Hear what ex-CIA director thinks Putin must do after rebellion

THE REVOLT IN RUSSIA OVER THE WEEKEND. "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" IS NOW REPORTING THAT WAGNER CHIEF YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN HAD ORIGINALLY INTENDED TO CAPTURE TWO OF PUTIN'S TOP MILITARY LEADERS AS PART OF HIS MARCH ON MOSCOW AND WHEN INTELLIGENCE AGENTS DISCOVERED THE PLOT PRIGOZHIN WAS FORCED TO MOVE UP HIS TIME LINE. JOINING US WITH MORE ON THE REAL IMPACT OF ALL OF THIS, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR AND

CENTCOM COMMANDER GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. IF THESE DETAILS CHECK OUT THAT PRIGOZHIN PLANNED TO KIDNAP TWO MILITARY LEADERS AS PART OF HIS REBELLION AND ALSO WHAT "THE NEW YORK TIMES" IS REPORTING THAT A TOP RUSSIAN COMMANDER KNEW OF PRIGOZHIN'S PLAN AHEAD OF TIME, WHAT THEN DO YOU MAKE OF PUTIN ALLOWING YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN TO ESCAPE TO EXILE IN BELARUS? DOES IT ADD UP?

>> WELL, KEEP IN MIND THAT THE WAGNER GROUP IS STILL A VERY USEFUL TOOL IN THE FOREIGN POLICY ARSENAL OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION. IN FACT, THE FOREIGN MINISTER CAME OUT YESTERDAY AND SAID IT WOULD STILL BE ACTIVE IN MALI AND THE CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC AND ELSEWHERE IN THE AFRICAN REPUBLIC AND SYRIA AND SO FORTH. IT HAS BEEN VERY HELPFUL TO THE RUSSIAN CAUSE IN THOSE AREAS

AND THEY DON'T HAVE A REPLACEMENT FOR THAT YET. IT IS ALSO LARGELY SELF-FINANCING ABROAD. WE KNOW NOW THAT SOME OF THE FINANCING FOR THE ACTIONS IN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE WERE COMING FROM THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION, BUT THE WHOLE AFFAIR IS JUST NOTHING SHORT OF FANTASTIC. IT REVEALS HOW DESPERATE PRIGOZHIN HAD TO FEEL. HIS CONTRACTS WERE CUT OFF AND THAT HIS SOLDIERS WOULD HAVE TO SIGN CONTRACTS WITH

THE MINISTRY OF DEFENSE AND HE WAS GOING TO LOSE HIS ARMY AND HIS RUSSIAN SOURCE OF REVENUE AND HE WAS SO DESPERATE THAT HE WOULD LAUNCH THIS FANTASTICAL EXPEDITION TO KIDNAP THE MINISTER OF DEFENSE AND THE CHIEF OF THE GENERAL STAFF WHOM HE'D BEEN CRITICIZING, OF COURSE, PUBLICLY FOR MANY MONTHS AND THEN RIGHT BEFORE THAT, OF COURSE, HE ALSO CRITICIZED THE OVERALL DECISION TO INVADE UKRAINE

AND THEN THE WAY IN WHICH THE WAR WAS BEING CONDUCTED. SO REALLY AN EXTRAORDINARY MOMENT AND THEN PUTIN, OF COURSE, DISAPPEARS AND HE WAS AWOL IN THE DAY OF THIS OPERATION. HE TOOK THE RIDE, UNLIKE PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AT THE START OF THE WAR, THIS LAST INVASION AND HE HAS TO NOW REASSERT HIMSELF. HE'S GOT TO SHOW THAT HE'S STILL FIRMLY IN CHARGE. HE DOES ALLOW PRIGOZHIN

AGAIN TO GO TO PRESIDENT LUKASHENKO IN BELARUS WHERE AGAIN YOU'LL SORT OUT, BUT HE HAS AN INVESTIGATION LAUNCH AGAINST PRIGOZHIN PERHAPS AS LEVERAGE IF HE NEEDS IT AT SOME POINT IN TIME AND THERE IS AN EXTRADITION TREATY WITH BELARUS. SO AGAIN, WE'LL SEE HOW PUTIN IS ABLE TO RE-ESTABLISH HIMSELF NOW, BUT IN THE MEANTIME, THIS WEAKENS THE RUSSIAN FORCES ON THE BATTLEFIELD AT A TIME WHEN

IT APPEARS THAT UKRAINE IS STARTING TO GROUND OUT SOME GAINS AND STILL IN THE EARLY DAYS AND WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHERE THE MAIN EFFORT IS GOING TO BE. I WANT TO ASK YOU ON THOSE FRONTS, THE THING THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN PRIGOZHIN IN BELARUS, DOES THAT MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU? >> NO, I THINK HE'S PROBABLY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS HIS POSTURE GOING TO

BE GOING FORWARD? IS HE GOING TO START CRITICIZING THE MINISTER OF DEFENSE AND THE CHIEF OF THE GENERAL STAFF. I SUSPECT NOT FOR A WHILE, AT LEAST. I THINK HE REALIZES HOW CLOSE HE CAME TO AGAIN ENDING UP, YOU KNOW, POKED BY AN UMBRELLA OR FALLING OUT OF A WINDOW AND HE STILL NEEDS TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT BOTH OF THOSE, SO -- AND I'M SURE THAT

LUKASHENKO HAS HIM A BIT UNDER WRAPS AS WELL AND PART OF THE DEAL WAS YOU KEEP THIS GUY QUIET AND KEEP HIM UNDER CONTROL AND WE'LL SORT OUT WHAT THE FUTURE IS, KEEPING IN MIND AGAIN THAT THE WAGNER GROUP ABROAD IS A USEFUL TOOL FOR RUSSIAN FOREIGN POLICY. >> I WAS JUST HANDED THIS BECAUSE WE HAVE NEW REPORTING COMING IN KIND OF GETTING TO WHAT WAS

GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES, GENERAL, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT. A EUROPEAN INTELLIGENCE SAYS THERE WERE HINTS THAT RUSSIAN SECURITY SERVICES MIGHT HAVE HAD NOTICE OF THE REBELLION THIS WEEKEND AND KEY TO THIS, OF WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT OFF THE TOP, MIGHT HAVE WANTED IT TO SUCCEED. I'M KIND OF CURIOUS, WHEN YOU HEAR THAT WHAT PUTIN SHOULD DO NOW? DOES ANOTHER MILITARY SHAKE-UP AMONGST

THE RANKS UNDER PUTIN SEEM LIKE THAT COULD BE IN THE OFFING RIGHT NOW? >> WELL, I DON'T THINK HE WANTS TO DO THIS IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE IT WILL DO WHAT PRIGOZHIN HAD RECOMMENDED BE DONE WHICH WAS TO FIRE THE MINISTER AND FIRE THE CHIEF OF THE GENERAL STAFF. SO I DON'T THINK HE WANTS TO DO THIS IN THE SHORT TERM BECAUSE IT WOULD SEEM TO RESPOND TO

WHAT PRIGOZHIN WAS -- WAS COUNSELING, BUT LOOK, NO. HE'S A STUDENT HISTORY. HE KNOWS THAT HISTORY IS UNKIND TO RUSSIAN LEADERS WHO LOSE WARS. HE'S GOT TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO STABILIZE THE FRONT LINES IN THE FACE OF THIS MOUNTING SUMMER OFFENSIVE BY THE UKRAINIAN FORCES THAT HAVE ADDITIONAL TRAINING AND ALL KINDS OF OTHER COMBAT SUPPORT AND SERVICE SUPPORT ELEMENTS. SO THAT'S REALLY GOT

TO BE HIS FOCUS. HOW DOES HE AVOID LOSING THIS WAR NOTING THAT THE LEADERS WHO LOST THE RUSO-JAPANESE WAR IN WORLD WAR I DID NOT STICK AROUND AFTER THAT. THERE MAY BE PEOPLE AROUND THE SECURITY SERVICES AND INTELLIGENCE SERVICES WHO ARE STARTING TO THINK, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE SHOULD CONSIDER WHAT MIGHT COME AFTER PUTIN. >> SOMETHING, A THOUGHT THAT -- HE'S BEEN, WHAT? HIS GRIP ON

POWER HAS BEEN 23 YEARS. A THOUGHT THAT PROBABLY HAS NOT CROSSED THE MINDS OF MANY AMONGST HIS RANKS FOR A VERY LONG TIME IF AT ALL. YOU WERE IN UKRAINE LAST MONTH AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT SAID ABOUT THE COUNTEROFFENSIVE UNDER WAY IN UKRAINE SO FAR. DO YOU HAVE CON FIDENCE IN THE UKRAINIAN COUNTEROFFENSIVE? >> I AM CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC THAT THE UKRAINIAN FORCES ARE GOING TO

DO WHAT NO FORCE ON EITHER SIDE HAS DONE SO FAR WHICH IS TO PUT IT ALL TOGETHER. TANKS, INFANTRY, ARTILLERY, ENGINEERS, AIR DEFENSE, DRONES, GOOD COMMAND AND CONTROL AND FOLLOW-ON FORCES RIGHT UP BEHIND THE LEAD ELEMENTS SO THAT WHEN THEY CULMINATE AFTER 72 OR 96 HOURS AS IS TYPICALLY THE CASE IN TOUGH FIGHTING, YOU CAN MAINTAIN THE MOMENTUM AND THEY CAN CRACK THE RUSSIAN LINES. WE

JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT WILL BE AND I'M NOT SURE THE UKRAINIANS DO BECAUSE IN PROBING ATTACKS AND RECONNAISSANCE IN FORCE ACROSS THE 600-MILE FRONT. THINK OF THE DISTANCES HERE AND HOW TOUGH IT IS TO PUT FORCES IN POSITION, SET THE CONDITIONS AS THEY SAY FOR THE MAIN EFFORT TO BE LAUNCHED, AND SO IT'S HARD TO SAY WHEN THAT WILL COME. WE KNOW IT'S VERY TOUGH.

AGAIN, MULTIPLE BELTS OF MINEFIELDS, OBSTACLES, TRENCHES, DEFENSE IN DEPTH AND SO FORTH, AND THE RUSSIANS ARE DOING THIS PHASE FAIRLY COMPETENTLY, BUT I DO THINK AT SOME POINT IN TIME THE UKRAINIANS WILL BREAK THROUGH AND HOPEFULLY THE MORALE OF THE RUSSIANS HAS BEEN DAMAGED A BIT BY THIS WHOLE EPISODE, AS WELL BECAUSE PRIGOZHIN HAS SAID WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE THINKING THAT THIS IS NOT

GOING WELL. IT WAS PROBABLY A MISTAKE AND YOU KNOW, WHO WANTS TO BE THE ONE THAT'S THE LAST TO DIE FOR THIS WAR THAT IS NOT GOING WELL? THE UKRAINIANS KNOW WHAT THEY'RE FIGHTING FOR. THIS IS THEIR WAR OF INDEPENDENCE AND THE RUSSIANS ARE MUCH LESS CERTAIN ABOUT THAT. >> GENERAL DAV