Regulation, NFTs, EIP1559, and the China CBDC

Welcome everyone to POV Crypto the only podcast of both big winners and a theory and a listen to. I am David Hoffman here with my buddy Christian, Christian. How you doing? What's up, dude? Long time no talk. Long time no talk. Two conferences, two almost two conferences ago. It's the last time we talked. Yeah, man. I know the fans are upset that we've had this massify

a dish, but shit. Your boys are fucking busy. Yeah, no, we got we got some media to produce. And this time the most recent conference was the Ethereum conference stuff, Bitcoin conference. Yeah, and the most recent David illness is COVID. COVID, not just in sniffles. Yeah, your boys got COVID. So I mean, I'm in quarantine. I'm going to get a test tomorrow. And if it comes

back a negative, your boys flying home, the San Diego, but other than that, I'm just locked up in the house that I started POV crypto in in the first place. So here we come full circle. Yeah, so David, how's the vid? I haven't had it. So I'm kind of curious. Well, I can only tell you how COVID is with the vaccine. I can't tell you what

it's like without the vaccine. And it was really achy as in like just I got really stiff. If you are a flexible person, you would very much have noticed your stiffness that you come out with COVID with. So that was definitely noticeable. Just like. I you know, when you like go to the gym really, really hard and then you're the next day you kind of move

around like an old man because you really sore like the set it was just like just a second day, it was COVID for me. And then also I'm going to get a test today. And then you know, you know, I'm going to get a test today, and then we're going to get a test today. And then you can go to the gym with your kids. And

then you're going to get a really achy eyes really sniffly on the first day. And other than that, not too bad. You lose your taste. I didn't lose my taste, but taste got different. So like the classic I and this was I was trying to figure this out. If I had COVID or not before I actually got tested and turns out I did I would like

taste some things and like I still can taste this but it tastes different. And it was to the point of like, is this placebo or is this not placebo. But yeah. So no, it didn't lose my taste. But it was really hard to get it. It was like different. All right, well, since the last time we talked a lot, she has happened other than you experienced

that. Yeah, I mean, what should we jump into? What's the first topic? Well, so where did we leave Bitcoin 20, 21 Bitcoin was doing modestly nothing in terms of price, I would say. Pretty much been flattened down. Yeah, everything is like. Everything is been flattened down except for the pie. It's this bike the last like three days or so or excuse me for it. Well, so

Ethereum is on its 13th green candle in a row. Is that true of the time? I think that's true. Yes, that's true. Up to the point of recording 13 great green candles in a row. And then Bitcoin has like nine out of the last like 13, which are also green. So a very, in my opinion, a very strong rejection of the quote unquote bear market. Not

necessarily not necessarily in the in validation of the crab market, but definitely of an in validation of like some prolonged bear market in my opinion. Yeah, it's hard to tell. It's hard to tell because like fees on Ethereum are cheap. The memples pretty much empty and pick it up. I mean, okay, they're picking up now with the NFT craze, but they got cheap. Like, you know,

like pretty much the blockchain. Like that's the real skin in the game. And obviously Ethereum, like, you know, things are happening on the market. On the blockchain a lot more, whereas like, you know, Bitcoin trading is happening. People are pulling things off the exchange. You know, there's there's only X amount of on chain like usage that's actually happening on the day to day. Comparatively and, you

know, you got to just look at what's happening on chain and that's telling you like the pulse, right? And when the excitement is gone, you know, there's just not that much zest on the blockchain. And that's kind of like the ultimate skin in the game to, you know, enthusiasm. And in the last like two weeks or so, we've seen gas prices spike to as high as

something like 3000 way is the highest screenshot that I've ever seen. At least for a single block. But then like for there was two or there was three times in the last five days where gas prices on Ethereum spiked over 1000 way each. And they were all NFT sales. So like one of them was like me look, who this is donor cats drop and then there

was a couple of other NFT sales that it was like things were. Things were quiet like we hit the low lows of like 10 way per block in Ethereum for a couple days in a row. And that's really when like the whole bear market conversation was at its peak. But people are so fucking weak. I'm sorry to. But God damn it. If you're listening to this

and you and you got scared out of your position, like you're fucking weak. You're weak. Jesus. I'm like the whole time I'm just sitting there like what is wrong with you people? And David's been consistent too. Like this is a bull market. Look at 2017 to 2013. Like I did get like shook a little bit when. Because like at some point markets in crypto have momentum.

And they stopped going up and they started going down. And so like I did get shook a little bit when I saw like things going down and then things going down more like it didn't shake me out of my position. It shook me. It shook me like emotionally. You can your conviction of you knowing that this is a bull market. No. So yes. So it did

shake me out of like, oh, I could see my I could see this going into like a 12 months long like boring time. I didn't know what a bear market looks like. I didn't think it would be a painful bear market. But I could definitely. But there was definitely a moment where I saw like 12 months of boringness ahead. And so I got shook that I

got shook like that, right. Didn't cause me to sell anything. Whatever. Sell. Sell anything. That'd be dumb. But I'm talking about conviction more than anything. Like I know. The conviction and the attitude on Twitter. Man, it was getting depressing. It was getting depressing. Yeah. Oh, if you're if you're if you got shook out of your conviction. And then you like contribute to the public discourse of

bearishness. I just have no respect for you. Just get the fuck out. Let's go. Week. Just go home. I'm sorry. You don't deserve crypto. You don't deserve Bitcoin. Just just either be bullish or go home. Like one of the two things. Yeah, it's like you have to be perpetually bullish. And I'm not telling you how to trade. I'm just saying about your mentality. Like your sentiment

for the future. If it's not perpetual bullishness, it's like, what the fuck? Oh my God. The funny thing is, it's like, like if some no one no one who's a newbie, like listen to P.O.V. crypto. P.O.V. crypto is not the first podcast that people listen to. But like the but if it was, they would be listening to that line of being like, who the fuck are

these? Guys, but all the but all the long-term veterans are like, oh yeah, people. People should people should go home. Like get the fuck out. It's like common sense. But I mean, there's a lot to be bullish about. But I would say, you know, despite the price declining, there's just been a lot of turbulence in the market as well. I mean, we you kind of did

bring up NFTs. Do we want to talk about that before we talk about, you know, I'm happy to talk about NFTs. So like, I mean, why tell me, tell me, I just want to understand, like, why are NFTs and why are like these NFTs in particular? Like the ones that, like this generation of NFTs on the theory? I'm like, why are they, do you think they're

going to be culturally timeless? I'm just kind of curious. Yeah. Because I feel like, like, I'm not even arguing that like digital, non-fungible things are going to be valuable. I'm kind of curious. Like, I don't know. Maybe I could do rare Pepe's is like the OG, but, you know, why, like, I guess these are pioneering a lot of stuff, but just give me the pitch. Rare

Pepe's as an NFT project. No, I don't know. I don't know what that is. So the NFTs, when we'll talk about that, what the NFTs that I have seen. Maintain life and expand on upon life as in like they have a kernel of life to them and it's growing and growing, growing are. Fall into two categories, avatar NFTs, which are NFTs that are scarce that you

can purchase and it works to put them as your avatar. So like crypto punks fall into these category into this category, board apes, boardy op-gleb falls into this category, cool cats are a rising rising NFT project. And these are probably like things that you can put as your avatar and as you're on Twitter in the digital world. And they all have attributes. And so like for

crypto punks, I have a crypto punk that has the attribute of like a knitted cap and sunglasses and a smile. And those are my crypto punks. Advertisers. And like this kind of same pattern. Just like, you have like multiple different features like eyeglasses or hats and smiles and and skin color. All the different attributes rotate and there's some sort of random generation. Those have done well.

And only only a very specific version of those. So like only a few projects like I, like I named. And then there's this other project. What's called art blocks, which is generative art as in the transaction that you make on the blockchain. That goes through an algorithm and that algorithm outputs an art piece of art. So you make the transaction and the transaction actually becomes the

art. And then, and then you can trade that those are the only two NFT projects that I've made. I've seen. Make it through like the quote unquote NFT bear market. However, the NFT bear market for out of the last like five months or so. If you were not paying attention to the NFT world, you called it the NFT bear market. If you were paying attention to

the NFT world, you called it the NFT Renaissance where like a bunch of shit projects that that came out of the any NFT mania actual mania just got just left. And just like people that like funded that market got burned. They just was too much over capitalization like too much excitement, too much energy. There was just a consolidation into actual quality. And so what people thought

what people what happened what that was was the quote unquote NFT bear market, which was really just like a consolidation to quality. That has basically converged into our our blocks, crypto punks. And then some flow over projects like board apes, cool cats and a few others. Basically core Ethereum NFTs have done really, really well like the basics, the OGs. And like, like my interpretation of this

is that there's the core Ethereum believers, the core people who will like have the eith to spend on NFTs. And a lot of these NFTs are inherently denominated in eith. These core people are seeing the writing on the wall in their opinions. And they're seeing Ethereum go through the motions and go through the steps to become the worldwide global value settlement layer of the internet. And

they are going long on that. And that vision by buying some core fundamental Ethereum cultural artifacts, which are the NFTs, the crypto punks. That's why that's why crypto punks might be led the mania this weekend. Three hours capital allocated to crypto punks. Some person bought a hundred crypto punks by sweeping the floor. So by spending over I think like 20,000 eith by buying all the cheapest

crypto punks. And so the and these people, these are the ones that are going to be the most important. They're not like the Bitcoin Maxis. These are not just like the institutional investors. These are people who got rich off eith, most likely. And they want or or defy apps. We saw like Hayden and Adams Robert Leshner by crypto punks. They want, they and crypto punks have

turned into this thing about like if you kind of like are an eith Maxi who have like gotten rich off of eith. Your brand is a crypto punk like that's what you do. And so like the crypto punks are like the eith Maxi brand. So everyone wants to like associate themselves with the protocol that they think is going to be the settlement layer for value over

the internet for the next like decade or century. And so they bought a crypto punks because that is like the cultural artifact that reflects that. And so and that kind of had to spill over into the rest of the NFTs ecosystem. And that all happened in like the last like 10 days or so. And it really came to a head this last weekend. And so while

people thought that it was an NFT bear market, it was actually an NFT land grab by the people that believed in them the most. I mean, that's kind of how markets work, right? But I mean, I would say like creative destruction is something that crypto brings back because there's no central planners or central banks to bail it out. And like, it's a beautiful thing like it

works. Right. The shit needs to be flushed out. Like that is healthy. But that never happened in the existing market. The existing traditional stuff. The system like they will not let it happen. They can't bear it. Let it happen. And now if it happens, everyone's wrecked. Everyone is completely obliterated. Right. And it's like, I don't know. I just like, you know, I don't even know if

I fully buy the NFT story. I do think it's super interesting to hear about Ethereum culture and representing a theory of culture and like crypto punks. It sounds like crypto punks is the real winner and also the thing that it's the safest winner for sure. And then like it also sounds cool. Like I mean, you know, I don't know. But I don't know what I'm going

to say about this, but I know this is a very interesting thing. I mean, I'm going to tell you that I'm going to tell you what I'm going to say about this. I'm going to tell you what I'm going to tell you about this. I'm going to tell you about this. I'm going to tell you about this. I like, you know, hashing, you know, you have

your transaction and then, you know, the NFT translates that into art. I mean, I, I guess I get it. What I do find that's interesting. And of what you said is like what is missing there is like artists making NFTs for the most part. Like maybe there's like artists have their own fame or artists that are like really, really iconic. But like you didn't say frickin'

people. Right. And I didn't hear people there. He was like the top. But he's not part of the story of these days, at least in the last of month or so. And it's just like that's interesting to me. But I would also say is like, okay, well, that like one thing that is like I like about like Bitcoin is it's money, right? And I mean, you

could argue that Ethereum is too. But like I feel like storing your value and money is an awesome thing because it's not fashionable. It's like something that's kind of like universally can be relied on. And like people was literally the top six months ago. And now you didn't even mention them once. So like, I just like I'm curious. Like in 18 months, like let's talk about

these things. Actually, as a store value, maybe crypto punks is different. It sounds like it has a lot of like OG ETH money in it versus like, you know, fresh froth money, which is what was happening during the first NFT kind of cycle in 2020 and beginning of 2021. But, you know, at the same time, I know a lot of ETH people that have dumped their

precious shit coins back in 2017 too. So. Well, I mean, Crypto punks came from 2016. So they're even earlier than the ICO mania. So they have more of a Lindy there. One thing I didn't know that about crypto punks. I didn't know that they're older than crypto kiddies. Yeah. That's that. I mean, that makes them cooler. And they're like, like crypto punks came out when when

Ethereum came out. Same year. That makes them. Yeah. So there's actually a significant overlap between like the story of the crypto punks and the story of Bitcoin, right? So started off completely worthless. You could mint a crypto punk for free. And just get it kind of like a faucet mechanism. And then a lot of crypto punks got lost to just like lost private keys, like perhaps

a third of them out of the 10,000 total. And then the 2017 ICO mania happened and then like crypto punks got their first like monetization event. And so they. So they actually got it started trading for actual ETH. And then the bear market to 2018 bear market came and again, they were worthless for two years. And only the core believers like would trade them. And they

were traded based off of their attributes, right? So like core Ethereum believers would trade these things for like a couple hundred dollars. It's like, Hey, like I have a hoodie with 3D glasses. I'm looking for like a big tail crypto punk with with sunshades. And so they would trade them around each other just trading off of the attributes. And then when the NFT mania picked up

again. And for the first time, that's when like they market value for crypto punks happened again for the second time after just being gears basically being zero. And then they picked up and picked up and picked up and now they're like this data symbol because like the cheapest crypto punk right now is like $90,000 or something. And so like they kind of have like this immaculate

distribution event where like first day was free. And no one got an end up. And then people forgot about them. And then years later, people returned to them after being forgotten for years. And then and then ascribe the market value, right? After like the the tourists of the less than the core believers stayed. And so it had this like immaculate conception story that to me it

feels very like synonymous with big ones. I mean, again, in the founding team made zero dollars. And the founding team made zero dollars, founding team made zero dollars. Yeah, I mean again, it sounds like it's they they are cool for sure. Definitely priced out of them personally. So not eth well. But let's let's flip it over to talk about the the ETH price. ETH BTC. Mm

hmm. I mean, in general. Things have been going up, but kind of on not a ton of excitement. I don't know. I just feel like we're kind of like in this like wave right now. And we're just kind of experiencing the wave. But the real up is is still not upon us quite yet. You're talking about the ETH BTC or prices in general. I guess just

prices in general, but yeah, what's your what's your take on how things are going? I don't even have a turn from me. I think that the we're still in the crab market and it's on the cusp of being invalidated. And if you look at the ETH, I'm kind of doing this for memory. If you look at the ETH US dollar chart, it looks halfway decent. If

you look at the Bitcoin dollar chart, it looks kind of flat. But if you look at the ETH BTC chart, it looks really awesome. And so I'm kind of conflicted by like an overall crypto. So still stuck in flat. Well, like the inside of crypto, like ETH looks really strong versus Bitcoin. At least, at least that's my take. We are currently at the I'm looking at

this right now. So this is accurate. We are at .0655 ETH BTC ratio. After breaking out of a descending wedge, if we want to get into the trader terminology. I'm like, already, even at the local lows of ETH or BTC, which is that .0555. ETH BTC is like really high historically. If you go all in, if you go to all time chart for ETH BTC .0555

is higher than roughly like 90 plus percent of time written the ETH BTC chart. And it looks really strong right now. Decent number of traders. I've seen like ledger and the the Duck man crypto done all both echoed bullish bullishness about this. That's particular setup. I guess I've never really been to one too much to ascribe too much value to charting. But it's the ETH or

BTC ratio is doing a very good job of not breaking down. And it looks like it's on the cusp of breaking up. Yeah. Not mean you're if you zoom out and you just look at the entire thing. You just see this pretty fucking insane cup, cupping pattern that starts mid 2018. And it's kind of like. Consolidating up here. I mean the reality is is Bitcoin sideways

and down and shit coins pumping slash NFTs in Vogue again is like very prime for ETH to make a move up. So I don't know. Like that's just kind of reality of a bull market is that. Things move up. And they move in waves and. I mean we'll see like if Bitcoin decides to change its mind and start searching. Then you know obviously has the ability

to suck the air out of any room. But. There has been. I just looked like what's going to be happening. Yeah. I don't know. There's been conversations with the brewing Bitcoin trade. We're like Bitcoin is this orically always been like the first one to move. And so. I mean after things get like latent for at least a while. Then like Bitcoin kind of becomes the shelling

point as in because everyone kind of looks at Bitcoin to break the trend right. And so if you're bullish. You buy Bitcoin because you think Bitcoin's going to be the thing to break the trend. Yeah. I mean for me like my strategy is I'm bullish. So I'm just always buying Bitcoin and I'm really not even looking at trading. And I'm just DCing and anything I think

is valuable. So you know I will sell ETH at some point depending on the ratio. But up until up until that point like you have a number for that point sir. I mean if you look at this chart 0.15 or sorry point. Yeah 0.15 is the top. Of the of the 2017 pump that the 2017 summer so. That's the flipping dude. What the flipping point. The

flipping happy it's like 0.1550. milestone with EIP 159 1559. I think it's a massive experiment. So a lot of sure if I bet to make the blockchain much better. Just be precise. Just be precise. The flipping is 0.16. Okay. Just be precise. So I mean yeah 0.1555 last last top of the last full market. If you sell ether right there you are literally selling the flipping

the flipping not happening is what you're doing. I mean Ethereum is not going to I mean it could be for a short period of time but I don't think I don't think it's going to be a sustained thing. I kind of that has always been my got to take for a while is that like the flipping will happen once and it'll be like a sell the

top event. And then it'll fall back down below it and then and then it'll flip it again and that'll be it. That's how that's always been my belief. I mean that that could be if there is a like oh it didn't work. But if there is a lot of evidence then it could but my fundamental belief is that Ethereum doesn't have the properties of Bitcoin. So

yeah well like Bitcoin doesn't have the properties of Ethereum. So yeah but if there is properties I don't think we'll look very good in this environment. And I mean we can talk about we can talk about what states are going to do to attack our networks. And I think we will wait in this conversation but you know Ethereum has always been kind of like this peacetime

blockchain and I think we can talk about this. I definitely think Bitcoin is a lot more of a wartime blockchain. I don't know what you're looking at moving forward but I'm seeing a lot of wartime. So I'm seeing a decent amount of wartime but here's my more recent updated take. Is that the Chinese bank central bank digital currency is a force to be reckoned with. The

United States government is doing fucking nothing about this issue about how awesome the fucking Chinese bank digital currency actually is. Both in terms of actually producing good for the world and being a really useful tool from the from for the CCP. Not CCP CCP CCP Chinese Communist Party Chinese Communist Party. It both does a lot of banking the unbanked and financial inclusion which are values that

everyone in crypto it leaves in. It already has done that or at least this story of an all of China. It has put China is like one of the most banked countries as it is. That's what this is what I'm talking about. This is what it was before it was a bank before the yes. Okay. So I mean tiny crypto coin. They're all on we chat

already. Yes. Everyone was KYC and and tracked by the Chinese party very competently. Yes. That's what you're saying. Yes. Yes. That's and also the net positive outcomes of putting a bank gal into everyone's phone has been an good for the cost that it's had which are which are significant. But no the crypto industry has not banked as many people as we chat and Ali Baba or

Ali Pay or whatever. And like twist an astonishing degree like not even a little bit. We recently did a podcast with this guy who wrote a book about called cashless and tells the story of the growth of the Chinese bank digital currency and talks about like the how just China gave a banking license to Ali Pay and we chat in that that is how we how

it's like if we gave like Amazon and Google and Facebook banking licenses and all of a sudden they put a bank account into like everyone's phones everyone's phones. There's nothing stopping them from doing that. You know it says. I mean there's very little stopping them from doing that there's Google Pay. Right except except for all the the monopoly like protections that we give banks to make

sure that they don't do that there's a ton of differences there. Yeah. I would say that banks have a little bit of more stake to try to leverage US government to protect their existing business models. A lot more stake. Yeah. And so the Chinese bank's digital currency is literally the 2.0 version of this thing that already worked really really well. And it's going to work even

better. The United States has no idea what's coming for it as totally unprepared. It just had like this seminar called crypto. What is it even good for like not even understanding that the fucking Chinese playbook for their CBDC was literally the signed by crypto and all the innovations that we've made in this industry in 2014 and 2015 they took the crypto playbook they applied it to

the central bank digital currency and now it's going to be one of the biggest forces that this whole entire world has to play with. And the United States government regulators are like having these fucking are just. Circling their fucking jerks like trying to like come up with something and they don't understand crypto they don't understand that literally the entire answer. To the Chinese bank digital currency

is D5 and they are trying to regulate it away inside instead of trying to adopt it and leverage it for their own benefits. That's why I picked. That's all Janet Yellen. You're going to have to educate me on the on the CCP digital currency because I'm extremely bearish on central bank digital currencies. I also bearish on China in the Chinese virtual currency. I think that there

are a bunch of things that I'm going to do. I think that's the central planners who are just you know they can't help but fuck themselves over. Look I am totally with you and I'm totally bearish on those same things for all the same things the same reasons you are and I'm bearish on their alignment with humanity. Yet I am also bearish on other humans alignment

with humanity. And the China trying to try to people just adopt these things no questions asked and we have to remember is like the whole concerns about privacy and security. They are very like first world United States western concerns the rest of the world. They are very not give a fuck. The Americans don't give a fuck. The world doesn't give a fuck. All of the negative

things that the corners would love to talk about the Chinese bank digital currency are valid and negligible for the rest of the world. That's not the reason I'm bearish. Why are you bearish? I just don't think they're going to pull it off. The Chinese have never been able to demonstrate power. They've been able to never been able to be a monetary authority in their history. They

got fucked because they thought that silver was the way to go. Guess what? They got fucked by harder money. And I truly think that this is going to be the case here. Okay. You can have a digital token that's associated with your WeChat. Okay. So they're going to ride on WeChat and Ali pays network effects. Is that the best that they got? Like that's not that

competitive. No, that's not what they're doing. But so I mean educate me please because you know what I'm saying is like they're practicing air drops. Okay, they did you have some centralized network effects already? They have their captive population, which they're actively making poor and unhealthy. They're actively going to be getting worse and worse in terms of demographics against the rest of the world. And the

rest of the world has Bitcoin and crypto. So like when's this when's this thing going to ship and where the fuck is Bitcoin going to be when it actually does ship? I'm like tell me why I shouldn't be bearish. It sounds like you had a conversation with someone who knows more than me. Yeah, the conversation of when China ships like that. Should be pointing to the

United States like China ships dude. They are known for shipping when when when is this thing happening and where literally literally 20 answer 2022 as a conversation with the sky Richard turret 2022 and then fucking smart contracts in 2024 and 2025. And so like I don't see any reason to be skeptical by that the Chinese central bank digital currency isn't going to roll out exactly as

they expected to. And not only that it's not even for China. It's for like the global for global trade in the Eastern hemisphere. It's like the all all the Asian countries and decent number of the African countries and a decent number of the Middle East countries are would love to use it Chinese bank digital currency to facilitate trade. So why would a current why would a

country that has its own monetary sovereignty use another country's currency. Because of the because of network effects like the ease of use of the Chinese CBDC and the seamlessness of the of the transaction in the ease of what the US having into the into the network is so incredibly easy that there's going to absorb what's the US for your look. What's the UX going to look

like if you have to KYC because I don't think the Chinese. I don't think the Chinese are very. You only have that work. You only have to KY you can accept like me. So if you have a legal amount like the average person can can go and just be a part of the network permissionlessly without having to KYC which is the crazy thing like if you

are a larger like if you're a business you do have to KYC but if you're a business you're happy to. I mean if you're a business if you're a legal business you're KYC. Yes. In whatever country. Yeah. For the most part. Yeah. But how cool is that like as a individual you can accept and send money without having to register with the CC food. I don't

know and I don't think they're going to do that. Like I think that's what the guy said who lives in Shanghai. He's probably spreading this weird propaganda. Okay. Well he wrote a book called Cashless Richard turn. You can read it. Is it is it praise as a concept that is it praise what the Chinese Communist Party has done. I mean in a relatively fair level I

would say. Did you compare the unbanked to the percentage of people that use Cash because like Cash permissionlessly banks a lot of people. I mean he lives in China so no one uses Cash there. But I mean like in terms of like the world on the percentage of the population you know that could use Cash like Cash is more effective at banking the world. The majority

of the world it's I don't know about you but I'd rather fucking KYC than use Cash. Yeah. Well that's why you're an e-ped. Okay. That's why you're a big corner. Yeah well I mean again you're looking you're looking at this world where you know every single large country is going to be just trying to constrain and constrain their population and control their population and you're the

fact seems like you're the only one. E-ped like E-ped has the same values of permissionlessness that you do you think Bitcoin does. It definitely does not and it definitely does not have the same values of Val verify and run your own hardware. And it definitely doesn't have the same I would say what's the word just adversarial thinking. There's a lot of there's there's a lot of

the narrative itself. Inferrantisement that Bitcoin thinks that it has it doesn't actually have. Okay. Well despite that I do think that freedom and open markets in the long run are more effective and I personally again based on what I can see from what all central banks are central bank digital currencies are doing essential bankers are saying that they're focused on singularly payments and on top of

that they're not going to ship they're going to try all this like weird stuff like air drops are going to try all this little thing. It's not going to really catch on unless they force their population and move to the market. They're going to do it and then even still why would other countries opt into it because they give up so much they give up their

monetary sovereignty. And you know there is the Belt and Road effort and you know some of those people might be required to use it but even still like I just don't see the Chinese having a greater monetary effects than the existing dollar system and they definitely don't offer a ton of advantages in terms of in terms of good money. You know this thing is for sure.

They're going to like force you to spend it. It's for sure not going to have a hard like a hard cap. It's for sure going to enable them to print as they need. So it's just like there's so many negative things in contrast to Bitcoin and Ethereum and dogecoin if you will because you know at least dogecoin. You know it doesn't have some central planner that

can decide to just print it out when they want. So I mean I just see these these central bank digital currencies alongside real cryptocurrencies and they just go back to the market. You can't compete again like where are they going to be like okay it's a relationship between 22 all right well Bitcoin is going to be six months older and have six months longer to spread

across the globe. Same with Ethereum same with dogecoin same with you know fucking Tron and tether which is way more dominant than any of this CBDC stuff as it is. I would definitely agree that the rollout of CBDC is just not going to happen. Except for China like every other country that's experimenting with CBDC is just not going to do it. So we can't find reasons

to not do it and half of those reasons are going to be apathy. China is going to do it. China is absolutely going to do it. And while we all think that like the United States regulators are like the final boss is actually going to be convincing people to not use the Chinese CBDC and instead use open permissionless payment rails like Bitcoin and Ethereum. That's that's

actually the challenge that we have on all the US regulators like I said are just like making a big joke about themselves. There's your joke 99% of regulators are jokes including Chinese regulators. So they will make mistakes are going to continue to make mistakes and guess what doesn't make mistakes the market in Bitcoin. So I think control the market. I truly think that tether is going

to be have a much much bigger footprint than any CBDC ever gets and that's tether. Tether is current forever. Yeah. I mean tether as it is right now is a really good thing. It's already pretty fucking dominant. Yeah. I think you are underestimating what the Chinese CBDC can do. You should listen to the podcast. Come that a week from today. All right. I will. Well speaking

of the Chinese they they forced out a lot of hash rate. A lot of Bitcoin hash rate. I think it's a massive blunder again speaking of central planners fucking up. They had if they really wanted to attack the network. You can't just keep the hash rate there and you take over the machines. You don't unplug them. You don't kick them out. You don't kick out those

businesses. So Kazakhstan's over flooded US and Texas is taking as much as it can. And we're just seeing this outflux of hash rate. And now we're starting to see that hash rate come online again. So you know 180 ex a hash drop all the way to around 90 ex a cash and now we're back up to 100 ex a hash. Curious if you've been following what's

been happening. I mean, yeah, I've been following maybe not to the end degree, but that there's been an ex a out of China started to reestablish it elsewhere. I think we all you you know you're definitely an agreement that like any amount of Bitcoin adversarial and this is a negative over the long term. But like the fact that this has actually happened would you say would

you if you could roll it back before trying to the China made this ban and instead found the world we're trying to did make the ban would you or would you actually say like this actually event is actually good for Bitcoin. Well, they're probably banning this because they're going to go all in on their CBDC, which is them fucking themselves. They had all the. Yeah, but

I don't think that's true though, because they didn't ban Bitcoin. They just banned Bitcoin mining. I think it was environmental concern. Even more now they get to fuck themselves even harder. Great. They banned it in completely hydro areas too. A lot of it is they just want to show that they're controlling the grid that they get to choose what the grid does. And their province managers

also want that and they want to make sure that their you know leaders see that they're in control. Yeah, well it's probably good that they like that Bitcoin is gone with the volatility of the Chinese regulators already like I mean it's that over. Very it is very good for Bitcoin. I mean at the same time you you get to see how anti fragile Bitcoin is that

you lose 50% of the hatch rate and this the system is still clearing blocks a success factory level. I mean it was actually pretty impressive. Now there wasn't really an attack on Bitcoin. That was a peripheral event. Whatever. I mean again like Bitcoin is this thing that was in a fragile state, right? Like 60% of the hatch rate is in China. It could have been you

know let's let's say attacked. And now like you know there's this saying in Bitcoin that you as long you can sit along like Bitcoin can sit along with the river long enough and at some point it will see all of its enemies flow down the river dead. Like it just has to wait out people killing themselves. And I think that this is an example of the

Chinese, the Communist Party, they had a position of power where they could have subdued an enemy to their sovereignty an enemy to their cryptocurrency an enemy to their world dominance. And they fucked it up. They fucked it up. And now it's going to be much harder for them to do it. And I'm sure that they're going to have a lot of money. They had a lot

of eat hash rate in there as well. I'm sure they had a lot of eat in China. And what did they do with that? You know some of the biggest Bitcoin miners are also massive eat whales. So if you bullish in Ethereum China fucked up there too. So like why are you bullish on their central bank digital currency? Like they're fucking up in the real markets

that matter. They're actually going to compete. I think you well to go back to the central bank digital currency thing like. I think you have to have like a really optimistic view of like generalized community. To to think that like humanity is going to give a fuck about the difference between the Bitcoin or the central bank digital currency. People just want to. I think you'll just

be poor if you don't use Bitcoin. Like you're going to use principle shit money. When the best money in the world is available that you can opt in to take you are over allocating how good Bitcoin is for poor people. It's not that good for a popular. I mean, Fia and and central bank controlled currency is even worse for them. It makes them identify themselves to

get it. To get access to it. It has massive permissions around it. And it taxes them to the greatest degree. Most unbanked people are unbanked because their government fails to do so. It's a display of their government incompetence while forcing that, you know, to be banked to identify yourself as a Bitcoin the 21 million hard cap is not going to do much for poor people. How

about that? Dude, you can buy one sat right now. And guess what? They can't get printed on. And they can do it from their wallet. What are you talking about? Why is it in out? Why is time? Why did the president of Al Salvador? Why would the president of Al Salvador, you know, open his arms up and say we're going to do this? If he didn't

already see progress, those are super poor people. No, I don't think so. But he does have Bitcoin. I think that's a not 100% of the rationale, but like it could be it could be over 50%. You know, we see communities in Al Salvador. They're adopting Bitcoin. There's a lot of people are being real about it. You know, it's all over the world that are adopting crypto

puns. I can go and find any sort of like academic paper to put it in the world. I can't prove anything like that. Yeah. Okay. And academic paper is different than a nation state put in their skin in the game and making Bitcoin legal tender. It's not an easy. It's a it's a guy who leads a nation state. And so therefore, it's a nation state. But

if we want to be clear about something, it's not like a whole country came together and be like, we love Bitcoin. It's a guy. Totally. No, it's a guy pushing things forward in this country with after he saw it in the world. In practice, we're not talking about Twitter. And we're not talking about, we're not talking about academic papers. The Indians are all about academic papers.

Bitcoin. The Indians are not about academic papers. That's Cardano, bro. If there is, okay, name one relevant academic paper that a theory is like. I'm pretty sure that you talked about the academic paper about the person. There's a good. There's a good. So it took me like three seconds. Fuck here. 80 name another one. I mean, what Vitalik himself writes tons of academic papers. There's tons

of academia is within Ethereum all the time. Even this Justin fellow who comes onto your podcast. And yeah, who and just spills a ton of freaking propaganda and fun against Bitcoin and how it actually works. Was the was to say that I'm a researcher. I'm doing all this like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're theorizing that EIP 159 is going to do all these fantastic things.

We're theorizing that proof of stake is going to do all these fantastic things. We're theorizing that acic resistance is this fantastic thing. You know, and guess what? Your research and your theories and practice. A lot of times I've been falling flat. You know, like what has acic resistance done? It's just fucked up the GPU markets. It hasn't really even like prevented centralization in any meaningful way.

You know, the real centralization factor. I mean, so I've always been where electricity happens. The Chinese hash rate for Bitcoin was four times as large as the ones for Ethereum. I mean, asics in China, they're bringing produced in China and now they're getting spilled across the world. So end result is now there's asics across the world. And no one can make them is very easily. Was

that because it was centralized in China or wasn't centralized in China? I'm not sure. I mean, the real centralizing factor, which I was saying before you interrupted me, is where the resources are. So at least Bitcoin had a natural market that emerged that didn't interrupt other markets. Did you get this from an academic paper or from a Bitcoin podcast? That the real limiting factor, centralizing factor

for mining is natural resources. Yeah. That one. I mean, that is the reality. I mean, Bitcoin podcast articles. What the community is putting out academic papers? I mean, dude, the what Bitcoin is doing. Is absolutely not being led by like academic papers. These are like community oriented practitioners who are putting out their thoughts and research out into the public. That's absolutely. I mean, and I'm not

saying that that doesn't happen. I'm not saying that that doesn't happen within Ethereum, but Ethereum is much more of a research driven academia based project. And it has a lot more precedence on models. And it has a lot more precedence on these like models of things. In Ethereum, we make fun of the say, we're going to make, we're like, I am you making fun of other

people make who are talking about. Well, yeah, there's we just pass it down the line. Yeah. So, but yeah, there's there's this fractals of, you know, how Bitcoin you are. So obviously, Cardano's less Bitcoin in Ethereum and Ethereum's less Bitcoin. Bitcoin. So, you know, in the Bitcoin ecosystem, you're, you're just, you know, slightly less Bitcoin. The mistake being using Bitcoin as the actual anchor of validity

here. I mean, that's always been the crux of the podcast, right? Yeah, that's right. So, before we punch each other in the face, let's talk about this infrastructure bill. Because I think that we can absolutely agree that it's absolutely in sync with Warren, my best friend. I mean, I hope you can speak to the progressives that think that open markets and crypto are bad for the

world. No, like Elizabeth Warren would have been like, I joke on this on the bank this show. I was big, big, big Bernie bro and then after the he, well, first off, it was big Yang guy guy and then big Bernie bro, but Elizabeth would have been third. But it was Bernie than Yang. No, no, it was Yang and Bernie. Yang got kicked out first. Yeah,

but I was before that you were Bernie. Oh, yeah, before Yang was even a thing. I was a Bernie bro. So, so first was Bernie and I just know you that long. I just know. Yeah. But in the most recent election, it was Yang then Bernie. But Elizabeth would have been third is the whole point of this. And every single time that Elizabeth Warren opens her

goddamn mouth about crypto, I just want to do things I shouldn't say. And it's very, very frustrated. But when she opens her mouth about taxes. I just live with it. I just bend over and take it. She says some pretty evil things about taxes. Yeah, I mean, it's not like we don't have a tax and wealth distribution problem. So let's not pretend that. Wealth should be

in a wealth tax. I don't know about that. A wealth tax means that without any sort of realizing it, you're taking from people just because they live in your country. Yeah, there's a lot of people out there that are suffering. They're suffering because of the fiat system and all of those things were like, I believe in the tax a new tax system that might include a

wealth tax while simultaneously also believing in a new system that can actually like deliver that value, which maybe is fucking naive. One of those things were like, I kind of have to subscribe to both. And both never works. Yeah, okay. So we're talking about Elizabeth Warren. We're talking about the infrastructure bill. It's not even worth talking about Elizabeth Warren because the real enemies here, at least

the people who have actually put this language into it is the treasury and decenneter from Ohio. So I forget his name. But I don't want to effectively what they're trying to do is they're trying to pass a massive, I think it was a $4 trillion infrastructure bill. Am I incorrect on that? What? How big is the infrastructure bill? I don't know. So I'm going to look

it up. Okay. Apple is about $2 trillion. They're going to spend 60% of Apple. I don't think they're going to make 60% of Apple's value to the world. Out of that 1.2 trillion, they're claiming that they're going to retrieve. Point, they're claiming they're going to retrieve 52 billion in taxes that they're going to find by cleaning up the system. And they're going to get 38 billion

of that from crypto. No. That's a good idea. And to do that, they are redefining everything as a broker. So that way they all, you know, a node, a minor, a staker. Everything is a broker. And they're going to have a lot of money. They're going to have a broker. And therefore, everything has to report to the IRS. And that's how they're planning on collecting $38

billion over, I think, 10 years, over 10 years, or something like that. There's so much of people who like didn't realize how large of a cohort, the American crypto population is, who thought that they could just like get this political W by seeking this in. But no, but the thing is it's like they're like the logic here. It doesn't even make sense. It's not even a

drop in the bucket of the total budget. That's why they talk about the future. There's massive thing. And it just it's not like you're not even going to collect any real like just print that dude. You're like every day or they're actually going to get less money by doing this bill because they're just going to like actually define the laws that people have to route around

to avoid them. It's like, oh, you're you're you're going to tax me on anything I ever do. I guess I won't do anything. And then Elizabeth Warren comes in and and tax your wealth that you know. So it's a double whammy. They fucking tax your money that you're trading, even if it's B2B and they tag you know like whatever. Um, to you can't trust these government

officials. All they're trying to say is your stuff is actually our stuff until it's all our stuff. Like more or less. The sovereign individual is like it's employees that are just trying to continue to be employed and grow their budget like every organization. It just happens to be the organization that has a lot of monopolies. So it's pretty unhealthy. That's why to some degree like not

only on money printing, monopoly on a lot of things. I have to like not only on your on your health apparently too. Manopoli on choosing how you what you do to your body. You know, there's a lot of monopolies apparently here in this organization is just sucking in resources and trying to mess with crypto. And that's to some degree like why I do have to say

like thank you to people like Jake Schrovinsky for fighting this fight, but also just like it doesn't it doesn't matter like it's not going to go through. And even if it does go through like there's going to be just enough of like a populace pushback from like inside the crypto where they're all just figured out. Like it's not going to. It's not a man. I don't

think so. You don't agree with that. Passive a stake. Well, to think that it's not going to go through is going to be tough because this is like the one line in a massive bill that is like a foundational part of Biden's first term. You know, he's like I'm going to come in. I'm going to pass a stimulus bill that's going to bring all these jobs

back and save the planet. Right. That's his thing. That's this. Like we are literally like this is a massive elephant. And then someone's like, oh, let's just put crypto on the bottom of his foot while it's stampeding through. Right. Like that's why I don't believe it. It was so tough. It was actually like put in there. Then it can so trivially be taken out again. Yeah,

but the treasuries who put it in and the treasury is by the interministration. Yeah. They're trying to get as much of their agenda into this as they can. They're not reason for them to attack crypto. Yeah. No, that's warrants angle apparently too. Right. It's like she believes in a CBDC. And so she wants to get crypto. Of course, they of course she does. She wants a

surveillance coin that she can tax everyone with. Of course she wants it. She wants to tax you more. What I would say the Warren is like what percentage of your deficit is our entire GDP? And how have you not been able to deliver what you're promising with that? Like Jesus Christ, how much do you need to spend to deliver anything? Hmm. Yeah. The problem is like

people who want to make that point have already given up and they don't attend places that they could yell at. It was with Warren about that. Yeah. Well, thankfully crypto makes easier for them to move the Bahamas or Turks and Kekos or wherever else has some better, better laws. That's well, I mean, again, that's the whole point of the sovereign individuals. You know, these organizations is

literally need to brain drain themselves in order to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to drop what they're doing. Right. They're going to brain drain themselves. Man, the US Europe, dude, Europe and Canada are brain draining themselves as we speak. Like it's, it's Australia too. I mean, definitely. It's what is happening? Like these, these populations, like the best, the best, the brightest, most bobble, the youngest, most

attractive, they're going to, which just go leave. Mm hmm. They're going to leave. Yeah. Need to steal with his BS too. Yeah. I heard for the young boy, boy, shine, bullish on Central America. Yeah. Thanks. Oh, is that, is that the shilling point of places where people want to go? Where you just say, is the Valsavil or? No, this is my take is the places that

have like the best weather, most natural resources and the least competent governments have the most again. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, with that. So South America, Central America, looking really good, very incompetent governments. I've always wanted a property in Argentina. That sounds fun. Yeah, well, give Argentina a little bit longer to completely crime. Yeah, that's a little bit more humble. And then maybe that's the next,

that's the next spot, man. You have some Thai Sargentina. Yeah. So call again. Alright. Yeah. Let's, I've been renting pretty hard here. All right, guys. You can follow the podcast at POB Crypto Pod. You can follow me at Trestlist State, both on Twitter and on Bangladesh Christian. We just start pointing out inconsistencies and we need to start standing up for, for, you know, humanity in my

opinion, and what's right in freedom. And big coin in crypto is part of that. So, you know, these central bankers and these politicians, they're always going to say, it's for your own good, we're going to help you trust us. We need this power. We need to tell you what to do. We need to cacks all your currency. We need to know exactly how much you have

at any time. You need to use a currency that we control. So, that's not going to stop. So, be vigilant out there. Follow me. I see you can just go to Snarks. Follow Bitcoin Magazine. I Bitcoin Magazine. And then give us a strap star reviews at POB Crypto Pod. Only podcast that Bitcoiners and Appearance Listen to. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.