Mandy Cohen: Live Sports Producer - WGN-TV Chicago

My first meeting with Michael Jordan, not quite broadcast appropriate, went to my first practice on the road. I was sitting on the sideline of the court, walked in, sat down, everybody was getting ready to start shoot around. I was with two male co-workers. Michael looked around, walked right up to me and said, excuse me, miss. Can you go get me some coffee? Oh, oh yeah. The

two men next to me who know me very well went oh boy. Oh god. I said, excuse me sir and something not so nice came out of my mouth. And he told his head to the side. If it was a movie it would have been breathless silence from everybody. He puts his hand out and he goes, Michael Jordan. Oh. And I said, Mandy Cohen, I'm the

producer here and I do not get coffee. And he said fair enough. And then I said, that being said, I would like some, so I will go find us some coffee. You're talking NBA basketball, you're talking great teams, you're talking great individual players. Takes it off and there's number 23 and of course Johnny goes nuts. I just tried to go up there and play my game.

I have no idea what you're talking about, I don't like anybody. I'm not a thief of the person. Grant, you made the pass, yeah. You catch the ball, yeah. All the stars were aligned and all the muscles spalled at the right time and I was out of the ground and throw one down. I was saving that as a surprise for you. And now introducing your host

for in all airness and a Ryan. Welcome to episode 117. Thanks for joining me. I'm very happy to welcome eight time Emmy Award winner, Mandy Cohen. Mandy witnessed NBA history as a vital member of WGN TV Chicago in a decade where the Bulls won six NBA titles in eight years. This is a fun and insightful conversation. About Mandy's life in sports. Her unique, shall we say,

first conversation with Michael Jordan to the continued impact and influence of Phil Jackson on her life. We discussed the 10 part docky series, the last dance. Mandy's link to the series and a magical moment she witnessed in volume. Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippin that didn't make the cut. Plus we delve into what it was like to cover the Chicago Bulls on a day to day basis

at the height of their collective fame towards the end of the episode. I'll share and I'll see you next time. It would be most appreciated. A quick shout out to a lady who reached out to me from Philadelphia during the week her name is Jacqueline. Much appreciated that you reached out Jacqueline and said hello and you also were hoping for the return of the NBA 88

series. Trust me, it is on its way. Aaron and myself will definitely get back into it at some stage. I do appreciate you reaching out to say hello from Philadelphia. Show notes for this episode. And access to a huge archive of past episodes are available at in all anus.com. Now on to the show. My guests today not only worked for WGN TV Chicago in the 1990s.

She witnessed NBA history as the Chicago Bulls won six titles in eight seasons. Among many strings to her bow. She is an eight time Emmy award winning live sports producer Mandy Cohen. Thanks for joining me. Oh, thanks for having me. I really appreciate you making time to chat today and I'm excited to learn about your history. Just before we get into your tenure with WGN and

the Chicago Bulls, what sports did you play or interest? Did you have when you were a youngster? I believe you were a New York native, but you were raised in Florida. Yes, it's interesting. I tried a number of sports and I'm super short. 5, 3 on a good day. So I didn't fare that well, but I absolutely loved going to sports, watching sports. We had NFL,

season tickets in Miami growing up and went to games with my dad and just watched WGN baseball in South Florida for a long time when I was a kid. And when I was six years old, I told my parents I wanted to produce a Super Bowl. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I always knew what I wanted to do. If I couldn't play, I was going to be

in sports somehow. That's where the career path came from. Now when you're talking about the Miami NFL, that's the dolphins. Is that Don Schulern? Yeah, Don Schulern, Dan Marino. So they were a great team back at that time too, weren't they? Yeah, they were amazing. I actually was so into it. I had posters all over my bedroom as a child of Dan Marino and Dupor and

Clayton who were two big white receivers back then. And my mom would say that people would come over to install something in the room, like a telephone line or whatever. And they would say to her, where would your son like his plug? And my mother would say, for your information, that is my daughter. That is expected because of all the sports stuff. It was a boy.

Exactly. That's good. Now you graduated from Northwestern University in Chicago. Did you have the opportunity to attend Bulls Games at the stadium before you started working with WGN in the 1991 NBA season? I guess you moved from Florida up to Illinois to go to college. You're absolutely five sport. Such a tough answer because every sport has something that I think is awesome. I love baseball. I

think the chess match of pitch to pitch in baseball is just one of the coolest things ever. And if you don't know the game well enough, you might think it's boring. But if you know the game and you can watch for all the details, it's one of the most tension filled sports out there. I love basketball because it has a roof and a clock. So when

you're in sports TV, that is a huge plus for a sport. I actually love the gracefulness of basketball. I think it's a very graceful and fluid sport and fun to watch. As bad as football gets a wrap here in America, it is a very American sport. And I do love it. I grew up most of the games going with my dad. It's such a wonderful memory

I have of spending that time with him and having that bond with him over football. And that's continued my entire life. So I love football for that reason. It's hard to play football. Hey, do you have a fiber guy that you attended when you went to football with your dad talking about your fiber memories? I do. I was at that famous San Diego Miami game where

it was a playoff game. And Dan Fouts was the quarterback for the chargers. And right before half time, there was an incredible play that brought the dolphins back within striking distance. It was a lateral to Tony Nathan. He ran the distance. And I think we cheered all the way through half time. And we ended up losing. But it was just one of the most amazing sporting

events I've ever been to. Only marred by the fact that somehow my dad took my two cousins with us who don't care about football. And don't even know that they could say they were at that game when it comes up amongst like the top 10 best games ever played. They don't even know where they were there. So I'm still bitter about that because I feel like

somebody else would have enjoyed it. But I'll never forget it. It was such a wonderful game, even though we lost. And years later, I met Dan Fouts working and he said to me, you know, it seemed like you liked me. And I'm like, I'm really sorry. That's just the 10 year old in me coming out. I'm like, I was at that game. No way. I'm like,

yes, I kind of hate you. Which is super fun. That's funny. So in terms of your career, just setting the scene here for our listener, WGN and sports channel, with the two broadcasters of the Bulls Championship seasons in the 1990s, sports channel was rebranded to Fox Sports Chicago in early 1998. Our listeners likely familiar with the on air WGN talent of that era, including Wayne Larribee,

the legendary Johnny Redcure and Dan Rowan, just to name three. How did the opportunity to work for WGN present itself? And did it go back even to when you were at Northwestern? It did. Yeah, I started my sophomore year. I got very lucky. I went into interview at WGN for a stage managing position in the booth. I was in the booth with Harry Carey. There were

over 500 applicants for the position. I was the only female. Oh my goodness. Yes. And I think that they, Harry was getting older and slightly can tanker is. And so they said, you know what? Maybe he will be better with her. Let's just give her a try. And so pure luck in my mind that they decided to take that chance. And he and I headed off

very well for some reason. And I was passing him around way better than if a male figure was passing him around. So he and I started a long friendship and wonderful relationship over the eight years that I was there. That's how it started. So I did the summer. And then that rolled right into basketball and whatnot, which was amazing. And again, helped super lucky. Do you

remember? Maybe in that interview, what question or questions may have been the case separating you from everybody else. Aside from the fact that you said you're the only woman there. I don't actually think so. I have been interning at a sports station. I had worked at a station in Miami. I had already worked at the station downtown Chicago for the local NBC there doing their nightly

sports stuff and editing and stuff like that. So there's a chance that the experience I already had in sports TV had helped somewhat over people who were just applying with no experience. But I think it was just a uniqueness of my application in that I was female and interested. And I was interested in this position because it was going to be almost 162 baseball games. Just

for those unaware and Harry Carrey is an iconic figure baseball broadcaster for decades and decades. Keep passing away just before 2000. But wasn't absolute icon of the game. So it's a pretty big deal to say the last that you're involved him at such a young age as well. Now your roles with WGN, including graphics producer, you are then an assistant director and then became producer. What

do you think was the secret to developing the game? In relationships with the on-air talent and even guys behind the scenes and in the production trucks. I think that's really crucial to any role in sports TV. They are the voice and the face of what's going out there. So we used to joke with Wayne Larri Be. Any time we would mess something up in the truck,

say going to break or whatever. I would get in his ear and go, oh Wayne, you look pretty bad on that. Sorry that was our fault. No one knows me they don't know me. They know Wayne. So it sounded like Wayne's the state. So that's why the relationship and the trust that you have to develop between yourself and the talent is so important because they are

trusting you to make sure they don't look stupid. They can only do so much on their own. Obviously they can tell what they say, but if you're going to put up images that they have to react to, there has to be a trust level there. So you work a long time to get to know them and what they're comfortable with and how they like to do

things so that the trust develops and then you're there. They can work through anything together. Did they always have any piecing that you be communicating with them throughout the game? How does a technology differ between how it was back then in the early 90s to what you're dealing with now when the technology seems to be so far advanced these days? Is there a massive difference? It's

funny. In dealing with the talent, I'd say almost nothing has changed. You're wearing a headset in the truck. You're connected to them on the court. They have a way to speak just to you, which is called the top back. So they hit a button and it just comes into the truck and only the people there can hear it. That's how we talk back and forth. Hey,

do you want to do this here? Hey, I have a package on Michael Jordan here. Okay, great. Next, dead ball. That's what we're doing. Even during the pandemic where people have stayed home to do broadcast. They're still being spoken to through your piece, a headset, and able to talk to the producer wherever they are separate from everything else. Were there type of machines back at this

stage or had the digital age began to emerge? How did that progress in the 90s? Yeah, I'm going to date myself super badly right now. When I started, we were still using two inch tape. Okay. Yeah, so I'm so old. Oh my God. We moved to one inch tape, which were these giant reels where you spooled tape off of them and had to wind them onto

a machine. And then fast forward to the point that you wanted and you had to know where it was and how far into the tape it was. And they were heavy. They were so heavy. So I had to have help carrying around stuff that we needed to travel with because I was so tiny. I'm like, I can't carry ton of these. It's insane. And now I'm

carrying it all on like a tiny little stick. That technology is through the roof. And then we went to beta tapes, which were smaller and a little bit lighter. But still bulky to carry. And you had to decide what can we bring? What can we not bring? How much can we condense on the one tape that we need to bring with us? And if the bag

got lost, which everyone's so wild, you had none of your elements with you. So we would have massed panics sessions as anyone seen the tape bag. And now it's if anything goes wrong, someone just drop boxes. You a file of everything in the end. It takes three seconds to fix it. So that technology has changed an incredible amount. Now in terms of your role with the

graphics producer, I guess it's literally what it sounds like. You're responsible for ensuring that all the appropriate graphics appear on the screen at the right time. How much in advance would those graphics be prepared? I think it depends to if you're doing every day or every broadcast. Every game. Then you have a running list of things and you're developing them as the games go on. If

you're doing a football game once a week, you spend all week preparing those all week. So you start out on Sunday, and you've got your main thoughts. And then you refine as the week goes on. You're working on all of those, depending on what changes with the team that week as well. And what trends you see. And then you work with the analysts who again, they're

the voice of it. So they have to be comfortable with the numbers you've chosen. If they decide explosive plays for a quarterback is 10 plus yards or 15 plus yards, that's a big difference. So you have to work very closely with the analysts on what they think is important. And then honing those down so that they're readable for the viewer and digestible for the viewer. I'm

huge on a three or less rule. You can't put more than three things on a graphic. People can't digest it in the amount of time that it's on the screen. A lot that goes into doing graphics. And then game day is all a live aspect of it. That real time figuring out what's important as the game goes on. I guess that's just something that you develop

over time in terms of getting better at. You must get the adrenaline flow throughout broadcasts. Yes. And once you learn it, it's not a problem. I'd say probably the most stressful things are when someone's edging towards some sort of record. And now you've got to go figure out, is it the record? Where do I find that? Who had it last? And I better be ready. The

second they hit that basket that touchdown that passed. Whatever it is. That is expected to go in the second the record is broken. So if you want to wear that, you need to have all of that on your board, your big board. It will have all that information so that you can see if you're approaching something like that or so that you're prepared for that one

second when you need it. So in terms of the Chicago bulls-en, what are a few of your memories of being in amongst the team? You're doing WGN in 1991 officially. That was the first championship season in Chicago. Well, I will try to clean it up because my first meeting with my mother Michael Jordan, not quite broadcast appropriate. I'll clean it up for you. I try to

tell a story with some less salty language. Went to my first practice on the road. Phil Jackson was very nice and let the broadcasters into practice to see so he could prepare for the night. I was sitting on the sideline of the court, walked in, sat down. Everybody was getting ready to start shoot around. I was with two male co-workers. Michael looked around, walked straight over

to us, walked right up to me. And said, excuse me, miss. Can you go get me some coffee? Oh, yeah. The two men next to me who know me very well went, oh boy. Oh, God. I said, excuse me, sir. And something not so nice came out of my mouth. And he told his head to the side. If it was a movie, it would have been

breathless silence from everybody. He puts his hand out and he goes, Michael Jordan. And I said, Mandy Cohen, I'm the producer here and I do not get coffee. And he said, fair enough. And then I said, that being said, I would like some. So I will go find us some coffee. Your hand at that well. So I went and I got some coffee and that became

our thing. So every morning that I went to a shoot around, I would have his latte on the bus with me. One for me, one for him. It was just our thing for the years that I was there. That's fantastic. I love that. Thank you for sharing those stories. That's what makes these conversations great. There's here and these things that you just wouldn't expect. So how

did you find interacting with Phil Jackson who had just recently taken over as head coach from Doug Collins to year prior? How had your relationship off court with Phil? And how did that develop as the season went on? Leading to, of course, the first championship in Chicago for the balls. I can't say enough about Phil Jackson. I love that man. You get into arguments best coach

ever. This isn't the other. And I just tell people, I'm not going to even have this discussion with you. He is amazing. I feel so privileged to have been around him at a young age, a wonderful human and very welcoming. But also he didn't coddle. He treated me with respect. Even in my 20s, I was young. I was the only female there. He was slightly protective

of me. Players would put some videos on on the plane. And he would go, yeah, let's not watch that this week. Man, he's here. And I'm like, no, it's fine. I don't care. He's like no, I care. Oh, it's not. He was a little bit protective knowing that I was the only female around and young. I learned so much being around him. I tell people all

the time, I didn't even realize it till much later. But I think a lot of my leadership style comes from what I observed him doing. Yeah, I'm grateful in ways I didn't even realize until I was older, what I learned from watching him deal with all those personalities and how amazingly he got them all to play together. I've gotten reviews of my performance at work and

everyone always says, you're very good at realizing what everyone needs to make them work as a team. And what does that sound like? Plus Phil Jackson. That's Phil Jackson. He took everybody and everyone knew their role and everyone thrived in their role and everyone was happy in their role. I didn't realize it until later, but I really saw that and took it with me as a

learning experience and how lucky am I that I got such a wonderful person to learn from at such a young age. Yeah, that's a fascinating. So I did, he, also hand out books to you guys as well. He gave the players something to read. Yeah, the books were so fun because we used to, on WGM, we used to do a feature about it every year. We

would go around and ask everybody what book they got. And then we would ask them about whether they read it, whether they liked it. And it was the same every year. Steve Kerr was like, oh, plow through it in a week. It was fantastic. It was an autobiography of some military general. I don't know, right? Some really great book. And then you've got Ron Harper, got

Love Em, who's like, I started it at this rate. I'll be done by the end of the finals. It was just a really fun thing that he did. And I think everybody enjoyed it in their own way. I took some book recommendations from him, but we were never part of the actual gift exchange. I assume then you would have read Phil's books, sacred hoops, 11 rings.

He's got another few that I can't think of. I thought it's not my head, but reading those years after being around Phil and the team, they probably would have even had a more impact and some of the gaps I've ever used as well. Yeah, he's such an interesting human, right? His basketball mind is obviously incredible. And his ability to deal with people is incredible. But he's

had a number of experiences that just make him a very unique person. I got to know some of his family when I was there as well. Just all great people. And his unique style was just so effective and reading about it as well. It's funny to read it. I know. I can see that. How was it to work behind the scenes on WGN as the balls

were progressing throughout that first championship season in 1991? The expectations were pretty high in the city to have made it to the Eastern Conference Finals to finally get over the Detroit Pistons, the bad boys of that era. What was that like being right in the thick of that as the balls progressed to the playoffs in 91 and then ultimately won until in the finals against Magic

Johnson? I think every year was so different, right? That first one was all about the palpable relief at getting past Detroit. Finally, it was a combination of, oh, and yeah, we hate them so much, right? I don't know, you're carefully with the finals. We got past them, right? So the finals were just icing on the cake almost, which is weird because you think it would be

amazing. And of course beating Magic Johnson is a huge feat, right? It was somewhat tiny bit of the beginning of the changing of the gar in there and the shifting from magic to M.J. So that first year was really different. And then, the expectations just leveled up each year. And then it was, oh, we don't care who we're playing in those early rounds. We know we're

going to get past them. It got to be more and more tense about who we were going to reach in the finals. So that first one was just so different in that regard. It was like that first time, you're like, okay, yes, we're good. What was the favorite part of game day for you when it came to Bulls Games? I always used to call it tongue

out. But yeah, because the day is fine, you're setting up. I always used to say hi to guys when they walk in and everyone on the team was wonderful. Phil never had anybody there that wasn't a good person. It was such a lovely atmosphere at all times. Although I know the last dance didn't really bring that across. I think it was a very nice environment for

the most part. But the best part of game days was whenever in the game, the first few minutes or the last few minutes or somewhere in between, the tongue would come out. So we playing basketball, whatever game's just going. And all of a sudden you're like, oh, there it is. Game over. So the first bucket where his tongue came out as he was going to the

who. You're like, he just kicked it in the second game. Right. Like we're done. I hope it's not 20 points in the next three minutes and the game is over. That's a bad broadcast. But here comes. That was always my favorite moment whenever he decided that enough was enough. And he was just going to take over. I love hearing that. That's great. How did you react

when Jordan retired? Obviously he suffered the tragedy of his father's murder. It was kind of like, I'm not sure if he was going to be able to do that. He's not letting it change into baseball, perhaps October, not in 93. What did you make of that retirement and how shocking was it at the time? Well, I don't know that I've ever been more shocked in sports

than that. It came out of nowhere. To me, even being on the inside a little bit, it came out of nowhere. We couldn't wrap our head around it. Normally in TV, you get an idea. Someone's ready to retire or they're heading that way. So you start editing the compilation of their career and you start making sure you have that in the hopper so that when it

does come, we just added his press conference about retirement to the end of it. We're good. And we just were like, well, what? Oh my God, what just happened? And then all those ridiculous rumors started about why I don't really think many people on the inside believe any of that. It was heartbreaking. What happened and him going into baseball. We all said, well, he's so competitive.

He's going to be good at whatever he does. But looking back on it, it was shocking. We were in Australia because that was at the height of my fandom of the balls and Jordan, particularly and only four years into me having followed the game. It was crushing to hear that here for tired. It made massive news over here in Australia as a worldwide. But I was

almost even consoled at the time of say 18 year old. We knew it was never going to be the same. Wow. We just had this incredible run. What? Jarring the saddest. You shared a great photo online from your WGN days where you were all on the set behind Michael Jordan, Scotty Pippen and MJ seem to be putting on their microphones, perhaps and Wayne Larovie and Coach

Phil Jackson are there looking on how was it to deal with these guys who are at the height of their respective fame. We're talking about obviously since Jordan came back, it might have been circa 1996 to 72 in season. That photo has a fun backstory. Those guys were all incredible. The media requests were through the roof the entire time. I've never seen any manager as well

as Michael did. He always knew who was broadcasting. He always knew what was going on. I'll back up and give you a story to set up that photo. Please. We would be in the hallway of the stadium, whether it was Chicago Stadium or the United Center. And you would see a mad Rashad from NBC standing there and you'd see Craig Sager and you'd see me and

you'd see somebody from Sports Channel. And he's walking down the hall. And I'm thinking, I'm supposed to get him tonight. I'm not going to compete with a modern shot. So in my head I'm already reassembling, okay, who else can I interview? What else can we do to fill in the gap? He goes, hey, hey, Amon. Yeah, no, you're Saturday. I'll see you Saturday. Yeah, Sager, you're

Thursday. I'll see you Thursday. Sports Center, you guys are tomorrow. Today's Mandy. That's right. And you were like, oh, wow, he just gets it. He just gets it. Amon didn't need him that night. He knew how to work it and he knew that I wasn't going to bug him again for another month. So that photo, trying to get the three of them together with Wayne was

like pulling teeth. Because finding a time that all of them were willing to stay. It was a longer form show we wanted to do because you can't get those guys together and do three minutes. That's no good. So we wanted them there. Probably going to take an hour, right? So that's asking a lot. I worked with the three of them so long to get them to

say yes and to find a day that worked. And it was so bad. The fill was fine. Whatever the two of them decide, I'll be great. So then Scottie fell second, right? He's like, yeah, fine. Just get MJ to agree. Okay. All right. I'm on it. Now we used to go to Toronto. So I slipped off to a cigar store that Michael loved. And I said

to the guy, hey, here's who I am. I need your best, whatever you have, the best thing he loves, whatever it is, give me a case of. And the guy's like, okay, sure. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I need him. I got to have him. He's okay. So he gives me all these cigars. I pay for them. I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to put

this on my expense report, but it'll be in there somewhere. I get back on the plane. I go back to his little compartment area. He's back there with Scottie. He's like, what? What do you want? I have something for you. He's like, oh, what is that? I go, uh, not until you agree to do this interview. So he's like, fine. You warned me down, right? So

it was such an accomplishment. I felt like to get all of them in that room to do that show with Wayne. That was me hugging him as a thank you. For asking him for an hour of his time. That's fantastic. Thank you very much for sharing that. Now you've been involved in the TV sports industry for more than 30 years. And in the lead up to

our chat today, you told me that you never met an athlete who was as intense as Michael Jordan. We'll discuss the last dance in just a moment. But what interactions or observations from your time around Jordan in particular demonstrate the intensity that he has. And is obviously well known for. And I was showing two at the last dance to I always tell people Steve Kerr was

the master three point basket. And at the end of every shoot around. This is sort of any basketball team college. I imagine you know high schools do it. You do that half court shot, right? And everybody takes a half court shot to see who can make it. So they were no exception. But a lot of times we'd have to stay until Michael hit more than Steve.

Just weren't going anywhere. We'd hold up the whole bus until he hit more. That was just his personality. He was not going to lose at anything. You could see it in just every little detail. There was one time we got on the plane after a game and we're flying home. It's on the plane. He comes running up to me right in my face. And he goes,

I did not travel in the second quarter with eight minutes ago. And I'm like, okay, first of all, I have nothing to do with that. So why scream in it me. I did not ref the game. I said, but you. You didn't get it. You can't call for a foul in the fourth quarter when he's like, okay, fine. Yeah. Why are we having a name? My

God. The bulls beat them by 30. He's so upset that he got called for traveling in the second quarter when I've been nothing. So that's his personality. I've never seen another athlete get that upset over something that small. They didn't matter at all. He used that obviously to his ultimate advantage throughout his career by even creating slots again to play as it never really happened. But

yeah, it's fast. I'm not into it. For obvious reasons, 2020 delivered very few bright moments. But the one shining light for me was the 10 part docuseries, the last dance. And I'm sure for countless others worldwide. I'll ask about your link to the series in a moment. But first of all, what did you make of those 10 episodes, kind of clinging the 9 and 98 season,

but as a backdrop, all that happened prior to that? I thought it was amazing. The uncovered footage that I'd never seen, which I didn't think is possible. Yeah, true. I don't know where they got some of that stuff. It was insane. I actually emailed one of the producers and said, I don't even know how I could be more impressed with the amount of footage that you

found. So I think that was really cool. The behind the scenes stuff. I remember them being there and shooting all of that. And then never seen the light of day and thinking what a sad tragedy that was because there was a lot of behind the scene stuff that would be pretty cool. So I'm glad that Michael agreed to let somebody see that stuff and do the

documentary. I think they showed the complex nature of him pretty well. It was a good representation of everything that happened during those years. I don't think they skipped any big parts. I don't think they missed anything. They really handled it well. I think they gave voice to so many people who weren't around, which I thought was really impressive too. Jerry Kraus, David Stern, they're a big

part of the story. You can't tell it without Jerry Kraus. He was there all the time for everything. So in order to find all those old interviews, he had to work his thoughts into it was big. Did you have much to do with Jerry Kraus? He was painted as a bit of a villain for the majority of the series. And towards the end, some of the

players did give him his due. He ultimately built the roster which became the championship team and dynasty as well. Yeah, he's such a complex character too, right? If you tried to write this movie, you'd want them all to be this complex. So Jerry just became the common enemy. If you will, you travel with the team. You spend so much time together, that's your family. So if

somebody is perceived as an outsider and threatens the family in any way, the family rallies around, right? And then makes that person the common enemy. So I think there's a little bit of that that happened. Might not have been as justified as it was. Now Jerry was very nice to me. I had a lot of interactions with him. He was around all the time. We had

him on WGN all the time and was always very nice, easy to talk to and helpful with me. I have zero complaints. I also believe he helped build the team that ultimately went on and the template for what the team was. So I think he is due some credit, whether you like Tim or not. I think it was a little bit of the cool kids versus

not. And that's never a good dynamic in life, but it happens. And he held his own. Michael's going to tease you. Michael's going to tease you. But I also will argue if Michael's not teasing you, that's a bigger problem. I thought about it that way. So that makes sense. Now in terms of the last dance, you were interviewed at length as part of the extensive research

phase for the program. Unfortunately, like former guests of the show, Jack McCallum, he didn't make the final cut either based on the photo that I saw of you in an online article. I think you're interviewed near Staples Center in LA by the looks of things. We were chatting with the director Jason here. And second part, how would you compare that interview experience? I'm what you provided

to them over that period of 90 minutes with the eventual omission from the city. So it wasn't Jason. It was one of the other producers who was wonderful. I know that they interviewed so many people. I think when you look back on it, if there's one thing I wish that they had done just a little bit differently, and not about me, but maybe more Wayne Larby,

more Dan Rohn, those guys were there every day, every day. So some of the people that they use, while they were there, they were not there every day. So if there's one small thing, I would say, I wish that they had changed a little bit, would have been just a little bit more of the people who were in practice and saw that stuff. Some of those

people were around, but they weren't in practices every day. So they didn't necessarily see everything that the local broadcasters did or were privy to. So I think they took all that information in. I know they interviewed a ton of people like me and took all that information and then we're able to use it. I'm sure to ask other questions and do all that kind of stuff

too. So it was fun to do. I was crazy to relive all of that and it certainly was crazy to relive it while the last dance was going on. I think I drove my husband crazy going, oh, I was there. Oh, I was in the bus. Oh, right there. They just took the camera a little bit. I was like, oh, I'm like, yeah, he's like, could

we just watch these? I don't need your running commentary. Thank you. It was really fun to be a part of it. And they were all wonderful. And I touched base with them a number of times over the process to make sure that they were getting what they needed from WGN and stuff too. That's good. So I got like Dan and why? WGN team were interviewed as

well. I don't know actually, because they not have interviewed Wayne Larry. They had to have, right? Well, you would have thought that'd be a given. And also I would have thought Tom Dool who's doing all the sports channel calls. Yes, exactly, exactly. Our conversation today is due specifically to the last dance because from time to time, I just Google the series and see what comes up.

And recently I did another search and your name appeared. And this conversation has come from it, which is fantastic. So thanks again for giving us your time today. Or scary, but that's fine. This led me to a terrific video where you shared a story about Jordan, they are in my TV role. So we're all leaving practice. The bus is parked across this parking lot area. And

there's an outdoor court. And there's just two kids playing pick up ball together. And we're all walking toward the bus and Jordan and Pippin's look at each other. And they walk over and they just say to these two kids, like, Hey, you want to go. And it's two kids were like, Oh, my God, are we really seeing this? I don't know what they played horse or

whatever they played with them for a few minutes. We all got on the bus. And Phil being Phil, he said, we will wait for them until they're done. So I sat on the bus and watched out the window. No cell phones, no video cameras with us. No nothing. So in this day and age, that would have been shot and posted to Twitter. And the kids would

have put it on Instagram, whatever. But there was nothing. There was nothing. Nobody had a phone. So there was no record of it, except the 20 of us on the bus watching. I think I said this in my video, but I feel really bad for those kids because there's zero chance anybody's ever believed them. That that happened. Just what a moment. I can't imagine what those

kids felt. You're just out playing pick up ball. And here come two icons in the game. And they messed with you for a little bit. And you get to save for the rest of your life. You play with Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippin. So it was just one of those moments that because there's no record of it, it was so special. It's just fantastic to hear

and went on saw that video the first time. It just guide me goosebumps and hearing you say it again now is very similar. This might be an impossible. But you are there in Chicago for all the Bulls championships in the 90s. Do you have a five-per-second season? Yeah. cliche, but that's 72 and 10 season was just amazing. To be part of that and the funny part

of that was for me personally, in April, I would go back and forth between the Cubs and the Bulls. When the Cubs needed me, I try to do both in a day, which is so crazy. I do Cubs Day game. And then brush to the United Center to do the basketball game. Or, you know, I'm going to do the basketball game. The team would go on

the road and sports center had the game. So I'd stay back and do baseball. So I went back and forth. The Cubs that year went like, Oh, and 14 to start the year. So I'm getting on the Cubs plane one day. And they're, Oh, look who's back. Oh, I guess you left that other team for a little while. And I'm like, Wow, okay. One team doesn't

lose. One team doesn't win. Where would you rather be? And they're like, Oh, it's so mean. I'm like, when a game they've lost less games than you have. It's just was such a crazy thing to be part of. We were in Denver for one game. And it was the ultimate tongue out moment. We're going through this stretch of wins because to go 72 and 10, you

have to win. You have to have a lot of long win districts. We're in the middle of one and Denver is just we're not playing well. I don't know if the altitude is a problem, whatever. They're out there and we're starting to get a little nervous in the truck. Could this be a loss, right? And then I'm like, Oh, no, there it is. There's a tongue.

We're good. And at 25 straight point run. And the crew that we were working with in Denver was like, What are you talking about? I'm like, Oh, the tongue is out. So it's kind of over. And they're like, You're down 25. And I'm like, Yeah, it's good. You'll see. He just took over. They made this incredible run. And the crew was like, Wow, that was something.

Yeah. I don't know the bulls went on to win handily at that point or whatever. I can't remember. But that was the special moment. So you had that season. It was just such a such a crazy thing that you could go the whole year and was 10 days. When you're setting up segments where you might be interviewing some of the lesser known players who don't get

all the air time guys like Randy Brown or Steve Kerr, Judd Booster, whoever it might have been was there a particular player that you gravitated to or found was a really interesting person off the court Australia's Luke, lonely. It was obviously part of those balls teams in the second three beat. Well, they were all so wonderful. I loved Luke. He was always wonderful to be around

and just ridiculously tall. So he was once in a pool at the hotel. And I jumped in thinking it was the shallow end. It wasn't. My I forgot how tall you are. So he was great to have around Kerr, whennington, busheler, all those guys were so great and just really good human beings. Bill whennington, when the team went to Paris for the McDonald's Championship, Dan Ronan,

I went over there to cover it. We managed to finagle that trip with some crazy story about how we had to be there. Bill was so great. He did a day in Paris with us. And we took him to the Louvre. And we went shopping. We had him sipping coffee at a cafe. He would just do anything. So much fun. Personally, those guys treated me like

a little sister. And so so long ago, I went on a date. I took me to a black hawk's game. Okay, great. I was sitting in the stadium and we're facing each other, chipped chatting while the game is going on. He keeps looking behind me. He's looking behind me. He's looking behind me. It's something wrong. And he goes, I think, Judd, busheler, and Bill whennington want

your attention. And I go, what? So I turn around. And they're like, hi, I'm waving and tearing on. And so they get up. And I'm like, oh, god, oh, god. Do they come over and like any good big brother? Are these really embarrassed me? I'm like, okay, that guy's never calling me again. And sure enough, that was the end of that. So I'm going to go

to the center. But to go on and do what he has done and coach the Go on. So that worries and have that success there is quite an incredible achievement. Above and beyond what he did on the court through the nonnies. Yeah, I have zero surprise that he is just an amazing human. He was such a good basketball mind. I'm not putting words in his mouth,

but I bet he might say the same thing that I said about learning from Bill on how to operate. And he just would have taken that all in and assimilated it and then put it back out there. And I think that success is no surprise to me. He's just a wonderful human combined with an incredible basketball mind. Well said. And you mentioned Bill when he still

works for the Bulls radio to this day. He's also guest on the show here. Twice, which has been very generous of him. And he was a very first person I had on the podcast back in late 2012. So. Yeah, I've got a very soft spot for Bill whennington. He's a good guy. I mentioned in the intro that you're an eight time Emmy award winning live sports.

Producer. I must ask you about those wonderful awards. You worked for NBC at the 2004 Olympic scene Athens Grace. And then you spent more than 15 years at ASPN as a producer. I'm certain you've been involved in some incredible moments throughout that span. What are a few things that come to mind? And obviously led to some of those great achievements in terms of the Emmy awards

and whatnot. I probably should say that I'm too time Emmy winner because six of those eight have something to do with Michael Jordan. So. Really sure I can count them as my achievements. I think I'd bundle them in. Yeah. Super lucky to have all those last second shots and those wonderful games. He was so easy to package into something that would win an Emmy. I guess

I would say those were not difficult Emmys. So I laugh that a lot of those are connected with him and the championship run. The other two one was from the NBC coverage in Athens. If you're in television, the Olympics are a bucket list item. So I was super excited to be able to go over there and to do it in Athens was incredible. The birthplace of

everything. It was it was a very wonderful, exhausting, fabulous experience. And I wouldn't trade that for anything. And then the other one was at ESPN for a college football, the national championship. We do a series of what we call mega casts, which is you have the main game. And then you have eight offshoots of different ways to present the game. So all of us. We're involved

in that. Each of us had a different broadcast to cover for the national championship that was off the beaten path. And it was a technological marvel. The way they did it. It's just incredible. That one and Emmy for all of us that had been involved in the mega cast. Each individual broadcast. So that was super fun and something I'm really proud of as well. Right. What

was your role in that mega cast? What were you doing? So I did what we called it field access. And we had two. Hosts. When on each sideline we had the analyst sign we rotated a different analyst every quarter. And they just called the entire game from the sidelines. They could walk around and talk to anybody that they could get their hands on. They could analyze

from the end zone. They could wander around. And they went back and forth across the field. Speaking to each other. The crosstalk was very interesting as well. And the broadcast had a multi boxes everywhere with the talent and the game and everything that we could possibly put up there. CNBC like it was really fun. Yes, he's great about saying here's what we'd like. Now you go

do being able to be creative with how we did that and brought a different perspective to the game and work tied into the traditional broadcast method. So if you were interested in some of the Hall of Fame coaches we had on as analysts. You got a full quarter of a different analyst from either side to be a different analyst coming on to discuss the game in

a different way. Sounds like a very unique setup there. You mentioned near the start of our conversation that you'd love to produce a Super Bowl. Ultimately would you love a possibility of being involved with a Super Bowl in the years to come? Football is definitely my favorite sport to tell advice. It's the hardest. It's the most work. It's the most intense. But it's the most rewarding.

I enjoy doing football. I'd hope to get back to that someday. It's funny. You say when you're that young. You're not even growing up in the business. Oh, I'm going to produce a Super Bowl. And then you see the headaches that come with that. And you're like, hmm, maybe I don't need this. Now if someone asks me to produce a Super Bowl more than happy to

produce a Super Bowl. It would be an amazing accomplishment. I think the problem with that level is there's only been a couple of people who have done it. I would have to have somebody truly believed in me and in my knowledge of football and my ability to be able to do that. Do I think I could? Absolutely. It is literally the Super Bowl. It's against which

all other things are compared. I think the narrow scope of the people that have done it and probably will do it in the near future. I may be getting too old to get there. I hope not. Certainly hope that it is. So many that happens in the future for you. Thanks. You are only six years old when you said that you wanted to do the Super

Bowl. Yeah. That would be pretty cool. If it does come to fruition at some stage. Yes, it would be. I think we actually have video of me talking about it. That is. Oh, it's a good. Great. Well, Mandy's been a real pleasure to have you on the show today. I thank you so much for giving time to some guy in Australia. Talk about your memories. And

I wish you ever success in the future. Thank you so much. It was so much fun to spend some time with you. Thanks for listening. I welcome your interaction with the show. You can suggest topics or guests. You want to hear conversations with send me an email audio clips are welcome in all anus at gmail.com. Time now to share another great review from a fan of

the show. Thanks to Buey Hoang via Apple podcasts Australia. And it's titled without doubt the best NBA history podcast. I promise you I did not pay for him to say that. It's rated five stars and it reads get a real buzz every time one of Adam's episodes drop. The latest featuring the great Bob Ryan was one of the best. Love it. Thank you, Adam. Well, thank

you, John. I believe John is your real name. Very confident. It's not Buey Hoang. If I'm even pronouncing that correctly. I look back in the podcast history and in 2016, John, you added a review. Thanks very much for adding another review. Some five years. Hence much appreciated. Well, why the show is closing in on 180 ratings on Apple podcasts with an average of four and a

half stars with 92 reviews across all providers. Thanks for your continued support. If you add a review, I'm sure you'll be able to see it. For review, I'd love to read it out on a future episode. Your ratings and reviews are one of the best ways to support the podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please do tell your basketball, loving friends about it. Word of mouth

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