Martinsville: Ross Chastains wild ride; does NASCAR need to address future moves; Christopher Bells must-win moment; Ty Gibbs possible title repercussions

Hi, I'm Martin, the GAS Card of the C-P<|it|><|translate|> podcast. I'm the host Dave Ryan here with Jeff Furt who has graciously agreed to join me, volunteered to join me for our post Martinsville NASCAR NMC podcast episode, setting up the championship for it Phoenix. We've got a lot to talk about and I'm so glad that the mayor has been here to join me. He's not even on

the show tonight and you came in to do this. Well, it's Halloween. I want to show off my audience. So I'm sure you're very festive. Yes, and who wouldn't be after this race Sunday at Martinsville? So it was won by Christopher Bell, which was amazing in its own right because it's the second time in the playoffs. He's had this must win situation and fulfilled that. We're

going to get to Christopher Bell, but we've got to start with Ross Chastain and this move that he made on the final lap, Jeff. He's essentially won the team Ra has been tweeted Allen Lee Mitch scene here for final base cars in their show tonight at the NFL hit at the end of the tooth in the back, but he had the wenig and Memphis. When we

finished regular day before the least organization show with, Top Dad all in around this show named appears a patient lem Swampzaday putting on the ag Puis ata in ready shows He pinned his car to the wall through turns three and four, drove into the wall at 130 miles an hour, kept it there all the way around, went from tenth to fifth and ensured that he would

make the championship for. So I guess I'll just start with like the most basic of questions. How did this work? Why is driving into the wall at 130 miles an hour and keeping it pinned there? Why does that go faster than being on the bottom, which is the shortest way around? Well essentially, not only did it, he put it in fifth gear. So knowing that he

was going to be fat going faster, he had the wearer with all to switch to put it in fifth gear, standing in the gas, put it against the wall on the back straight away so he could enter all the way against the wall. And then when everybody's off the gas, he's using the wall to keep him from spinning out or moving out the racetrack or wrecking.

I mean, he's actually using the wall to keep himself from wrecking and just stayed in the gas. Literally by the work that I've done, probably going 50 to 60 miles per hour faster in the center of the corner than everybody else. And it looks like a hundred mile an hour faster, but simply, he literally used the wall to keep from wrecking and carrying that much speed.

I wonder how much the new car had to do with that, right? So you got different wheels, different tires, different body, all that kind of stuff. I wonder how big of an impact that had and the ability to do that because it's not the first time we've seen it tried. Carl Edwards tried it at Kansas, but he did it wrong. He tried it. He drove from

the inside. Yeah, he needed to enter from the top and be on the wall when he entered and then he go all the way around and it might have worked. We've seen at Darminton, we've seen it try it a couple times. Carl Larson did try it last year, didn't work. And this year in the city race, Sheldon Creek. Sheldon Creek tried it and it got about

halfway around the corner before it quit working. And so I wonder how much the car had to do with that, but just and he said he did it playing video games as a kid. I think the first time I ever saw a race car do that was on GameCube 2005 GameCube like console. I don't know if anybody else in the world had does, but we did

and my brother Chad beat me doing it at the fictitious. I think it was Dodge raceway. And he said that he came all turn to and said, well, why don't I try this? It wasn't premeditated. I don't know. I wonder if it wasn't, if they didn't spend some time working on it in the film or I wonder. Because how does that just pop in your head?

I mean, I don't know. I'm not a video gamer. I grew up just past the video game thing. But what an incredible move. What an incredible show of resilience, never quit, do anything, try anything. I mean, just incredible. I mean, I feel like I've done this for a long time. I've done as long as Kyle or DJ and those guys, but I've never seen anything to

compare it to. Watching it in person was like, I initially for that one millisecond thought his throttle hung and that somehow he had made the wise decision to put it against the wall, put it just a millisecond. And then I recognize, this is on purpose. And we've seen it in person. It was so much faster than everybody else. It didn't look real. And on TV, it

doesn't either, but in person, it didn't look real. It looks like he's running out of two or three times speed versus normal speed. Not below him. And I mean, hey, I all credit to him. I mean, Danny Hamlin, it's got to be, had to wake up this morning doing what the hell. All credit to him. But again, a sign of, I'm going to do anything, which

is exactly why Justin Mark's hearting. And he said that after the race and his interview, I think with Dylan Welch, Justin Marks said, I mean, honestly, it just goes back to the fact that we've got somebody sitting in this race car that wants it more, I think, than anybody else out here and will rethink what's possible. Sometimes you have to be willing to do things that

other people just won't do and just put it online and that's what Ross Chastain has been all about. Oliver. Ross Chastain has been all about that all year long. He's calm just driving down. If you think about the playoffs, he's been really smart. Being a fast race car driver, but a smart race car driver put them in position to go to Phoenix and then to do

it, though, to cap it all off. He had to do that. He had to go somewhere that other people wouldn't go and think about things in a way that other people don't think about it. And so I've been critical of Ross and how he has been in so many wrecks that were his fault, but I've never been critical of Ross and his care and his effort

and his dedication and his want to. Those things are real and that's what makes him a really good race car driver. We saw it again on Sunday. I mean, the willingness to do things that other people won't do and be comfortable with the outcome. That's what's made Ross Chastain. That's what's got him here. I mean, honestly, that's what's got him here. He's made some people mad

along the way, but he's done what he's had to do to get himself to be a full-time cop driving great, driving great equipment and now he's racing for championship. And it all starts with that want to and that desire and willingness to be comfortable when others aren't. I want to go back to what you said, Jeff, about the Sim because Ross is a little bit cagey.

I think sometimes in reviewing exactly how much prep he does, he clearly does a ton of homework and a ton of prep. And this reminded me a little bit. He didn't really own up to this move either, but at the year and after Apple's Motor Speedway Road Course this year, he's the guy on that final restart who takes the escape route because NASCAR hasn't really put

out a discernible specific rule here and he essentially just passes everybody and almost shoots in the lead and wins the race doing something that no one else had thought of, no one else had done. Martin's Will Speedway has been around since 1947. Has this move always been sort of available, but I guess to your point, the car just hasn't really been there? I mean, has any

driver just looked at this and said, you know what, maybe if I just panned against the wall and mashed the throttle, I'll be able to pass everybody? You know, I heard Joey say, Joe Ligano say that we all did it racing video games, right? I was just ahead of the video game stuff. Like when, you know, it just says a younger guy, video games about Tari,

you know, was froggered. You know, like it wasn't, wasn't very realistic. So I'd never got into it at all. And when you hear those guys talk about, we, you know, and I remember watching Harrison play racing games and they're doing all kinds of crazy stuff, right? And I'm like, what the hell are you doing? You know, that's not real life, right? But yeah, just I don't

know that it's always been available or not. I don't know if you did that in a truck or an Xfinity car with a result, or a late model. I don't know what the result would be. I just don't know. I think we're going to find out because if you're a race car driver, so just in Mark's comments, I don't agree that he wants to more than

everybody else. I don't agree with that. I think that's disrespectful to all the other drivers out there. I will agree that he is willing to do some things that others won't. It doesn't mean he wants it more. That means that he's willing to do some things. He's willing to think differently than some other people do, right? But I don't think he wants it more than Tyler

Rettick or Ryan Blaney or Chase Elliott, you know what I mean or anybody. But he is willing to think out of the box and he's learning how to be comfortable with who he is. And that really got pushed this year, right? It really did. I think that Ross was trying to figure out, okay, how can I be successful, be selfish, which I think you have to

be. Fit into this. I don't need to be buddies with all of them, but I do have to fit in, right? And how do I do all that, right? And then we saw, in my opinion, we seen in the last several races, we really smart in how he raced. Didn't get himself in trouble, lived to fight another day, got really good finishes, and then he does

this. And it shows you what he's willing to do. And it shows you that his, I think Justin said it well, he thinks about willing to think about things differently. And you know, that part I will agree with 100%. Yeah. Because no one else has tried it at Martin'sville. I mean, did get tried at Darrington, but it got tried at Darrington a little bit with desperation,

like not even that, but part of it, you know, but it was, I don't know. It was fun to see, it was a crazy moment of one of the most memorable moments in the sports history. It has to be. And now what do we go from here? And that's a little bit of a concern. So if you're driving a late model with the big late model

race at Martin'sville, next fall, and you're running second, and you just saw Ralph's chest saying, do this, what do you do? Yeah. Right? And so I think that we do have as a sport, we do have a question to ask ourselves, where do we go from here? Which I think Ross could take a lot of pride in. When you make an industry think about how you

deal with something that you just did in a positive way, that's a, that's a ultimate compliment in my opinion. Well, so we still got one race left to go here. We got the championship race at Phoenix. And Steve with Tart was saying this morning that he thinks teams are probably in the simulator today. Monday morning, figuring out, can we do this in terms of three and

four? You know, all this talking about always, oh, do you cut the dog like at Phoenix? Now it's like, can we pinch against the wall? Like Ross just came to the Martinsville and tried to gain spots that way. After Martinsville, Kyle Larson said that this was embarrassing. Joey Ligano said NASCAR needs to address it. I guess two questions. First we'll address, does NASCAR need to come

out and do something about this prior to Phoenix? Do they need to lay out some new ground rules for Phoenix based on what happened to Martinsville? So listen, I probably no one sits on the fence in this conversation, right? I'm always trying to find a little bit of middle ground and solutions. So the reason it was spectacular and the reason it was amazing is because such

a rare event. If at the last lap of every race, someone is up there against the wall trying to make this happen, it becomes no longer spectacular. It becomes whatever it becomes. Like it's not always going to work. And it won't work in a truck the way it would in a vicinity car to way it would in a curb car. I don't know which would it

work and not. I don't know. But at some point it becomes if that's the way you have to run the last lap of a race or I mean, why would you do it qualifying? Why would you do it qualifying and get the number one spot and get your backup car out starting to back and have the number one spot on pit road? So it starts this

spiral. Slippery slope. Yeah. If you were, let's say you were one of the Xfinity teams, number one pit box at Phoenix gets determined off qualifying at Martinsville and you know you're in the playoffs. We're just wrapping around turn three and four and run two seconds faster. Everybody else, destroy your car and get the backup out. Run 15th on the Xfinity race, but you know your P1

on pit road the next week. That's the problem. And so you know I hear people say you know it's stupid to be thinking about a rule. It's stupid to be. But you got to think down the road. Because once you open Pandora's box, you know what's going to come flying out of it. And so all credit to Ross Chastain. And I am in no way. I

have no negative feelings about what Ross Chastain did. When I look at how does it affect what you do in the future, it's real. Because teams and drivers will find a way to manipulate everything. And now you've shown people that you can do it and you can't work if you do it a certain way. And so I think it's foolish to just say, well that was

great. It was awesome. So we shouldn't think about it anymore. I think that's a stupid way to look at things. You have to look at how this affects the things down the road. You can say it was awesome and also say, well, is that what we want to see every week? And when people say, well, this is the once in a lifetime thing. It's never worked

before. We're never going to see it again. Bullshit. That's wrong. You're going to see it attempted way more than you've ever seen it attempted before. Because it worked. Nobody tried it before because Carl Edwards tried it. It didn't work. Kyle Arson almost made it work. Sheldon Creed almost made it work. And you can't tell me people didn't watch that for Garnton thinking, hey, you know what?

Because I can tell you I did. It's been in the back of my mind and I got a kid that races and I can guarantee you before the hour and then we were going to be having a conversation about this. So an ask car should address it before the time. I think something has to be addressed. And I think there should be a detailed conversation about

it. Like what does need to be addressed? And it'd be silly just to bury your head in the sand and say it doesn't matter. Let them do whatever they want. What if Kuzlowski and Hamlin get together, coming to get the checkered, Kuzlowski spins up into the outside wall, Ross Chastain is hitting him going 60 mile an hour faster. He was entering turn three is there exiting

pretty much turn four. So they get together. He's sailing in that with no hope. No way he could have stopped. No way. What if those two weren't as far down the corner as they were when he called them, they were on the straight. There's conversations that have to be had about it. And that doesn't mean that I didn't think it was an awesome move. It just

means that whenever something like that happens, it can change the sport. And is it a good change? Is it a bad change? We don't have tandem drafting anymore. There was nothing not pure about that. We did it because it worked. Got rid of it. So we've seen it before. So my brought up Frank Stodder and I with the rule, we got him at the All Star

race. There wasn't a rule and we took advantage of it. Well then they created a rule. I mean that's a fair point. So it wouldn't happen again. So it'd be foolish not to look at it. Should they address it? I think so. But it's got to be addressed in the right way. And that's where it gets difficult. For Phoenix. I would like to see him address

it. Would it be as simple as creating a rule that says if you ride the wall in the last lap you can't gain a spot? I think it would be as simple as saying is that in our judgment you used the wall to create an advantage the way where all the chassis did at Martin'sville. You're going to be the last car to leave that. Long term

because it's due to the car, should they look at ways? I don't see how you do it. The car is pretty much a big. I think you have to. I think if the industry decides it's not in the best interest of the sport then I think you almost have to make a rule. And I hate saying this. But you almost have to make a rule. It's

a judgment call. Because you can't have a guy going up, hitting the wall. You know, and he gains a spot. You know, oh he touched the wall. He can't have that. But if you deliberately, you know, if you're off-chastain it, there's going to be a penalty. Like, yeah, just that simple. And there'll be a million questions from it. But you'll know when you see it, NASCAR

would have to make a call. And I hate that. Yeah, because I've heard you say a million times. The problem with rules is when you make them, you have to enforce them. The second part of this question I want to get back to Kyle Larson said he thought this was embarrassing. It was a moment that went viral. The tweet with the video on the NASCAR NBC

account has been viewed more than five million times as we sit here talking today. So it's not as if this was bad for NASCAR in terms of exposure. Does it put NASCAR in a bad light at all because of the way it looks? Oh, thanks. But listen, I think it's just simply a guy going the extra mile to make something happen. This is something we see

every week. It was an extraordinary move made by somebody that was very hungry, make trying to make something happen. The problem is it becomes embarrassing if it's every week. I don't see how you couldn't say that. I don't see anybody that's been around racing and understands what racing is about could think that that being part of the sport here moving forward on a weekly basis is

a good thing. At that point, it's not a good thing. This was great for NASCAR. So here's one of the beef. Here's what somebody's saying. Oh, my God. It was great for NASCAR. You hated it. So you don't understand it. You're trying to ruin my sport. It can be great and not great long term. I mean, not everything that happens, we need to keep doing it.

And that's what's gotten us in trouble in the past. We need to recognize, okay, that was a great moment. And he should be celebrated for that moment. 100%, but I don't not so sure we need to see it every week. And I'm not saying we would. I just, I don't know. I don't know where this would go. I'm all for celebrating the move and giving Ross

Chastain a ton of credit for having just the foresight, the ingenuity, whatever you want to call it to make this move, the bravery. But all that being said, it makes me a little bit leery about it. Maybe I'm too namby-pampy about this, but this has been a season in which there have been head injuries. And we just had Tyler Reddick tweet today that he left his

car during the race Sunday because his head wasn't right after he got hit in his car. And he's going to see a doctor to make sure he can get cleared for Phoenix. Does it feel awkward at all to celebrate a guy driving into a wall at 130 miles an hour? Man. I mean, I don't want to, like, we celebrate. What's awesome about race car drivers is

they're willing to do things most people won't. Right. And Ross Chastain was comfortable doing it. And so I don't have a problem with that part of it. Man, I don't have a problem with Harley any of it, other than where does the lead is from here. And now I will say this. I heard some comments today that because some people don't believe we should do this

moving forward, they're trying to ruin this sport. What does silly take? Like their opinion disagrees with you. So you they're trying to ruin this sport. They're intentionally, they're intentionally trying to ruin my sport. Come on. A driver making a comment about what he thinks is in the best interest of the sport. It's not intentionally trying to ruin the sport. It's his opinion on what could help

the sport. It might be different than yours. It's completely disrespectful for someone just because they disagree with you. They're trying to ruin the sport. That's what's gotten us in this shape we're in the country now where we can't have conversations and debate, right? You and I can sit here and argue like hell about something and we're going to leave here and go drag a beer and

have respect. But how do you, how do you show, how can you say that you're being disrespected because they don't believe you by telling them, by disrespecting them. And there's a lot of that going on right now that's silly. Like it's okay to have a discussion about where we are as a sport and how to move it forward even if we disagree on how to do

that. Everybody takes that thing so personal man, I don't understand. At hominem and tax man, they're bad. Before we leave Ross Chastain, I just want to go back to, he deserves a ton of credit for being brave enough to do this. And I agree with you, like I think Justin Marx is a little bit flawed in saying that it's not that anybody wants it more than

Ross. It's just that Ross is willing to maybe do things that other guys wouldn't. I mean, is he braver, is he, is he crazier in some ways that he's willing to do that where maybe another driver wouldn't? Or I guess it maybe is just as simple as other drivers didn't think of it. Like maybe if Chase was going to ride his eyes, that's going to work.

I'll try it. I think that most of them if they believed it will work, we'll be willing to try it. Now most of them weren't thinking that way. I mean, it's out of the box thinking, right? Like it's not. Like you said, it's Ross Chastain. I mean, Dale Jr., who raised for how many years and I, who raised for how many years, we're looking at a

win to doing what the hell are we watching? Right? I mean, we wouldn't have thought about it. Or I damn sure wouldn't have. I shouldn't have said it to Junior, but I certainly wouldn't have thought about it. So Christopher Bell, who you have said since mid season, Jeff, I'll give you a ton of credit after his New Hampshire win, you came on the NASCAR NBC podcast

and talked about how you thought he's the fastest guy at Joe Gibbs Racing and he'd been saying that. And now it's empirically true. He's the only Joe Gibbs Racing driver who has advanced the championship for and he's done it in this clutch way twice in a row. He wanted the roval to get the round of eight. He wins at Martin's field to get to the championship

for. What more can you say about Christopher Bell in the number 20? He's ready. And we know what kind of talent he is. You know, he's with Adam Stevens who has experience been there, done that. Christopher Bell now has the right amount of his own experience. Been in these pressure field situations. He's ready. He's ready to show the world what he can do. And I find

it, I think he's just an exceptional talent. He's got the right mindset. He's focused on racing and he's intently paying attention all the time. And he's just good. And he's only going to get better. And then mainly when I look at him and his eye and I've known him for a long time, he's super confident. I belong here at Christopher Bell. He's always been a little

bit to me, not exceptionally confident, like question his self a little bit. I don't see that at all today. When I look at Christopher Bell and talk to Christopher Bell, he knows he belongs here. He believes he can win this championship, not a question of my mind. And I think when you take that much talent, add experience, confidence, they become very, very dangerous. Do you think

some of that insecurity might have been the fact that he didn't come from the stock car background. He's not used to running longer races. It was a sort of a matter of getting accepted. Like the talent was always there. It was just needed the experience. It was also contrary to what a lot of our fans think. You don't get here without being successful. And you also

don't get here without help. And if you're not successful, you're not going to be here. And he knows that. And so there's always this insecurity of do I belong. Can I make it? Can I? And if you're not, then you're arrogant, right? Because you're going against Kevin Harvick and Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin. And think about who is in his own team that he has to

be. That's a lot to ask. And he's found a way to do it. So I think that some of his past insecurities are just the simple, this is hard. And if I don't make it, what am I doing in the rest of my life? And I think that a lot of race car drivers have that. What do you think that team has in terms of being

a not just driver? He's clutched. And Feevens had to make two critical pit calls to win both of these races as well. He's a two time champion crew chief. Maybe it's that simple. But does that team have something extra? So a little bit of it has been they had no choice. Yeah, true, true. And I don't mean that any disrespect. I have so much respect to

Adam Stevens. But we talk a little bit about how I don't believe it's an advantage. But it does give you a clear path in what you have to do when you're in must win situations. Chase Brisco doesn't stay out on old tires if he wasn't in a must win situation. So some of those strategies get made, your situation forces you into making them. So no disrespect

to Adam Stevens at all. But it kind of laid out there for him. I got to do this. And then he made the right call. He didn't stay out on old tires. He decided to pit. And I'm going to put my guy on offense. But there's no advantage in not being ahead in points. But there is, but it does clear to the pathway for your decision

sometimes. So you mentioned it earlier, Denny Hamlin. If you were to told Denny Hamlin, you're going to win both stages. You're going to finish fifth in this race. I think he would like these chances of advancing. But I mean, Bell seizes the moment when, no other way to say this, Hamlin's pit crew pretty much fumbles this way. I mean, it looked like Denny Hamlin's in position

to win this race until the number 11 crew had three fairly mediocre stops. Denny Hamlin's still a lot of championship. Now he's not going to be in the championship round for the first time since 2018. And then, the empathy for what Hamlin's gone through here. Yes, yes. They're really good race team. He's a really good race car driver in position doing his job. And they just

didn't deliver. And it's just that simple. I mean, Pit Road is vital. And you have to have good pit stops. And you have to deliver when the moment's big. And they just didn't. It's just that simple. They didn't deliver. And you lost track position. It was very difficult to pass until Tarzerole. Once Tarzerole, we saw a lot of passing. But it took a while for that

to happen. And with Kevin losing those spots, and it wasn't enough time left in a race to make them up. And so, yeah, I have a lot of empathy for Denny Hamlin. He's a Hall of Fame race car driver that made everyone a championship. And who knows what would have happened, but certainly we do know this. If he had a better pit stop, he'd had a

much better shot. It is a team sport. And we take Pit Crews for granted. They're the special teams of NASCAR. I mean, you expect to feel good, kick 38 yard feel goal. It's not as easy as they make it look. They worked really hard. They give us Pit Crews. They were all the news early in the year. They've changed the way they're doing things. And they

went all in on pit stops. And it looked like their strategy was, we got beat. We lost a championship because Pit stops. And we're not going to have that happen again. And they went all in on Pit Crews, and it didn't work out. They wasn't from a lack of effort. But it just worked out for Bill, but it didn't work out for Danny and Gabe Hart.

And I have Anthony Chris Gabe Hart too, because I have so much respect for Chris. And he's a racer's racer. And I'm a huge fan of his love talking to him. I get smarter every time I talk to him. And I have a lot of empathy for him as well. He's got that perfect blend of old school racer and new school engineer. Yeah, yeah. I really

like Chris. So moving on, another driver, you might feel some empathy for going back to the Saturday Xfandy race, Brandon Jones gets clobbered by his teammate, Ty Gibbs. On the last restart, Ty Gibbs won the race. Brandon Jones gets eliminated from the championship for Joe Gibbs and Koi Gibbs, both addressed this afterward. Joe Gibbs said that every week is a learning experience for Ty. He hopes

he learns from that that Joe Gibbs racing didn't want this to happen. Koi Gibbs, who of course, Ty Gibbs's father, said that they were disappointed and that he's told Ty he needs to temper his aggression. Getting forward to Phoenix now, Jeff, how do you think this plays out? I mean, Ty Gibbs is already racing against three junior motor sports cars. There's a fourth car. And now

there's Brandon Jones, who's going to be racing for junior motor sports next year, is Ty Gibbs maybe racing against five JRM cars in a way with Brandon Jones switching teams early for Phoenix? This is going to come back on him right away, do you think? Now we're Brandon. I mean, Brandon's such a nice young man. I don't know that that's what he's about. I do think

that he won't give me breaks for me. And I think that if he's a round Brandon, Brandon's going to race the hell out of him. But I don't see Brandon reckoning. They might wreck while they're racing because Brandon's not giving him any room. That could happen. I do think that when we talked about this for Ross Chastain a lot that really never happened. Like all the

payback talk, you know, that there were some things, but nothing, you know, that really paid him back. But you do write a permission slip to those because everybody's watching. And so if you're willing to wreck your teammate to win a race, you damn sure know he was willing to wreck you to win a championship. So if drivers go by the creed of I race them the

way they race me, then he's given everybody a permission slip. And I don't think that junior motorsports drivers will race each other like that, but they all are probably willing to race him like that because he showed that he's willing to do that. And every one of those junior motorsports drivers that I listen to make comments like we don't do, we don't do that here. We

don't do that here. We're a team here. Now they're going to race each other hard, really hard. And they might wreck, but it'll simply be a racing incident. But I don't think that same courtesy of being given to tie. It's better to be really fast and get away from them. And don't give them an opportunity because Ty clearly said to the world, I don't know how

more clearly you could be. That I'm going to do what I got to win a race. So that means that you can do it to him. And going back to what Joe Gibbs said that every week is a learning experience for Ty. I mean, he's still very young. He's going to the Cup Series, we think, next year hasn't been announced yet. But is Ty Gibbs ready

to go to the Cup Series based on what you've seen? I have been the guy saying Ty Gibbs should go to Cup racing because of his talent. There are moments like these that I wonder if he's mature enough. And when I talk to Ty, leave convinced that he is. Ty's been very open. We've had really good conversations, casual running to each other and Ty's always been

nothing but respectful to me and giving me time. But what I watched on Saturday, what Ty said was he made a mistake. He was trying to move him out of the way, which I'm okay with. He felt like he got moved out of the way earlier than on the restart. So he moved him out of the way. I'm okay with that. We can't have it both

ways. We can't say drivers shouldn't help a guy win a championship and then condemn them when they race each other hard. So I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you do do that and you celebrate like you don't give it to him. You don't care that that was your grandfather's race car that you just wrecked. You don't care

that the team members that could have in your shop could have had a chance to compete for a championship. You don't care that Brandon Jones has been at Joe Gibbs racing for the amount of time that he's been there. You don't care. It's only about you. And it's his family's team. And he should be more aware of how that affects his family than anyone else. I'm

not sitting here saying any right to your own purpose, but show some remorse. I mean show. Apologize to Brandon Jones's sponsor. I mean, my man, my man burns the come into the checkered is celebrate. And already, I mean, he is so excited and so happy and so elated about what and proud of himself. That's the problem I got. And so can we not take a step

back and recognize the damage done to the people that love you and the people that have given you this opportunity that by the way, you have chosen, you have shown you deserve my man can drive a damn race car. So when people say he just go Gibbs grandfather, okay, fine. That's what Richard Petty gave Kyle Petty a chance. Davey Allison got a chance by Bobby Allison.

This is a family sport and there are families that help, right? That kid has proven that he's a race winner. He's proven it. So forget the he's a silver spoon, died, died, died, died, he's proven he can win races. Yes, he's had breaks and opportunities, but he's proven he can do it. So when you ask me if he's ready to cup race, we already know how

much harder cup is than an extended. He's shown it to us. If you took Todd Gillen, Harrison Burton, Ty Gibbs and put him in the expended, they all be racing like hell for the wins. But here they race for 20th, every one of them. It's a lot harder. And so Ty in my opinion has done a good job in the cup car. He had the mistake

on pit road, made that mistake. Other than that, he stayed in his like he's brunch 20th, 25th, 28th, struggled, hasn't caused a wreck. You know what I mean? He's done a nice job. And a difficult situation. So the driving part of it, yeah, I've been impressed with him in a cup. Oh, there's have not been. I'm the opposite. I'm like, okay, he's running 28, but he's

not so mad that he's, you know, spinning the thing out, wrecking it like, all right, he's not doing those things. He should be, he should be commended for those things. I just, I didn't like, and it doesn't matter what I think, right? But I didn't, it concerns me that he couldn't take a step back from his own personal gain and recognize that would affect it more

than just that one race car driver and not a competitor. That team is not a competitor. They're a teammate owned by your grandfather. So that concerned me. I think Ty gives is a respectful young man. I think I, like I said, he is always treated me for respect. He's a really good race car driver. He's got a great future. He's got to find a way and

it's hard to do. He's got to find a way for the young man that you sit down and talk to to know when that dude needs to come out and when selfish Ty needs to come out. You have to have a split personality. You have to, the very best can do it. Joey Lugano is the very best at it. Ty's got to find a way to

do that. I think he can for sure. And he's got to let some people help him. And you can't put your grandfather in that situation. You know what I mean? It's not fair to put your grandfather in that situation. Not fair to put your father in that situation. You got to take a step back and see the big picture. And I will say this in defense

of Ty. It's coming a few weeks after a conversation about helping a teammate and a guy got penalized for helping a teammate. Yeah. This was definitely the antipysis of that. So you can't, don't look at this in a vacuum. He's got that. He's got to deal with. He's struggling on Sundays. He's trying to win races. He's a hungry race car driver. He's a young man learning

how to do all this. He's doing it in front of the public. But he signed up for it. Now why is making him do it? Just like the bubble wall is saying, like you can come out of this stronger. Like you can come out of this smarter, stronger and better if you're willing to. Right? And I think he is. I think Ty gives wants to be

in this sport and he wants to win. He wants to beat your ass, which is awesome. That's how he should be. But he just has to do better than what we saw on Saturday. Next year, when we all expect he'll be in the cup series and he's not in the bright lights as much. Maybe those hard knocks he takes, those lessons will get imparted a little

bit easier than they were when he's up front, containing for victory. Well, that's what I think he's done that. I mean, I think what he's done on Sundays has been really good. And I think it's been good for him. And I think that might add to his Saturday. I got to get you. You know what I mean? Good point. Because I'm running 30th and this thing.

What is going on? What's happening? And over here I can win. And that, you know, that probably has something to do with it too. Today certainly is the big stage. And we'll close up by talking about next Sunday at Phoenix, the Cup Championship for Preview. So four drivers, Joey Logano, Christopher Bell, Chase Elliott, Ross Chastain, going for the title. I was looking at this earlier today,

Jeff. And it's interesting he's got two guys in Logano and Elliott. I mean, former champions, they clearly have the experience edge. But you look at the other two guys. I mean, Bell and Chastain, they certainly have the momentum. Chase had a decent martinsville. The first two stages, but kind of faded. Logano, he probably, you know, he's already qualified, so maybe they were looking at it differently.

But I feel like you can make a case for each of these drivers. And with the season we're having, I mean, certainly expect the unexpected. I wouldn't be surprised if any of these guys wins the championship. The biggest challenge, free race, and going into the race with the right mindset, I think is going to be Ross. Because he's a very private person, doesn't really want to

hang out with a bunch of people. And he is not going to be able to do that. All the way up until the race, he's going to be, even with the media like he's never dealt with before. Every minute of his life will be scheduled from like Wednesday onward through Sunday in the green flag. Now, some of his alterations throughout the year, preparing for it, right?

Being put in awkward situations where you have to defend yourself, you have to, right? Some of that's helped preparing. Two have been here, done that. Joey Logano is going to go in there and be comfortable. Chase Elliott is going to go in there and be Chase Elliott. He's the same no matter what. Even Christopher Bell. He's two walk off must win situations and he gets it

done. He's ready for this and he's race for championships. He's race, he's been here. He's done that. I think the nerves will be, does Matt, we saw Danny Hamlin. They don't have to deal with harbick messing with him, you know? So, I don't think he's your model. But it'll be interesting to see what, how they look, you know, on Thursday, you know, how they feel around

the media, how they feel, right? Because that nurse transferred, not to you off of your, if you're real, you're a Superbowl players talk about it the week before the game is completely different. NBA players talk about it and it's real. So who can put all that behind them? As far as who's the fastest, I'm going to Christopher Bell. Hmm, interesting. I mean, Joey Logano leading a

bunch of races right now. Chase Elliott leading a bunch of races right now. Is Ross Chastain leading a bunch of races right now? This is where I think you can make a case for all of them because like again, like, a bell one new Hampshire, that's got some similarities to fence. But Chastain finished second in Phoenix to Briscoe in March and Joey Logano is one their

twice the most. Joey Logano is one of their twice. Chase Elliott won the championship by winning in Phoenix in 2020, but you like Bell. I like Bell, but you said it best every any one of these four can win this championship. And this is the year that one of them won. One of them won't win the race. There's so many good teams out there. Kyle Arson,

owner championship. So you think this will be the year the champion doesn't win the race for the first time ever. This is the best opportunity for that to happen. I don't know. 19 winners this season. If anybody says they know what's going to happen in 2022, they're definitely lying. But this is the best possibility for it to happen, especially since there's really a fifth car in

there with Kyle Arson racing for the owner championship because he's in his mind. He's race for the championship. He's motivated. And by the way, that's where all the money is. Right. When I say that, you're not racing just for your money because the driver gets just a fraction of the money that gets paid, you're racing for everybody in that shop shares that money in some form

of fashion. And it's a big difference. Right. It's a much larger. And that's the reason why Chastain's move was so important because with that last lap move, he knocked Chase Elliott out of the team owner. He took a chance away from Rick Hendrick. Another chance. Two shots. Now he's only got one. And if Chastain wins a championship, trackhouse gets that team owner money. So Larsen's going

in there wanting to win even though his name won't be on. So really you have five going at it. And that changes the game, especially when it's Larsen because he's always going to be a threat. But you know, it is. I say this is the best chance. I think it is the best chance for somebody to win the race. It doesn't win the championship. But we

also have seen drivers and team rise to a whole another level. And I think some of that is, if you're a ditty ham and you're deflated. If you're, I mean, those guys that didn't make it, they're all deflated. And it's hard to, it's hard to bring the same enthusiasm and the same. And it matters. It's so hard to bring that same. And now we're not just

talking about another race. We're talking about a championship race. And stage points don't matter for those guys. They can approach it. It's like all four of them are just like, we're here to win nothing else matters. Correct. And one of them won't let me tell you at some point in a race and they'll have to do some stuff. And you know, who you get out, you

get up, you actually get a real practice this weekend. Right. Who can take advantage of that? You know, it's a different race. The championship race is a different race than every other race. It is. The prep is different. The amount of time the driver has to spend doing things other than just prepping for the race. They're going to be in Arizona when normally they'd be in

a film. I mean, it's your day earlier, at least the day earlier. In some cases, two days earlier. It's a different, it's a different weekend. And it does matter. There's no question it matters. You wake up Sunday and you got a long time with all the race starts and you know what's on the line. And although it's an awesome experience, it's what you've fought your whole

life to do. It's stressful, it's hell. And anybody that says it's not a line, it's stressful. But I like bail for a lot of reasons. I'm one of the things that got the fastest car. Number two, he's had two moments where you had to deliver and he did. So he knows he can do it. Let's do it again. The mayor is spoken. I like Kyle Larson

to win the race. I'm not having a try to pick a champion. We'll see how it all plays out Sunday. Thanks for being here Jeff. Nice having you. So fun. We appreciate Jeff Burton for joining us on the NASCAR NBC podcast. Thanks to Motorsports Manager Emily Convoy for coordinating the mayor's appearance. So it all comes down to this NASCAR. Is it Phoenix Raceway this weekend to

crown champions in its three major national series? You can check out NBCSports.com slash NASCAR for detailed schedules, start times and coverage as always. This is a weekend of must watch events on NBC and peacock. It all begins with the horses at the Breeders Cup Saturday at 3.30 p.m. Eastern followed by the Tigers, Clemson Tigers, taking on Notre Dame football in South Bend and capped off with

Saturday Night Live. The action continues Sunday with the NASCAR Cup Series Championship at 3 p.m. Eastern and the Titans battling the Chiefs in Sunday Night Football starting at 7 p.m. Eastern. All of those events Saturday and Sunday on NBC and peacock. And for the Cup Series, coverage of the Championship season finale will get started Sunday at 1.30 p.m. Eastern on NBC. If you have any NASCAR

NBC podcast feedback you can send me on Twitter at Nate Ryan as my name. Thanks again for listening to the NASCAR NBC podcast.