bigger, uh, and, and Portland under his watch. But, uh, you know, somebody that's way too young, um, and, you

know, my biggest memories, uh, probably of, of the trailblazer is probably were just just before that. But it was, it's hard not to acknowledge or recognize them in that the heyday were, uh, the Clyde Drexler, Terry Porter, and drum crochet. But yeah, the big beer, yeah, court side. Right. And my, my dad wasn't working for the blazers that time, but I was still a big fan,

uh, of the Blazers, um, you know, under, under his leadership, uh, and really put that organization on the sports world map. Um, and, you know, you truly was a fan. Uh, you see some ownership groups now in this league that don't live in the same city, uh, that that similar, but that don't even really follow the day to day operations, uh, and, and Paul was, uh,

of that, uh, ilk that, that is a little bit different than what you're seeing now. Last question, because I know you have a busy day. Uh, when you look back 25, 30 years from now on your career, what's the legacy that you want to leave? What do you want people to say about air expelster? Oh, come on, Brian, you're asking. Like, uh, I, uh, I'm probably

don't even care. Okay. Yeah. Um, I mean, I hope they don't say that I'm, uh, I can, that's a magicive there, but, you just, you know, for a legacy, what I'm, right, leaving behind. Hopefully my wife and I can have some, some things that we're doing, you know, from a charity standpoint that will live on longer because of what we've been able to accomplish. Uh, that,

that'll have legs, you know, past the time that I'm on this earth. Uh, but I, I look at it more from, uh, a sense of gratitude, uh, that, uh, you know, Pat always calls this, uh, we're in the toy department of human affairs. Uh, but it really is such a, a bizarre world sometimes and you do have to step back and, and even during the day,

I'm, uh, I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to do that. But putting in years of experience, two years back, right. And then that's the one you had, yeah. I'm never gonna do that. Um, and calle of this roto comedy is actually something that made people realise that it's a pretty cookie and a little chubby. Um, so blue and blue, um, those, yeah. That's one

of those reps of time. Not painting. Both r all those Squ rooms, and the heat, hopefully we can impact, you know, as many people in a positive way as well, just even with the staff and players, um, that, that we have living legacies that impact people in a positive way. Well, I think you guys have done a great job with that. I mean, even going back

a few years to the trade on Martin, you know, as I was talking today in my earlier conversation with the dolphins, coaches and players have a platform that is really important. That the normal person doesn't have. Yeah. And people pay attention to what you say. And for those that recognise that they have a platform and can really cause positive change, it's, it's great. And I see

you guys doing that here. So, yeah. I know that has a lot to do with you and, and Pat. Yeah. You just see the right examples. So if you're in that environment, um, you know, are the players that we've had in our organization have been so courageous over the years. But also we've had some very giving players that have their own foundations that get immediately involved

in this community. And, and help even after they've left. Right. And they keep their foundations going here. You don't have to ask them was, you know, one that, you know, he's dear to me, obviously, another captain in face of the franchise and everything. But his talk about legacy, what he's doing in the South Florida, where he grew up in some of the worst, you know, toughest

challenge places to have these starbucks franchises and subways. Now you know, as pizza restaurants. Yeah. And he hires people, you know, from his community. So, right. It really is amazing. And he sees the impact that he's having from being a professional basketball player to be able to really try to change a community. That's inspiring. So, if you're, you know, you're looking for a place that you

can get a player, you know, you can see the impact that he's having. You're a young player coming into this league like Derek Jones or Josh Richson, Justice Winslow. You see that example. You want to start talking to your agent and people and start putting together. Okay. What's my plan? Well, how am I going to make an impact? And can I put together a foundation? Can

I do something? That's awesome. Those moments when I see a player having that kind of impact as you do does in our locker room. And he'll ask guys if they're doing anything. Those moments to me are as enjoyable as, you know, winning a playoff series. That's the stuff I'll remember, you know, 30 years from now. Congratulations on fatherhood. Best of luck with this season. And thanks

for taking the time to sit down. Okay, Brian. Yeah, this was fun. Let's watch it. Yes. I'm going to sign up using promo code SBR and your first deposit is matched up to $100 for free. I already played underdog fantasy on the underdog fantasy app. But if I didn't, I'd use that for $100 and go for a pick him contest where I can bet the over

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get started right away with a free match on your first deposit up to $100. Now here's Brian's interview with Pete Carroll from May 2011. I'm happy to be joined by Pete Carroll, the executive VP of football operations and the head football coach of the Seattle sea hawks coach. How are you doing? Good. What's going on? Just happy to have you on the show. You know, when

I spoke to you, you know, a few years ago in your office at US, you told me it had to be a near perfect situation for you to return to the NFL. What about the sea hawks job intrigued you to return to the NFL last year? Well, everything, every aspect of it was right on the mark. And that's why it did kind of fit what I

had described to you a while back. You know, it was a, it was a club that was an owner that was willing to give freedom to the head coach to do the things he needed to do in my mind, which was, was all the personnel. And the staff and the structure it felt off the way you wanted to do it was the open support from that

end of it. It was a makeup of a franchise, you know, that had a chance to do something. Where they played, who they played, the stadium was awesome. The fans were great. You know, every aspect of this had the potential. That wasn't all set up just right. And that they were winning in one of the amount of games right up, which was fine. I understood that

point of it. But all of the elements that would make up a great opportunity were there. I think particularly it was the freedom to do it the way I knew how to do it best was made it most attractive. What did you learn from your time as the head coach of the Jets and the Patriots at help bring you a more educated perspective about the NFL

when you took the Seattle job? Well, there's, there's this job has so many aspects to it that as you're going through the first couple of times, you know, you just get smacked in the face with decisions and concepts and approaches and perspectives that, you know, that you couldn't anticipate until you got there. So just getting through those things and seeing them for the first couple of

times, it lets you know what you're in for. And so I really didn't feel like I did very well. The first couple of times around and didn't have, you know, the perspective that I do have now that was it, you know, I was able to kind of put together after those two experiences, then going to USC for nine years and figuring it out, then coming here,

it gave me a chance to get my mind in order, my philosophy in order and really a much stronger perspective to attack the challenges of this job. And in Seattle, you led the Seahawks to their first NFC West title in three seasons. You proceeded to knock off the defending Super Bowl champion New Orleans Saints in the playoffs. You in first year GM John Schneider, you guys

made 284 roster moves. What are your priorities with your roster this off season? Well, we're really, we're dead silent quiet right now, you know, with nothing going on. It's a little bit hard on us because we are so active in the same time thing last year, but, you know, our priorities are just like it was in the past. We're in the draft to pick out specific

areas and go ask them and improve them and do it with really strong, wild competitive, tough guys that really love the game. And to build just a really strong culture from within, we've always been about making this roster more competitive. And that's why you saw us make so many moves last time around. And where we attacked outfits of line in the early part of the draft

and then went after some skill guys. You know, the ball, you know, the second half of the draft, we really were specifically pointed at trying to improve the depth, improve the competitiveness. And just make us a stronger team all the way across the board. And so we'll do exactly the same thing as we go to for agency. And that means we're, you know, and the creation

of the young players has really got to be particularly pointed in that regard too. I read a story this morning. I, you know, last year you gave former USC wide receiver Mike Williams a chance to get back into the NFL. He rewarded you by becoming your leading receiver. I saw a story this morning that said, maybe you give Matt Liner that same opportunity to make your

roster. Any thoughts to bringing Matt Liner to him? Well, we really can't talk about the free agency situation right now. So there's really no names I can banter around unfortunately. So I'm sorry we can't do that yet. But we're, what we're always going to do is compete to be on every single opportunity. And John and I are determined to try and every single thing that comes

out there that gives you a chance to improve your football team. We're going to investigate thoroughly, make a decision where it fits with us and then move on and go after it or not. You know, and that's why we've been so active. And that's how, you know, we're in everything's happening. We hope so that we take a good competitive shot at it. So we'll, you know,

we'll consider all the options when the time comes. Join by Pete Carroll. He's the executive vice president of football operations. He's also the head football coach of the Seattle Seahawks coach. The NFL obviously we're in a lockout right now. So there's no organized workouts. You're unable to work with your players or really even talk to your players. How much pressure will this lost work at time

put on your coaching staff and other coaching staffs in the NFL to get ready? For the start of the season whenever we get that green light. Well, it's relative, but we're always under pressure. You know, this is a high pressure business. Everybody is doing everything they possibly can to gain every edge possible. And so this was presented by being presented with some new factors, you know,

the time frames were changing and free agency following the draft and not on and on. You know, we're all competing to figure it out. And so, you know, we're, we have plans upon plans depending on when things kick back into business again. Tomorrow it could be all the way to a camp time or it could even be into the camp time. So we have to be

ready for all the scenarios. And that's what we've done. We've played a lot of contingency type of games where their shuttle's a truck figured out, you know, and then make plans that fit. And as we go by the time frames, okay, this one doesn't apply anymore. We just keep throwing them in the hopper. That's how we're doing it. And we're just trying to make sure that

we're ready for whatever. And when free agency clicks, we're going to hit it a thousand miles an hour in the moment that they say we're on. And on and on. That's how we're dealing with it. Do you have any concerns about guys not working out and coming in out of shape or guys that are working out and they might get hurt because they're unsupervised? Yeah, I

am concerned because we go to great depths and great lengths to make an off season with structure and with the plan with the process to bring about guys at the right time so that they can, you know, they can really keep properly for the camps and in the start of the season. So we don't have a pulse on that right now. So I think for the

most part, or guys have the good conscience about working out, but when it's not as structured as it could be, then you leave, you know, you leave out opportunities for the guys to miss on the consistency and the competitiveness and the challenge of it all and the guidance from people that are involved with our program. A lot of our guys are working out with other individuals

that are pushing them trainers and things like that, but it's not the same as working out with a bunch of guys competing with a bunch of guys and with the structure program. So yeah, we're all asked to that we're concerned about. NFL coaches are in a really tough spot right now. You're caught in the middle of the battle between the players and the owners. You work

for the owners, but obviously you want to talk to your players and you want to, you know, go through OTAs and get them ready for the season. Yeah, well, you're right. You hear on it with that's kind of what it feels like and right now, you know, there's not many things that we're really even, you know, able to speak on, but that is a situation that

we have to deal with. And I think as soon as we get back to business, everything is going to kick right back in the full speed. And I think everything that will have happened, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll be a weapon and all that, but the, the, the pressure and the, you know, the tension that will come from having to get a season ready. We'll really

direct all of our focus and our tension when we get back together. Coach, you're a grinder. You work as hard as any coach I've ever seen when I was down at USC for a few days. I just watched you and you were hard. When I interviewed you in your office, you had a cot in your office. And I know that some nights you slept there because

you were doing so much work. Do you have a coach? You're a hot in your office at the Seahawks office. Are you spending nights trying to get ready for the next game? Well, we get a little bit of an advantage here in Seattle that we don't have to commuting in the, the, the, the, in all of so far away from the office. You know, that effort,

you just try to pick up another hour of sleep so that you can, you know, be affected the next day or. And sometimes it's just the best to not get on the road, but. But don't know where we got to work out here. We don't need to sleep in the office or we got to figure it out pretty good. I'm excited to see you in new

Niners coach Jim Harbaugh go at it. You guys USC Stanford, you had some good games there. What do you think about Coach Harbaugh coming to the NFC West? Well, I think he's done a great job and, and, and establishing himself at Stanford. It did some marvelous things. Had a great run and put it together and showed that he was worthy of getting this opportunity and the.

Validates in San Francisco were, you know, they're in need of change and turn around. And, you know, I would think that Jimmy's going to bring a great, you know, a great energy for. He's competitive as heck. He's tough. He's got a good way about it. I think he's going to be a big factor in our division and, you know, I welcome it and, and always like

competing against him and, and we'll get that chance right off the bat. We open up with those guys. So we'll get after the beginning. And it'll be a lot of fun coach. What are your thoughts about the pack 12? I mean, since you left, they've added two teams. They just signed a multi billion dollar TV contract. They're doing some pretty innovative things. Have you been taking

note? Yeah, well, I think that Larry Scott who jumped in there has really turned around the mentality of it. I think the fact. And for so many years, kind of had that feeling like we were kind of out of the loop a bit, you know, and just the national kind of interest and concerns to a certain extent. We didn't want to admit it, but it was

kind of happening. And you could see it happening in different phases. I think Larry has taken on a very aggressive approach and he's really brought, you know, brought about a mentality. I don't know enough to speak about, you know, the new, the teams of the inner and the divisions of it and the different sections of it. I don't know that much about it. But I do

think that it's the energy that he's brought is really updating the pack 10 and catching up with what's happening in the southeast and, you know, ACC and those kinds of conferences that are really doing good stuff. I think you're going to bring it bring it right to where it deserves to be. The pack 10 is an extraordinary conference with great coaches, great athletes and great concepts

and principles about their their tax and all that are worthy of being considered as the best in the country. So hopefully that that will all come to light just because it's the right thing. We talk about innovations. You are one of the first coaches that really embrace social media. I follow you on Twitter at Pete Carroll. Great follow. You got your song of the day. You

have Twitter chats. Really an inside behind the scenes access for the fans. Tell me about social media and your brand and just communicating with the fans. Well, as we learned about it early on, you know, we started out with it with USC ripset.com was our website just just to kind of experiment and see what we could get done. And some young guys on the staff came

together and then Alphamson joined us and and and gave us a chance to really kind of organize it. And we just had fun with it really as well as about as I got more into it, I realized we were able to send the message out and and and clearly express who we were and what we're all about and in a way that you couldn't do otherwise.

And you could kind of eliminate some of the filters. And so I thought it was a it became a real good just a real good method for us of communicating with our following and with anybody that was considered and wanted to know what we're all about in a way that we could control. And I saw I was like, I was like, I'm not going to be

like that and I've never feel like we're giving up any kind of a competitive edge. I would never do that. But I think we can make it more fun for the people who are interested in one of our following. You know, we find people that don't like it too. You know, not everybody thinks it's the greatest thing in the world. And you know, so you have

to deal with all of that. But all in all, I think it's just makes it more engaging for the fans. And I think it allows us to express who we are more clearly. And I think it's just a real good thing to be able to express who we are more clearly. And I think it's just a real good thing to be able to express who we

are more clearly. I think it's just a real good thing to be able to express who we are more clearly. I'm going to be able to express who we are more clearly. I think it's just a real good thing to be able to express who we are more clearly. Now here's Brian's interview with Eric Musselman from September 2020. My guest is Eric Musselman. He is the

head basketball coach for the Arkansas razor backs former head coach of the Golden State War. His career is in Sacramento, Kings. He's been an assistant in the NBA as well. He was an assistant in the NBA as well. Huge success as an NCAA head coach. Compiling a record of 130 wins. Only 46 losses. You can find him on Twitter at Erik P. Musselman. Coach Mus, how

are you? I'm doing great, Brian. Thanks so much for having me on. Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. And I and I think I told you when we connected, you know, I used to work for the Portland trowel lasers. And your dad Bill was one of the assistants there right after I left. So I was around him a little bit, but you come from great

Pat degree. Your dad was such a great coach. What was it like growing up around such a great coach? And how did that influence you to want to become, you know, what you've become today? Well, Brian, I didn't grow up playing in a sandbox. I can tell you that. There was no cartoons played when I came down for breakfast before school. Obviously, a unique upbringing. My

dad was my best friend. I got married in school every night all the time. That's kind of how I went to school. I went to ballad when I was on. Then I got into high school, and I first Children Hittole. I wanted to walk into his shoes from a really, really young age. I even remember early elementary school. I would get out of school. My mama

drive in at The University of Minnesota. I would go to their practices, which. From the afternoon. I would shoot after practice when he would go. Have his staff meetings. And really, I would later join and a lot of times food would be brought in. I would go back with him and then it would start all over the next day. So being able to go on road

trips. You know, with my dad both when he was coaching at the University of Minnesota. I remember going on a road trip very vividly. Playing at Michigan when they had campy russle and then later on when I got a little bit older. I'm having the ability to be a ball boy. You know, for for my dad and and it was really interesting. Brian. He kind of

wanted me to be the ball boy attended in the Cavaliers locker room. And I wanted to do it with the opposing team so that I would be around other star players on other teams. So. But just so many opportunities and got a chance to meet so many of his friends. Both in the NBA and then maybe more importantly some of the connections that he had outside

of the NBA and other sports. So incredible upbringing. And a lot of leadership qualities learned on a daily basis. The three E's were very big with coach Bill Moselman. Energy, effort, enthusiasm. I know you preach that with your teams today. Explain that to our audience. Yeah. Well, when when I, you know, my mom would pack by lunch and my dad's contribution to the brown paper bag

lunch was he rode every day. Effort, energy and enthusiasm. And when my dad was on a road trip. During the week, a school week, my mom would then follow up writing that in his place. But you know, he just his big thing was like if you bring effort, you bring energy and you do it with enthusiasm. You know, anything could be accomplished in life. And you

know, I mean, he was a three sport player in college at Whitonburg, a small school in Ohio. They grew up in Worcester, Ohio. And so to think that he could become an NBA player. He could be a head coach. And just to see the work ethic of how he did it. And he was just so far ahead of his time as far as promotion. His teams

had a pregame warm up. It was like the Harlem Globe draw. You know, I just think that the lessons learned from someone that was ahead of his time promotion league. Because a lot of stuff I do on social media. I learned from him at a really, really young age. Hmm. Your son, Michael, is now on your staff at Arkansas. That must be a fun experience for

the both of you. It really is, Brian. I mean, that I worked with my father for one year. While he coached the Minnesota Timberwolves. And interestingly, he got hired the year before their inaugural season. And then it was just about the season training camp was actually just about to start. It was like middle of September. And my dad still had hired me to be on a

staff. So I called him because I just assumed he was hired me. And I called him and said, Dad, you know, training camps like a week and a half away. Are you not going to hire me? And he said, son, you've never been a coach. And the year before I was actually a general manager for the Rapid City thrillers and flip saunders was our coach. And

he said, you're not joining me until you prove yourself as a coach. And flip ended up going and coaching the lacrosse cat birds. And so it opened up the Rapid City thriller job. I did that for a year. And then got a chance to be my dad's assistant coach, Brian. And so that was one year that now that he's no longer, you know, living is a

year that I'll always look back on. You know, Tom Tibito was on that staff. I actually lived with my dad for a really, really short timeframe because he woke me up. One of the first nights there and wanted to watch how to defend ticket rolls was stocked in and below. And I was in the, you know, middle of the night. And I'm like, I got to

get out of here. I asked Coach Tibito where he was living. I moved into the Henneput crossing apartment complex with Tibito after a few nights with my dad. But, you know, the interesting thing. First father, son had coaches in the history of the NBA and now Michael on staff. Kind of a third generation of somebody who wants to go into coaching. And I would be, you

know, utterly shocked if my younger son Matthew, who's a sophomore at the University of San Diego, wouldn't get into coaching as well. I love it. I love all the family. I just think it's great. The bond that you guys have. One of the things that you do that I thought was really interesting. I saw this on your social media. You have your current Arkansas players write

a letter to a past Arkansas razor back who wore their same number. How do you come up with that? I love that. There's just so much history at Arkansas, Brian. And I started thinking I was looking through an old media guide. And I started looking at all these great players, the Sydney Monk reefs and the Coralus Williams. And I kind of thought, like, how can we

make those guys joke flying? Make those guys feel a part of the program and know that we are discussing what they did and what they did. They accomplished. And I actually wrote a letter to coach Nolan Richardson as well. You know, and I just, you know, like, there's so many cool things about coaching in college. And, and we want the derro walkers and all those guys

to know, like, hey, we recognize what you guys did. We recognize that there's got to be great pride putting this uniform on because of the history of the program. And I have not done anything. I've done that, Brian, anywhere else that I've been. But we did feel with the history of the program that it was something that we really needed to do. And I wanted. I

wanted our current players to know a little bit about the program. So they actually had to study what we did is we gave each player four to five names of people who wore that number. And then they had to go back. And they had to study to see which one. I think that's great. I just think it's really, I think, you know, you look at all

these sports teams, whether it's basketball or football or baseball, knowing the heritage of who laid that path before you, whether it's a coach or a player. I think it's really important. I don't think there's any doubt. I mean, I know like for me, you know, I love the study coaches and, you know, it was really important. Like there was a show on Eddie Sutton, a documentary

on it. And I thought it was important. Because coach Sutton had so many great years at Arkansas that not only I watch it, I told our whole staff that they had to watch it. And I also wanted my wife and daughter to watch it just because of the history and showing great respect for people that have laid the groundwork for us today. Yeah. All right. I

want to hop into current times because 2020, what a year. And, you know, everyone I've had on this show this year, they've had to pivot in some way, shape, or form. How has it been coaching during a pandemic when, you know, we've all been so distancing and, and March Madness was canceled. It's just been a crazy year. How have you pivoted during this year? Well, Brian,

the first thing we did was we really made a conscious effort. You know, I had worked for Doc Rivers in Orlando and study a lot of stuff that he currently does. And, you know, one of the things that he talked to with the LA Clippers when they were on downtime and not back at the gym was with you know, with the weight. So that's a phrase

that we used with our guys. And what does the width of weight mean? Well, it means while you weren't with us before you got back on campus, while we were waiting to see what was going to happen with our world. You know, are you doing pushups? Are you doing sit ups? Anybody can go get a basket ball, even if it's an outdoor ball and triple figure

eight. We can all lay in our bed and imagine being a better free throw shooter. You know, so all those things were part of winning the weight. Are you reading a book and studying about the history of basketball? Or are you reading a book to learn something about the world? So all those things we talked about winning the weight, but, you know, being nimble is a

phrase that we've used now that we're back together because it's, you can do all the right things on a college campus. I mean, you can try to form a contained, environment or a bubble or whatever phrase or wording you want. But at the end of the day, you know, these young men are college students. And you just never know something could be something as innocent as

playing golf, miniature golf with somebody. And then that person might get COVID, you know, 24 hours later. And then that particular person could go into, you know, quarantine for 14 days and never having to have, you know, COVID. So I think there's just so many things. The great thing is I coached in the USBL and in the old CBA and in the G League and you're

and and guys are coming and going. And I think that we've already seen it with a very, very short college basketball or college football season. Just the first weekend, how rosters are going to fluctuate. They're going to be a lot more fun. They start, you know, the pandemic and you've got to be nimble. You got to be flexible. Players are going to have to know multiple

positions. Because you just never know what's going to happen when you wake up the next day. And so being nimble something that we talked about on a daily basis. I'm curious. I haven't really talked to a current college basketball coach this year. How are you guys doing testing? Is this daily testing? Is it every other day? How do you guys keep track and, you know, do

the tracing and all of that stuff? Yes. So I mean, first of all, the SEC has their own medical, you know, outline for when you're in season. And then another one for when you're out of season. And for us, because we're not in season, we're now doing every Tuesday, you know, we do, we do testing. And then the tracing just becomes, you know, it's pretty easy

for us. Because our guys are all on point. Primary option in our performance is a really important level rank. Like the EU model, you know, come to Iowa street for what they're currently holding. And with our student athletes, I mean, they're developing an incredible bond through communication since we've been back together. And are the athletes, most college campuses I go to, the athletes live in like

special athlete dorms. So are your guys living in a special dorm where they're a little bit more isolated than the general population you mentioned that they're taking classes online too? That's a great question. I mean, our upper classmen and it was our philosophy that Vada, we allowed guys to live off campus. We, you know, we trusted them to do the right things off campus. And oftentimes

off campus living allows the cost of living for those guys to have a little bit more money than on campus living can be a little bit more expensive. At Arkansas, we do have a rule with freshman athletes to live on campus. Because however, what we found was that, you know, the dorms could maybe have a little bit more higher risk with COVID. And so we have

moved our four guys out of the dorm and into an off campus place. But we do have our guys living together so that they're not living with, you know, random students. And we can follow their path of where they've been on a daily basis and who they'd come in contact with. So according to what I've read, November 25th or there about is the start date, is

that right? That's correct. And that's about the extent of what I know. So we got the date. But we still don't have much clarity. I mean, there's, when you, you know, one of the big jobs as a college coach, obviously the recruiting's, you know, number one, you got your own team that you're dealing with. You've got all the, you know, factors of dealing with, you know,

speaking engagements and stuff. But scheduling is a huge part of a team success or failure. If a team puts itself non-conference wise to have the ability to at least be in the conversation for postseason NCAA play. And right now, we're not really exactly sure what the non-conference is going to look like. Some, you know, conferences, you know, are still trying to figure out exactly what the

season's going to look like. And I think at the bottom line of all this, Brian, is like, how do we play games? But yet most importantly, keep the student athletes safe and healthy. Yeah. And it's interesting to see, you know, some conferences, whether it's football or basketball, they're just playing conference games, you know, football we're seeing that a lot. Some are playing a few out of

conference games. But I think, you know, one of the goals during 2020, it seems in college athletics is play games in your geographic region. Not flying cross country, you're not riding buses, you're not getting in hotels and things of that nature. How do you think, like, if you could be the czar of college basketball for this season, what do you think the best way to play

this season is? Yeah, I think, I think when you think about, like, you know, all conference games, I mean, there is beauty in that because then you're talking about having the same COVID rules. And you're also talking about financially, you know, in the SEC to be able to test once a week. And then again, the night before, all those things, you know, you have the ability

to do. I think when you start talking about a power five school, playing a low major or mid major, how does that look from a testing standpoint? And we really don't know what that would look like, how that would look. And so I think that's why there's a little bit of pause. Right now in the scheduling, although we do know when we can start, we are

in that pause, so to speak, as far as moving forward with the schedule. So I do like the fact that the regional games, did he not a bus. I've even talked to programs that have in the past, even before the pandemic, that have flown the day of the game and not spent the night. And like, our women soccer team and our coach has incredible success. He

has done that with games that are close enough to get on a charter, get back, or same thing with the bus. A lot of Kruger at Oklahoma for several years has flown the day of a game. If it's not long travel. So, you know, certainly that stuff that we've thrown around as a staff as well. There's such a debate going on, especially with football right now

about, okay, it's one thing to make NFL. Players play. It's another thing to ask college athletes to play. I get the money part of this and the TV right. And I get the fact that a lot of these student athletes, they want to play. But again, safety is the number one priority. I've had the president of Oregon State University on this show. And the president's on

these campuses are the one to have the final say on whether play is going to happen or not with the schools and the conferences. But Brian, not to interrupt you. Are you talking about King Alex? I am. Yeah. He is a really, really good basketball player, by the way. Really. I wish I would have known that. I was at LSU as an assistant. And King Alexander

would come in almost every day and get shots up or play pickup balls. Sorry to interrupt. But I wish I would have known that. That would have been a great nugget to throw into our conversation. No, but I think these schools are in a tough spot. Because, you know, I think that's a great thing. You know, look, it's a business. And they're trying to generate revenue.

And we're seeing a lot of schools, even the Stanfords of the world, who are having to cut sports. Because the revenues are not coming in from March madness and from college football and things like that. So it's this dilemma of, you know, do I keep my kids as safe as possible? Or do we play so we can sustain this program and, you know, be able to

play five, 10 years from now? Yeah. I mean, I think that's what, you know, it's obviously a tough decision. And that's why the testing becomes really important. Because if, if you're testing once a week or if you're testing multiple times, you know, you, you have a way better chance to get a great handle on any outbreak that could happen within your team. And that's why the

testing becomes really important. That's why you have to really, really trust your student athletes as well. Like if they have a call, they've got to report that immediately or a sore throat or, a headache or a body ache, it's really, really important that they understand all the symptoms. And then, hey, don't try to fight through it. You know, that's, that's not what this is about right

now. This is about being educated on what the symptoms are and then coming and being truthful immediately. And so I think that's part of something from an education standpoint that you've got to talk to your, your team about. But I, but I do think as you look at today's athletic world, obviously major league baseball, the NFL, the NBA bubble, the W NBA bubble and in Bradington,

Florida, the hockey, obviously they have the two bubbles in Canada. But then there's a whole other world that, that a lot of people don't know where here about right now. AAU basketball has been so many tournaments across the country. There's high school football in many states that, that they're playing. And so I do think that the students, athletes who've dedicated, you know, their life to play

collegiate football. And then you only get, you know, this year, you're lucky to get 10 games in. Guys want to play both of the families. Want their student athletes to have the opportunity as long as the protocols are being followed to try to keep everybody as safe as possible. I have not spoken with a coach or a player who was told in March, Hey, March Madness

is canceled. How devastating was that? I mean, again, I think it was the right thing to do. But I mean, you know, I'm out in the Oregon and Sabrina and ask you look like shoes on her way to winning a national championship at the University of Oregon and you never get that back. So I imagine when you have to have that conversation with your players, it's

probably really devastating. It is Brian. And like here's the biggest reason is, you know, I just, I had just come off three straight years at Nevada of participating. In the NCAA tournament, you know, lost one, the one year, three years ago in first round. And then had an opportunity to go to a sweet 16. And there's nothing better for a student athlete than to be able

to participate in an NCAA tournament. And for us at Arkansas in March, it was really, really difficult. We had won a game. We had beat Vanderbilt in the first round. We were getting ready to play South Carolina. And the way that our game started against Vanderbilt was my son came running off the floor. We were just about to tip. I think we were about seven minutes

before the game. And he had just found out about the jazz and Rudy go there. And so we went into that game, walking out, you know, for the opening tip thinking, is this particular game going to get canceled? Now our players had no idea because their phones were already up. And they didn't have access to know what happened. But then immediately after the win, when we

were obviously really excited that our chances were still alive in the SEC tournament, we were told immediately after the game that there would be no fans the next night. So that was an adjustment. We went right back and started preparing. Again, we had the late game. We didn't get back to really late. We started video on South Carolina. We started talking about a game plan. And

we had a meeting the next morning at 11 a.m. to go through our walkthrough. And I got a phone call from our athletic director, Hunter Yura, check it about 1048. And he told me so I didn't have a lot of time to gather myself. I was a little bit shocked and stunned and started talking to the team about what was going on. And one of the

players stopped me and said, well, wait a second. The coach is what you're telling us we're not playing tonight. And I had to tell the group, the young man, the season is over. Like we're done. God. And I broke down, try and as did many of our players. So probably the hardest team meeting that I've ever had, Brian, for sure. Yeah, especially for those seniors. Again,

not only the season over, your career is over. Yeah. And I think that a lot of times, you know, people, have often said to me since then about the seniors. And for us, we had two players that declared for the NBA draft early. And both those players kept their name in the draft. So two highly talented players that both could have made a huge impact in

an NCAA tournament type setting. And would have had memories for life. Those two guys, you know, no longer have an opportunity. To play in the tournament last year. And I often think, you know, like maybe not having the opportunity last year to finish the season was a big factor in those guys keeping their name in the draft as well. Yeah. So we mentioned that November 25th

potential start date. You said you're in a pause right now. What do you do between now and November 25th? Because again, it's kind of wait and see, but also we need to be prepared. Yeah. I mean, I think the big thing is, you know, you can't burn your team out. So because guys came back, we were able to really get some good work. And now I'm

trying to taper to how are we going to get ourselves ready. But yet not knowing if we're going to play 25 games or if we're going to play 27 games. Because I think you've got a tailor, your schedule practice wise, Brian, to exactly. You know, how are you going to end like you've almost got to look at the end of the season and work yourself backwards

from a practice standpoint on, you know, when, when are you going to be able to peak? And in a normal year, we have a practice plan that we've used the last five years. Well, that things, you know, in the garbage right now, because we lost five weeks in the summer. So now we're just trying to figure out like how much, you know, how much video. So

once we get started mid October, when official practice starts and we're out of the, you know, we, we've been in four hours a week. And now we transition Monday to eight hours a week. And then we've got to figure out like how are we going to use those eight hours for the next few weeks leading up to the first official practice. So there's a lot of

planning, a lot of discussion going on and kind of how you move forward. Yeah. I want to end our conversation on a few general topics. First, I'd be an idiot not to ask you this, but you've coached as a head coach in the NBA and you've had great success. Like I said, 130 wins, 46 losses as an NCAA head coach. Biggest difference between being an NBA

head coach and an NCAA head coach. Rich Carlton, compared to Mary. A piece of pizza after a day or a filet man, young lobster on a charter flight. There's so many differences. It's, it's, you know, I often laugh, you know, there'll be some times where you, especially at Nevada, where, you know, you get per dem on a time that you don't take your team out to

a meal. It could be like, you know, I was at outward bound so that the guys can eat at the airport prior to a commercial flight. They, they give you like seven bucks or whatever. And I'm thinking about my NBA per dem. And so, but there's so many differences. It's so interesting because I did this job at Nevada. Haven't been an assistant coach in college for

just three years. And I got all these side out about late game package plays. And there's hardly ever a side out of bounds in college. And so in the NBA, you've got to be a great side out of bounds, offensive coach and defensive coach. Philistophically, at the collegiate level, you got to be really good baseline out of bounds and baseline out defense. That's how you can

steal extra possession. So just something that I never, you know, watching NBA in college all through my life, my dad coaching the Cavaliers and the Tim Roles and the NBA. But also coaching at the collegiate level, I had no idea that the baseline out of bounds side out is completely different to two leagues. And then obviously, I think the biggest thing philosophically is instead of 82

games, we're talking about 30 games. But the big thing that that so many people miss on is the NBA game is 48 minutes compared to a 40 minute game. So there is this incredible adjustment. When you're talking about only playing two games a week at the collegiate level, compared to three to four games at NBA. And then, by the way, you add the extra eight minutes

per game. That drastically changes how you suck when you sum. And all those things become extremely important. Philosophically, as you're trying to put together a game plan, not only for each and every game that you play, but also a game plan throughout the course of the season. Coach, you come from the old school growing up around your dad. And, you know, like you said, Tom Tivito

and some others. Analytics, a big part of today's game. And, you know, I like to ask coaches. I've had coach Spowe is a really good friend of mine. Coach Fisdale, good friend. It's evolving and changing. And you have to figure out where do we use analytics versus where do we use? Like, if I look at that heat team right now and we'll get into that in

a minute, but like, look at the heart and the guts of the guys on that team and the guys who were on the scrap heap and are now doing great things. And I think the heat used analytics, but they also coached them up and developed them the right way in order to have them in this position. So it's a long way of asking, how do you

use analytics in today's game? Well, analytics for us is really important because, you know, at the VAD, I think every job has its own. You got to find the pitch of each job. And you really got to study your school, your program, your university, you got to study your geographical area for recruiting standpoint. You got to understand like what other programs are around you that you'll

be competing with regionally from recruiting standpoint. So at Nevada, for instance, we, it was, we were going to go to transfer that we were going to do that sprinkled in with some good high school players that we could get out of Sacramento Oakland or Los Angeles. And so we felt like analytically we had to be ahead of the game. And so we have even at Nevada,

we had an analytics department. I mean, I think we were going to have to do a tour three guys that they really, really studied along with me. And we came up with a formula for a PAC 12 transfer, if they averaged set between seven and 10 points, what they could add to the Mount West. And obviously that would jump up to about 13 points to 15

points. So we had this philosophical based on numbers. We could plug guys in. Then we get to the SEC. We add claim the leader of the analytics department for Los Angeles Lakers. So he adds a new layer to what we've already studied. And when I was living in the Bay Area, one of our, one of our neighbors in Danville, California was Billy Bean with the Oakland

A. And so I tried to study, talked to Billy, tried to really dive into the book, Moneyball. But this analytics thing, it's and coach Tom Tivito and I laugh about it all at time. My dad was so into analytics, he had a formula for rebounds per minute. And he divided the rebounds per minute, the opposite way that most people do. And anybody that was a 2.7

or above was a great rebounder. And if anybody was a 3.0 or above would be a phenomenal rebounder. And so when he was coaching the minor leagues, guys like Ed Neely were off the charts. And he in his rebounds per minute, think and Neely gets called up and is one of the great rebounder, guys, when he played coming out of the CBA in the minor league.

So I think this analytic stuff, Brian's been around for so long. I worked with Huey Brown. We took a Nike All-Star team to Limoge France. This was 20 years ago. And he, I put together the team of minor league players, coach Brown, coached him. And he had a statistical formula and a philosophy that your small forward had to be a great defensive rebounder. And that could

ignite the fast break by dominating the defensive boards with not just your power forward at your center, but how your small forward had to be a great defensive rebounder. So think about how old school coach Huey Brown is. And he had a rhyme and reason from a statistical analytics standpoint. And how he wanted the game to be played. And I think in baseball, Kevin Towers, the

former general manager of San Diego, Padres was a really good friend. And they used analytics in their draft room. He let me sit in the Padres draft room one year when they had the number one overall pick. And I was blown away with all the statistical formulas that their regional scouts and their cross checkers had as well. Man, you've been around some amazing Yodas. I would

call them in sports. I've been so lucky. An interesting story, Brian, is what I got fired from the Golden State Warriors. I got a phone call from Michael Lamarty. And Michael was an executive with the Oakland Raiders. And it was out of the, I'd never talked to Michael ever. And he just called and said, Hey, look, I've been fired before our owner, Al Davis loves the

NBA. He loves basketball. If you want an awesome office to come in and watch game film and hang out, you got it. Come any time. Well, I went the next day. And there's nobody better to talk philosophically how to build a roster. Michael Lamarty is incredible. And he just came out with the book, Gridiron genius. And to think that I could be around somebody like Michael

Lamarty, who's not in our sport or Kevin Towers or be able to talk to Billy Bean, all those people. And then you know, to be an assistant coach in Memphis and watch how Jerry West manipulates a draft through just so many great lessons for being around so many incredible leaders. That's awesome. Just a couple more questions. So you tweeted out every team needs an effortless playmaker.

So there's four teams left in the NBA playoffs, Boston Miami, LA Denver. Who are the four effortless playmakers on each one of those teams in your mind? Well, I think you know, right off the bat, like with Denver, the Joker, you know, like they're running their offense, you know, through him, which, you know, to me is unique. He's a willing pastor. He loves to pass. He

loves to make people better. And I, you know, like, when you look at that Denver team, like, what's their MO, well, their MO right now is half fun and smile. Like they enjoy being around each other. They're, they're not. They're playing with a weighted vest on their back. They're playing free. They're playing loose. And, and every team's got to have some type of identity. Brian. And

that's what you've got or what you're getting right now with Denver. And they're embracing this. Hey, we're going to have fun doing it. And then you have, you know, the Lakers and obviously their effortless players LeBron. But, but their playing with a lot of pressure and their handling it and advancing. And so that's a quick look at the, at the West. And then you go to

the East. And, I mean, Miami, man, that's. Like, they're like, kind of, like the old Detroit, piston bad boy teams. Like, they're going to get under your skin. They're going to defend you in game one against Boston. Miami played approximately 10 to 12 zone defense of possession. And then they came back last night and played between 30 and 40, depending on if my son was counting

or I was counting. But that shows you coach. Sposed ability to make adjustments. Cause they were not that heavy in the zone. Most of, most of the regular season. And, and he's got him clicking on all cylinders and the culture that he and coach Riley have down there. There's never a better condition team. And, and you know what? Like their philosophy. How do we win every

year? Like, you're never going to hear about the process or the rebuild in Miami. That's not their DNA. Their DNA is we're going to develop our own guys. Like they have with Tyler here own guys. Like they got guys that are getting better. Don't get robbed. Those guys are getting better. And then they've added veterans like Jimmy Butler and Butler's probably the effortless guy. You know,

with Miami. And then you go to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to. Boston. And at least through the first two games, I think Miami has just worn down Boston from a mental toughness standpoint. Now we never know where the series goes from here. And then Lakers. I mean, I would think LeBron is their effortless playmaker. He makes everything look so easy. There's no question. I

mean, when you have a player like that that commands all eyes and all the attention. And you think about the long and dance passes that LeBron can make. He is one of the all time great effortless passers and a guy that makes his teammates better on a nightly basis. I mean, a lot of guys that play with LeBron James, although he does carry the load off.

Eventually with every team he plays, a lot of guys have career years playing with him, which I think is an incredible, you know, positive impact that he has. Because there are some really great scores that their teammates have below average years as opposed to career years, which guys have with LeBron. One of all the things I'm looking forward to watching in the Lakers Nugget series. You

have two of the greatest passers of all time in LeBron and Yokech. And what a treat that's going to be to watch those two. There's no doubt. And it's not, you know, to me, it's not just the vision, but it's still willingness and liking to do it, you know, like Magic Johnson, what you watched it play. Like he got more joy out of making a great

pass. And you can see that in LeBron and the Joker is those two guys enjoy it. Like to watch the elbow game with Joker and Murray is incredible. I mean, those guys love giving the ball back to each other. And then Murray will move without it curl. And they know they're going to get it back when they're open. And that makes guys move without the basketball

with the ball has eyes and you're willing to share. And then it becomes contagious. Last question for your coach. Social justice has become such a big issue this year as it should be. And, you know, whether you're a corporate person listening to this show or a coach like yourself, you're having to talk to your staff and to people in your life about, you know, the way

of the world today and how we can make it better. I've had a lot of guests on recently to talk about this topic. How are you talking to your team about what they can do to make this world a better place? Well, it starts in my home. You know, my wife and I, you know, had these conversations all the time. And, you know, we have a

daughter, you know, who is half black, half white. And so the conversations that we have internally in our own household are incredibly impactful as I then, you know, we go talk to our staff or our own team, you know, the, like the social injustice or just racism, you know, when my father coached in the 70's at the University of Minnesota, there was a fight with a

high estate. And I know the ins and outs of the fight. And a lot of it was was race based. And it never really came out because it was in the 70's. But I, you know, I'm, you know, I'm. I know what went on. And so I've been at a very, very young age, you know, have heard the conversations. I think the biggest thing is like

we've all got to listen and we've all got to learn. And the great thing that's going on right now, you know, in my opinion, Brian is, is the, is the young people. You know, because even my own son, both of them, one of college age and one just out of the college, like they get frustrated if not enough is done or not enough attention is brought

to social injustice. And I think that our younger people in our country really, really want to make an impact and make a change, which I think is awesome. No, I think it's great. And I think, you know, I have a 15 and a half year old daughter. And I think this next generation is the generation of action. And they're not just going to sit around and

wait for things to happen. And, you know, as I've been reminding people on this show, vote. The way our world works is, is, you know, you exercise your right to vote. And you go out and vote. And that's how change is made. So the very least, go out and register to vote. And, you know, I think, isn't there a rule that there's going to be a

day off in November. So all the student athletes can go and vote. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, you know, it's a great initiative. And one of the assistant coaches at Georgia Tech, who played at Stanford and was a head coach at the University of Portland, Eric Reveno, he kind of started the thing with basketball in the NCAA. Made a big push. He actually reached out

to my son and had my son try to help get other SEC people involved and so on and so forth. And the voting is so important. You know, the, what the NBA's done with bringing awareness to voting. And even social injustice. I mean, the calendar. That Rick Carlisle was reading off day by day from a social injustice calendar was something that we bring every day to

our team and we read it. And then we discuss it before we practice. So I think just continually to listen, continuing to educate. And, and, and most importantly, the young people, they're not afraid to voice their opinion. And I think that's the crucial. And the most important thing is that people are able to speak up and, and give it opinion and let people know how they're

truly feeling. Eric Musselman, the head coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks, men's basketball team, a great follow on Twitter at Eric P Musselman coach. It was really nice to get the direct message from you after you listen to the coach West Ted interview. I think it's great that you found that interview and that you found it interesting. And really, it's really a pleasure to talk to you

here today. Brian, thanks so much. I mean, the sports business radio. I mean, the podcast with coach West Ted was so incredible. It was a, it's a must listen on our staff. Before we regather in 48 hours after the weekend, they will all have listened to it. And any young coach should listen to the veteran coaches like coach West Ted. And the coolest thing is he

had a system and an identity, which is the hardest thing for any coach. Like when you can watch a coach team in any sport, you say, hey, they're going to do this in this game. That's the greatest accomplishment. I think any coach in coach West Ted, that podcast was awesome. Keep doing what you're doing, Brian. Thank you. Yeah, he's a treasure. Can you believe before I

let you go? The story he told of they used to practice at high schools and the high school gym inside was closed. So he's out with Kareem and Magic. Practicing on the asphalt. How would that play today? Brian, there's no chance today. But I will tell you, when I was, when I was a ballboy for the San Diego clippers and Jean shoe was coaching, world B

free was playing with Nick, whether Spoon, sweat, Nader, Don Casey was an assistant coach. We practiced on the naval base in San Diego. No air conditioning. Oh, yeah. I mean, that thing in September was about 150 degrees. The floor was never swept. And it's so interesting. We would go two a days. And on those two a days, because it was hard. Getting off and on the

naval bit coach. shoe would actually have sandwiches brought in. And we would practice for two hours. Then there would be like, you know, subway sandwiches brought in. Guys would eat it. And then we would go right back. And then we would go out there. We wouldn't even retake. Try didn't away with that now. Not in a flush practice facility. There's zero chance that stuff happens. Not

in a million years. All right. Coach Muscleman. Thank you so much for joining us. You're listening to sports business radio. We'll be right back. Five G is here. Is your stadium ready? From an immersive fan experience to a fishing game day operations. Five G is transforming sports in entertainment. If you're ready to jump. Start your 5G transformation. Look no further than Boingo wireless. Boingo is one

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