Phoenix: Joey Logano on a supremely confident championship run; what happened with Chase Elliott and Ross Chastain; whats 2023 hold for NASCAR and Next Gen Year 2

Greetings. Welcome to the Gasparfaxi podcast. I'm your host Nate Ryan here on the Wednesday after the season finale. I'm on camera, but not on camera in the traditional way. Parker Kligerman has joined me as my guest. Yeah, I go check out Parker Kligerman's YouTube channel for some exciting V-logging that I'm unexpectedly avoiding maybe calling it a funny. Yeah, vlog. So normally this would be on camera

before NASCAR America. No NASCAR America motormouse today. So instead, Parker and I are doing this old school. I am recording solely the audio version of the NASCAR NBC podcast, which I normally do as like a simulcast sort of thing, but in this case, it will be no on camera version, just me and Parker in the studio talking it out. Phoenix Raceway, the season finale. Parker was

there. I was there. Joey Ligano wins the 2022 championship. And this worked out well, Parker, because you had Joey Ligano's pit as one of the NASCAR NBC pit reporters this past weekend. And you noticed it too as well. I'm sure the swagger, the confidence he had pretty much all weekend, even before he won the pole position. When did you first notice it? When did you see

it? I noticed it when I talked to Paul that Wednesday before the weekend. And once I got assigned, I talked to Paul and I've talked, I know Paul really well. I was a test driver for him on the Xfinney program when he was at Penske with Brad when they first came in together. I was the, you know, like the back of driver. I did all the

practice and qual finds when Brad couldn't make it with Paul's. I've known Paul really well. And I did, I was their test driver when they won the championship in 2012 on the two car, no light car. So I know Paul and I know how on edge, she can be. And when I spoke to him for 30 minutes on Wednesday, it was just like, when we won

Vegas, we went to work on Phoenix the next day. And I'm telling you part of her, we are prepared. And he just kept saying we are prepared. And I'm just like, all right, he doesn't usually say that, right? Like it just, he just kept really leaning into that. And then I saw Joey's comments at media day. And it was like, oh, these guys are, they've beaten

everyone before it, you know, they've shown up. And it just mentally, you could tell that they were just in a different space than the others. And their confidence was booming. And so I just thought that continued until I interviewed Joey for qualifying. And well, actually, I'm going to go back to practice. I saw they weren't as good. Maybe they were, they were good on the long

run. You could see it, but they weren't as good. Maybe it's the nine or the one. And then the 12 car though was a rocket ship in practice, if you remember. And I thought, huh, they talk about being prepared, doing all the stuff. The 12 cars been knocked out. I wonder if the 12 cars, you know, got something different. So of course, they did a little

bit. And then on the next day, I interviewed Joey before he goes on qualifying, I said, well, you be satisfied with what helps you towards this, you know, win the championship. And he said, first, I'm going to win the poll. I'm like, okay, that's confidence. What does he do? He wins the poll. And then I was told that the two setups between the 12 and the

22 were almost very similar. And I have to think that was a little bit of the 12 was set up in a way, just trying something in practice that they saw and liked because Joey and him Paul talked about it forever after practice. And I saw and so it just kept building until I was like, and I think it was in most of my reports before

the race. And when we did reports during the race, I was like, this team has mentally been the champion since, you know, since Tuesday. And it's up to everyone else to take this championship from them. And no one rose up. I noticed it right away on media days. Well, I was in the NBC room and asking questions of each of the four championship contenders as they

came in. And no disrespect to Chase Elliott, Christopher Bell, Ross Chastain, but the demeanor, the body language, the way he answered the question, Joey Logano just, he was in a different plane than these guys. It was hard to explain, but just the first question we asked each of these guys was, what does it mean to be here and have this opportunity to race for the championship?

Something you normally expect a driver to answer, oh, it means the world, you know, this is what we're all building for. Everybody gave that answer except for Joey, who's Joey's answer was, it means nothing. And that was how he started the interview. And like, there were like five other people in the interview. And everybody's like, ears perked up and says, like, what's happening here? And he

just continued to parlay this. And I don't think he was playing mind games the way we've seen Tony Stewart do with Carl Edwards in 2011 or Kevin Harvick has done it with several drivers, not just in the playoffs, but just in general. But he definitely took advantage of the fact. I mean, he said Sunday night, after one that was racing the championship, that I could tell

that some guys were just happy to be here. And obviously there are two guys who had been making their first appearance Christopher Bell and Ross Chastain. How did you, I mean, because you're aware of that your driver, if you have full time X-Madee series driver again next year, you're aware of those mental games get played. How do you think Joey Ligano kind of used those edges?

Because he doesn't do it in a real over way like other guys do, but clearly he took some confidence from it. Yeah, I think he just leaned into like, I know exactly what to do. I've been here before. I've done it. I've got two of them beat on that fact. And I believe I have a faster, better car than the nine, which they, you know, Penske

also believe that short tracks have been a strength for them this year. And that Paul mentioned that and that he and Joey were really confident about their package on the short tracks, which they consider, you know, Phoenix, maybe a little bit of a hybrid, but they consider a short track package. So I think he wasn't, you put it, it wasn't mental games. It wasn't like, you

know, ribbing of the others and like poking fun or even focusing on it. It was like, they don't even exist. That was the other thing. It was like, it was just, I'm so confident there is not three others here. Yeah. Like I didn't even, I don't even know who you're talking about. Yeah. You could put Dillard Hart, David Anderson, Bobby Allison there. I'm still going to

win the champion. What didn't matter? It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't, I guess we're here. We're going to be the best. We are the best team. They made the pick crew change, replacing their Jackman, Braxton Brandon, who had been with Paul since he been in cup. Braxton, I've no Braxton forever. He, Graham Stoddert, was putting that position. They did that right before Martin'sville. They went

from being Athon average to having the fastest pick crew via their numbers at Martin'sville. So that was another confidence booster. So they walked in there with what they felt like would be the fastest car, which they proved to be besides maybe them or the 12, but their team, Penske was the fastest team at Phoenix. They have the most confident driver who says he knows exactly what

to do and how to drive that place in 2020. The chip chip, they got away. Another part of it, right, where he felt like he was the best. And you got a pick crew that they feel like is the fastest picker in a race where the only thing Paul Wolf said to me, he was worried about was the pits and the variables around that. And he

said, this is the only way we lose. That was in our quote. The only way we lose this chip chip is that we screw up with the pits. They felt like they had everything ready prepared and obviously they had that time. And so, you know, Joey called Vegas the most important race, you know, of the season besides Phoenix. When I was having the first meetings of

my team for Xfindi this week, I sat down with our GM and everyone, I said, Hey, look, this is how I look at things, blah, blah. And I said, by the way, Vegas, that's the most important race in the year. Like when we get to the playoffs and I think I was like, that I'm telling you, I know I've seen this now from the TV side

multiple times. What that allows these teams to do is unbelievable. And put aside just the mental side of you're all prepared. You're doing things. Think about the 20 Christopher Bell who gets through at Martinsville. Then Monday morning, I was like, Oh my gosh, we're running for a championship. There's no way there could be this prepared. In an era where the car is all the same, it

comes down to your people execution preparation. So I just think they had to beat that way. And two things to fall upon there. One, the pit crew change because you mentioned that Jackman had been with Paul Wolf since he'd been a cup crew chief, which would have been 2011, more than 10 years. Yeah, they've been to get it a long time. It was a very emotional

change for Paul. Yeah. Yeah. That seems like a really significant, I want to say risky. But to make that change with two races of the year and a season when you're locked in the championship for and you don't want to disrupt that chemistry, but obviously it worked. Graham came from the 12 car. You know, it just worked. And Paul talked about a little bit after I

asked him after the race. We did our interview on the post ratio. It was my second question was, Hey, you know, your picture was flawless. They never made a single mistake. When it counted, they got you out with you need to be, you know, that's exactly what you'd ask from a pick crew. But, you know, going into this, you guys had to make a change. It

was a tough change. He got very emotional about it. You know, in terms of just Brax segment is a friend of his and so on. He's had a lot of success with and won a prior championship. And so, but he was like, you know, we just got to do its best for the team and a change had to be made. So it's tough. And you mentioned

that Lugano had said, so the most important race before Phoenix was that Vegas win. And that is interesting. The Parker because like I get the rationale behind it. I get the logic behind it. We've certainly seen there have been other instances where the guy wins what was then the opening round of eight race with Martinsville would win the championship. Lugano did it, made team up. Jimmy

Johnson did it in 16. But I guess I sort of fell for the narrative that the next gen might alter this equation because teams aren't building their cars. You don't have as much opportunity to maybe tailor make your car to Phoenix. But I guess it doesn't really matter in a sense because it's still just, if you can just spend that much time just on setup stuff,

forget about having autonomy over the entire car. It still makes a difference. And even just preparation of like how you tackled a weekend, right? And how you, you know, what do you start doing? Simuize. You could start two, three weeks ahead. Everyone's working on sim. You know how correlates really well. You can start working on the idea of one of your teammates is going to run

this alternate setup idea that you can't run because they're not going to be a part of it. You know, like I just think those things compound where I know you can't build your own stuff right now. But it's then it comes down to the tiny things, right? Because everyone's running damn same lap time. It's such minute small things that make huge differences. Yes, it's different maybe

in how you get an advantage. But I think the advantage is the same. If that makes sense, you can't build the car differently anymore. Like you could three or four years ago, you would build a trouble throw down Phoenix car. You know, maybe it's got some sort of weight distribution difference or something you've done different. And now, yeah, you can't do that. But it's the small

stuff that adds up to create the same gap. Exactly. And that's where it makes a lot of sense to me. It's counter-intuitive to think about it first. But it kind of goes to this broad industry wide NASCAR discussion we've had in recent years about it as the cars have become more common or whatever. And they're working in smaller and smaller areas. If you can find the

edges in those smaller areas, it's actually going to mean like a bigger advantage. So the next gen in the sense, maybe it does limit the areas that teams are working on to just set up suspension stuff. But the stuff, I'm sure that Paul Wolfe and the 22 found the other teams probably weren't going to be able to find in the time they had to prepare. He's

nobody locked in before Martin'sville. Yeah. It was the other thing. Yeah. So Joey Lugano said that he was treating this like the most important race of the year, Phoenix. And every other driver we talked to tried to pass it off as just another race. And I think this was another advantage for Lugano. Those media day interviews, he was saying, Hey, this is not just another race.

You have to treat this as if it's the biggest race of the year. I know you didn't have Chase Elliott, Christopher Bell, Ross Chastain. But did you see things from those drivers that indicated, especially in the case of Bill and Chastain being in the championship round for the first time, that maybe they were a little bit overwhelmed or kind of trying to find their footing up

until race day. You know, I didn't particularly notice anything that stood out to me. You know, I look for that in practice often where I notice, you know, where I want to race. And the next week, all the eyes are on you or it's the, you know, I've been in a championship fight before where things start to sort of the focal point starts to point you

a little bit. And you know, there's more tensions, there's more cameras around you, so and so forth. And at the championship week, you know, I love that practice because you've never seen more cameras, more reporters, more people around those four cars during practice and fans lining behind. But when I saw Ross walk out and you know, I looked for like their body language. I've seen years

where I came a couple years ago where Denny looks so stiff around. I was like, he's beat. I mean, I mean, Denny, I mean, Denny was my pick the way the championship this year. He's always saying her. He always will be. It's his year until it's not. I mean, Denny, if he doesn't win one, he'll go down right there with Mark Morton's one of the greatest

drivers never win a championship. But yeah, so I look for all that stuff. I didn't see anything that really stuck out, you know, and Ross looked pre-layed back. The track house team has had so much attention on them. I think they were used to it. It was just another thing. You know, I didn't see any particular practice. He went P1, right off the bat. I mean,

shows preparation, show it up, you know, just knew how to rip a lap off right away. So to go to your answer to your question, no, I didn't see anything. The one instance in which we saw championship contenders get together during this race was Ross Chastain and Chase Elliott. And that was interesting how both reacted to it. Chase replayed it. It seemed like Overnor Regan in

the car. He was asking his team on the radio to do anything wrong. And then afterward, despite many questions and much prompting, he sort of refused to take a stance on it. Eventually said that he thought what Ross had done was unnecessary, but he didn't really blame it. And Chastain was very much the way Ross is all the time. Like I saw a gap. I took

it and he moved down too late. Sorry, don't come across my nose when I'm trying to pass you on the inside. That's on you. How did you see that incident? So I actually think the incident itself is part of 5050 just like the way that all designed and the restart and the dog leg and the angles. I feel like what Chase was doing was what everyone

had done all three races all weekend. Where Ross had done was pretty normal. I think particularly maybe you could say like, hey, when he's coming across you like that, some guys would be like, hey, let's just lift here for a second. You're discretion is a better part of hour. He's just sort of plowed through it or even tried to steer left a little bit, you know,

to avoid him hitting him, but he didn't do that either. He just kind of held the ground. Yeah. That's Ross. So I could see that a little bit. I think, you know, you still would add contact, but you probably could have had a result where the nine doesn't spin across his nose. The other thing that was interesting is how the one was there because how early

it was in the restart. So we do a competition call of NASCAR every Sunday morning before the broadcast. And, you know, there was that close call between tiegames and with Riley Herbstair, where he kind of went below before the line. Right. Right. It was sort of a judgment call and they admitted it is a judgment call and they admitted that because of the how that's all

at an angle and it's sort of awkward how that works at Phoenix where the start finish line is. It's got to be a judgment call because it can't be other places where it's sort of straight. And there's a line right there. And so if you go below that line that you're obviously down, bounce because the other thing is that he's like, you know, because there's a

shortcut, you're supposed to reference off the cars in front of you and not break a plane to the left before the start finish line. But because the cars in front of you could be taking the track or one car is taking the track and one's diving below the right after the start finish line. It's really tough to tell who's breaking the more or not, you know,

basically going left to early. So those research becomes so important as hard to pass at that place. I think there's something there that NASCAR maybe has to look at about that this particular track because what we saw there is only going to get worse if we don't do something to stop it because I wonder I haven't replayed or looked at it, but I wonder when the

one turned out if that makes sense. How did he get to the night? Why was he a great restarter? He's got a great restarter. The next gen car though, I will say this is fairly easy to put power down and get through the gears. So you know, I've missed you. You know what I mean, so I'm just like was the nine already crowding to the left

and he cut even lower. Like there's all those questions and I have to replay it. I mean, we probably can bring it up and I could give you a better answer on this. I just that was something that crossed my head of just like, huh, but why was he there? Yeah, let me look it up. We're here we go. I found it. So chase Sally. It's

back on the third row. Ross is in the fourth row. They're both on the bottom. We start the 24-way in Biharns in front of the nine. The nine staying in line with the 24. Okay, so he Ross. Alright, so he didn't go to after the line. Yeah, so no, in that case is 50-50 and possibly, oh well, he does kind of go take four. It's Ross

to a stand. Of course, he's going a little bit early. He started starting left a little bit before the line. So that's the question. And I was watching this yesterday. I was thinking about it in terms of chase. I was saying about it and when I went back and looked, he was the highest ranked championship car at this moment. I think he was running fifth. And

I believe like, Ghana was sixth and Chastain was eighth. So I wonder, I don't know if chase Sally had been this high in the standings at this point. And this was the beginning of the final stage. Yeah, they kind of played strategy to put him in this position. I wonder if he was at that point just set on, I've got to do everything I can to

maintain position. I can't give up positions. And maybe he didn't get enough of a reminder that, hey, Ross Chastain is behind you and he might be coming like a freight train on this restarting. If he is, there's still 120 laps to go. Maybe don't force the issue. Yeah, no, I think that's a very valid, very valid point. And he just sort of reacted chase. I'll do

it for chase. I wonder if there's, you know, he bleeds that and thinks, you know, I probably would just want off into the corner and fall them off through the corner. You know, instead of trying to block down the left. But I mean, he also could have been one of those things where he didn't have the fastest car. He knows he's the fastest car. He's got

put in this position where if he can just gain front of them, all his championship contenders, maybe for some way, this all works out where he's, they get dirty air and can't ever get by. I think that could potentially be some of the thought process of like, I've got to keep this track position, which is why you make them move down to block. Yeah, that's kind

of on his thing too. All right. So as I mentioned, we're a few days after the race. I don't want to diminish several things that occurred. Of course, the tragedy involving coigabs and how Christopher Bell and the Joe Gibbs racing teams, game Lee race through despite that news. And of course Kyle Bush's final start a lot happened in this race, but we were a few days

past it. So I wanted to spend a little bit of this podcast looking ahead. And we're going to talk a little about 2023 and next year for next season. But before we get to that Parker, I just want to put a bill on Joey Lugano and winning his second championship. Interesting discussion on Jeff Gluck's podcast earlier this week about how many championships does Joey Lugano win?

Joey Lugano is 32 years old when he wins his second championship. Same age as Jimmy Johnson when he won his second championship, which came under slightly different circumstances. Jimmy Johnson won four races in a row at the end of the 2007 season. He won 10 races that year was much more dominant year. And it was year two of his five year run of cup championships. But

as I was listening to Jeff's podcast and Jeff and I have text a little bit like, I feel like Joey Lugano here is poised. I mean, this was year one of next gen. They book end the season with victories. Ian Paul Wolf seemed to really get this car. They're very good at adapting. I feel like I could see a couple more cup championships here in the

near term for Joey Lugano. What do you think? Yeah, I don't see any reason why not. I just I asked the question. I was thinking about this who's good this season and who sort of rose up and how many winners we had and all that sort of thing. And I thought, why would that change? Why would that change at all next year? Like, why would anything

be different? Right. Like the car is changing a little bit, you know, some of the modifications for safety and that sort of thing. And I'm sure there'll be tweaks to it here and there and other tweaks made as we try to make the short track racing better and road courses and that sort of thing. But I'm like, if you were good, you're only going to build

on that. It's not like the rule changes can be as massive as a redesign and full, like in Formula One, when they go to a totally different set of regulations, right? It's just not going to be that big. So I don't know. It's a really interesting question. The only thing I'd say is like, would I bet on chip chip four appearances seven more? Yeah, sure. Would

I bet on five more chip chips? Ooh, because it's so hard. It's just a winner take all. It's just a winner take all. I just, I, my team, which I'm, and I was like, you know, success to us is being in the championship for championships. Yeah, we're going for it. But it's like, you can't feasibly until you get further in the season. Like you were Joey

was, you can't start a year thinking, like, I guess you could. I guess he said he did. He started the year saying he win a chip side. I don't know. What do I know? I should probably, I could talk to him about the mental side of this because I'm getting back into it to say, yeah, you know what? I'm starting this year saying, I'm going to

be the champion in let's go. So do I think all the things aligned for him to do that talent and work ethic and all that stuff? Yeah, absolutely. I think there's multiple championships. And if it was any other format, I would put money on it. But this format is tough one to say that. And we have heard that from other championship veterans. I mean, I feel

like I've heard Kevin Harvick, Kyle Bush, Danny Hamlin, who have made multiple championship appearances. But I think between three of those guys, I don't know how many championship appearances they've had championship four appearances. I mean, probably at least double digits. And there's only three championships among them. And that speaks to the fact that, yeah, I think it's more of a goal to make the championship for

than to win the title. And yes, it was more of a Joey Logano, hey, 22 and 22. And he was certainly playing off, you know, confidence of coming in with a new year, a new car, a new year. But wait, you just made me remember something. There was a nice young fan who came up to me at Phoenix and said on practice day, he's like, hey,

do you know no one has ever won the championship on the year of their car number? I think I saw that stat. Yeah, something like that. And so he's like, do you think Joe, God, I can break it? And I turn him. I said, well, he was my pick. So I think so. And then 22 and 22. So I was like, oh, he did it. So

I was thinking of that kid on Sunday. I don't know where he is or who he was, but you were right, kid. Maybe this championship was just meant to be new. But it feels to me like, if this, we know this championship race going to stay in Phoenix next year, obviously Joey and this team seem to be really good at Phoenix. And he just seems to

be, I don't think you would want to face Joey Logano in the championship for right now. It just seems like he and his team really, I mean, you said it, like they still feel like they should have won the title in 20. And this was championship appearance number five for them. They've won two championships. They really could have three. Well, I mean, really, they could have

four. If 20 and 2016, the Carl Edwards restarted, that breaks a different way. I just feel like aside from his first time in the championship for every time Joey Logano gets in the championship for he's he's going to be there. He's going to be a top to for sure. Also, I got a one person I would put in why he would be able to achieve this

or why not would be Paul Wolf. And that I believe Paul Wolf has been the level of a Chad canouse or now Adam Stevens getting two chip chips and sell, you know, now two drivers are pretty impressive and two different, entirely different formats. But I think Paul is one of the, you know, easily best crew chiefs in the sport. And he has a serious drive and

intensity that as long as he keeps that up and is driven and he and his driver now aligned at two championships so they can both look at each other and say, Hey, let's go get three. You know, let's go get four. I think, yeah, that that is a powerful thing with their aligned. And they could do this together and achieve those championships all the way through.

He kind of masks that intensity and drive that he has. And we saw that our cameras caught him right after Joey won the race and he didn't even celebrate Paul Wolf. He was just sort of like, had quite a smile on his face. Well, he is subdued, but you got to see him when he's when he's in the mode of the working when I saw them

and we were coming down towards end of stage two in the fuel situation was going on. Yes, he had his phone out. He was looking as engineering, he's hitting him on the shoulder like, Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, check this out. It was wild. He has an intensity. It's just, yeah, it's definitely more subdued. He's a quieter person, but definitely always intense. If he had

his phone out, but that must have been when he was saying he was texting Roddy. Yeah, probably. Yeah. What do you think? We're making the end here. So you mentioned something interesting there, Parker, about the future. You said, you know, why would things change? Which that strikes me as potentially bad news for Martin Drex Jr. Who didn't win this year or Kyle Bush certainly struggled. Now

he goes to a new team, Harvick one twice and had a first round flam out that was kind of young as control, but he seemed to struggle a lot with the next gen card. Do you think it's going to be tougher for the veterans to kind of regain their mojo and year two of next gen? I just don't think you're going to see anyone dominate. I

think this trend of for two weeks, this teams on it for two weeks, this team is on it for two weeks, this drivers on it. Like I just think that thing is going to continue because it's so tight and you just have to look at these lap times on a green flag run at any given track. And the car in 29th sometimes, if you just put

it in second place, it would run in second place. Like it's just that type. And so it's just such small things are going to make massive differences. There's going to be small things that teams find for two or three weeks that really work during that period for whatever reason. And then the next team is going to find it and so on and so forth. And I

just don't see a reason as to why anyone one will become dominant. I don't see a reason as to why anyone will find a lasting advantage. I don't see a reason as to, you know, why any group would get stuck failing in any respect other than, you know, obviously engine wise in terms of like what to have with engine failures. But yeah, I think, you know,

like Martin Truex, you know, we say struggle, but I mean, he dominated New Hampshire. Yeah, that one easy if they just decide to have four or five races. Yeah, like Harvick won two races, you know, when they got hot, he was hot. You saw 19 winners. You almost saw 20 and I don't see any reason. That's where I, what I mean by say the same is

that some, you know, might believe like, oh, we'll start to see a hierarchy develop and that's our stuff. But I'm like, why? What are you going to find that an organization 10 spots back in the points isn't eventually going to find or that information will circulate or how far away can a team get? I don't know. I just don't know why it would be why this

wouldn't continue when you have so many organizations spending so much to, you know, figure out the same problem. So even if the powerhouses do spend the offseason developing all this stuff and they go into Fontana, maybe Phoenix would love with an edge. Yeah. Within a couple of weeks, that edge is gone. The regression of the me and like has its limits here with the powerhouses to

sort of reestablish themselves. I think so and I think, you know, what's big nowadays? It's simulation, simulation, how those two line up, you know, it's the resources you're getting from the main factor. That is one area where there will be a bit of hierarchy where say I think it's front row with four doesn't get the wind tunnel data, right? Because they're not on a full four

deal or something like that. So like that because everything comes to me, a factor could create a hierarchy amongst those teams that would, you know, sort of be a glass barrier of some respect, glass ceiling. But I still struggle with that because I'm like, how much can that really give you? Like, like if front row still has the best season of all time for them this

past year. So it's just like, how much is that really worth? And if it's a half a tenth, that's big. But if you take that half a tenth and you have a bad pit stop and you put that car in 28th and you take the car that was running 28th and you put them up in second, what's going to make them fall back to 28th? I

don't know. It's only half a tenth difference to speed. And the reason that you said the teams find things in the mat last for like two weeks, the reason they only last for two weeks were in the past, about four weeks or six weeks, is it just because pre-next gen, it would be sort of like this proprietary thing, like they build something and it takes a

while for teams to figure out how to build that and put it into their build process and get it on the cars. And now it's just like, it's just short term, like we're just finding set up tricks and anybody can find them. I have to believe it's that. I have to believe it. I just don't understand otherwise how it's not that. Like how, you know, yes,

in the past, you've built a better truck arm, you've built a better chassis, rear clip design that takes months to, you know, implement than weeks to manufacture. So and so forth, you have to be thinking about this ahead of time and how that correlates to your sim and so on and so forth. And now it's just like, well, it's all the same shape and piece and

parts and pieces and now we just have to figure out how to put the puzzle together differently. Like, and is there, you know, does the tire get changed? That could create a whole different change, you know, those little things that yes, we'll create that, but I think 100% in your spot on where, you know, it's no longer car design and pieces that are, it's just figuring

out the puzzle. And all of this now is happening pretty much in the sim world, happening outside of the real world environment. And we were having a little bit of an interesting discussion that I think I'll bring in the podcast before we got started. We were talking about this. How do we put cars on track more often? I feel like you have some good ideas here

that I'll let you share. Well, yeah, and the context is that there's a running joke amongst many in this sport right now that I want to have been using lately and I've been doing two days of sim testing up and welcome with my team getting started on 2023 and trying to help me understand how these cars drive. What the sim is like, what they were successful

with, you know, just sort of lining me up with that and starting to get head start. But with that, the joke is we don't drive race cars anymore. Like we don't start engines. We don't end it. One makes the joke like it's too expensive to in it. I guess yes. Like, you know, when people say like how much more can we cut, right? Like I think

Danny Hammond said like we can't cut anymore. We don't even drive cars anymore. We literally don't like we don't drive race cars. And like I was like, I was trying to explain it so and imagine in golf, they're like, you know, whoa, whoa, whoa, you cannot play golf today. Like don't you only call it tea. Yeah, only call it tea. Don't you dare swing a club.

You swing that club. That's illegal. A bit a hundred million dollar fine. That's where we're at. We're like, we're literally at this point where it's like, don't you dare drive a race car with somewhat good intentions, right? With good intentions. And I get it. I was a big advocate of, and maybe this is careful at you wish for. Like why are we practicing so much? I

hate it. Wind tunnels. I thought all this stuff was just crazy. What are we doing? Right? We're all just running circles, burning fuel and tires for no reason. And I get that. And I get now seeing the other side where I feel like there's a little bit lost from the weekends of not having cup cars on track three days of a weekend. I see that. I

feel it. I feel it in the atmosphere of the places. And then I, you know, I, is it just as a driver. I just sometimes just, I want to go drive a race car. You know, like, yeah, I'm not sure. Feeling that I'm going to. And I guess, you know, you have a car, our students and William Byron's who are going to drive other stuff and

everything. And that's cool. And maybe we can figure out a better way to harness that and create that, make more content. But to sometimes, like, I just want to go drive my Xfinney car. Like, I want to go test it. I want to go do something with it. I want to go, you know, like, what are we doing? Like, why can't I drive the car? You

know, like, why don't I do paint to be in a competitive atmosphere to drive it? So you just spitballing with you here. And I'm like, what if we came up with like Wednesday Charlotte test sessions or in Formula One, they have young driver tests. They have these runs down city streets. What if we all took old cars and went and did some city exhibition things? I

don't know. My point being just to actually physically turn steering wheels and press gas pedals and hear engines roar. Like, I just, it's so funny because it's been a great thing for the sport. And I'm, it's been awesome for the competitive side. And everyone knows who's listening to me for the last 10 years wants the parody that we saw wants the playing field to be equal

wants the financial side of this to work and make more sense and not be this just open free for all that just, you know, turns into a complete resource fast. I use that term sometimes in my truck team where I'm like, hey, don't worry about this. Qualifying to resource fast. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like that blows my mind sometimes. I just get

so frustrated. It's like, if you just spend more money, you'll go faster. Cool. Thank you. Like, what are we doing? So I love where we've done and where we're going and where this is. But it's just like, okay, time out. Wait. So how do we, how do we put race cars on the racetrack for content reasons? You know, that's my other thing. Like, I don't particularly

care personally as a driver. Like, I can learn a lot from a sim and drive a car and correlate it really well. And I've done this long enough that don't need that time in the car to figure it out. But it may be it's a little advantage to me being, you know, a veteran at this point of understanding how to drive these race cars. But from

a content perspective, I would love to be able to fill more content with the race cars. Like, I'd love to be able to have test sessions with GoPro's again. And, you know, cool stuff we can put on social and, and maybe, maybe there's a fun way to do that in the midweek, especially the Cup Series, maybe the older cars, whatever that we can create better, more

content. Like you were saying earlier, that forming the one concept of the year old test cars or whatever, I think it's called the one year old test car program. Yeah, they do the filming thing, right? And Colton Hurdough got a chance to drive an F1 car and really impress a lot of people. That's right. This year when you're clearing, because he was just driving like a

real car. And I guess it's a little bit tricky with next gen, but I mean, I don't know. Like, I love your idea. Like maybe NASCAR could create some concept where they did have a one day thing, Tuesdays and Wednesdays or whatever, it's Charlotte Motor Speedway and they had a set number of cars and teams could just send drivers and a skeleton crew of team members

work. But not in a way that would benefit. I know that's the top part. But like, I love your idea of content too, because I think it would be, it would kind of solve that riddle a little bit. And I think drivers would be more enthused about, hey, I can go out and I'll do media on the day where I can make some laps in the

car, right? If that's the reward. We all want, you know, Justin Marks wants, you know, 850 horsepower back forever. What about this? What if we just took the old cup cars, which have turned into it's any cars, but we all know how to build them and what to do with them and remember. And it's like, hey, you know what? On Wednesday, we're going to do an

open test session, a thousand horsepower, do everyone Wednesday opens. We'll just do when like once a month, cup teams get to just bring like the fastest car they can possibly build in the old car. I don't know. This is stupid as hell, but I, everyone's like, you're an idiot that will cost everyone will spend way too much money and it'll be the dumbest thing ever. But

like, what if we did that? We just live streamed on YouTube and everyone had go pros and it was just fun. And like, I don't know. I just think like racing, I've gotten to the point where I feel like race cars should be cartoonish. Like sometimes, and I'm very serious about racing, but sometimes I feel like it's suit overly serious. Race cars are cartoonish. They should

be extreme of everything you think of as a mechanical thing. Like it should race crazy. It should sound insane. It should look crazy. It should look cool. It should go fast. It should do all those things because like, what's the point otherwise? We're just here to entertain. I mean, Ross Chastain's Mark is more miracle that was a cartoonish. Trove that point home, right? And that was

awesome. It was viral moment NASCAR had all year. It was absolutely massive. Natural rally cross. They fly him through the air. Why do they jump in the air? I don't know. It's cool. Like it doesn't have any reasoning or any sort of relation, anything. It's just sort of is. Why does that happen? It's cool. Why do 401 cars have a thousand horsepower and create 10,000,000 pounds

of downforce? Because they go really fast. It's like, oh, that's cool. Okay. Thanks. Why do they look insane? I don't know. They look cool that way. I don't know. Sometimes I just want to I want someone who's 10 years old to look at the sport like I did, which is like, man, that looks fun. Like that goes to the financial stuff. I just feel like sometimes

I'm really into it and all this budget caps and all this stuff. But sometimes I'm like, man, like that doesn't sound fun to a 10 year old kid. Like he should think this is the coolest thing. Just it's all about just going fast. It's time to take a night. That's where I get to where we could probably we could do stuff that if we just allowed

ourselves to take it a little less seriously and just do cool stuff. Where everyone get excited, the drivers will be excited, the engineers will be excited, the owners are excited, the sponsors are excited, the media rights holders are excited. Everyone's excited. Just make it fun. Just don't lose sight of that purity. I love that idea. All right. Now that we've solved all the problems. That was

a very that was a perfect off season. Like it's like existential. This is the content we're coming to. The NASCAR NBC podcast for November 10th. I feel confident about this. But I want to close on my favorite topic, which of course is your racing career. Oh, yeah. So you just came down here. You said from a day with your new team, you're running a full time

Xfinity Series season in 2023. I've barely had a chance to talk to you about it aside from congratulate you on it. So I don't know a lot about it. And this is my opportunity to ask you tell me what's ahead for Parker Kulgerman next year. Yeah. So racing full time next thing series for big machine racing, big machine vodka spite course and Scott Borschetta, who's the

owner and founder of big machine and Patrick Donnie who's the crew chief Keith Barwell's GM. This is the team that called me after a one-minute Ohio and basically said, hey, would you like to come do Tau DeGa? And I said, yes. And then we went really well and Scott turned of me and said, would you be interested in doing this full time? And I said, yes.

As long as we have the same goals, he's like, what do you mean by that? It's like, well, you know, if I do this, I want to do it 110% and I want to go for a championship. And he's like, that's a hundred percent what we want to do. And you know, we're really we're putting the resources behind it and they're full on, you know, our

star affiliation. We're right across the street from our CR. It's great, you know, championship level equipment and, you know, putting the right people in place and expanding the organization and that sort of thing. And that's already just in a couple of weeks I've been a part of it. I've seen that. So that's really exciting. And I hope that I can be a very integral part to,

you know, helping that that ascent in a lot of ways. And I think all the parts and pieces are there. And the last two days were kind of my first days of work. So, you know, Jimmy Johnson posted, he was going to work for the first time at GM S. I then had to follow my first day was also the first same day. And, you know,

basically I went to the team a couple weeks ago. I forget I said, Hey, look, I want to just after Phoenix, I want to jump in the sim. I want to start working on what you guys had success with this past year, which Nick Sanchez finished the season in the 48 did a wonderful job. That kid, you know, was really on it. I think he is

a mazely bright future as a driver in this sport. Just from the little bit I saw pain attention before he car. But I wanted to be able to take some of those races that they won Texas with Tyra. Right? I think earlier this year, they ran well of Ross Chastain, you know, and sort of say like, Hey, where would you guys successful, what did he with

this car feel like? What was the setups like? That sort of thing. And sort of so I could start to correlate in my mind through the off season, how they've approached racing, how I approach racing, what my feedback is. That sort of thing. So we did two days yesterday afternoon this morning. You know, it was really fruitful. I felt like in working my engineer Cody McKenzie,

a great dude. And yeah, I just, it's so surreal because it still doesn't fully feel real. I went and did my racing suits measurements with Sparko because I'm getting those again. I've got Bell helmets. I went over there. I was like, man, this is so surreal, but also like so exciting. And I'm so excited about the most mundane things like we're doing a lot of cool

stuff for our cars. We're doing them just over the off season building new cars, but then just getting to go to the sim for four hours and just work on a plan of like how you get better and what we're working on towards and trying to figure out like there's some rule changes happening. Okay, what are those going to do to affect the cars and like

it's very mundane, but it's very exciting because this is stuff I just haven't gotten to do. Being the guy who jumps around all these different teams and does part time stuff for the last couple of years. So it's an amazing experience so far. And it's only two days in and I'm very pumped. You know, I'm also as excited as I am. I'm trying to say like

very grounded to just be like, this is happening. It's for real. But it's not, you know, it's not all going to be roses. You know that there's no no one that has 33 weekends that are perfect, right? And I've been given a past of the years of being part time where I'm not racing for a championship. I'm not racing for points. So when I show up

on there to win, it's just for fun. I say that with the intention of like, hey, I'd like to be doing this. But you know, it's a different way of racing. I'm in tality. Whereas when you're racing for points, a championship, like it becomes serious at times and you just have to be ready for that. But I feel like I am more than ready. I'm better

than the last time I did this by order of magnitude. So I'm excited and sort of getty to sort of show that and experience it in real time. I love seeing it. I love hearing it. You sound ready. And I heard you say that. That's one of my favorite quotes. I saw coming out of your news conference at Martinsville that you feel like you're a better

driver now than you've ever been in your entire life. 100%. I was talking to Brad after the announcement at Martinsville during qualifying. Because of the last year. Yeah. Because of the last year. And he asked me, Hey, how this come about? And I told him the thing. I came about. And I said, and I turned to him. And you know, I just left BKR at the

end of 2020 mid 2012. Yes. We had a bit of our falling out. I was leaving Penske at the end of 2012. And I said, you know, I'm a way better driver than I was 10 years ago. And he turned me. He was like, experience helps, doesn't it? I was like, yeah. So. A little bit of a new link there to Brad. Like, hey, man, you

gave up on me too early. No, I don't that that too much. I just thought it was funny to, you know, to talk to a guy who had obviously solved me very closely as who I was at that time to who I am now, you know, just was like, Hey, man, I realize I'm a way better driver. I was. Well, I mean, that was more than

10 years ago. And next year. So you went from that opportunity to 2013. You ran full time with KBM. Yes. And that was your last full time. Yeah, it's because 2014 I was supposed to be full time of swan, but it folded after nine races and then the started since then you've just been weird in the wilderness in the wilderness. Yeah. No, literally, the edge of

obscurity at all times. And definitely not. You become a national media personality. You become one of the best analyst pit reporters in racing in my humble opinion. Become a truck series winner of spreading things out to, you know, I feel like, you know, normally people do their first full season of what time was nationwide. Then they do it the next year. Yeah. I just decided to

take a little night. Well, that's what I wanted to ask you about. Like so, I mean, I hear you, like you've got the giddyness. You got the, yeah, but this is like a full time job now. Oh, yeah. And you filled it. You know, next year will mark 10 years since the last time you did this full time. I mean, how much has changed is so

much different and there's so much the same. It's so funny. I was, you know, popping around Moore'sville again in a capacity where I feel like, oh, wow, I'm going to be here a lot. That sort of thing, the accommating friendships down here because I'm going to get a place down here and just like letting people know like, hey, I'll be here. You know, I'll have Tuesday

nights or Wednesday night. I'll be doing nothing like, hey, you want to hang out? I don't know. Hey, friend, remember when you said, simmer, every night, you want to simmer, everything better to do. So, but it's funny. I'm trying to approach it where I don't fall into old habits or old ways for sure. I think that's one thing I've made really, really big part for me.

It's like, make sure to continue doing the things that made me that better driver more successful. Being out of this bubble, I think, was good for me for those years I have been out of it, but also reaccomming it within it to with the knowledge of what I've learned from being outside of it. Right? And I think that's a really powerful thing, continuing a lot of

my median divers for sure. You know, that's one way I want to work that in now understanding my scheduling better, understanding how to do that, understanding the me the world, you know, trying to incorporate those things that I don't that we don't fall behind there as well as I try to, you know, take on the driving side full time. And then also, you know, mentally, I

think there's a huge, you know, 90% of this is mental. It's not more and success and racing. And I think for me, it's making sure that I'm continuing a positive progression in the mental side that I've been on for the last couple years. Right? And so whatever I have to do there to make sure that that's happening, you know, it'll be very key for me. So

I want to take what I knew from back then and what I know not to do, what I now know what to do and what I don't know. And what I don't know is some of the things and the tools and the pieces and the parts that I just haven't got to experience because I haven't been full time, right? And I want to be able to

take those in and play catch up with those and learn them quickly while knowing the things I know that I've done better and putting away all the things I know I don't want to do or don't should pass I shouldn't go down. What's something you're definitely not going to do that you do? If you can say, live where I lived, me who I was, grow up

basically is the best way to put it. I laughed so often when I see, and I shouldn't, I don't even say name names, like a Noah Griggs and I probably would have been very much a similar personality at the time, but I hid it all. I didn't put it all out there like he did, which probably probably was my detriment. But I think that's the type

where I've grown up from being that person. And so I laugh when I see those things about guys like I'm like, yeah, I wasn't just similar, you know, I just probably hid it all. It was like behind the scenes. So I think I've just been really focused on being who I've become and not falling back to being that kind of person. So I like, you know,

it's not like I'm more boring or anything. I feel like I'm actually more fun. I think I'm a cooler person, that sense. But I just, I think I make better decisions now. I know where to put my energy, my time, and my focus, and you know, I know what does and doesn't equal success. And I think that's the part where I just, that's the confidence that

I have that I just, I know all that. I know how to drive the race car. I know how to deal with all the like, and salary stuff, scheduling the media at times, you know, how you schedule your life, how you do all that stuff, travel, everything, just deal with it so much better relationships, friendships, all those things. It's the unknown part that's really exciting, which

is all the tools that my disposal and the idea of having a really supportive owner and sponsors and that sort of thing that want me to be me and to continue doing podcasts and that sort of stuff. So it's a weird, I know that was a very deep, no, that was good, but it's really good. But it's just, it feels like I hate using second chance

because it seems so lame, but it's like I've been able to press start again with the knowledge of everything you've done before. It's a very unique, right? Like people might say that all the time about anything life, whatever it's a business, whatever like, now if I've started with all I know now, that'll be amazing. I'm literally getting the chance to start with all that I know

now. Yeah, which is a ton. Yeah, it's wow. And some of the coolest things from the announcement, Jimmy Johnson texted me, Kyle Bush texted me, Kevin Harvick stopped me, which was super cool, Mark Martin hit me up. It was the most amazing names and people of the sport that reached out and, you know, congratulated me and I just thought like, wow, I do not want to

let them down. So Dale Jarrett, Kyle Petty, all the people Steve Lattart who have supported me, Dale Jr., you know, that's the other part that like really pushes me. It's not like, of course, the people that supported me in my early years breaks cutting him, Bob Perona, those take people I want to do this for them as well. But then it's all the people that I

feel like I've gained the respect over the last few years that I'm like, I do not want to let them down. So I'm going to do it. It takes me successful. I don't think I have a question. In fact, like you are going to be more appreciative and cognizant of what an opportunity this is for you after everything you've been through on this incredible journey where

we didn't know if you're going to race cars anymore. I'm glad you brought up Noah because I feel like even just in the last year we've seen a transition with him. I mean, I was really impressed by how he handled himself the night of the Expanding Series Championship when he lost it to Ty Gibbs. But he definitely is a different kind of person. Yeah. And I've

thought about that a lot since last Saturday. I feel like maybe some young drivers, you kind of have to like grow into your own skin at the right pace, but with the right timing and opportunities and it's a mix. And it's there's no like my favorite movies is Moneyball because I love the line where he's like to the scout. He's like, I've seen you sit in

those dining room tables and tell them when I know I know of your son, he's going to be successful. Yeah. Like that sort of thing. And I'm like, you can't do any sport, right? You just don't know like these are young kids. I was nine when I was 19 when you went in the pool of Penske. I was I just turned 19. Okay. Yes. I mean,

I'm barely a human at that point. Like, you know, like there's just so much being thrown at you and so much attention and support and the financial side is wild and what gets put behind you. And you're just like you see some people are, you know, I'm so impressed sometimes. And I've said this before, I think I was podcast of like young guys, I've seen come

through how they handle it, knowing how I handled it. And I'm like, wow, that's really impressive. They're far more mature than I ever was. Like, you know, I mean, like I see that all the time. And I think Noah's been really interesting because he's been able to, and I think become more himself, right? Whatever he is, you know, what he's discovered to be himself, which is

this flamboyant outspoken wild child, ask personality and putting it out in the public sphere and getting accepted for it. That's a really tough thing to do. You know, that can be taken different ways. It can be looked down upon by potential owners and sponsors was what we were all told, you know, for years. And so you just didn't go down that. I don't think you had

a lot of drivers who were willing to put that so that personality out there. And he's been willing to do it. And it's it's worked out for him so far. I think Cup will be a really hard adjustment. Yeah. You know, like that's, you know, don't need all the thread. Cup series is just, there's no way you know, I've talked about it. It's just it's the

hardest racing series to leverage right? It's by far, it's not only the competition level, the resources, the pressure, but it's just the relentless gauntlet of a schedule that you will be on that just does the second you start to struggle for air, you sell them allowed to come up, right? And so it's just like you have to be on your team every way. And the guys

who are successful have patches of struggle. And that makes them even stronger and better. So then they, you know, they've struggled and come back. And that's like above you for when you're first starting those sorts of things. And I look like on Eric Jones. I mean, man, the mental fortitude to stick through that his daily junior download was so interesting when he talked about getting, like,

go from Gibbs and he was just like, set there for 30 minutes. Like, what do I do my life? What do I do from here? And like to come all the way back to winning in the Cup Series. That's incredible. It's amazing. So you can't touch that. We're still going to see you on the media side. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, yeah, well, I'm figuring it all

that out. I think, you know, it's all sort of a work in progress. It's WIP, TBD, or what I can do here. But we got to figure it out. I think the intention right now obviously is for me to do Sundays on the NBC portion of the season. You know, what that, how many with it looks like I think that's fluidity there. And everyone in NBC

has been so supportive and awesome through this poll process over the years, letting me go drive that's ledges opportunity. And what I want to figure out is sort of like what that schedule looks like, you know, it's doing this full time and sort of what my, at the end of the day, I just don't want to ever be in a position where one, I can't be

100% because one's taking away from the other or something, right? And they would ever that whatever that month line, I haven't hit that line yet. I will be honest, like even racing, you know, as much as I've done this year or other years, I didn't hit that line where I felt like I was unprepared on either side. But I just want to make sure that I

don't ever hit that. So that's where I'm hesitant to commit anything one way of the other other than to say my intentions are that, but I want to be sure that I'm never in a position where I'm like, ooh, this is too much. So that's completely understandable. Yeah. Because, as you said, you're navigating uncharted waters here for the first time in 10 years. You don't really

know what you don't know at this point. But I'm glad nonetheless that hopefully we'll get to still see you around. Definitely. Oh, I'll be available for the NASCAR NBC podcast. Are you sure about that? I'm probably going to ask you back. I will. I'm willing to come back. I'm willing. I'm willing. All right. I probably hold you to that. I'll come to your new place here

in South. Appreciate it. Thanks so much for being her Parker. Yeah. Thanks for having me. We appreciate Parker Kligerman for joining us on the NASCAR NBC podcast. Thanks to Motorsports Manager Emily Convoy for coordinating Parker's appearance. And also thanks to Parker for stopping by NBC Sports Charlotte Studios to record in person during his visit to North Carolina. So that's the last episode of the NASCAR NBC

podcast for 2022. As always, I appreciate everyone listening and hope that you will all return again next year more to come on details about the next episode. But until then, I hope everyone has a great holiday season and a happy new year. Thanks again for listening to the NASCAR NBC podcast.