Scott Kveton Founder of Jump.co

Hi, my name is San Tito. This is CryptoKid Podcast. I'm going to be talking to you guys about blockchain technology and cryptocurrency. Welcome to CryptoKid Podcast. Did I have a special guest, Scott? And he is a co-founder of Jump.co. And Scott, why don't you tell us a little bit about how you guys started in the industry and a little bit about the company that you're involved

with? Sure, sure. So let's see here. I think like a lot of people, my journey into Web 3 is circuitous at best. So I've been in tech for 20 plus years, kept my teeth at Amazon, turn of the century. Got really active at a bunch of open source and open identity work, specifically co-founded the Open ID and OAuth Foundations way back in the day. And then

moved over to the business side of the house. And then co-founded and scaled and sold a bunch of different companies. Did a mobile company back in 2009. Called Urban Airship, raised 50 million adventurers, scaled that like crazy. My co-founder and I left that, started a point of sale system for the cannabis industry that we sold in 2017. And had a ill-fated foray into the vacation rental

platform space that we launched a vacation rental platform site in March of 2020 when basically the whole world wasn't going anywhere. So that kind of flopped. Unfortunately. And then from there, you know, just continue to work with a lot of folks that I've worked with over the years. And we had spun up essentially a consultancy to get into Web 3. The idea was to provide. Sort

of co-founding technical expertise to Web 3 companies. And so we did that for a while last year in 2021 and then really hit on the product side of what we wanted to focus on. We knew we wanted to be a product company, but we thought what a great way to sort of learn some things about the industry. And so that's when we came up with sort

of the concept of jump. It's really a platform for physically backed NFTs. So we have a whole turnkey solution that not only enables a white liable NFT platform, but also has full payment support across. You name it, we can support it as well as a complete custodial solution because a lot of it, the users come into the space, just don't understand or know what it means

to have a wallet and it's almost could be kind of dangerous when it comes to assets that actually have physical value. So we kind of liken it to being this turnkey solution that helps folks who have specific assets that they would like to bring to the blockchain. Some of the advantages of that. We sort of solve that for them. And so our initial focus has been

on things like trading cards, sports memorabilia, fine arts, vintage cars, starting to look at things like watches, handbags, and a variety of other things that are sort of brand driven that we think are really, really interesting. And so we, you know, really, really dug in around February of this year and signed our first couple customers. We'll be starting to launch those in early 2023. And, you

know, we're off the races just in time for what I think, you know, some folks would call the end of crypto, which I think is laughable. But yeah. Okay. That's very exciting. And you mentioned like you're going to, you're using NFTs to back like can goes like watches and other materials. How is that concept applying? Because usually when people think of NFTs, for me example, I

think of like the apes or our digital art. And how, how is it going to, how are we going to turn like actual art into an NFT like by actual art? I mean like a real painting. Sure. So, so the, I think the point of using NFTs for this is to be able to have a digital representation or a digital place that you can point to

who's. Specifically owns that more importantly to be able to track provenance of time. I think there's also some utility that'll come along with that as well. And we think that there's some really interesting opportunities for, you know, let's say fine art that exists today. But also for, you know, brands like watches, handbags like, you know, Louis Vuitton and all these other folks that want to be

able to create. You know, new items that are interesting and compelling, they want to be able to verify those items. And then over the course of time. They want to be able to, you know, see when those get sold, who buys them, who sells them, potentially have a royalty. All those components of NFTs, I think are really, really interesting. And while it won't have the NFT

might not have some really fantastic digital representation, the fact that it's on the public ledger, the fact that it's. You can trace the provenance. I think those are the really core components that are really, really interesting to, to what we're building for sure. Okay. Now does that apply to digital collectibles? And securing royalties? So yeah, that's interesting. We can do it for digital collectibles. We just

have avoided that mainly because there's so many great players who are already doing it. The royalty component is a tricky one in the sense that. The way that the, you know, ERC 115 and 721 are written is such that, you know, thou shalt pay the. The royalty, you know, if the market. The market place wants to. And so it's not actually enforceable in the contract itself.

And the blockchain has no way of enforcing it. So I think that's actually a detriment to the space right now. Part of what we're doing is we're actually going to enforce the royalties. And I think some folks may not actually like that. We'll do it through our contract. And because of that, I think people will see what we're doing is potentially, you know, centralized in that

sense. I would much prefer. And there are a bunch of efforts. And there are a lot of efforts around sort of ERCs that would. Solve for this. In other words, new ways of doing this that. You know, I hear to a standard that's that's been, you know, vetted by the community. But, but those haven't sort of taken off yet. So we're sort of taking matters into

our own hands. The folks who, you know, want to put these things on the blockchain who want to leverage the benefits of NFTs. You know, they want the predictability of that. Yeah. So anyway, so that's that's kind of, you know, the royalty thing to me is, it's really unfortunate. I think that people aren't respecting the royalties. But I also get it when there's liquidity sort of

drains out of a market. People try to find ways that they can sort of, you know, chip away at any kind of, you know, margins and ways to draw on users. And so that's where like, you know, some of these marketplaces that have come along that basically don't respect the royalties. You know, I think that's a bummer. So. All right. All right. Now you brought up

centralization. Now DeFi is, is D central finance. So how is that going to compete with the outdated regulatory frameworks? I guess, how do you mean? Like, what I mean is, so people, people don't really want like with the, okay, with, for example, with FT. FTX, okay. So that was supposed to be decentralized. It would not. And then this, and then all this news came out. And

billions of dollars were lost. And I'm guessing that it's, in my opinion, it was outdated regulatory system. And the SEC should have had a tire hold. So like, what is unique? Like, what is going to get people to trust DeFi? Now that FTX has happened. Does that make sense? Yeah, that's a good, that's a good question. And so let's, let's be really clear here. FTX was

a centralized exchange. And if you used it and put your money in it, you were trusting in that exchange. This sort of, you know, flies in the face of a lot of the sort of tenants of DeFi. You should custodial, you know, custody your own assets, those kinds of things. FTX was. A glorified Ponzi scheme run by some 30, some things that had absolutely no clue

of doing what they were doing. Now, I think that they were smart people. And anytime you're in a bull market, smart people can make a lot of money. It's just when the market dips and they continue to make poor decisions or think that, you know, things will recover. That's when bad things happen. And in the case of FTX, at least so far, they're uncovering that they

used deposits users deposits to actually. Fun the business, which is a huge no-no for a variety of different reasons. And then speaking to the sort of the SEC and what was their hand in this. That's a tricky beast. The SEC is completely outgunned when it comes to to sort of DeFi just in terms of how they can manage this. You know, SBAF, Sandbank, and Fried was

actually very tight with the SEC. He had been working very closely on a lot of legislation. And he didn't know what to do. He also funded a lot both on the Democrat and the Republican side of things from a donation standpoint. Because ultimately what he was trying to do was put regulation in place that would cement FTX is sort of the most trusted of the exchanges,

which is not the way I think regulation should be done. So it's a tricky beast. And then, you know, adding compounded to that is the fact that FTX is a much like finance. It's counterpart finance. You know, it's an international entity. With, you know, 130 plus sub organizations that are connected in this web of crazy corporate governance or, you know, in this case, the lack thereof.

And so unwinding that I think is really, really tricky. And more importantly, does the SEC even have oversight over that? While there were US citizens who had deposits within FTX, FTX.com, there were disclaimers lots and lots of disclaimers that said you shouldn't have your deposits here. If you're from the US or a variety of other places that they weren't allowed to do business in... And you

know, in fact that the Bameon government just came out and said that they don't actually think that the FTX, and its subsidiaries should fall under chapter 11 US rules. And so it's rather interesting to see how this whole thing is going to play out. And if you think about, you know, Mount Docks happened in 2014. It is now 2022. And they still have an unravel bad

whole beast. And this one is several orders of magnitude larger. And you know, honestly the fraud associated with it is is is I think significantly greater. But let's take a step back here and ask ourselves fundamentally this is a black guy for crypto. It just is because you know, especially going into the Thanksgiving. Weekend, everybody's, you know, aunt and uncle who you haven't seen in a

year is going to say, how's that crypto thing working out for you? I heard it's a big scam. It's fraud. And that's unfortunate. I've even seen it in talking with customers. Everybody's sort of taking a wait and see right now. But fundamentally nothing's changed, right? Walks are still being verified. People are still minting selling and trading NFTs. You know, the business of crypto continues to go

on. It just has a significant sort of image problem as it were. And that's unfortunate. And that will set things back. But again, you know, we have to root out not only the bad actors, but the bad companies that are not based on fundamentals. And so unfortunately, I don't think we've seen the worst of it yet. I think there's going to be a lot more that

gets unraveled both from FTX. I'm still not convinced that, you know, Tara can hold its peg. I'm not convinced that by an aunt isn't a house of cards that just, you know, kick down F. FTX in order to avoid them getting, you know, taken out, but you know, only time will tell. In the meantime, everything we're doing is, is we, we work everything in USD. You

all will transact with crypto. We convert everything to USD, not USD seed, actually USD. And we leverage the inherent nature of NFTs to live on the blockchain, to provide that provenance to, you know, even do some form of what we call community ownership and fractionalization, although we can't call it that. And so to me, we're leveraging the inherent interesting compelling parts of crypto versus just turning

it into a giant speculative game. And that's where I think that the interesting works going to happen. And us among a bunch of people, we're going to be able to do something that we can't do. We're going to be able to do some of these things, to do some of these other companies that are doing what might not be as flashy because they're not seeing, quote

unquote, huge returns. We're in the business of creating value. Where it. It couldn't exist before because of this technology. So super long-winded response to your question. Sorry. Oh, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. And that clarifies a bunch of things. And you also brought up Binance. So I was a cinema podcast on concrete, concrete podcast. I highly recommend it. And he was, there was this guy

talking about how Binance is a Chinese back company. So just going to my head, like, wait a minute. Cryptocurrency is banned in China. So how the flip or how are the how do we call them China is getting involved with cryptocurrency if it's banned in their own country? Like that makes no sense. Yeah, I, you know, I, and I think you can go down some pretty

crazy path. This is especially depending on the the sub right. I mean, I do it all the time. When you sort of look at the the subreddits and things like that. But, you know, I believe CZ is a Chinese national, although he doesn't live in China anymore. At least this is my understanding. And I'm probably wrong. But where FTX was a web of complicated overlapping corporate

structure and governance. Binance is is obviously stated even further. It doesn't actually live in any country. It doesn't actually have corporate headquarters. That one is a really tricky one to unspool. Now, if you if you play sort of the, you know, you play the conspiracy game. If I were China and I could create an exchange that could disrupt potentially the US dollar. And the stranglehold on

being the reserve currency on the planet. That's a super interesting potentially compelling thing to do. But is that happening. I don't know. I mean, it, you know, Occam's razor would say it's not because it's it's that's too complicated. You know, it's usually the simplest. The simplest reason is probably the reason and really I think that it's just it behooves Binance to be borderless and headquartered. For

a variety of different reasons. And then there's a reason that they are, you know, by far and away. The biggest exchange out there. I think, you know, I think I want to say there. I can't remember. I'd be making numbers up if I said how big they are. But they're definitely bigger than FTX was. So, do you think since the, you know, I think it's a

big deal. And so all this news has came out with, especially in the crypto winner. Like, is it going to weed out some people that are not really gun hoe about cryptocurrency and blockchain technology and we're just jumping on the train. Yeah, that's a, that's a really good question. It's one I'll be honest. I've been asking myself over the last couple of weeks. Since all this

stuff happened with FTX. I mean, I've taken a couple for raising to crypto. Back in 2017 before there was a big crash with ETH. And I'm sort of asking myself the same thing here because, you know, I'm old enough and having gone through this a couple different times. Not to like go all grandpa on you or anything. But, you know, I remember in, you know, 2000

literally the year 2000 when all these companies paid all this money to do Super Bowl ads. And within, you know, six to 12 months, they were all completely insolvent. And, you know, the exact same thing. This last Super Bowl was the crypto Super Bowl, right. And, but what I saw back in 2000 was, okay, you know, the concept of Webvan or delivery of groceries to people's

homes. It doesn't make sense today because not everybody has a computer, not everybody. You know, the inventory systems, the supply chain systems aren't there to support something like that. And thus the margins are going to be ridiculously low. So it's, you can't make an interesting business. But when those systems get built out over time, that gets really, really compelling. And I think the same thing is

kind of true for Web 3. You couldn't do a lot of the things that you'd want to do with Web 3 right now because we can't even get a wallet to work. We can't even stop fishing. We can't even do like some of the really simple things. But again, that at its core, the idea of a public ledger, the idea of NFTs for provenance, the idea

of smart contracts that are immutable on the blockchain. These are all really, really interesting compelling components. And the key thing is, you know, the cat is out of the bag. There's no going back. This technology is going to be integrated. And it's going to be ridiculously impactful. It's just, I think the fact that, you know, Web 3 and crypto at its core is about disrupting the

financial system. You're inevitably going to see some sort of, you know, scammy or less than ideal characters involved doing less than ideal things. And so those are the folks I think we're having to kind of shake out. I mean, let's be honest. All this happened. During Web 2, it's just instead of the currency being US dollars or Bitcoin, the currency was data. How many times did

Zuckerberg or Twitter tell us your data is safe? Don't worry. It's fine. We're not selling it. And then to come to find out, oh, we actually, it turns out we are selling it. Or oh, you actually can mine it. To me, that is, you know, folks will say, well, it's just your data. You know, all that stuff's out there. But to me, it's the same thing.

You've got the same kinds of folks. The same. Same things happening. And ultimately, with data, starting to have conversation around how it should be protected, how it should be owned, how it should be managed over time. And I think the same thing will be true with sort of Web 3, for sure. Absolutely. And I think people just want a transparent exchange that they could go to

and not have to worry about a Ponzi scheme happening or the government cracking down. And people just stealing money out of our people getting hacked is what I mean. And it was like, because banks get hacked. Yeah. And so, but they have more backing than right now cryptocurrency does. And I think as time goes on, like, we'll see more of a digital world. I mean, you

see what's going on with what projects with the metaverse and how ever since COVID happened, really brought people to remote work. And around that time, the metaverse was being talked about. And now it's being applied more because people want to stay home, they're concerned about their health or whatever. Yeah, I mean, the metaverse is a tricky one. And that's another term to me that has been

kind of. I'd say bastardized, but it makes a bad name of bastards, honestly. I think that I think the metaverse has become kind of this fever dream of Mark Zuckerberg. And he's trying to create something that doesn't need to exist yet. I think AR and some of the existing things like Roblox and Fortnite, those are kind of where I think the actual, I mean, yes, they're

games and yes kids play them, but there's a whole generation of people who are growing up on those things. And that tends to be what kind of morphs into something that would ultimately be the same as the metaverse. When I look at Facebook and I'm going to go on a little bit of a rant here, go for it. Facebook hasn't done anything innovative. And in years,

right? I mean, let's be honest, Zuckerberg had to write a check for $200 million to the Vincol Voss twins because he stole the idea from them. He bought Instagram. He bought WhatsApp, tried to buy TikTok. And now Facebook is this rudderless, bloated, and a company that doesn't know what it wants to be when it grows up. So when he sunk his teeth into creating the metaverse,

well, guess what? Nobody else is out trying to invest and create a metaverse like he is. And to me, that's the sure sign that you're barking up the wrong tree. Any time I start to build a company, and I see lots of competitors there. I know I'm onto something. If I don't see competitors there, I get very, very nervous because that means that either the time

for it hasn't come yet, or there isn't actually a business. So anyways, that's kind of my take on the metaverse stuff. I prefer to think that people are going to kind of live in either a mixed reality world with AR or be fully immersed in fun games and things like that. I don't see people dedicating themselves in a ready player one theme around immersing themselves and

disconnecting from reality. And I think that's what Zuckerberg would love to do. Anyways, that's just my two cents. All right. Yeah, and I'm glad you brought up about competitors because back in the Microsoft and Apple days, when Apple was going down under Steve Jobs straight up called Bill Gates. And just like, you need me. You need somebody to compete with. So it's actually one of the

smartest investments that the Microsoft did. Because one, it took a lot of the heat off from the antitrust heat that they were getting because they were pretty damn close to being considered a monopoly. And it was like 150 million bucks of an investment. And then at that time when Steve Jobs came back to Apple, you know, Apple had 110 different products. They were ridiculously bloated. They

were almost out of cash. And, you know, jobs came in and gutted the company. Got them focused down to four. Four different things. And then, you know, from there, went on a tear and introduced the iPod. Ultimately, the iPhone became the greatest consumer product in the history of history. But if it weren't for Microsoft's investments, you know, Apple probably would be a footnote in history. So,

yeah, I mean, it's that one is always really fascinating to me. And it's also interesting that people don't really look at people. It's like people don't think history is going to repeat itself. It always repeats itself. And. You know, I think we're going through one of those cycles again here with a web through, I don't know how many people tell me web three is done. We

don't have to hear about it anymore. It's like, no, this, this has happened. Just may not happen like you, like you think it would. So yeah. And it's, it's definitely here to stay with no doubt. I mean, this is something that. People are going to innovate with and try to and with everything that's going down the crypto winner at the end. And it's going to motivate

people to be to make web three better and make it more transparent. Yeah, I agree. I agree. So like with, I understand that you're involved with ID. So do you, how do you think blockchain will play a role in digital ID? Great, great question. So, you know, years ago, we, we tried to solve this. This with a technology called open ID and the idea behind open

IDs was that you could basically have your own representation of yourself. It came out of. A company called live journal, a guy named Brad Fitzpatrick came up with the idea of it, which was my writings or who I am. So I want to be able to authenticate as my blog somewhere, right? Super simple, you know, thing to think about. And so he, he baked this thing

called open ID. It started to get some adoption. We pulled together a bunch of. Smaller companies, which then we were able to convince, you know, Google, Facebook and Microsoft to get on board. They all had sort of competing initiatives that they ditched in favor of this. And ultimately, we were able to create something. And what it did was, say, this domain name is associated with this

person. And that's kind of cool. But at the time, you know, we're talking almost 15 years ago now. A lot of people will be like, okay, well, great. I have this open ID. What do I do with it? I don't blog. Like now what? Right? And if you think about web three, you are what your wallet is. And so if I can now map my identity

to my wallet. And then hopefully wrap some permissions around that. That's super interesting. So in addition to having my NFTs and my crypto and my wallet, I could potentially also have my data. I could have my profile information, my address, my, you know, my preferences that I would be willing to dole out to people if they ask permission for it. And for some, you know, I'm

going to be able to do that. By night period of time instead of making it permanent. And so I think we have a bunch of the building blocks. I'm just not sure how it's going to manifest itself. And more importantly, how is it going to manifest itself in such a way that users don't even care or know about the wallet underneath or their ID or any

that stuff. It's just they click a button and it works. And what happened with the case to open ID was when Google and Facebook adopted it. They made it really easy for you to use that little button that's login with your Facebook account or login with your Google. Google account. And guess what? Those became ubiquitous. People don't know that they're using the same technology underneath that.

And they shouldn't they don't need to know it. But, you know, Facebook and Google were able to leverage their dominance with so much profile data. And more importantly, to just make it easy for people to log in. That the use case just pulled those users directly through. And ultimately, that's why we can now sign in. But we don't have control because we're beholden to the keepers

of my Facebook account in the case of Facebook, Google. So, you know, all that kind of stuff. So, where's it all going to go? I'm not sure. But I think that we have a bunch of the pieces in place. I think this is a unique moment in time because we have a new technology in the form of sort of Web 3 and what's happening there. And

we're going through an economic downturn, which means there's been a lot of people starting up new companies. So it's just it's sort of the brew. It's the ingredients for the perfect storm. And how it how it comes out. I'm not sure. But ultimately, I think the winner will be whoever it is that just guts it out on the longest. I mean, it sounds really boring. But

it just. Yeah. And so, but I mean, you know, there's something to be said about that. I mean, there's there's companies that I've seen that got into open ID 15 years ago. And I got out of it, you know, 10 years ago, at least. Probably more than that now. And the people who stuck to it are now running multi billion dollar companies. And, you know, for

me, I just I lost interest because, you know, I'm an entrepreneur and I always want to go on to the next thing. But, you know, it became a very interesting compelling business. And so that's that's actually really exciting. And I think that the same thing is going to be true for crypto. And my take on Web 3 is I'm I'm in this for the next, you

know, 10 plus years, no matter what. Because just starting a company, you're going to be in it for at least 10 years. But I think that there's so much more than need to be done on a. You know, technology level in terms of. Specifications that need to be written. There's so much that needs to be done on a regulatory basis to make sure that this thrives

and you know, I'm a. I'm an American heart in the sense that I want to see America succeed. And I actually think that if we regulate crypto too much, it's going to go somewhere else and succeed. And that's going to be bad for the US. And so that's always one of the things I'm thinking about from a regulatory standpoint. And it's also an opportunity for us

to be a juggernaut and for this to be, you know, to power up. Or the next big cycle, just like when the internet came along in the late 90s, they could have legislated or regulated that to death and they didn't. And from it, you know, so many companies and so much wealth was created and ultimately it was better off for the US. And so. Yeah, I

mean, I think, you know, again, I clearly I can go on a ramp. So. Hey, man, I'm not stopping you. And. And so you brought up, you brought up. How with economics and America doesn't keep up. So we have China that's trying to try to compete with us. And. It's China's communism and communism just doesn't work. So if if we take the back, if the United

States takes the back door, then. That opens up the door for China to maybe manipulate people and get the edge on us. And what they, it's not truly what they want. Is to get one over on us. But I think we should definitely have patriotism and keep the ball rolling and knowing where the future is going with technology. Because China, they. Yeah. I mean, China's an

interesting one. I mean, it's, it's, it is technically communist. But I'd argue that it's an autocracy now. The way that. They've basically United States, her he structure. you know, opening up manufacturing and and all the things that they've, they've allowed the West to do. But then they've limited things in terms of of you know how you know our internet companies can operate there. They have to

have access to things. And we're starting to see a shift away from a manufacturer. We're at a manufacturing standpoint as well because I think people are seeing probably a little too late that the dominance for someone like like China and you know that it's such a it's such a tricky beast because it's a balancing acts. We're actually better when we're sort of competing economically, I think

that's healthier because it means we're less likely to compete on the battlefield. And so these are all good things, because the last thing we want is another massive war. We have a war happening in Ukraine that's created so much uncertainty, already globally, and everyone thought Russia was this mega-lemic, esJenna and help us get to the country and so it could be their kind of a difficult

family to provide dreams with as well. I had a really huge audience, that I only shared a particular video about what possibly motivated them to use to help them. It was not about being so open-minded but also about having to have such genetics globally. Everyone thought that Russia was this mega-jugger knot in terms of conventional war power, and it's turning out that they're not, but where

they're wreaking havoc is both digitally and with their natural resources the way that they are pulling the plug on natural gas and oil to the EU. Anyways, these are all things that are much bigger than just tanks, planes, and aircraft carriers, which is kind of what the US is still doing. And so it's interesting to watch, and we'll just, we'll kind of have to see where

this whole thing goes, but it's, you know, let's be honest, it's never a dull moment out here. So I was in Washington, D.C. in the spring, and I got a chance to meet with the United Nations Ambassador Dino. I don't know if you heard of him. So when I was talking to him, I asked him, I was like, do you think blockchain technology can bring world

peace? And to make it to simplify it, because he gave a valid explanation. And in short terms, he said, yes, it will. So what are your thoughts about blockchain bringing world peace? And putting it in the end, in the war? Yeah, I mean, that's a tricky. I think it would be a secondary effect if anything. I mean, the reality is we went through Web 1, which

was a very US, you know, sort of West Coast, US centric bubble that, you know, grew and then burst in 2001. We went through a similar thing with Web 2 in sort of 2008, 2009, 2010, although sort of there was an exclamation point there around the housing crisis, which took the winds out of a lot of people's sales. But that was mostly domestic US, Europe, and

a little bit of Asia. And now with Web 3, what you're seeing is we're 30 years on since sort of the rise of the internet. You have a whole generation that don't only been raised on not only the internet, but also touch devices, you know, connected devices, super computers that are in your pocket everywhere you go. And we're still dealing with some archaic systems around healthcare.

And then, you know, most importantly, finance. And so a lot of the incumbents, the existing players that whether they're, you know, cell phone providers, I shouldn't say cell phone providers, telecom carriers and other folks are trying to sort of push their models down to these emerging markets. When they're kind of broken, right, doing a traditional bank in, you know, Africa somewhere, it doesn't make a lot

of sense. You need something you need to leverage the existing tools, mobile, potentially crypto. So that you're, you can eliminate some of the, the griff that is happening in these things. And so I think that if you have a connected planet that can easily, you know, transfer wealth between each other and transact without a lot of barriers, whether it's regulatory or taxation or others, I think

that's ultimately good. But it may not be really great for sort of the ruling class because those folks don't tend to want to see things change. So I'm hoping that you can see that. So I think that's really helpful. I actually feel really good about it. I do believe that a sort of a Web 3 company will be the first one to have a $10 trillion

market cap. It'll be in the next 10 years. We don't know what it is. It's likely being founded right now. And to me, that's, that's super, super exciting. But now you have an entire planet that's connected that is now, you know, understands how this technology works. It's pervasive. You know, it's an exciting time. Even if, you know, it's a lot of things that are happening. It's

full of uncertainty, but even going back 20 years, we've always had uncertainty during these times. And it's when you kind of, you know, roll up your sleeves and dig in to things during these downturns that you can create some really, really, really compelling value. So. Okay. Now I'm glad you brought that up because with what is the scalability and locality of your company? Like are you

guys just. Based here in the United States, are you trying to brand? Shout into other countries, especially third world countries and giving those a fighting chance to succeed in life. Yeah, I mean, we'll, I'm a fan of, you know, launch quickly, learn as quickly as we can from our customers. And then, you know, iterate on that. And so we've been focused on doing that sort of

a crawl walk run kind of a thing. And today we're definitely, you know, our companies global in the sense that the teams all over the place. We don't have a headquarters we never will. We are a US company. But. And right now we're sort of proving this model out with some partners here in the US. But ultimately, I see this as a unique opportunity to create

a global organization that will allow anyone to basically participate in, you know, sort of investing or enjoying the benefits of these alternative assets in ways that they couldn't before. Because we didn't have the technology to do it. And so that to me is empowering because so much of. You know, here in the US, it's very much about, you know, the wealthy. Continue to get wealthier because

there becomes it becomes harder and harder for people to even participate. You know, technically, if you want to invest in the stock market, you have to be an accredited investor, which means you have to have at least $300,000 worth of net worth, which not a lot of people do right. It's something like 3.5% of the US. And claim that and therefore that locks out a whole

bunch of people, let alone globally. And so I understand that you lock those folks out because. Being an accredited investor is important because you don't want scammers and things like that, I get it. But there are ways for us to now, whether through training or a creedation, you know, those kinds of things to be able to do that for, you know, the quote unquote less sophisticated

investors, which really means they have a lower balance, but why can't they participate in something right. And so that's what gets me sort of excited about about, you know, what's what's coming up next and what we're building, right. We know that we've been lucky enough to be able to bootstrap this with our early customers. And we'll continue to do that as long as we can. I've

raised a lot of venture capital. I'm a huge fan of the VC model. I think it actually works, especially because, you know, if you find the right investors, everybody's checked cash is it's what they bring to the table after the fact, whether it's through connections, partners, you know, you name it. And so yeah, so that's that's kind of how we're thinking about, you know, growth and

where we're headed right now. What's the hardest thing that, what's the hardest thing that jump has faced and how were you able to encourage your team to to stay on the path. You know, we're so new that we haven't had any really big curve balls. I mean, other than you know, this sort of this FTX thing that's happened and, you know, the bonus for us is

we've all the team that we've pulled together have worked together anywhere from, you know, five to 12 years together. Like, you know, all of us have have been in it in it. Other companies together. And so we kind of know how this works. That there is uncertainty that we're not sure that we may be building something today that's going to completely change tomorrow. And it affects

how you build what you're building because it's one thing to build towards a specific goal. It's another to be building towards a general direction. And the general direction, we know there's components that we're going to need so we can build those. And even if the vision shifts by 10 or 15 degrees, guess what, all those components still work together. And that, to me, it takes a

slightly different, you know, type of sort of product and engineering team. And it's, you know, we've been really really lucky in the sense that we've all we've all seen this before. And then I try to do the best I can to not kind of whiplash the team. And in terms of oh shit, we're going over here this weekend. No, no, we're going to go over here

now. You know, it's it's sort of that lieutenant Dan. Wave of what is it? Trim fishing. That's my old, that's my fourth gump joke. But anyways. Yeah, so I try to avoid that. And so we, you know, we've been pretty lucky in that sense. And then I think that the trickiest bit for us. And so we've been trying to bake into our organization. How we can

sort of manifest that. And it's tricky. Like we're learning as we go here, but so far it's it's been good. So yeah. Now it was going on your website. And we're going to be kind of like a little bit more. We got a little bit of a bit of a little bit more. And I think the way we were doing this is a little bit more.

And it said that you guys are hiring. So what kind of what kind of prospects are you looking for? Yeah. So right now we're looking for either a full stack developers. I'm a fan at this stage. You know, we're 12 people right now. And I'm a fan of kind of what I call utility infielders. And by that, I mean folks who can wear a couple of

different hats because we're such a, you know, a small company that you have to be able to kind of shift. But then we also have a new team for sort of a full time front end and then a full time back ends. And then we actually have a bunch of initiatives that are coming up here in 2023. I'm going to have to hire a full domestic

team that's going to be managing assets, which is great. It's a different beast for us. But it's going to be very, very interesting. So we're definitely growing and growing very, very quickly. But it's good. Yeah, especially right now it's really crazy. So. Hey, there you go, man. I see big plans in your future for sure. Your fingers crossed. Yeah, for sure. So as we come to

a close is what's next for what's next for jump and what are your plans? What events are you going to be attending? What's going to come out if you can share that. Yeah. So we, I mean, we have a couple, we have a couple things I'm really excited about sharing in the in the new year. I'm happy to come back on and talk you through what

we're doing. Just because I think it's really, really cool. Because in addition to, you know, the crypto components and the technology around that. There's also a bunch of legwork that we've done on the legal side to make sure that we're we're compliant. So so much of Web 3 is sort of a ready fire aim kind of mentality, which is OK. I mean, that's that's what you

have to do in the early early phases of this stuff. But when it comes to physical assets and people who hold generation of wealth, the concept of taking those assets and putting them, you know, essentially at risk by putting them on the blockchain. That's a little scary. And so we've built some some legal components that allow us to do this with much more predictability, which I'm

actually really excited about. It's very, I mean, I don't want to say boring, but it is, you know, the legal heavy lifting that that a company has to do that I think is is really interesting. You know, because we're solving for some problems that I think is really interesting. I think are are pretty damn tricky. But and then I'm headed to myself on a couple folks

from the team are headed to Miami. Not this coming week, but obviously the next week. We'll be there for about a week for our basil for. Decentral for. There's a metaverse. There's a bunch of events. And so we've got a whole bunch of partner meetings lined up and just generally, you know, I'm I'm going to more take the pulse of the crypto community. And I'm going

to get large to get a sense for how they're digesting this whole FTX fiasco. And just kind of read a little bit of the read the tea leaves or, you know, how are we going to frame that. Because I do think it's really important to do that. And you know, one of the reasons that I really doubled down on this space was I went to eat

Denver back in February. We're literally, you know, like, okay, this is what we want to do. I went to that event and it just was really clear to me that there's so much passion and so much happening. In so many different places. And it, you know, FTX wasn't there. None of these big, big, big, quote unquote, big players were there was the builders, the people making

interesting compelling things that are going to change the world in their own way. That tells me that there's this is unstoppable. It's happening. And so hoping to connect with some folks in Miami around that for sure. And if folks, you know, folks want to reach out on Twitter and that's the easiest way to find me for sure. I'll put the links down below. Yeah. That'd be

great. And hey, I'll be a decent to too. So hopefully we'll be able to meet up to get some coffee or grab a beer. Absolutely. Yeah. And, yeah, man. And also, I hope to hear another TEDx talk from you about blockchain technology. So if you guys have been almost 10 years since I did a TEDx, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's something there for sure.

I almost could redo the one that I did before because I think it's a really applicable sort of open source to me. Web three is sort of the open source of this generation. So we'll just have we'll have to see. Yeah. All right, man. And I know the legal stuff is very tedious, but you can do it, man. Awesome. Take it easy, bro. Hope you have

a good day. For sure. So proud. Bye. Did you know that podcasts are a great way to grow your personal and business brand voice? Here's a street crit. We all want to feel connected to brands we buy from. What a better way to humanize a brand than through sharing your story on a podcast. Kidcaster is a podcast booking agency that specializes in developing real human connection

through podcast appearances. If you are an expert in your podcast, you can go to the website and you can find a link to the website. You can find your field, have a unique story to share, or an interesting point of view is time to explore the world of podcasting with Kitcaster. You can expect a completely customized service from our staff of communication experts. Kidcaster is your

secret weapon and podcasting for business. Your audience is waiting to hear from you. Go to Kitcaster.com slash crypto kid to apply your special offer for friends of this podcast. The link will also be in the description down below. And happy podcasting.