Martinsville: Ross Chastains wild ride; does NASCAR need to address future moves; Christopher Bells must-win moment; Ty Gibbs possible title repercussions

Hi, I'm Martin, the GAS Card Music Podcast. I'm the host Dave Ryan here with Jeff Furt who has graciously agreed to join me, volunteered to join me for our post-Martinsville GAS Card NBC podcast episode setting up the Championship for Phoenix. We've got a lot to talk about and I'm so glad that the mayor has volunteered his time. He's not even on the show tonight and you

came in to do this. Well, it's Halloween. I want to show off my audience. Just watch, sure. You're very festive. Yes, that's. And who wouldn't be after this race Sunday at Martinsville? So it was won by Christopher Bell, which was amazing in its own right, because it's the second time in the playoffs. He's had this must win situation and fulfilled that. We're going to get to

Christopher Bell, but we got to start with Ross Chastain and this move that he made on the final lap, Jeff. He essentially pinned his car to the wall through turns three and four, drove into the wall at 130 miles an hour, kept it there all the way around, went from 10th to 5th and ensured that he would make the championship for. So I guess I'll just

start with like the most basic of questions. How did this work? Why is driving into the wall at 130 miles an hour and keeping it pinned there? Work. Why does that go faster than being on the bottom, which is the shortest way around? Well, essentially, not only did it, he put it in fifth gear. So with knowing that he was going to be fat going faster,

he had the wearer with all to switch to put it in fifth gear, standing in the gas, put it against the wall on the back straight away so he could enter all the way against the wall. And then when everybody's off the gas, he's using the wall to keep him from spinning out or moving out the racetrack or wrecking. I mean, he's actually using the wall

to keep himself from wrecking and just stayed in the gas. And literally by the work that I've done, probably going 50 to 60 miles per hour faster in the center of the corner than everybody else. And it looks like a hundred mile an hour faster. But simply, he literally used the wall to keep from wrecking and carrying that much speed. I wonder how much the new

car had to do with that? Right? So you got different wheels, different tires, different body, all that kind of stuff. I wonder how big of an impact that had and the ability to do that because it's not the first time we've seen it tried. Carl Edwards tried it at Kansas, but he did it wrong. He tried it, he drove from the inside. He came from the

inside. Yeah, he needed to enter from the top and be on the wall when he entered and then he'd go all the way around and it might have worked. We've seen at Darminton, we've seen it try it a couple times. Carl Larson did try it last year, didn't work. And this year in the city race. Sheldon Creek. Sheldon Creek tried it. And it got about halfway

around the corner before it could work. And so I wonder how much the car had to do with that. But just and he said he did it playing video games as a kid. I think the first time I ever saw a race car do that was on GameCube 2005. GameCube like console. I don't know if anybody else in the world had does, but we did and

my brother Chad beat me doing it at the fictitious, I think it was Dodge Raceway. And he said that he came off turn two and said, well, why don't I try this? It wasn't premeditated. I don't know. I wonder if it wasn't, if they didn't spend some time working on it in the film. Or I wonder. And because how does that just pop in your head?

I mean, I don't know. I'm not a video gamer. I grew up just past the video game thing. And but what an incredible move. What an incredible show of resilience. Never quit. Do anything. Try anything. I mean, just incredible. I mean, I feel like I've done this for a long time. I've done as long as Kyle or DJ and those guys, but I've never seen anything

to compare it to. Watching it in person was like, I initially, for that one millisecond thought his throttle hung. And that somehow he had made the wise decision to put it against the wall, put it just a millisecond. And then I recognized, this is on purpose. And we've seen it in person. It looks so, it was so much faster than everybody else. It didn't look real.

And on TV, it doesn't either. But in person, it didn't look real. It looks like he's running at two or three times speed versus normal speed. Not below him. Yeah. And I mean, hey, I all credit to him. I mean, Diny Hamlin has got to be had to wake up this morning doing what the hell. All credit to him, again, a sign of, I'm going to

do anything. Which is exactly why I just am Mark's hearting. And he said that after the race. And his interview, I think with Dylan Welch, just to Mark's said, I mean, honestly, it just goes back to the fact that we've got somebody sitting in this race car that wants it more, I think, than anybody else out here. And we'll rethink what's possible. If sometimes you have

to be willing to do things that other people just won't do and just put it online, and that's what Ross Chastain has been all about, Oscar. And Ross Chastain has been all about that all year long. He's calm just driving down. If you think about the playoffs, he's been really smart. Being a fast race car driver, but a smart race car driver, put them in position

to go to Phoenix. And then to do it, though, to cap it all off, he had to do that. He had to go somewhere that other people wouldn't go. And think about things in a way that other people don't think about it. And so I've been critical of Ross and how he has been in so many wrecks that were his fault. But I've never been critical

of Ross and his care, and his effort, and his dedication, and his want to. Those things are real. And that's what makes him a really good race car driver. We saw it again on Sunday. I mean, the willingness to do things that other people won't do and be comfortable with the outcome. That's what's made Ross Chastain. That's what's got him here. I mean, honestly, that's what's

got him here. He's made some people add along the way. But he's done what he's had to do to get himself to be a full-time, cup driver, great, driving, great equipment. And now he's racing for championship. And it all starts with that won't do in that desire and willingness to be comfortable when others aren't. I want to go back to what you said, Jeff, about the

sim, because Ross is a little bit cagey, I think, sometimes in reviewing exactly how much prep he does. He clearly does a ton of homework and a ton of prep. And this reminded me a little bit. He didn't really own up to this move either. But at the year and after Apple's motor speedway road course this year, he's the guy on that final restart who takes

the escape route, because NASCAR hasn't really put out a discernible specific rule here. And he essentially just passes everybody and almost shoots in the lead and wins the race, doing something that no one else had thought of, no one else had done. Martin's will speedway's been around since 1947. Has this move always been sort of available? But I guess to your point, the car just hasn't

really been there. I mean, has any driver just looked at this and said, you know what, maybe if I just panned against the wall and mashed the throttle, I'll be able to pass everybody. You know, I heard Joey say, Joe Ligano say that we all did it racing video games, right? I was just ahead of the video game stuff. Like when, you know, it just says

a younger guy, video games or a Tari, you know, was froggered. You know, like it wasn't very realistic. So I'd never got into it at all. And when you hear those guys talk about, well, you know, and I remember watching Harrison play racing games and they're doing all kinds of crazy stuff, right? I'm like, what the hell are you doing? You know, that's not real life,

right? But yeah, just, I don't know that it's always been available or not. I don't know if you did that in a truck or an Xfinity car with a late model. I don't know what the result would be. I just don't know. I think we're going to find out because if you're a racecar driver, so just in Mark's comments, I don't agree that he wants more

than everybody else. I don't agree with that. I think that's disrespectful to all the other drivers out there. I will agree that he is willing to do some things that others won't. It doesn't mean he wants it more. That means that he's willing to do some things. He's willing to think differently than some other people do, right? But I don't think he wants it more than

Tyler Reddick or Ryan Blaney or Chase Elliott, you know what I mean? Or anybody. But he is willing to think out of the box. And he's learning how to be comfortable with who he is. And that really got pushed this year, right? It really did. And I think that Ross was trying to figure out, OK, how can I be successful, be selfish, which I think you

have to be fit into this? I don't need to be buddies with all of them, but I do have to fit in, right? And how do I do all that, right? And then we saw, in my opinion, we've seen in the last several races, we really smart in how he raced. Didn't get himself in trouble, lived to fight another day, got really good finishes. And then

he does this. And it shows you what he's willing to do. And it shows you that his, I think, Justin said it well. He thinks about willing to think about things differently. And that part, I will agree with 100%. Yeah. Because no one else has tried it at Martin'sville. I mean, did get tried at Darrington, but he got tried at Darrington a little bit with desperation,

like not even that, but part of it, you know. But it was, I don't know. I mean, it was fun to see. It was a crazy moment of one of the most memorable moments in the sports history. It has to be. And now where do we go from here? And that's a little bit of a concern. So if you're driving a late model with the big

late model race at Martin'sville, next fall, and you're running second, and you just saw Ralph Chastain do this, what do you do? Yeah. And so I think that we do have, as a sport, we do have a question to ask ourselves, where do we go from here? Which I think Ross could take a lot of pride in. When you make an industry think about how you

deal with something that you just did in a positive way, that's an ultimate compliment in my opinion. Well, so we still got one race left to go here. We've got the championship race at Phoenix. And Steve O'Tarte was saying this morning that he thinks teams are probably in the simulator today. Monday morning, figuring out, can we do this in terms three and four? You know, all

this talk about always, oh, do you cut the dog like at Phoenix? Now it's like, can we pin against the wall? Like, Ross Chastain did at Martin'sville and tried to gain spots that way. After Martin'sville, Kyle Larson said that this was embarrassing. Joey Ligano said NASCAR needs to address it. I guess two questions. First we'll address, does NASCAR need to come out and do something about

this prior to Phoenix? Do they need to lay out some new ground rules for Phoenix based on what happened at Martin'sville? So listen, I probably no one sits on the fence in this conversation, right? I'm always trying to find a little bit of middle ground and solutions. So the reason it was spectacular and the reason it was amazing is because such a rare event. If at

the last lap of every race, someone is up there against the wall trying to make this happen, it becomes no longer spectacular. It becomes whatever it becomes. Like, it's not always going to work. And it won't work in a truck the way it would and it's a car to wait, we're the curb car. I don't know which would it work and not. I don't know. But

at some point, it becomes, if that's the way you have to run the last lap of a race, or I mean, why wouldn't you do a qualifying? Why wouldn't you do a qualifying and get the number one spot? Get your backup car out, start on the back and have the number one spot on Pit Road. So it starts this spiral. Slippery slope. Yeah, if you were,

let's say you were one of the Xfendery teams. Number one pit box at Phoenix gets determined off qualifying at Martinsville. And you know you're in the playoffs. We'll just wrap it around turn three and four and run two seconds faster. Everybody else, destroy your car, get the backup out, run 15th on the Xfendery race, but you know your P1 on Pit Road the next week. That's

the problem. And so, you know, I hear people say, you know, it's stupid to be thinking about a rule. It's stupid to be, but you got to think down the road. Because once you open Pandora's box, you know, what's going to come flying out of it? And so all credit to Ross Chastain. And I am in no way. I have no negative feelings about what Ross

Chastain did. When I look at how does it affect what you do in the future, it's real. Because teams and drivers will find a way to manipulate everything. And now you've shown people that you can do it and you can't work if you do it a certain way. And so, I think it's foolish to just say, well, that was great. It was awesome. So we shouldn't

think about it anymore. I think that's a stupid way to look at things. You have to look at how this affects the things down the road. You can say it was awesome and also say, well, is that what we want to see every week? And when people say, well, this is a once in a lifetime thing. It's never worked before. Never going to see it again.

That's wrong. You're going to see it attempted way more than you've ever seen it attempted before. Because it worked. Nobody tried it before because Carl Edwards tried it. It didn't work. Kyle Arson almost made it work. Sheldon Creed almost made it work. And you can't tell me people didn't watch that for Garnton thinking, hey, you know what? Because I can tell you I did. It's been

in the back of my mind. And I got a kid that races. And I can guarantee you before Garnton, we were going to be having a conversation about this. So NASCAR should address it before the title. I think something has to be addressed. And I think there should be a detailed conversation about it. Like what does need to be addressed? And it'd be silly just to

bury your head in the sand and say it doesn't matter. Let them do whatever they want. What if Kuzlowski and Hamlin get together, coming to get the checkered, Kuzlowski spins up into the outside wall? Ross Chastain is hitting him, going 60 mile an hour faster. He was entering turn three. Is there exiting pretty much turn four? So if they get together, he's sailing at that with

no hope. No way he could have stopped. No way. What if those two weren't as far down the corner as they were? When he called them, they were on the straight. There's conversations that have to be had about it. And that doesn't mean that I didn't think it was an awesome move. It just means that whenever something like that happens, it can change the sport. And

is it a good change? Is it a bad change? I mean, we don't have tandem drafting anymore. There was nothing not pure about that. We did it because it worked. Got a rid of it. So we've seen it before. So my brought up Frank Stodder and I with the rule. We got him at the All-Star race. There wasn't a rule and we took advantage of it.

Well, then they created a rule. I mean, that's a fair point. So it wouldn't happen again. So it'd be foolish not to look at it. Should they address it? I think so. But it's got to be addressed in the right way. And that's where it gets difficult. For Phoenix. I would like to see him address it for Phoenix, yes, I would. What if he is simple

as creating a rule that says, if you ride the wall in the last lap, you can't gain a spot? I think it would be as simple as saying it. If in our judgment, you used the wall to create an advantage, the way where Austin did it, at Martin'sville, you're going to be the last car to leave that. Long term, because it's due to the car, should

they look at ways? I don't see how you do it. But the car is pretty much a big. I think you have to. Yeah, I think you have to. I think if the industry decides it's not in the best interest of the sport, then I think you have to just, you almost have to make a rule. And I hate saying this. But you almost have to

make a rule. It's a judgment call. Because you can't have a guy going up, hitting the wall, you know, and he gains a spot. You know, oh, he touched the wall. He can't have that. But if you deliberately, if you're Ross Chastainit, there's going to be a penalty. Just that simple. And there'll be a million questions from it. But you'll know when you see it, and

NASCAR would have to make the call. And I hate that. Yeah, because I heard you say a million times, the problem with rules is when you make them, you have to enforce them. The second part of this question I want to get back to, Kyle Larson said he thought this was embarrassing. It was a moment that went viral. The tweet with the video on the NASCAR

NBC account has been viewed more than 5 million times as we sit here talking today. So it's not as if this was bad for NASCAR in terms of exposure. Does it put NASCAR in a bad light at all because of the way it looks? I don't think so. Listen, I think it's just simply a guy going the extra mile to make something happen. This is something

we see every week. It was an extraordinary move made by somebody that was very hungry, making trying to make something happen. The problem is it becomes embarrassing if it's every week. I don't see how you couldn't say that. I don't see anybody that's been around racing and understands what racing is about could think that that being part of the sport here moving forward on a weekly

basis is a good thing because it's not. At that point, it's not a good thing. This was great for NASCAR. And so here's one of the beef. Like here's what somebody's saying. Oh my God, it was great for NASCAR. You hated it so you don't understand it. You're trying to ruin my sport. It can be great and not great long term. I mean, not everything that

happens, we need to keep doing it. And that's what's gotten us in trouble in the past. Like we need to recognize, okay, that was a great moment. And he should be celebrated for that moment, 100%. But I don't, not so sure we need to see it every week. And I'm not saying we would. I just, I don't know. I don't know where this would go. I'm

all for celebrating the move and giving Ross Chastain a ton of credit for having just the foresight, the ingenuity, whatever you wanna call it to make this move the bravery. But all that being said, what makes me a little bit leery about it, maybe I'm too namby-pamby about this. But this has been a season in which there have been head injuries. And we just had Tyler

Reddick tweet today that he left his car during the race Sunday because his head wasn't right after he got hit in his car. And he's going to see a doctor to make sure he can get cleared for Phoenix. Does it feel awkward at all to celebrate a guy driving into a wall at 130 miles an hour? I mean, I don't wanna like, we celebrate. What's awesome

about race car drivers is they're willing to do things most people won't. Right. And Ross Chastain was comfortable doing it. And so I don't have a problem with that part of it. I mean, I don't have a problem with Harley any of it other than where does the lead is from here. And now I will say this. I heard some comments today that because some people

don't believe we should do this move and forward, they're trying to ruin this sport. What does silly take? Like their opinion disagrees with you. So you they're trying to ruin this sport. And intentionally they're intentionally trying to ruin my sport. Come on. A driver making a comment about what he thinks is in the best interest of the sport. It's not intentionally trying to ruin the sport.

That's his opinion on what could help the sport. It might be different than yours. It's completely disrespectful for someone just because they disagree with you. They're trying to ruin the sport. That's what's gotten us in this shape. We're in the country now where we can't have conversations and debate, right? You and I can sit here and argue like, he'll about something and we're going to leave

here and go drag a beer and have respect. But how do you how can you show how can you say that you're being disrespected because they don't believe you by telling them by disrespecting them. And there's a lot of that going on right now. That's silly. It's okay to have a discussion about where we are as a sport and how to move it forward, even if

we disagree on how to do that. Everybody takes that thing so personal, man. I don't understand. Add hominem and tax, man. They're bad. Before we leave, Ross Chastain, I just want to go back to, he deserves a ton of credit for being brave enough to do this. And I agree with you. Like, I think Justin Marx is a little bit flawed and saying that it's not

that anybody wants it more than Ross. It's just that Ross is willing to maybe do things that other guys wouldn't. I mean, is he braver? Is he crazy or in some ways that he's willing to do that where maybe another driver wouldn't? Or I guess it maybe is just as simple as other drivers didn't think of it. Like maybe if Chase Bristol and I is what's

going to work, I'll try it. I think that most of them they believed it will work when we were willing to try it. Now, most of them weren't thinking that way. I mean, it's out of the box thinking, right? Like it's not. Like you said, it's Ross Chastain. I mean, Dale Jr., who raised for how many years and I who raised for how many years, we're

looking at it and when to doing what the hell are we watching, right? I mean, we wouldn't have thought about it. Or I'd damn sure wouldn't have I shouldn't have been speaking to Jr., but I certainly wouldn't have thought about it. So, Christopher Bell, who you have said since midseason, Jeff, I'll give you a ton of credit. After his New Hampshire win, you came on the

NASCAR NBC podcast and talked about how you thought he's the fastest guy at Joe Gibbs Racing and he'd been saying that. And now it's empirically true. He's the only Joe Gibbs Racing driver who has advanced the championship for and he's done it in this clutch way twice in a row. He wanted the roval to get the round of eight. He wins at Martin's field to get

to the championship for. What more can you say about Christopher Bell in the number 20? He's ready. And we know what kind of talent he is. He's with Adam Stevens who has experience been there done that. Christopher Bell now has the right amount of his own experience. Been in these pressure field situations. He's ready. He's ready to show the world what he can do. And I

find, I think he's just an exceptional talent. And he's got the right mindset. He's focused on racing and he's intently paying attention all the time. And he's just good. And he's only going to get better. And then mainly when I look at him and his eye, and I've known him for a long time, he's super confident I belong here at Christopher Bell. He's always been a

little bit, to me, not exceptionally confident, like question his self a little bit. I don't see that at all today. When I look at Christopher Bell and talk to Christopher Bell, he knows he belongs here. He believes he can win this championship. Not a question in my mind. And I think when you take that much talent, add experience, confidence, they become very, very dangerous. Do you

think some of that insecurity might have been the fact that he didn't come from the stock car background? He's not used to running the longer races. It was a sort of a matter of getting accepted. Like the talent was always there. It was just needed the experience. Well, so contrary to what a lot of our fans think, you don't get here without being successful. And you

also don't get here without help. And if you're not successful, you're not going to be here. And he knows that. And so there's always this insecurity of do I belong? Can I make it? And if you're not, then you're arrogant, right? Because you're going against Kevin Harvick and Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin. And think about who is in his own team that he has to be.

That's a lot to ask. And he's found a way to do it. So I think that some of his past insecurities are just the simple, this is hard. And if I don't make it, what am I doing in the rest of my life? And I think that a lot of race car drivers have that. What do you think that team has in terms of being a

not just driver? He's clutched. But I mean, Adam Stevens had to make two critical pit calls to win both of these races as well. He said two time champion Kruci. Maybe it's that simple. But does that team have something extra? So a little bit of it has been they had no choice. Yeah, true. And I don't mean that any disrespect. I have so much respect to

Adam Stevens. But we talk a little bit about how I don't believe it's an advantage, but it does give you a clear path in what you have to do when you're in must win situations. Chase Briscoe doesn't stay out on old tires if he wasn't in a must win situation. So some of those strategies get made, your situation forces you into making them. So no disrespect

to Adam Stevens at all. But it kind of laid out there for him. I got to do this. And then he made the right call. He didn't stay out on old tires. He decided to pit. And I'm going to put my guy on offense. But there's no advantage in not being ahead in points. But there is. But it does clear to the pathway for your decision

sometimes. So you mentioned it earlier, Denny Hamlin. I mean, if you were to told Denny Hamlin, you're going to win both stages. You're going to finish fifth in this race. I think he would have liked these chances of advancing. But I mean, Bell seizes the moment when, no other way to say this, Hamlin's pit crew pretty much fumbles this way. I mean, it looked like Denny

Hamlin's position of the win this race until the number 11 crew had three fairly mediocre stops. Denny Hamlin's still a lot of championship. Now he's not going to be in the championship round for the first time since 2018. Empathy for what Hamlin's gone through here? Yes. Yes. I have a really good race team. He's a really good race car driver in position, doing his job. And

they just didn't deliver. And it's just that simple. I mean, Pit Road is vital. And you have to have good pit stops. And you have to deliver when the moment's big. And they just didn't. I mean, it's just that simple. They didn't deliver. And you lost track position. And it was very difficult to pass until Tarzro old. Once Tarzro, we saw a lot of passing. But

it took a while for that to happen. And with Kevluz and his spots, and it wasn't enough race time left in a race to make them up. And so yeah, I have a lot of empathy for Denny Hamlin. He's a Hall of Fame race car driver that made never win a championship. And who knows what would have happened, but certainly we do know this. If he

would have had better pit stops, he'd had a much better shot. It is a team sport. And we take Pit Crews for granted. They're the special teams of NASCAR. I mean, you expect to feel good or kick 38 yard feel good. It's not as easy as they make it look. They worked really hard. It gives Pit Crews. They were all the news early in the year,

right? They've changed the way they're doing things. And they went all in on Pit stops. And it looked like their strategy was, we got beat. We lost a championship because pit stops. And we're not going to have that happen again. And they went all in on Pit Crews. And it didn't work out. And wasn't from a lack of effort. But it just worked out for Bill.

But it didn't work out for Denny and Gabe Hart. And I have Anthony Chris Gabe Hart, too, because I have so much respect for Chris. And he's a racer's racer. And I'm a huge fan of his love talking to him. I get smarter every time I talk to him. And I have a lot of empathy for him as well. He's got that perfect blend of old

school racer and new school engineer. Yeah. I really like Chris. So moving on, another driver, you might feel some empathy for going back to the Saturday Xfandy race. Brandon Jones gets clobbered by his teammate, Tai Gibbs on the last restart. Tai Gibbs won the race. Brandon Jones gets eliminated from the championship for Joe Gibbs and Koi Gibbs, both addressed this afterward. Joe Gibbs said that every

week is a learning experience for Tai. He hopes he learns from that. That Joe Gibbs racing didn't want this to happen. Koi Gibbs, who of course, Tai Gibbs' father, said that they were disappointed. And that he's told Tai he needs to temper his aggression. Looking forward to Phoenix now, Jeff. How do you think this plays out? I mean, Tai Gibbs is already racing against three junior

motor sports cars. There's a fourth car. And now there's Brandon Jones, who's going to be racing for junior motor sports next year, is Tai Gibbs maybe racing against five JRM cars in a way with Brandon Jones switching teams early for Phoenix. This is going to come back on him right away, do you think? Now we're Brandon. I mean, Brandon's such a nice young man. I don't

know that that's what he's about. I do think that he won't give me breaks for me. And I think that if he's a round Brandon, Brandon's going to race the hell out of him. But I don't see Brandon reckoning. They might wreck while they're racing, because Brandon's not giving him any room. That could happen. I do think that when we talked about this for Ross Chastain

a lot that really never happened. Like all the payback talk, that there were some things, but nothing really paid him back. But you do write a permission slip to those, because everybody's watching. And so if you're willing to wreck your teammate, to win a race, you damn sure know he was willing to wreck you to win a championship. So if drivers go by the creed of,

I race them the way they race me, then he's giving everybody a permission slip. And I don't think that junior motorsports drivers will race each other like that. But they all are probably willing to race him like that, because he showed that he's willing to do that. And every one of those junior motorsports drivers that I listen to make comments, like we don't do that here.

We don't do that here. We're a team here. Now they're going to race each other hard, really hard. And they might wreck, but it'll simply be a racing incident. But I don't think that same courtesy be given to Ty. Ty better be really fast and get away from him. And don't give them an opportunity, because Ty clearly said to the world, I don't know how more

clearly you could be. That I'm going to do what I got to win a race. So that means that you can do it to him. And going back to what Joe Gibbs said, that every week is a learning experience for Ty. I mean, he's still very young. He's going to the Cup Series, we think, next year hasn't been announced yet. But is Ty Gibbs ready to

go to the Cup Series based on what you've seen? I have been the guy saying, Ty Gibbs should go a Cup racing because of his talent. There are moments like these that I wonder if he's mature enough. And when I talk to Ty, leave convinced that he is. Ty's been very open. We've had really good conversations, casual, running to each other. And Ty's always been nothing

but respectful to me and giving me time. But what I watched on Saturday, what Ty said was he made a mistake. He was trying to move him out of the way, which I'm OK with. He felt like he got moved out of the way earlier on the restart. So he moved him out of the way. I'm OK with that. We can't have it both ways. We

can't say drivers shouldn't help a guy win a championship and then condemn them when they race each other hard. So I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you do do that and you celebrate like you don't give a damn. You don't care that that was your grandfather's race car that you just wrecked. You don't care that the team

members that are in your shop could have had a chance to compete for a championship. You don't care that Brandon Jones has been at Joe Gibbs racing for the amount of time that he's been there. You don't care. It's only about you. And it's his family's team. And he should be more aware of how that affects his family than anyone else. I'm not sitting here saying

he'd write you my purpose, but show some remorse. I mean, show. Apologize to Brandon Jones's sponsor, who's my family. My man burns the, come into the checkered is celebrating already. I mean, he is so excited and so happy and so elated about what and proud of himself. That's the problem I got. And so can we not take a step back and recognize the damage done to

the people that love you and the people that have given you this opportunity that by the way, you have chosen, you have shown you deserve. My man can drive a damn race car. So when people say he'd just go Gibbs grandfather, okay, fine. Guess what? Richard Petty gave Kyle Petty a chance. Davey Allison got a chance by Bobby Allison. This is a family sport. And there

are families that help, right? That kid has proven that he's a race winner. He's proven it. So forget the, he's a silver spoon, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. He's proven he can win races. Yes, he's had breaks and opportunities, but he's proven he can do it. So when you ask me if he's ready to cup race, we already know how much harder cup is than an

extended. He's shown it to us. If you took Todd Gillen, Harrison Burton, Ty Gibbs and put him in the expended, they all be racing like hell for the wins. But here they race for 20th, every one of them. It's a lot harder. And so Ty in my opinion has done a good job in the cup car. He had the mistake on pit road, made that mistake.

Other than that, he stayed in his, like he's brunch 20th, 25th, 28th, struggled, hasn't caused a wreck. You know what I mean? He's done a nice job in a difficult situation. So the driving part of it, yeah, I've been impressed with him in a cup. Oh, there's have not been. I'm the opposite. I'm like, okay, he's running 28, but he's not so mad that he's, you

know, spinning the thing out, wrecking it, like, all right, he's not doing those things. He should be, he should be commended for those things. I just, I didn't like, and it doesn't matter what I think, right? But I didn't, it concerns me that he couldn't take a step back from his own personal game and recognize, that would affect it more than just that one race car

driver, and not a competitor. That team is not a competitor. They're a teammate owned by your grandfather. So that concerned me. I think Ty Gibbs is a respectful young man. I think, like I said, he is always treated me for respect. He's a really good race car driver. He's got a great future. He's got to find a way, and it's hard to do. He's got to

find a way for the young man that you sit down and talk to to know when that dude needs to come out and when selfish Ty needs to come out. You have to have a split personality. You have to, the very best can do it. Joey Logano is the very best at it. Ty's got to find a way to do that. I think he can, for

sure, and he's got to let some people help him. And you can't put your grandfather in that situation. You know what I mean? It's not fair to put your grandfather in that situation. Not fair to put your father in that situation. You've got to take a step back and see the big picture. And I will say this in defense of Ty. It's coming a few weeks

after a conversation about helping a teammate and a guy got penalized for helping a teammate. Yeah. This was definitely the antipysis of that. So you can't, don't look at this in a vacuum. He's got that. He's got to deal with. He's struggling on Sundays. He's trying to win races. He's a hungry race car driver. He's a young man learning how to do all this. He's doing

it in front of the public. But he signed up for it. Now why is making him do it? Just like the bubble wall is saying, like you can come out of this stronger. Like you can come out of this smarter, stronger, and better if you're willing to. Right? And I think he is. I don't think Ty gives wants to be in this sport. And he wants

to win. He wants to beat your ass, which is awesome. That's how he should be. But he just has to do better than what we saw on Saturday. Maybe next year, when we all expect he'll be in the cup series and he's not in the bright lights as much. Maybe those hard knocks, he takes, those lessons will get imparted a little bit easier than they were

when he's up front, containing for victories. Well, that's what I think he's done that. I mean, I think what he's done on Sundays has been really good. And I think it's been good for him. And I think that might add to his Saturday. I gotta get you. You know what I mean? Good point. Because I'm running 30th in this thing. What is going on? What's happening?

And over here I can win. I mean, that probably has something to do with it too. Sunday certainly is the big stage. And we'll close up by talking about next Sunday at Phoenix, the Cup Championship 4 Preview. So four drivers, Joey Logano, Christopher Bell, Chase Elliott, Ross Chastain, going for the title. I was looking at this earlier today, Jeff. And it's interesting because you've got two

guys in Logano and Elliott. I mean, former champions, they clearly have the experience edge. But you look at the other two guys. I mean, Bell and Chastain, they certainly have the momentum. Chase had a decent martins of all the first two stages, but kind of faded. He probably, he's already qualified. So maybe they were looking at it differently. But I feel like you can make a

case for each of these drivers. And with the season we're having, I mean, certainly expect the unexpected. I wouldn't be surprised if any of these guys wins the championship. The biggest challenge, free race, and going into the race with the right mindset, I think is going to be Ross. Because he's a very private person, doesn't really want to hang out with a bunch of people. And

he is not going to be able to do that. All the way up until the race, he's going to be, even with the media like he's never dealt with before. Every minute of his life will be scheduled from like Wednesday onward through Sunday and the green flag. Now, some of his altercations throughout the year preparing for it, right? Being put in awkward situations where you have

to defend yourself, you have to, right? Some of that's helped preparing. Two have been here, done that. Joey Logano is going to go in there and be comfortable. Chase Elliott is going to go in there, be Chase Elliott. He's the same no matter what. Even Christopher Bell. He's two walk off must win situations and he gets it done. He's ready for this. And he's race for

championships. He's right. He's been here. He's done that. I think the nerves will be, does Matt. We saw Danny Hamlin. They don't have to deal with harbick messing with him, you know? So I'm not going to be sure. But it'll be interesting to see how they look on Thursday. How they feel around the media. How they feel, right? Because that there's transfer. It knocks you off

of your rhythm. You hear Super Bowl players talk about it the week before the game is completely different. NBA players talk about it. And it's real. So who can put all that behind them? As far as who's the fastest? I'm going to Christopher Bell. Hmm. Interesting. I mean, Joey Logano leading a bunch of races right now. Chase Elliott leading a bunch of races right now. Is

Ross Chastain leading a bunch of races right now? This is where I think you can make a case for all of them. Because again, like, Bell won New Hampshire. That's got some similarities to fence. But Chastain finished second in Phoenix to Briscoe in March. And Joey Logano is one of their twice. Joey Logano is one of their twice. Chase Elliott won the championship by winning in

Phoenix in 2020. But you like Bell. I like Bell, but you said it best. Every any one of these four can win this championship. And this is the year that one of them won. One of them won't win the race. There's so many good teams out there. Kyle Arson, owner championship. So you think this will be the year the champion doesn't win the race for the

first time ever. This is the best opportunity for that to happen. I don't know. 19 winners this season. If anybody says they know what's going to happen in 2022, they're definitely lying. But this is the best possibility for it to happen. Especially since there's really a fifth car in there with Kyle Arson racing for the owner championship. Because he's in his mind. He's racing for the

championship. He's motivated. And by the way, that's where all the money is. Right. When I say that, you're not racing just for your money. Because the driver gets just a fraction of the money gets paid, you're racing for everybody in that shop shares that money in some form of fashion. And it's a big difference. Right. It's a much larger. And that's the reason why Chastain's move

was so important. Because with that last lap move, he knocked Chase Elliott out of the team owner. He took a chance away from Rick Hendrick. Another chance. Two shots. Now he's only got one. And now if Chastain wins a championship, trackhouse gets that team owner money. So Larsen's going in there wanting to win even though his name won't be on it. So really you have five

going at it. And that changes the game, especially when it's Larsen. Because he's always going to be a threat. But you know, it is. I say this is the best chance. I think it is the best chance for somebody to win the race. It doesn't win the championship. But we also have seen drivers and team rise to a whole another level. And I think some of

that is, if you're a dini ham and you're deflated. I mean, those guys that didn't make it, they're all deflated. And it's hard to bring the same. enthusiasm and the same. And it matters. It's so hard to bring that same. And now we're not just talking about another race. We're talking about championship race. And stage points don't matter for those guys. They can approach it. It's

like all four of them are just like, we're here to win nothing else matters. Correct. And one of them won't let them rail at some point in a race. And they'll have to do some stuff. And you know, you get up, you actually get a real practice this weekend. Who can take advantage of that? There's a different race. The championship race is a different race than

every other race. It is. The prep is different. The amount of time the driver has to spend doing things other than just prepping for the race. They're going to be in Arizona when normally they'd be in a sim. I mean, it's your day earlier, at least a day earlier. In some cases, two days earlier. It's a different weekend. And it does matter. There's no question it

matters. You wake up Sunday and you got a long time to hold the race starts and you know what's on the line. And although it's an awesome experience, it's what you've fought your whole life to do. It's stressful to hell. And anybody that says it's not a line, it's stressful. But I like bail for a lot of reasons. I'm one of the things I got the

fastest car. Number two, he's had two moments where you had to deliver and he did. So he knows he can do it. Let's do it again. The mayor is spoken. I like Carl Orson to win the race. I'm not having a try to pick a champion. We'll see how it all plays out Sunday. Thanks for being here, Jeff. Nice having you. We appreciate Jeff Burton for

joining us on the NASCAR NBC podcast. Thanks to Motorsports Manager Emily Convoy for coordinating the mayor's appearance. So it all comes down to this NASCAR is at Phoenix Raceway this weekend to crown champions in its three major national series. You can check out mbcsports.com slash NASCAR for detailed schedules, start times, and coverage as always. This is a weekend of must watch events on NBC and Peacock.

It all begins with the horses at the Breeders Cup Saturday at 3.30 p.m. Eastern, followed by the Tigers, Clems and Tigers, taking on Notre Dame football in South Bend, and capped off with Saturday Night Live. The action continues Sunday with the NASCAR Cup Series championship at 3 p.m. Eastern, and the Titans battling the chiefs in Sunday Night Football, starting at 7 p.m. Eastern, all of those

events Saturday and Sunday on NBC and Peacock. And for the Cup Series coverage of the championship season finale, we'll get started Sunday at 1.30 p.m. Eastern on NBC. If you have any NASCAR and NBC podcasts feedback, you can send me on Twitter at Nate Ryan is my name. Thanks again for listening to the NASCAR and NBC podcast.gameriwus.ac Unfortunately, you have to announced so many