Russell Brand vs Richard Dawkins On Religion, Science & Love

God is real it's all very well and good saying it on your own but what if you say it to Professor Richard Dawkins hello there you 6.4 million Awakening wonders thanks for joining on this Voyage to truth and freedom within you there is a great light if you cultivate that light it will change your reality can you overcome the system itself can you access a greater

power than the individual light that's been guiding you thus far and could amount to little more than egocentric self-obsession I don't know Russell what do you think let me know in the chat in the comments I spoke to Richard Dawkins the world's most devout atheist it was a fantastic conversation about God newmanism that's an awareness of a deep ore and a potential Haunting of nature by

spirit that is unknowable and unmeasurable how the pandemic was influenced by the new Orthodoxy of science it's a fantastic conversation you can see it in full on Rumble but you can have a look at some of the best bits right now there's actually I'm like deeply religious I'm obsessed with religion I'm obsessed with the unknowable I'm obsessed with the mystery I'm obsessed with the unknowable but

that's the scientific unknoble yeah okay go on and and you similarly seem to be trying to derive from it some ether some ethics some way that we might live I know that I'm I'm so um what I'm saying incredibly grateful to you for your rigor for your work for your fortitude for your willingness to endure I imagine many difficult and challenging conversations and uh it must

have been incredibly difficult to create the body of work that you've created but where I'm um it seems sometimes it does seem to me that you are almost determined to arrive at a materialistic outcome with the kind of zeal that one might uh attribute typically to someone of a particular religious persuasion in the same manner that I am determined to believe in God in the same

way that I lean into Joseph Campbell's observation when watching a Vine wind its way across a trellis that it appears to be moving to the warmth that there is and as you say these patterns only appear to be like intelligence but I feel that that is that is a matter of perspective and like an argument that you must have batted off a thousand times the strawberries

of a strawberry can never be understood and indeed that is the Poetry The Poetry that science can never approach the reason that poetry is required the reason that scripture is required is when it comes to the most important matters in our life death grief Joy loss love heartbreak how or what use is it Professor to turn to this is the endocrine endocrine all outcome and this

is what we imagine has happened in neurologically I mean I love it and I'm fascinated by and it's beautiful and I'm grateful for it but I feel like it exists here in this territory and over here we have this we have access to something that might never be measured or might be measured perhaps one day we will have the tools perhaps one day we will have

the talks but I can imagine that they will be so refined and So Glorious and I have this faith that they are going to lead us to Unity and love and if I can because I saw that you got to be irritated when I used that word love I wonder this Tim will even go this is just a personal Theory I'm glad I've got the opportunity

to run it by you I wonder if love is the sort of felt understanding of unity a kind of sense that I have a duty to a child or a sense that I have an affinity with another that love implies Duty that it implies connection that that separateness the idea that I am this separate biological entity is temporal and spatial and an animalistic interpretation of a

narrow strata of reality which can never really be measured because we don't have the instruments we don't have the instruments we don't have the bandwidth but we can Intuit it that we sense it that this is the job of the shaman and the job of the priest at the job of the Mystic the realm of the psychoactive and psychedelic experience that these are not just fluctuations

and the flatulence of a busy mind that there is something here that is uh vital and I I wonder how you approach those questions in yourself and and where it leaves you with regards to the joy and the grief and the stuff I said an hour and a half ago at the beginning of the question I've never had a psychoactic experience um in which case I'm

obviously a deficient um I um I um understand what's meant by words like love and empathy and uh they are they mean a lot to me and a personal point of view of a personal level um I don't get mystical about it why because I'm a materialist because I think science will or can explain everything and if it can't nothing else can I said that before

but that doesn't demean it that doesn't reduce that doesn't in any way Minify the importance of love love is deeply important to me but I don't get mystical about it you don't sense yourself being at the edge of what it's possible to understand oh I think I'd sense that yes um but then I feel the urge to try to understand it in a scientific level there's

much of physics I don't understand when I talk to physicists I feel I feel old um and um which I understood better so there are plenty of things I don't understand I feel I'm on the edge of understanding things yes I feel that I wonder then if or might have a I mean of course it must a biochemical component that one might with the right instrument

be able to measure and observe the impact of the numinous but there will always be an ulterior uh imperture in the same manner that we've dealt at once with atoms and then electrons and then bosons quarks and whatever like they appears that we can never reliably say ah this is the Genesis and and I what am I trying to say to you I'm trying to say

that I don't know what I'm trying to say see if there's anything because I think I said something quite good you keep using the word numinous and I'm curious what you mean by it well I like C.S Lewis's description of it he goes he goes if I told you that there was a tiger in the Next Room you would feel you would feel afraid and if

I told you there was a ghost in the next room and you believed it you would also feel afraid but not afraid in the same way that you would be afraid of a tiger oh no what's this ghost gonna do no one cares what a ghost is gonna do like in Scooby-Doo but you're aware that your understanding of reality is glitching and twitching and being challenged

he then said imagine if I would say there is a mighty spirit in the room next to you you might feel that you might feel yourself on the edge of something and as Shakespeare said and here my genius is rebuked that the knowledge that there is a great power and I don't feel that we are at odds by perceiving it in nature or fetishizing its particular

understanding over what it somehow suggests say it's root I I feel that in a sense we're talking about the same thing but I suppose what I'm trying to draw from it or extract from it is the possibility that there is something in religious thought that is valuable culturally and necessary in fact and that if we allow science to encroach continually upon that territory what will happen

is that this materially that materialism is what that's come up several times the materialism will lead that does lead to because it has led to and this is where we are a kind of what I want to say a grimly metastasized capitalism where all that matters is that which can be measured and in science all that matters is that which can be measured of course that's

very that makes perfect sense no other science would be of any value of course conjecture will exist there but in this establishment of a society in the establishment of a culture and the establishment of a family if all of that matters is that which can be measured you will get individualistic materialistic ultimately nihilistic Pious moralizing but oddly unforgiving cultures with no real values we are seeing

it and I think my faith is my belief is that we need to reintroduce the mystery and I don't want it to be just like some sort of mad Dogma or some stupid thing that's used to make people feel bad about the way they are or who they have sex with or something I want it to be something that makes people be able to endure and

love and I feel that we need it indeed it is a scientific Endeavor because I believe people require it the results are everything I know what a tiger is I have no idea what a great spirit is um and so I would not be impressed if you said there was a great spirit in the room next door I would want to know what what it was

when you come on to um equating a scientific materialistic worldview with with materialism in the other sense materialism in the sense of a um a cheap sort of economically and only caring about money and and selfishness and things I don't own that I don't approve of that I don't have I don't feel that science that that should be laid at science is door science is bigger

than that more important than that um and um I think it's it's um disingenuous to suggest that the only the only escape from materialism in the demeaning sense in the economic sense is religion I think religion is is relatively um unequipped too small to deal with with these big big problems that would that we we're dealing with Beyond The Coincidence of their shared semantic term I

feel that there is a corollary between materialism in the two senses because I feel that the the second that's not um beat about the bush here secularism is predicated on the idea that the Abiding and dominant idea now is but the state is the um the ultimate Authority nothing to do with it what's got to do with the state what got to do this thing why

would you equate materialism with the state having it having Authority secularism and I'm saying that secular is like secularism yeah I say that you like that you with secularism we have to separate church and state we have to get religion out the bloody way and let the business of the state be the business of the state but somehow man worships even you know and I'm sure

for you this might be somehow hackneyed but you're pretty Evangelical and zealous and pretty devout and those things like that regardless of the object they're they're in interesting sort of qualities to have as a person anyway my point is this secular that materialism can lead to secularism that all that matters is that's what we can measure and what's rational let's get this Hocus Pocus crap out

of the way and get and build a lovely state right now let's get on with putting poor people in jail it is Richard that's what's happening well it's it if it may be happening there's nothing to do with it I mean it's nothing to do with secularism me okay we can certainly disagree on that I mean of course we can I'm not arguing yes yeah okay

yeah I'm saying what I'm saying is is that perhaps a way of sharing it like I feel that do you feel that Society is in trouble maybe I do yes yes right so what do you think the answer is well not religion well I do okay I know you're gonna have to somehow get along well let me know in the comments and chat what you thought

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